Children and the Living Dead

[MagicMoonMonkey]

There was a time when the issue of children and the living dead never even crossed my mind. That was in my golden days when I fended off the wife's demands for a family quite valiantly.
Now 5 years later and 1 kid + another cooking in the preverbial oven for 7 months thus far, I can't indulge in my undead apocalyptic fetish without wondering uneasily about the children during a Romeroesque event as witnessed in his movies. It actually makes me feel unwell when I indulge in a moment, and the anguish sets in because the reality is that I am a father and how would I react if such an unlikely, nay, impossible event was to happen. My little apocalyptic day dreams are forever ruined as a result.

Within the novel WWZ, there resides a chapter where a feral girl recalls the moments when the undead overwhelm the defences of the parental refuge and swarm upon the mothers and children harboured within. The images portrayed during the final pages of that particular chapter really did make me put the book down, and for a few hours thought, never look upon it again. I did however carry on and regard that particular piece of Undead Fiction as nothing short of brilliant.

As what could only be described as the hardcore fanbase of the Romero Undead Universe, I ask you all this...

How does it make you feel during your moments and daydreams when the child element is introduced in to your apocalyptic fantasy?

[sandrock74]

God, I thought you meant that horrible-ass movie from a decade or so back! Ugh!

Actually, I haven't thought much of it one way or the other. Kids would suffer the same as adults, plain and simple. It sucks, but what can you do?

[zombieparanoia]

"Son, you have to shoot them in the head. No, thats the crotch, aim higher."

Whats the big deal? Its just another thing to add on, Don't talk to strangers, don't do drugs and always aim for the head if you're fighting a zombie. Hell, I'll probably teach my kids that anyways.

[Neil]

There was a time when the issue of children and the living dead never even crossed my mind. That was in my golden days when I fended off the wife's demands for a family quite valiantly.
Now 5 years later and 1 kid + another cooking in the preverbial oven for 7 months thus far, I can't indulge in my undead apocalyptic fetish without wondering uneasily about the children during a Romeroesque event as witnessed in his movies. It actually makes me feel unwell when I indulge in a moment, and the anguish sets in because the reality is that I am a father and how would I react if such an unlikely, nay, impossible event was to happen. My little apocalyptic day dreams are forever ruined as a result.

Within the novel WWZ, there resides a chapter where a feral girl recalls the moments when the undead overwhelm the defences of the parental refuge and swarm upon the mothers and children harboured within. The images portrayed during the final pages of that particular chapter really did make me put the book down, and for a few hours thought, never look upon it again. I did however carry on and regard that particular piece of Undead Fiction as nothing short of brilliant.

As what could only be described as the hardcore fanbase of the Romero Undead Universe, I ask you all this...

How does it make you feel during your moments and daydreams when the child element is introduced in to your apocalyptic fantasy?

Yes, I've had scenarios swimming around my dreamy head at times involving my kids... Not pleasant... Stuck in a dead end, just you and one of your kids, knowing the end was going to come to both, and what you'd with those final few moments....

[Crappingbear]

I'd kill them all. Thats pretty much it. They get me or I get them. Nobody hurts animals or kids when I am around so its always the Alamo. If the kids or puppys get hurt it means Im already dead and can't help them. But, in the meantime there is a whole lotta retirement of the opposition going on.

[Neil]

I'd kill them all. Thats pretty much it. They get me or I get them. Nobody hurts animals or kids when I am around so its always the Alamo. If the kids or puppys get hurt it means Im already dead and can't help them. But, in the meantime there is a whole lotta retirement of the opposition going on.

Fair enough - My mind would always wander though to the best end of the child... Quick before I die, or eaten alone after I die... It's a horrible contemplation!

[Thorn]

It is a very hard thing to imagine.

I like the OP never thought about it much until I had a child, kids in the dead movies were more funny to me like the kids in the airport during Dawn. I also read the book WWZ and it was one that strikes a nerve. However I am not one to give up hope easily, I would defend my daughter to the end. I feel you have the added motivation to succeed and that could actually push you to be even better in bad situations. Some without kids might say having a kid around would be a distraction, I do not know. Maybe to an extent but the alternative which is "putting them out of their misery to spare them the horrors of the zombie world" s not REALLY an option. Not for me.

