Fatigue and fighting zombies

[Debbieangel]

I got to thinking about how much I need my sleep at night. I can't motivate too well if I have interrupted sleep at night. Can you imagine how it would be trying to get sleep with zombies being around?
Lack of sleep can cause so many mistakes so I have a few questions:
How much sleep do you require at night?
In a zombie situation how would you manage to get a few winks before getting up to fight the zombies again?

I have to get 7 to 8 hours a night to be able to motivate through the day.

[Trencher]

I think that is a big factor in making living people turning on eachohter. Having a bunch of zombies outside moaning and hammering the wall would drive anybody nuts.

[AcesandEights]

Yup, this has always been the thing about zombies, especially in Romero's movies. They never stop and just keep coming.


I think that is a big factor in making living people turning on eachohter. Having a bunch of zombies outside moaning and hammering the wall would drive anybody nuts.

Yeah, exhaustion + preternatural levels of stress = bad day to be human:dead:

[Trin]

I only sleep between 4 and 6 hours a night. If I get short on sleep I can supplement with little naps during the day (like 15 minutes at a time). I can fall asleep literally anywhere.

I think the key would be to isolate yourself someplace completely safe, or with the watchful eyes of other survivors. Dawn and Day both had areas where I think sleep would be possible.

If you read Matheson's I Am Legend (or even the movie) the main thing I wondered was how the man slept. His place was not impregnable. In the book the vampires all stood outside talking to him and taunting him all night long. His house was not a stronghold. The primary defense was crosses and garlic. I just can't imagine being so vulnerable as that and getting sleep. Especially while being completely alone.

[DawnGirl27]

I get around 6 each night, and although not a big napper (unless sick), think that would be easily changed when not getting a lot night after night. Your body would have to adapt, and power naps would be a big part of that. Plus, like Trin said, having a safe place, and/or others in your party that could be look outs, would greatly help.
I know some people would use ear plugs to drown out any noise from the zeds, but for me, I'd rather hear. When I slept (very light sleeper), I'd wake up if something happened, and have a heads up. It'd be too freaky to just have silence, not knowing if zombies are breaking in and coming (regardless of how safe I thought I was or who was watching my back)...

[EvilNed]

I get about 4-6 hours a sleep tonight. I have a really hard time falling asleep, actually and it's very annoying. The conditions have to be just right for me to fall asleep. If it's too hot, you can forget about it. If I'm hungry, it's a no-go. If there's even the slightest ambience I usually have to put music on, otherwise I can't sleep.

So, in other words, I'm fucked.

[Eyebiter]

When your young it's no big deal to run on a few hours of sleep for three or four days then crash out and sleep for 18 to 24 hours to recover. Once you start getting older it's more difficult to operate without a good night's sleep.

[Yojimbo]

When I was younger, I could get by with 2 hours of sleep every night, no problem. Cup of coffee and a good shower and I would be absolutely fine.

Nowdays in my forties, I need at least 5 hours min to be ok, otherwise I walk around all day in a bad, bad mood. I have, however, done whole workshifts recently on less (worst was 2 hours of sleep) and I was able to maintain. Don't really know that I could keep up for more than a few days on such a sleep deficit.

Likely, if it was an emergency situation, you would have a lot of people dosing with sitimulants to keep going (like the Air Force "go-pills") but anything stronger than coffee taken over a period of time makes folks psuchotic, which in and of itself would likely not be a very good thing in a ghoul situation.

This is why I would have to ally myself with other surviviors so that someone can always be on watch while others are sleeping.

[SRP76]

We might be able to get by on fewer than 8 hours per night, right now, in our fat and happy lifestyle.

Not so come outbreak time. When you have to get your dead ass off the couch and start toiling constantly (which you WILL have to do - running/escaping, shoring up your meager defenses, searching for and attempting to acquire food, firing weapons, beating ghouls with a hammer...you name it, you'll be doing it, and it will damn sure be physical), you'll realize that when you burn up 15,000 calories a day, you're going to need to sleep deep and long. Especially since you'll be lucky to find 1,000 calories worth of food to supply this activity. And you also WILL be doing this every single day - zombies don't give a shit if it's Saturday.

[MoonSylver]

And you also WILL be doing this every single day - zombies don't give a shit if it's Saturday.

