What now for Star Trek? (spoilers)

[darth los]

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/695426/What-NOW-For-Star-Trek-Warning-Full-Of-Spoilers.html



Interesting read.


Wadda you guys think?





:cool:

[bassman]

Meh. It could make a good film, but I don't want to see Khan again. Now that they have this whole alternate universe to play with, I say they come up with original stories.

I imagine the writers spent a great deal of time trying to figure out how to correctly restart the franchise without pissing on the fans and now that they've done that, I don't think they would try to start remaking stories from the original films/series.

[darth los]

I'd agree except given the fact that he's the single greatest villain in the franchise. The dynamic between him and Kirk is very unique. It's a shame that he wasn't a recurring character.


I see what you're saying though. Perhaps they can have him on the periphery. Like have his fingerprints all over the film but not actually have him in it. Who knows?






:cool:

[Publius]

In your link they talk about the need for someone with an equally-cool Latin accent to replace Ricardo Montalban as Khan, despite the fact that Khan is supposed to be of East Indian descent. No way. Since John Cho is already Sulu, Khan can be none other than . . . Kal Penn. They can call it Harold and Kumar Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before! ;)

[Mike70]

NO. NO. NO. i have absolutely zero desire to see "space seed" remade, rebooted, reimagined, hell re-anythinged.

another thing that i really don't like about this new film is the whole vulcan thing. i think that makes no fucking sense at all and is pretty much enough of a reason for me to lose interest. i really hate when remakes, reboots do shit like that. just for the sake of example - i lost complete interest in the new doctor who (which i think really sucks moose anus) almost as soon as it was revealed that gallifrey was "destroyed." fucking stupid.

[bassman]

NO. NO. NO. i have absolutely zero desire to see "space seed" remade, rebooted, reimagined, hell re-anythinged.

another thing that i really don't like about this new film is the whole vulcan thing. i think that makes no fucking sense at all and is pretty much enough of a reason for me to lose interest. i really hate when remakes, reboots do shit like that. just for the sake of example - i lost complete interest in the new doctor who (which i think really sucks moose anus) almost as soon as it was revealed that gallifrey was "destroyed." fucking stupid.

Uh oh. Looks like we have one of those brick wall Trekkies in out midst. To Mike, NOTHING new will ever be good.:p

Just kidding around with ya, of course.

As I said before, they've found a way to begin a new series without stepping on the toes of those before it, so they should definitely stick with all new stories. Otherwise people like Mike will kill them.:D

[darth los]

Uh oh. Looks like we have one of those brick wall Trekkies in out midst. To Mike, NOTHING new will ever be good.:p

Just kidding around with ya, of course.

As I said before, they've found a way to begin a new series without stepping on the toes of those before it, so they should definitely stick with all new stories. Otherwise people like Mike will kill them.:D


They already changed enough things to get rabid fanboys up in arms.


The only thing I can say is whenever you're making a movie based on an already established franchise/property you're going to piss more than a few people off. Just worry about making the best film you can and the rest will fall into place. Even if the fanboys are pissed they will be drowned out by the tens of millions who loved it.






:cool:

[bassman]

They already changed enough things to get rabid fanboys up in arms.


They did? I'm no trekkie, but I do have a general knowledge of the series and I can't even count a handful of things that should be an issue. I thought the alternate timeline thing would please trekkies like Mike. You've still got the original to consider "canon", but you have this series as well. Both of them count and neither cancels out the other...