So I would make do, and redouble my efforts to protect us as we made our way through the zombie infested world. I like to think I am a good parent, and a natural survivor. I have no doubt I would find a way to make a go of it and my daughter is bright even at age 7 I know I could count on her to listen to me and that is the key part. In our Romero films so many deaths are brought on by stupidity and people not thinking or listening. I think we would have as good a chance as anyone else in our situation.

It would be horrible though. As a parent you try to shield your child and protect their innocence for as long as possible, you tell them just enough about the world and it's harsh realities to keep them safe but you want to ensure they remain kids. As adults that is a unique and important job we have and I do not take it lightly.

[Neil]

It is a very hard thing to imagine.

I like the OP never thought about it much until I had a child, kids in the dead movies were more funny to me like the kids in the airport during Dawn. I also read the book WWZ and it was one that strikes a nerve. However I am not one to give up hope easily, I would defend my daughter to the end. I feel you have the added motivation to succeed and that could actually push you to be even better in bad situations. Some without kids might say having a kid around would be a distraction, I do not know. Maybe to an extent but the alternative which is "putting them out of their misery to spare them the horrors of the zombie world" s not REALLY an option. Not for me.

So I would make do, and redouble my efforts to protect us as we made our way through the zombie infested world. I like to think I am a good parent, and a natural survivor. I have no doubt I would find a way to make a go of it and my daughter is bright even at age 7 I know I could count on her to listen to me and that is the key part. In our Romero films so many deaths are brought on by stupidity and people not thinking or listening. I think we would have as good a chance as anyone else in our situation.

It would be horrible though. As a parent you try to shield your child and protect their innocence for as long as possible, you tell them just enough about the world and it's harsh realities to keep them safe but you want to ensure they remain kids. As adults that is a unique and important job we have and I do not take it lightly.

I've often thought of children in Romero's universe. You don't see them often.... Infact my fiction contribution 'The Midas Touch' has a couple of kids in it...

[Rancid Carcass]

I don't have any children myself but I do have plenty of nieces and nephews just to complicate matters. Actually my biggest worry would be trying to stop my nephew grabbing a lawnmower and plowing his way through the nearest horde of zombies like he does in Dead Rising - Carjacking and murder is one thing, but games that teach kids that a Megaman costume and a carton of orange juice are going to get you through the zombie apocalyse is just downright irresponsible!

I think the time has come to sit him down and have that little chat about the Zeds and the Bees...

[darth los]

It is a very hard thing to imagine.

I like the OP never thought about it much until I had a child, kids in the dead movies were more funny to me like the kids in the airport during Dawn.



As we all contemplate this issue, it puts in perspective what Peter must have been going through mentally during that scene. True, it was either them or him but he seemed disgusted and heartbroken noe the less.



Dawn has a few profound moments such as that one which is one of the reasons, imo, it's the best zombie film ever. :thumbsup:






:cool:

[Neil]

As we all contemplate this issue, it puts in perspective what Peter must have been going through mentally during that scene. True, it was either them or him but he seemed disgusted and heartbroken noe the less.



Dawn has a few profound moments such as that one which is one of the reasons, imo, it's the best zombie film ever. :thumbsup:






:cool:

It's interesting that we don't see young children being attacked/killed often in zombie films. I suspect it's one of those generally accepted 'we don't really want to go there' rules...

[MagicMoonMonkey]

I'd kill them all. Thats pretty much it. They get me or I get them. Nobody hurts animals or kids when I am around so its always the Alamo. If the kids or puppys get hurt it means Im already dead and can't help them. But, in the meantime there is a whole lotta retirement of the opposition going on.

In no way am I questioning your survival abilities, but what I was trying to convey was the despair inside should you fail to defend them during your apocalyptic fantasy. In WWZ, the defenders of the church - and ultimately those unable to defend themselves, the children within - were made up of police, the fathers of the children inside and other assorted civilians. They failed and the walking dead advanced on their children. The true horror of that chapter was the lengths some mothers went to ensure the children died before the undead got them.
CB, could you do the unthinkable if you knew you were doomed? How do you feel at that thought?