:lol::lol::lol:

One of the best quotes ever.

[darth los]

:lol::lol::lol:

One of the best quotes ever.

Indeed !! :thumbsup:



We might be able to get by on fewer than 8 hours per night, right now, in our fat and happy lifestyle.

Not so come outbreak time. When you have to get your dead ass off the couch and start toiling constantly (which you WILL have to do - running/escaping, shoring up your meager defenses, searching for and attempting to acquire food, firing weapons, beating ghouls with a hammer...you name it, you'll be doing it, and it will damn sure be physical), you'll realize that when you burn up 15,000 calories a day, you're going to need to sleep deep and long. Especially since you'll be lucky to find 1,000 calories worth of food to supply this activity. And you also WILL be doing this every single day - zombies don't give a shit if it's Saturday.





That's such a good point.


You can also equate it to every day life. I'm positive that, generally, those who have easier jobs or lifestyles require less sleep. Obviously, if someone has an office job, while stressfull, they're not going to be as spent ant the end of the day as someone who works construction for 10+hours. That being the case you're going to require less sleep and recovery time.






:cool:

[SRP76]

There's also the effects of the repeated adrenaline dumps into your system.

Think about the last time you got into a fight. A real one, not slapping your girlfriend around. Someone's punching the shit out of you, you start scrapping, the adrenaline simply starts coursing through your system. It keeps doing it while you're beating on each other. The fight finally ends, you're lucky enough to walk away from it, and get home. Half an hour later, once you've "cooled down", you get that blown-out feeling because the adrenaline feed isn't set to wide-open anymore. You feel about as lively as a bruised turd, and need a nap.

Now, imagine being shocked, having to fight, getting away, and "crashing"...and then having to go through it again... and then again...about 10 times in one day. That's just about what life would be during the outbreak. That WILL wear your whole system out by the end of the day.

[darth los]

There's also the effects of the repeated adrenaline dumps into your system.

Think about the last time you got into a fight. A real one, not slapping your girlfriend around. Someone's punching the shit out of you, you start scrapping, the adrenaline simply starts coursing through your system. It keeps doing it while you're beating on each other. The fight finally ends, you're lucky enough to walk away from it, and get home. Half an hour later, once you've "cooled down", you get that blown-out feeling because the adrenaline feed isn't set to wide-open anymore. You feel about as lively as a bruised turd, and need a nap.

Now, imagine being shocked, having to fight, getting away, and "crashing"...and then having to go through it again... and then again...about 10 times in one day. That's just about what life would be during the outbreak. That WILL wear your whole system out by the end of the day.



You know, people can say whatever they want about how nerdy this all is but it never ceases to amaze me how time and again we take lessons learned from debating a zombie outbreak that could easily be used in "real", everyday life situations.


GOOD JOB!! :thumbsup:


Now try doing that based on a discussion about a level 50 incapacitation spell !! :p







:cool:

[Debbieangel]

There's also the effects of the repeated adrenaline dumps into your system.

Think about the last time you got into a fight. A real one, not slapping your girlfriend around. Someone's punching the shit out of you, you start scrapping, the adrenaline simply starts coursing through your system. It keeps doing it while you're beating on each other. The fight finally ends, you're lucky enough to walk away from it, and get home. Half an hour later, once you've "cooled down", you get that blown-out feeling because the adrenaline feed isn't set to wide-open anymore. You feel about as lively as a bruised turd, and need a nap.

Now, imagine being shocked, having to fight, getting away, and "crashing"...and then having to go through it again... and then again...about 10 times in one day. That's just about what life would be during the outbreak. That WILL wear your whole system out by the end of the day.

Exactly!
You crash and burn constantly your body can't take all that adrenline rush without some good rest.
I was also thinking of people that said before that they would go it alone. I don't see how that would be at all possible? or even two people? One would fall asleep and the other would fall asleep out of the same exhaustion because face it, you both would be fighting at the same time with the zombies.
Can you imagine months of nonstop fighting with the zombies,running and hiding and trying to find food all at the same time?

[darth los]

Exactly!
You crash and burn constantly your body can't take all that adrenline rush without some good rest.
I was also thinking of people that said before that they would go it alone. I don't see how that would be at all possible? or even two people? One would fall asleep and the other would fall asleep out of the same exhaustion because face it, you both would be fighting at the same time with the zombies.
Can you imagine months of nonstop fighting with the zombies,running and hiding and trying to find food all at the same time?