[Mike70]

They did? I'm no trekkie, but I do have a general knowledge of the series and I can't even count a handful of things that should be an issue. I thought the alternate timeline thing would please trekkies like Mike. You've still got the original to consider "canon", but you have this series as well. Both of them count and neither cancels out the other...

actually, i'm not that hardcore about it. i don't really want to see "space seed" redone because, let's face it, you can't out khan ricardo montalban.

my problem with what happens to vulcan is one of suspension of disbelief. being very science literate comes with a price sometimes, in that you find yourself completely unable to suspend your incredulity and believe something that is totally fooking whack. movies that have planets in them being split up, blown up, disrupted -whatever just make me laugh. star wars in not only one of the most scientifically idiotic movies ever, the death star is probably the most improbable piece of technology in the history of science fiction (there would be other contenders).

destroying a planet takes lots and lots and lots of energy on a scale that is almost hard to comprehend. for example to blow up the earth would require roughly the amount of energy that the sun produces in a WEEK. think about that the next you see alderaan bite it.

[bassman]

Dude....these are science fiction films in which people bounce around space in colorful clothing and shoot lasers at each other. Suspend your damn disbelief and enjoy for what it is - ENTERTAINMENT!

And you love movies with walking dead people. Just throwing that out there.:)

[Mike70]

And you love movies with walking dead people. Just throwing that out there.:)

it is easier to believe in that than in a madman on a spacecraft or station destroying an entire planet.

[krakenslayer]

it is easier to believe in that than in a madman on a spacecraft or station destroying an entire planet.

I dunno, the latter is probably more possible. At least it does not break the laws of physics in the same way as zombies do.

I sort of understand the reticence to like the new movies though. Personally I hate it when sequels/prequels/reboots contradict and break each other's rules. I think sequelized fiction is more engrossing when it is set in a persistent and consistent universe.

[Publius]

I dunno, the latter is probably more possible. At least it does not break the laws of physics in the same way as zombies do.


It doesn't? Personally, I think zombies are more plausible from a physics standpoint than the way Vulcan is destroyed in the movie. From what I've read about it, anyways -- I haven't seen it yet.

[SRP76]

Already saw Space Seed. And Wrath of Khan. Why exactly do I need to see a rehash of either one?


I'd agree except given the fact that he's the single greatest villain in the franchise.


No way. Q is way above Khan (if you consider him a "villain", which is kind of fuzzy). Dukat is also miles ahead. And Lore is at least equal to Khan.

[krakenslayer]

I've not seen it yet either so I don't know exactly what happens, but of course it does require a ridiculous amount of energy to blow up a planet. However, to bring back the dead as unstoppable eating machines you'd need to go one further and actually reverse the flow of cosmic entropy! :D

[wayzim]

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/695426/What-NOW-For-Star-Trek-Warning-Full-Of-Spoilers.html



Interesting read.


Wadda you guys think?





:cool:

Since they already tapped the new BattleStar Galactica for the warp affect ( and we know how that show handled the original plot. ) Abrams and crew should just go ape-shit and be original. Keep the basics intact but don't worry about trying to placate everyone.
Make a great freakin sequel.

Like Harlen Ellison had said to J. Michael Strazynski (creator of Babylon 5 )
"If it's crap it won't sell, so don't write crap. "

Not entirely true, because the universe is unfair that way, too much crap has done remarkably well.

Whatever, this is an opportunity to do well.

Wayne Z

[darth los]

No way. Q is way above Khan (if you consider him a "villain", which is kind of fuzzy).


If you want to bring the next generation into it I guess you could make that argument. That's part of the reason I brought up being a recurring character. That almost by default makes the villain have more impact on the cannon and thus a "greater" villain.

Can you just imagine if Khan would show up a couple of times a season wreakig havok!?! That would have been freakin' sweet man!


In terms of Spanish accent, in the absence of any other ideas I nominate Antonio Banderas. ( Just a suggestion)






:cool:

[Publius]

I've not seen it yet either so I don't know exactly what happens, but of course it does require a ridiculous amount of energy to blow up a planet. However, to bring back the dead as unstoppable eating machines you'd need to go one further and actually reverse the flow of cosmic entropy! :D

Local reduction of entropy in an open system is what life does. From a physics perspective, it's within the realm of plausibility for a bacterium or nanobots to take over and reanimate a corpse, at least for a short period of time. The biggest difficulty is postulating an energy source that will extend that period of time for as long as possible. But what happens in Star Trek is a total non-starter as far as the laws of physics are concerned.