It's interesting that we don't see young children being attacked/killed often in zombie films. I suspect it's one of those generally accepted 'we don't really want to go there' rules...
I honestly wouldn't want to see that in a movie, although it is evident that it would happen in the Romeroverse.
Do you remember the teaser trailer for - Day of the Dead 2? It had the the baby crying and then, well... The crying stopped and we saw the zombie feed. (sometimes I wonder if there was a totally different script and idea for what ultimately transpired to be a poo masquarading as a movie).
I am sure DJ's movie has a scene where the undead are feeding from a pram.
All very horrible images and scenarios.
Every year, something like 73,000,000 babies are born worldwide (56,500,000 people of all ages die annually to those interested). Imagine if we awaken tomorrow in the undead world created by Romero, that would work out at 750,000,000 children under the age of 10 unable to defend themselves, worldwide. Imagine how many of those dependants would be killed by their own parents.
The whole notion of children and the living dead is truelly the most horrific element of our much loved genre, and I wonder if those instances were portrayed on screen would we love this genre as much as we did?

I would also ask you the same question as I posed CB. Could you do the unthinkable to prevent your children suffer at the hands of a goul? Bear in mind, we are all not zombie killing machines and we would undoubtebly succumb to their advance.

[Neil]

In no way am I questioning your survival abilities, but what I was trying to convey was the despair inside should you fail to defend them during your apocalyptic fantasy. In WWZ, the defenders of the church - and ultimately those unable to defend themselves, the children within - were made up of police, the fathers of the children inside and other assorted civilians. They failed and the walking dead advanced on their children. The true horror of that chapter was the lengths some mothers went to ensure the children died before the undead got them.
CB, could you do the unthinkable if you knew you were doomed? How do you feel at that thought?



I honestly wouldn't want to see that in a movie, although it is evident that it would happen in the Romeroverse.
Do you remember the teaser trailer for - Day of the Dead 2? It had the the baby crying and then, well... The crying stopped and we saw the zombie feed. (sometimes I wonder if there was a totally different script and idea for what ultimately transpired to be a poo masquarading as a movie).
I am sure DJ's movie has a scene where the undead are feeding from a pram.
All very horrible images and scenarios.
Every year, something like 73,000,000 babies are born worldwide (56,500,000 people of all ages die annually to those interested). Imagine if we awaken tomorrow in the undead world created by Romero, that would work out at 750,000,000 children under the age of 10 unable to defend themselves, worldwide. Imagine how many of those dependants would be killed by their own parents.
The whole notion of children and the living dead is truelly the most horrific element of our much loved genre, and I wonder if those instances were portrayed on screen would we love this genre as much as we did?

I would also ask you the same question as I posed CB. Could you do the unthinkable to prevent your children suffer at the hands of a goul? Bear in mind, we are all not zombie killing machines and we would undoubtebly succumb to their advance.

Imagine an infant unit (newly borns) in a hospital... In the end there'd either be no one there to staff it, or something worse there instead to 'look after' them :eek:

[Publius]

Fair enough - My mind would always wander though to the best end of the child... Quick before I die, or eaten alone after I die... It's a horrible contemplation!

Reminds me of the ending of the movie version of Stephen King's The Mist. Also (from what I hear) there will be a scene in The Road dealing with similar questions -- the father making sure the son knows how to use the revolver.

[Thorn]

I've often thought of children in Romero's universe. You don't see them often.... Infact my fiction contribution 'The Midas Touch' has a couple of kids in it...

Just read it and it is very well done. Do not want to ruin anything so I will reserve comments for another time..


Imagine an infant unit (newly borns) in a hospital... In the end there'd either be no one there to staff it, or something worse there instead to 'look after' them :eek:

Horrifying thought, and it would make for quite the grisly visual on film.