Well, we know for a fact that 4 can do it, don't we? ;)


(For those not in the know, it's a Dawn 78' reference) :moon:






:cool:

[sandrock74]

I think the mall would have been the onlt place I would have felt comfortable enough to actually fall into a deep sleep, out of all the locales of the various films. It had freedom of movement over a large area, readily available supplies, an easy escape route and NO zombies indoors.

I guess if I lived in Kaufmans tower in the Green (I have been there in real life), I could sleep there too. I think thats about it thou.

[Thorn]

I think mental stress and fatigue would claim more people than physical stress and fatigue in the early goings. We are just not conditioned for that, we do not fight for our lives every day, and a lot a lot of us don't work in very mentally demanding jobs.

Look at the increase in cases of PTSD just in the united states with veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan and you can see we simply are incapable right now. I will say that as these things became common place (such as watching loved ones die, rise, then try to eat you, and then be put down possibly by you) that you would numb to it. That does not mean there would not be lasting effects on us as a people. If it went on long enough perhaps our children who would know nothing else would be better equipped to deal with it, but a good many of us would not.

Loss of sleep is common as a result of PTSD and add in environmental factors like the pounding, the moaning, the poor living conditions, lack of food, stress , distrust, and god knows what else and you are going to have a good number of people unraveling at a rapid rate.

I can only hope that A) I would not be one of them and B) I could see it early enough in someone to help them or at least ensure they do not hurt the group I am with. If you look at Romero films there are several cases where the poor mental condition of one person leads to issues for the group.

My question would be what would you do with someone who was clearly mentally fatigued and unraveling before your eyes?

[RustyHicks]

Well, we know for a fact that 4 can do it, don't we? ;)


(For those not in the know, it's a Dawn 78' reference) :moon:






:cool:


Here I thought you were talking about Dawn04 :elol::D

I average 6 hours a night, if I'm lucky but I can't imagine trying to sleep hearing all those zombies pounding on the doors, groaning outside. I think the survivors of Dawn were lucky to be held up in the mall. They could take turns on watch, until they got the mall secured and they had the alarm system on at all times.
But if I was alone, or even just with my wife we probably wouldn't last too long, exhaustion would get to us, and constant stress and worry can also wear you down. Too bad you can't say to the zombie "Times out dude, gotta have a rest, meet you back here in 5 hours":lol::lol:

[sgrosse]

Having served in the military I can say with certantiy that you can go quite a bit without sleep and only need a little sleep to push your self forward. After Sept. 11 they had us up at all hours working and preparing, gearing for war. Its amazing what you can do when you have no choice. So yall dont sell yourself short. If I could do it than I know that most others can to. :)

[Debbieangel]

Having served in the military I can say with certantiy that you can go quite a bit without sleep and only need a little sleep to push your self forward. After Sept. 11 they had us up at all hours working and preparing, gearing for war. Its amazing what you can do when you have no choice. So yall dont sell yourself short. If I could do it than I know that most others can to. :)

I see your point sgrosse but, I do have a question for you. Ok both my kids were and are in the military and I remember their basic training. Ok to my question for you.
In basic training you were "conditioned" for lack of sleep and how to push yourself relentlessly,don't you think us civilians wouldn't do as well because we didn't have the "conditioning" that you went through?
The military breaks you down then they build you up for anything that comes along. So, really you would be on the "ready" already...see what I mean? I hope I am making myself clear in what I am saying?
We everyday folks would slammed right in the middle of the crap with let's say our pants down.

[AcesandEights]

Ok to my question for you.
In basic training you were "conditioned" for lack of sleep and how to push yourself relentlessly,don't you think us civilians wouldn't do as well because we didn't have the "conditioning" that you went through?
The military breaks you down then they build you up for anything that comes along. So, really you would be on the "ready" already...see what I mean? I hope I am making myself clear in what I am saying?
We everyday folks would slammed right in the middle of the crap with let's say our pants down.

Good points, Debbie.

There's also the matter of the general age and fitness level of the people being discussed. And that matter of life and death/ultimate horror of seeing the dead walk, pumping the stress level through the roof and compounding the effects of sleeplessness and waring at the person.