My understanding is that the planet is not just blown up, but is eaten by a black hole. The mass of the black hole could not possibly eat up Vulcan anywhere near as quickly as is shown in the movie -- the event horizon and tidal forces would just be too small -- and before the planet could be eaten up, the pressure of all that matter would cause the bulk of the planet's mass to blow off in a huge explosion (probably killing those watching the destruction of Vulcan) before it could actually be sucked into the black hole. Some of these details were discussed extensively back when the Large Hadron Collider became operational last year.

[Mike70]

Local reduction of entropy in an open system is what life does. From a physics perspective, it's within the realm of plausibility for a bacterium or nanobots to take over and reanimate a corpse, at least for a short period of time. The biggest difficulty is postulating an energy source that will extend that period of time for as long as possible. But what happens in Star Trek is a total non-starter as far as the laws of physics are concerned.

My understanding is that the planet is not just blown up, but is eaten by a black hole. The mass of the black hole could not possibly eat up Vulcan anywhere near as quickly as is shown in the movie -- the event horizon and tidal forces would just be too small -- and before the planet could be eaten up, the pressure of all that matter would cause the bulk of the planet's mass to blow off in a huge explosion (probably killing those watching the destruction of Vulcan) before it could actually be sucked into the black hole. Some of these details were discussed extensively back when the Large Hadron Collider became operational last year.

and a really small black hole might not even get the chance to get started because it just might evaporate very shortly after formation because of hawking radiation.

[bassman]

No story details, but great news that Abrams has officially signed on (http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/jj-abrams-officially-beams-into-the-director-chair-for-star-trek-2) to return for the sequel. Script being polished, filming begins at the end of this year, release either Christmas 2012 or Summer 2013. Yay.



http://www.joblo.com/digital/images/news/kirk%20vs%20kirk.jpg

Just thought that picture was awesome...

[AcesandEights]

Awesome news as far as I'm concerned! Been waiting on this announcement.

[Mike70]

Awesome news as far as I'm concerned! Been waiting on this announcement.

me too. i know that i had some criticisms of the first flick, but it's become a case of the more i've watched it, the more i've liked it.

[bassman]

The new film kinda turned me on to the older Trek stuff. I had casually seen all the movies, a few of the original series, and a great deal of TNG, but after seeing the new film i'm now going back and watching the original series on instant netflix. Hasn't aged well, but still lots of fun.

Can't wait to see what they do with Trek 2!

[Trin]

I'm a Star Trek fan. Maybe even fanboy. I'm not sure about rabid fanboy, but I watch Star Trek about 5 times a week in one form or another.

Let's just get any perception of my views coming from being a fanboy out of the way. I'm not against the reboot. I'm not irritated that they forked off another universe to play in. I'm fine with them going back and starting the characters off from scratch with new actors and broad latitude to recreate events. I'm not tied to cannon. I was excited to see what the new Trek had to offer.

But I hated the reboot movie. Hated, hated, hated. It was awful.

On a broader note, I think the author of the linked article represents EXACTLY what is wrong with movies today. He goes into all the reasons why the Star Trek movie sucked, then excuses it all because the movie "kicked ass" with action and special effects. Is that all we demand from movies these days?

I think the idea of reinventing Khan is actually a pretty good one. It gives fanboys an iconic character to draw them into the theaters, and with the events unwritten the movie could take the events in a whole different direction to keep them from seeming stale.

But I have zero hope that anything coming out of Star Trek is going to be anything better than a rash of special effects executed against a backdrop of arrogant teenagers.

[rongravy]

Can't wait to see what they do with Trek 2!
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

I liked the reboot.
Also, only ever liked original show and crew. Eff that Next Gen and beyond crap. My sister shits her pants over it, though.

[Trin]

Star Trek has been a troubled series on the big screen since day one when ST:The Motion Picture made us all take a collective yawn.