[Wyldwraith]

Wow,
This is the first thread in a LONG time concerning zombies/the zombie apocalypse that has made me feel the slightest bit uneasy. In my more confident/heartless (depending on how you look at it) moments, I like to think I could treat a child-zombie or an infected child just like I would an adult in either situation. At the end of the day however, I'm forced to admit that unless the child zombie was in mixed-adult zombie company to help galvanize me to act that I would hesitate. I long ago made up my mind about the infected child issue. You do your best to make it painless and over before the poor little thing knows what hit them, and then you wrestle with whether or not just to put your gun in your mouth afterwards.

Morally I feel it would be the height of cowardice to pass the buck and let a child in my care die and transition to the undead while I cleared the area, just so I could avoid the emotional scars and horrible burnt-in mental imagery of killing a child. Failing to do so could very well mean I'm indirectly murdering a former parent who has somehow found the strength to struggle on despite the death(s) of their own child/children, who couldn't bring themselves to put down a zombie child even to save themselves. As a non-parent but the oldest child of a VERY large interconnected/extended family, I'm used to taking responsibility for the kids/younger adults/teens. If one of them was infected and their parent(s) were also present I'd suck it up and volunteer for the duty to spare them. Most of the parents in my family would go into denial and refuse to recognize what would need to be done though, and huge problems would result from that.

I think that the absence of children being eaten in zombie movies is part of the general "Geneva Convention of Horror Films". If you think about it you don't see many slasher-movie villains like Jason or Freddie taking out small children either, they go for teens instead. Somehow the grisly death of teens fails to shock and horrify in the way that the murder of tiny innocents does. Perhaps because teens (especially those nearing their majority) aren't innocent anymore....especially not in modern society.

In a world where your average 12yr old knows more about sex, the advanced mechanics of it, alternative lifestyles and all the other details than our grandparents did ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHTS, and where we have 14yr old cheerleaders making runs at all their male teachers to try and get their grades bumped up, innocence isn't associated with adolescents anymore...except maybe by the parents of those children. Denial can, in some rare and exceptional instances, be a beautiful thing.

So, non-innocents/perceived non-innocents are fair game for the worst atrocities that screenwriters can dream up, but there's still something of a taboo surrounding the death of the innocent.

Probably because when being entertained the vast majority of us DON'T WANT TO BE REMINDED THAT IT'S HAPPENING FOR REAL EVERY DAY. You can't turn on the news anymore and go a week without an Amber Alert where the "authorities fear the worst", crime scene-side news clips informing us of the details of what some monster did to a defenseless child, or flip channels without skidding past half a dozen criminal investigation-dramas that on any given day do their best to horrify or benumb us as much as the news.

It's absolutely surreal, but in a lot of ways the most graphic of horror movies are still a sort of haven from the real horrors happening every day. The teenaged babysitter neglecting her duties to the innocent in her charge gets killed by the masked murderer, who most often simply stalks ominously past the crib/playpen/bed of the child, before exiting the house. Two horny adolescents who slip away from the party being held at the home of out of town parents are fair-game, but the equally exposed six year old asleep in his/her room with the window open isn't.

Apologies for getting a bit off-topic. Will wrap up by saying that I think Thorn might be onto something. I've seen parents tap wells of strength and endurance for the sake of their children that they never could have for themselves. Besides, if the children don't make it the zombies win by default anyways. Right?

[Debbieangel]

I have been writing an ongoing zombie story coming from my pov and I have a granddaughter and I cannot even in writing do anything but keep her safe. In my story I have her in the attic where the zombies can't get to her.
I have often wondered how would you keep the little ones safe in an acopalypitic zombie world?
I can see why GAR and others really havent dealt with children in their zombie movies.
Come to think of it look at NIGHT, Cooper's daughter was infected/died/came back. Ofcourse back then they didn't deal with the whole "you get bitten, you die" scenario. They were in the dark about getting bitten and the infection killing you and you coming back again.
If NIGHT were a new zombie movie out in present time and GAR did it in same way what do you suppose they would have done to Cooper's daughter now?

