Zombies: Do they have souls?

[JSPoole]

So...where do you stand. Do zombies have souls? Or are they souless? Or do you not even believe in the concept of souls?

I have thought about this often. I would say I am somewhat spiritual, though have no real religion that I follow. And I do believe in the soul, in some sense. And this led me thinking to my favourite topic: zombies. And the soulessness (or not) of them.

Do you think zombies have souls, or any awareness, but can't do anything about it? I imagine sometimes, how horrific it could be if trapped somewhere in the recesses of the zombie mind, some shred of conciousness remains, horrified and trapped, unable to control the hunger, or their own body, as they hunt down and devour their own loved ones.

Where do you guys stand?

[krakenslayer]

It's a difficult and, dare I say it, almost meaningless question. We could debate for years on whether or not humans have a metaphysical "soul" before we even get into the issue of zombies.

On an interesting side note, however, psychologists and philosophers use the term "zombie" to describe the theoretical concept of an individual who outwardly appears to behave and act like a normal human, but internally lacks conscious experience, and this is used in debates about the existence of the soul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

[JSPoole]

Hmmm I suppose- I'm not saying the human soul does exist, one way or the other. I'm just curious where others come down on this issue- if you believe, do you think zombies may still have a soul? And if you don't believe- well it really is a meaningless question I suppose. Just curious to see different opinions on it.

[MoonSylver]

That's a tough one. It's going to depend on the personal interpretation: what IS the soul? Is it JUST the consciousness? Or something separate?

We see zombies that display some damaged version of consciousness/awareness. So is this the soul, trapped in a damaged rotting shell? Or the echos, the imprints of the departed soul left behind?

Can't easily answer myself, as I can't reconcile which is correct. They're both chilling in their implications IMO, which makes them BOTH fun to think about...;)

[EvilNed]

No, zombies do not have a soul. And nor do I (or any other comrades for that matter!)

[MoonSylver]

No, zombies do not have a soul. And nor do I (or any other comrades for that matter!)

Well...that solves that then...carry on....;):lol:

[Mike70]

No, zombies do not have a soul. And nor do I (or any other comrades for that matter!)

i am with the evil one on this. i am an atheist. i do not believe in god or souls anymore than i believe in the tooth fairy, santa claus or bugganes.

[bassman]

I don't think they would have a soul. Especially with Romero's films. Giving them a soul would just be silly, imho.

They're just "pure motorized instinct". Not even human, so no soul.

[Marie]

I believe I and other humans, and probably other animals have a soul. One of the most horrifying (to me) stories I believe on these pages involved a zombie containing a human soul that was helpless to stop the slaughter his body did. When the zombie was destroied he went to hell, frankly one would almost say that was a relief.

M_

[ProfessorChaos]

souls are fairy-tale material.

mark up another one for the atheists.:p

[MaximusIncredulous]

YES! Zombies have a soul. BUT not the soul they were initially created with. You see, during a reanimation phenomenon, a person dies and their soul is cast down to Hell. A short period of time later, a surrogate or demon if you will, replaces the soul void left in that person after death. This demon, with its singular order to destroy human life in order to provide vessels for their fellow demons, is what animates a corpse upon resurrection, albeit with great difficulty since the body taken over is continuously deteriorating, although the deterioration is slowed thanks to Satan's control of phenomenon.














On second thought, no, zombies do not have a soul.

[Crappingbear]

Going with the religious belief that there is a soul and God then upon death, the soul leaves the body. From there it depends if you believe in purgatory, instant Heaven and Hell or whatever then thats where the soul is disposed but its long gone from the body. Zombies are just re-animated meat from your choice of why whether its radiation, virus, disease, evil or what not. Thus, zombies do not have a soul. They are more like a rabid animal whereby the rabies virus has literally destroyed their brain and they are just aggressive muscle movement.

[krakenslayer]

I think if you equate the idea of a "soul" with consciousness/self-awareness/qualia (whether or not we consider these things to be immortal or metaphysical), then there is evidence in Romero's movies that at least some of the stenches remain in possession of these functions, at least one some level. However, I don't think this at all complicates the moral issue of whether or not it's okay to kill the undead; in fact, if anything it gives us another reason to put them out of their misery/put them to rest.

One thing I would like to highlight is the slipperiness of defining a "zombie" in general terms when answering this sort of question - are we talking about a Romero zombie, a Fulci zombie, a Snyder zombie, a Dan O'Bannon zombie..? Because the answer is probably different depending on which one we're dealing with.

[JSPoole]

I think if you equate the idea of a "soul" with consciousness/self-awareness/qualia (whether or not we consider these things to be immortal or metaphysical), then there is evidence in Romero's movies that at least some of the stenches remain in possession of these functions, at least one some level. However, I don't think this at all complicates the moral issue of whether or not it's okay to kill the undead; in fact, if anything it gives us another reason to put them out of their misery/put them to rest.

One thing I would like to highlight is the slipperiness of defining a "zombie" in general terms when answering this sort of question - are we talking about a Romero zombie, a Fulci zombie, a Snyder zombie, a Dan O'Bannon zombie..? Because the answer is probably different depending on which one we're dealing with.


Oh you are 100% right - that doesn't complicate the moral issue of killing the undead. I just think it makes it an interesting topic to think about , and if the conciousness is somehow a prisoner to the body after zombiefication.

You also make a good point that there are many types of zombies- the infected zombies in 28 days later are not dead, just infected. They actually are the ones that made me wonder, if you want to use the world soul or not, if they have any sort of self awareness or conciousness of their actions but are unable to act on them, or if they have nothing but rage and violence with nothing at all of the person left behind in the body.