Wrath of Khan was awesome, cementing Star Trek in that tiny category of franchises where the sequel outdid the original.

After that we had a rash of mediocre movies with some real stinkers thrown in. Time travel to save the whales being my personal least favorite.

Then the ST:TNG movies hit. Generations was mediocre, but iconic since it had both Picard and Kirk.

And with TNG once again the franchise is hit and miss. I personally loved both Insurrection and First Contact. But Nemesis? I've never sat through the whole thing.

As I wrote above I am not a fan of the reboot. And I have no expectations for the reboot sequel. I expect it'll be awful.

What got me started on this today is the Deep Space Nine coming to Netflix. And I have to ask myself the question I've asked several times before. Why no DS9 movie?!? Sure they wrapped up the Dominion business in the series. But come on! Before I sit through another reboot suck-fest I'd love to see either Voyager or DS9 hit the big screen.

How cool would it be for a rogue group of changelings to attempt to reassert the Dominion, dragging Enterprise, the Defiant, and Voyager into the conflict? That'd be good movie fodder right there.

[Kaos]

it is easier to believe in that than in a madman on a spacecraft or station destroying an entire planet.

W_Ij7IzpWoI


:D

PS Good to see you, man.

[bassman]

Benecio Del Toro has been cast as the films villian. Rumor has it that it's Khan, but JJ Abrams is denying that.


The gorgeous Alice Eve has been cast in an unspecified role. Most likely a member of the Enterprise.

And last but not least....Robocop himself (http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/peter-weller-joining-trek-2-plus-is-benicio-del-toro-play-khan-or-not), Peter Weller has also been cast in an unspecified role. Haven't seen him around lately...

All unknown roles, but i'ts nice to see this thing is finally and truthfully rolling along.

[AcesandEights]

And last but not least....Robocop himself (http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/peter-weller-joining-trek-2-plus-is-benicio-del-toro-play-khan-or-not), Peter Weller has also been cast in an unspecified role. Haven't seen him around lately...

He was in Dexter last season.

He still has that commanding voice, but he's gotten long in the tooth. He could make a great character or a hammy one depending on how it all washes out.

[JDFP]

DS9 was absolutely the best Trek. Not only was it great Trek but it was great sci-fi - I'd rank it along with nu-BSG as being one of the best sci-fi series of all time. It's just that fantastic.

And I'd agree with others here that Gul Dukat was probably the best villain in all of Trek. Sure, Khan is wicked groovy - but Gul Dukat is the epitome of absolute power corrupting absolutely and madness following the loss of power in overcoming his entire nature. Marc Alaimo was incredible in the role and overall I'd rank him as one of the greatest "bad guys" in any series or film for that matter.

I'd give the new Trek a 3/5 for a rating. It kept my interest and there were enough nods to we old school Trekkers to give honor/homage when it was due. However, I'm sorry, but I just don't buy other people playing the roles of these iconic legends.

I'm sorry Chris Pine, you may be a fine actor, but you, sir, are no Captain James Tiberius Kirk. Only one man can ever be the real Kirk.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing Trek fade off into history or perhaps a "follow-up" series somewhere down the line - but a complete re-boot (though it's not technically a complete re-boot as it's an alaternate universe and blah blah...) of the series with other actors in the roles seems a bit pointless to me (as, honestly, most remakes seem to me - I just don't get the point) other than for a way for a studio to cash in on an established franchise for extra "given" cash available.

Ultimately, my 700+ hours of Trek I have on my DVD's are not going anywhere - between that and my few hundred Pocket Book Trek novels I have enough Trek to do me for life. More in an "alternate existence" with different characters attempting to be the characters I've grown up with and know and love - even if relatively well done with some honor given to we old fans - it's just not for me.