[Neil]

Come to think of it look at NIGHT, Cooper's daughter was infected/died/came back.
Plus she looked like she was almost a teenager, rather than a far younger and more vulnerable child (eg: 1-8).

[wayzim]

I've often thought of children in Romero's universe. You don't see them often.... Infact my fiction contribution 'The Midas Touch' has a couple of kids in it...

And two prominent heros from my DeadFall series were teens, both traumatized by the death of childhood sweethearts, parents and guardians. Like real world child survivors of war or great disasters, sometimes they emerge surprisingly well, othertimes ...

It's like this scene from Stephen King's Salem's Lot (Book, not movie)where the young boy is in the hospital after Susan is taken by Barlow. As Ben Mears explains it, some kids take as truth things which would sent most adults to that rubber room, scratching on the walls with a crayon. ( pardon my paraphrase. )

Wayne Z

[Crappingbear]

Earlier the question was asked, and its a good one, if you and the kids are trapped and there is no possibility of escape and you are moments away from all being eaten, would you put everyone down and cap yourself? There is no real way to honestly answer that but my "general" feeling is it would be more merciful on the kids to be painlessly put down by dad rather than ripped apart and eaten alive. Ugh, need to wash my hands just thinking about it. :(

[Mike70]

after thinking about it, i had a whole spiel mentally prepared for this thread but i've decided to scrap it. i've got a 3 year old and this thread really, really touches on areas i'd just rather not go. i know what i'd do but i can't really openly fess up to it.

like wyldwraith, this is the first thread in a long time that has given me the creeping hyena willies.

[MoonSylver]

after thinking about it, i had a whole spiel mentally prepared for this thread but i've decided to scrap it. i've got a 3 year old and this thread really, really touches on areas i'd just rather not go. i know what i'd do but i can't really openly fess up to it.

like wyldwraith, this is the first thread in a long time that has given me the creeping hyena willies.

Ditto. This is a scenario my mind has touched on briefly in the past & shied right back away from. I've got a vivid imagination & visualize in great detail with ease, so to even start thinking about it makes me uneasy.

[MagicMoonMonkey]

Earlier the question was asked, and its a good one, if you and the kids are trapped and there is no possibility of escape and you are moments away from all being eaten, would you put everyone down and cap yourself? There is no real way to honestly answer that but my "general" feeling is it would be more merciful on the kids to be painlessly put down by dad rather than ripped apart and eaten alive. Ugh, need to wash my hands just thinking about it. :(

CB, I feel bad at posing the question to you. I used to sit in relative comfort and like most within these forums, imagine how amazing an outbreak would be. Then our lives change and these little clones of ourselves consume our lives.
Since my daughter has been on the scene my little apocalyptic fantasies remain at the back of my mind (*occassionally they surface, but shelved as quickly as they birth). I know the whole undead thing is just a genre and a fantasy, but when you try to imagine you and them in the scenario it just presents too many difficult emotions (Depending on how deep you delve in to your day dream).
I believe the answer to Children and the Living Dead is just simply a 'choose to ignore' element.
It's weird how your whole perspective of life changes when you become a parent. If you bear with me, I will portray an instance within a dream that left me quite unhappy for some time after.

The scenario was weird. There was obviously something wrong with the world. I am not quite sure what was going on, but I do know that it was the end of times. (sorry for the cliche, but it was the end)
I remember carrying my daughter, who was at the age where she had started crawling. I was in the streets and I knew the end was close and the thing foremost in my mind during this dream was to take my daughter away from the chaos in the streets. I entered a store that retailed baby goods - like Mothercare - and I placed her down on a window display that was adorned with a white fluffy floor and a whole manner of soft toys. I sat heart broken as I watched her crawl amongst the display playing with the soft toys and smiling at me as everthing, including my daughter and I were engulfed in a bright white light. I was heart broken when I awoke, and I think perhaps I am still heart broken to this day. Even though it was just a dream, it broke my heart.
This is the price we pay for being parents. We can not indulge in our apocalyptic fantasies any more because it hurts too much to imagine our children in our dark worlds.
I doubt there is anyone within these forums that have children/grandchildren who could honestly say, hand on heart, it doesn't make them uncomfortable and unhappy when the children 'pop' into the equation during the daydream.
Our children are our anchors to reality now.