[Wyldwraith]

My belief(s):
28 Days/28 Weeks Later infected are still in possession of their souls (and yes, I define a soul as the eternal quintessential essence of what makes a self-aware being the individual he/she/it is, as well as being the expressing force of that uniqueness)

So, the rage-virus infected of 28 Days/Weeks would still have their souls. There's no difference in this case between them and someone suffering from advanced rabies or a trauma-induced psychotic break. Brain damage is preventing any outward expression of the soul's influence, rendering it little more than a prisoner screaming for release from the horrific flesh-prison it's become trapped within.

True Romero Zombies on the other hand, are devoid of souls IMO. At the moment of physical death the unquantified energy matrix that the metaphysically-termed "soul" is composed of has its ties to the flesh severed, allowing it to flee the body. I believe it is this process that provides the clear lines of demarcation between death and reanimation. Otherwise it would make just as much sense for every infected person who perishes to reanimate instantaneously. The rudimentary expression(s) of personality or memory that this sort of zombie sometimes demonstrates are a function of sporadic brain activity.

Personally, I believe Romero-zombies are viral in nature, and that said virus is reactivating/maintaining isolated areas of the brain to aid in propagating itself through transmission to other hosts. No chemical process is perfect however, so sometimes the memory center gets a jolt meant for the area of the brain that interprets incoming sensory-stimuli. Big Daddy-like zombies can be explained by a strain of the virus naturally selecting for relevant memory-center activation. More simply, viruses evolve to increase ease of transmission. There are plenty of example of viruses in nature altering the behavior of the host organism for its own benefit.

It is conceivable IMO that enough of the dead brain could be reactivated for the soulless zombie to comprehend rationally the state it was currently in. Such an abomination would be pitiable indeed. The old voodoo folklore deals in detail with the notion of zombies realizing they're dead and suffering mentally because of it. Which is the impetus behind the enraged attacks upon the Bokor who reanimated them if the black-magic practitioner's control slips.

All of this danced around the issue you're driving at though, so I'll state my opinion and be done with it. The mind may be the physical seat of consciousness/self-awareness, but IMO it is only a physical construct to house the eternal essence that makes a human being a human being.

Just my *belief*

[sgrosse]

Been a while since i last posted on this forum. But I liked this question. As to the question of whether or not Zombie's have a soul I would have to say that in my opinion, no. If there is a soul, it probably does not have anything to do with your memory or your experiences. Your soul, again in my opinion, just is. It is something that is apart of all living things that has yet to be fully understood or explained.

A zombie is devoid of all things. An empty vessal only driven by the need to eat(following Romeros rules here). All though they might show some signs of remembering things from there past life it is nothing more than an undamaged part of there brain kicking back to life for a short period of time. Zombies are not alive. If they are not alive, whatever it is that releases the soul kicks in upon death. The body reanimates a few minutes later as a walking corpse.

Again this is all just in my opinion. Good evening to yall.

[JSPoole]

My belief(s):
28 Days/28 Weeks Later infected are still in possession of their souls (and yes, I define a soul as the eternal quintessential essence of what makes a self-aware being the individual he/she/it is, as well as being the expressing force of that uniqueness)

So, the rage-virus infected of 28 Days/Weeks would still have their souls. There's no difference in this case between them and someone suffering from advanced rabies or a trauma-induced psychotic break. Brain damage is preventing any outward expression of the soul's influence, rendering it little more than a prisoner screaming for release from the horrific flesh-prison it's become trapped within.

True Romero Zombies on the other hand, are devoid of souls IMO. At the moment of physical death the unquantified energy matrix that the metaphysically-termed "soul" is composed of has its ties to the flesh severed, allowing it to flee the body. I believe it is this process that provides the clear lines of demarcation between death and reanimation. Otherwise it would make just as much sense for every infected person who perishes to reanimate instantaneously. The rudimentary expression(s) of personality or memory that this sort of zombie sometimes demonstrates are a function of sporadic brain activity.

Personally, I believe Romero-zombies are viral in nature, and that said virus is reactivating/maintaining isolated areas of the brain to aid in propagating itself through transmission to other hosts. No chemical process is perfect however, so sometimes the memory center gets a jolt meant for the area of the brain that interprets incoming sensory-stimuli. Big Daddy-like zombies can be explained by a strain of the virus naturally selecting for relevant memory-center activation. More simply, viruses evolve to increase ease of transmission. There are plenty of example of viruses in nature altering the behavior of the host organism for its own benefit.

It is conceivable IMO that enough of the dead brain could be reactivated for the soulless zombie to comprehend rationally the state it was currently in. Such an abomination would be pitiable indeed. The old voodoo folklore deals in detail with the notion of zombies realizing they're dead and suffering mentally because of it. Which is the impetus behind the enraged attacks upon the Bokor who reanimated them if the black-magic practitioner's control slips.

All of this danced around the issue you're driving at though, so I'll state my opinion and be done with it. The mind may be the physical seat of consciousness/self-awareness, but IMO it is only a physical construct to house the eternal essence that makes a human being a human being.

Just my *belief*

Great post :)


Been a while since i last posted on this forum. But I liked this question. As to the question of whether or not Zombie's have a soul I would have to say that in my opinion, no. If there is a soul, it probably does not have anything to do with your memory or your experiences. Your soul, again in my opinion, just is. It is something that is apart of all living things that has yet to be fully understood or explained.

A zombie is devoid of all things. An empty vessal only driven by the need to eat(following Romeros rules here). All though they might show some signs of remembering things from there past life it is nothing more than an undamaged part of there brain kicking back to life for a short period of time. Zombies are not alive. If they are not alive, whatever it is that releases the soul kicks in upon death. The body reanimates a few minutes later as a walking corpse.

Again this is all just in my opinion. Good evening to yall.


Some quality posts in this thread , with this and quite a few previous posts from others, and it does open up several avenues for discussion about zombies and how we see them.