Yes, stress and danger can pump people up for a while,a lot longer than most of us realize, I'd wager, but ultimately everyone must crash.

[Yojimbo]

We everyday folks would slammed right in the middle of the crap with let's say our pants down.


I know that those folks who have gone through millitary training are better prepared, both mentally and physically, to "get it up" so to speak for extended periods on time on a great sleep deficit. Even with those good folks, many of them reach a breaking point or go through some pretty bad trauma after the fact. So if this is the case with our well trained and battle tempered vets, then civilians, I am afraid, would fare much worse.

To paraphrase the wino in LAND: "We'd be f**cked"

[zombieparanoia]

This is why I would have to say that one of my first looting stops would be (after gun store and MEC) a drugstore to pick up as much adderall, ritalin and amphetamines as I can carry. They may be addictive but they'll keep you alert as long as your able to take it.

[Yojimbo]

This is why I would have to say that one of my first looting stops would be (after gun store and MEC) a drugstore to pick up as much adderall, ritalin and amphetamines as I can carry. They may be addictive but they'll keep you alert as long as your able to take it.
Or at least until you tweak out so bad you get reckless and careless or have a seizure, or get paranoid and start hearing voices.

Maybe doing amphetamines might get you by for a while, but I don't know how long someone's physiology or mind could hold up with repeated dosings.

That image of the invincible Tony Montana snorting a pile of coke and then mocking his assassins while they pumped him full of bullets just came to mind! :lol:

[zombieparanoia]

Or at least until you tweak out so bad you get reckless and careless or have a seizure, or get paranoid and start hearing voices.

Maybe doing amphetamines might get you by for a while, but I don't know how long someone's physiology or mind could hold up with repeated dosings.

If it keeps me alive longer I'll take it. Besides, look at methheads, they take among the most powerful amphetamines available regularly and in concentrated form and they live for months and years.

Soldiers in combat zones have long used amphetamines to inrease alertness while on duty.

I'd only want to take it unitl it became clear which way things were heading. Once it hits a tipping point in either direction you can adapt.

[Slain]

I'd rather camp out in the middle of nowhere, and let the zombies grind themselves to pieces in the desert trying to find me, instead of trying to survive jacked up on speed inside a zombie infested city. YMMV

[Crappingbear]

I'd rather camp out in the middle of nowhere, and let the zombies grind themselves to pieces in the desert trying to find me, instead of trying to survive jacked up on speed inside a zombie infested city. YMMV


Yup. I said that years ago on the old board here and still believe it today. I'll glady disappear in the desert southwest of the U.S. from Texas to Utah with no fortifications and feel safer than in a compound in Jersey. Mesquite thorns and cactus make a nice perimetercover.

[Trin]

I'm of a similar mind. I'm a stone's throw from bfe Kansas. If you drove out into the farmland I don't know how they'd find you. And you'd see them coming for miles. In my worst zombie nightmare I cannot imagine enough of them grouping up to form a threat.

So bring on the zombies. I'll be sitting in a cornfield trying to figure out how to make moonshine.

[Yojimbo]

If it keeps me alive longer I'll take it. Besides, look at methheads, they take among the most powerful amphetamines available regularly and in concentrated form and they live for months and years.


If you can call that living, given the way I have seen most serious crystal heads go about their lives and end up looking. But, your point is well taken, and I am sure that meth will at least keep you from falling asleep allowing the ghouls to creep up on you.



Soldiers in combat zones have long used amphetamines to inrease alertness while on duty.

Thgis is very very true. If I am not mistaken I think that one of the axis powers actually invented speed for this purpose during WWII. I do know that the American Forces currently use speed to keep their fighter pilots alert during long missions, so there must be something to this. Imagine that- going mach 5 and trolling for the enemy while tweaking - must be one hell of a rush.


I'm of a similar mind. I'm a stone's throw from bfe Kansas. If you drove out into the farmland I don't know how they'd find you. And you'd see them coming for miles. In my worst zombie nightmare I cannot imagine enough of them grouping up to form a threat.

So bring on the zombies. I'll be sitting in a cornfield trying to figure out how to make moonshine.
Yeah, I'm with crappingbear and trin - rather be in the sticks