I also said earlier, if we had a movie that was so dark and emotive where it dealt with the issue of the children, then I honestly believe many would confine the genre to Joey's freezer along with his book.

As an answer to my own question, I do not know if I could do what needed to be done. I honestly don't. We know what would need to be done the moment I posed the question and you read the question. I suppose ultimately we would do the unthinkable considering the alternative. It's a totally messed up scenario.
Perhaps it was a question that should never have been asked.

[Publius]

As an answer to my own question, I do not know if I could do what needed to be done. I honestly don't. We know what would need to be done the moment I posed the question and you read the question. I suppose ultimately we would do the unthinkable considering the alternative. It's a totally messed up scenario.

One of the most haunting moments I've seen in a movie is the end of The Mist, where
the hero had the courage to "do what needed to be done," only to discover seconds later that it didn't need to be done after all. Ouch.

[Neil]

One of the most haunting moments I've seen in a movie is the end of The Mist, where
the hero had the courage to "do what needed to be done," only to discover seconds later that it didn't need to be done after all. Ouch.

Yeh, shame it wasn't done better though... I found it a bit hammy...

[zombieparanoia]

For some reason I keep thinking of that old MASH episode where hawkeye goes to the shrink because he is traumatized by an experience on a bus full of people hiding out from enemy soldiers or something. He keeps talking about this woman killing her chicken because it was making noise that would have gotten them all discovered and killed and in the end he admits it was a baby not a chicken.


Might make a good zombie story.

[Debbieangel]

I was watching the news today and this guy was held up in his house keeping cops at bay. Anyhoo, the schools were in lockdown, that is what they do here if there is something happening near schools.
What do you think would happen if the realization of a zombie outbreak would happen while kids were still in school?
Say, word comes out there are killers on the loose the news program is sketchy as to what is happening, they don't know that there are zombies not people killing.
Can you imagine the chaos? Parents trying to get to the kids! Teachers trying to keep order and keep the kids safe all the while not knowing that zombies are outside.

[krakenslayer]

There is a kinda similar thread here: http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=13647 ...some interesting discussion there.

Synchronicity too, cos MagicMoonMonkey just posted for the first time in aeons and I just noticed he started that thread. :p

[Debbieangel]

There is a kinda similar thread here: http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=13647 ...some interesting discussion there.

Synchronicity too, cos MagicMoonMonkey just posted for the first time in aeons and I just noticed he started that thread. :p

oops, I missed that, thanks kraken!

[MagicMoonMonkey]

There is a kinda similar thread here: http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=13647 ...some interesting discussion there.

Synchronicity too, cos MagicMoonMonkey just posted for the first time in aeons and I just noticed he started that thread. :p

I am always here... briefly... Just got a few extra minutes to waste tonight.

BTW, the bun in the oven was a boy. I named him Nathan. I will try to get a pic of the wee pain in the arse to you at some point.

[capncnut]

Threads merged.

[Debbieangel]

thanks Capn ;)

[krakenslayer]

I am always here... briefly... Just got a few extra minutes to waste tonight.

BTW, the bun in the oven was a boy. I named him Nathan. I will try to get a pic of the wee pain in the arse to you at some point.

Congrats friend! I'll have a beer in his honour.

[Trin]

Imagine an infant unit (newly borns) in a hospital... In the end there'd either be no one there to staff it, or something worse there instead to 'look after' them :eek:
The most horrifying is coming upon the infant unit in the hospital and finding 20 live healthy babies with no one to care for them. Can you imagine? 20 babies to take care of in the midst of zombies? All those diapers. The smell would be terrible. It'd make zombie rotting flesh seem awesome. And the moaning of the undead would be welcome after all the baby crying. And what about the scavenging? Screw guns, ammo, gasoline... we need diaper cream!!

It's no wonder children don't show up in zombie movies. They'd lose all the dads out there. And we're a big market.