When the new Trek 2 (Re-Trek 2?) comes out I'll give it a chance on Netflix sometime (I don't go to theatres except for an extremely rare event) but don't foresee giving it above a 3/5 no matter how "great" the film may be - because it will always be a shadow of the real thing. In essence: It's like seeing someone else do a cover of (my musical hero) a Waylon Jennings song. The musician may be excellent and do a fine job - but, good sir, you'll never be Waylon no matter how great you do it.

j.p.

[EvilNed]

I really want Del Toro to be Khan! Please let him be Khan. As for Peter Weller, I hope he plays some crazy admirals, of which there were plenty in TNG. He'd fit in quite nicely as one of those. Or a Klingon. Any klingon.

[AcesandEights]

As for Peter Weller, I hope he plays some crazy admirals, of which there were plenty in TNG. He'd fit in quite nicely as one of those. Or a Klingon. Any klingon.

Why didn't I think of him as a Klingon?! He does have a perfect voice for it.

[krisvds]

Del Toro is out it seems (read it on AICN)
Khan presumably still an option for the lead villain?

[Mike70]

Peter Weller has also been cast in an unspecified role. Haven't seen him around lately...



peter weller has taken a big step back from acting in recent years. he went back to school, got a degree in Roman Art and Architecture and was teaching at Syracuse Univ. last i heard, he is working on his PHd at UCLA and hopes to finish it sometime next year.

you can see peter weller on a number of the history channel's shows on roman engineering as one of the the talking head experts. he also hosts the show "Engineering an Empire."

peter weller played the villain in one of the 4th season story arcs of "Enterprise." he was the leader of an xenophobic organization called Terra Prime.

[EvilNed]

peter weller played the villain in one of the 4th season story arcs of "Enterprise." he was the leader of an xenophobic organization called Terra Prime.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Damn, I miss that show. I wouldn't mind it if they did a full 7 season run out of that one.

[Mike70]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Damn, I miss that show. I wouldn't mind it if they did a full 7 season run out of that one.

I miss it too. i think that in many ways it is the best of the lot. i never understood the fanboy reaction to that show. that's one reason i've always said i love star trek but cannot stand most star trek fans. hardest fucking fan base in the world to please.

[EvilNed]

The most disturbing thing is that in Season 3 and 4 of Enterprise, it was really going into DS9 territory (I.e. Star Trek at it's very, very best) and for some reason people didn't like it? Had that show gone on for another 3 seasons, it would have ranked alongside DS9 and TNG, I'm sure of it.

EDIT: I'm not dissing Voyager. But in many ways, it was the most boring of the shows (plenty of episodes felt like rehashed TNG episodes).

[Kaos]

I liked Enterprise well enough, except for one thing... the seeming overuse of plots involving various team members being held hostage. A string of hostage of the week plots led me to watch other shows, but there were episodes that I loved.

[Mike70]

I liked Enterprise well enough, except for one thing... the seeming overuse of plots involving various team members being held hostage. A string of hostage of the week plots led me to watch other shows, but there were episodes that I loved.

your point is granted. there was way too much of that in certain eps. but i think that the great eps of "enterprise" are so far above usual tv fare, that i can forgive them of that sin.

"impulse" is an awesome ep. the closest Star Trek has ever come to doing zombies.

[EvilNed]

Yeah, I remember those Vulcan-zombies. That was when they were in the expanse, right? It had even been foreshadowed in the previous season that a Vulcan ship had gone missing in that scary place. Nice payoff.

Wasn't Jean-Luc Picard kidnapped on a monthly basis, as well? I think it's a pretty overused theme in Star Trek in general. It's wasn't uncommon for a crewmember to get captured and/or stranded on an alien planet or either learned to understand and respect whoever had captured them or whoever they had been stranded with.

[Mike70]

Yeah, I remember those Vulcan-zombies. That was when they were in the expanse, right? It had even been foreshadowed in the previous season that a Vulcan ship had gone missing in that scary place. Nice payoff.


yep. it was part of the whole Xindi/Delphic expanse story arc that took up all of season 3. never really bought into the concept of the Xindi. an alien world that produces 5 (6 if you include the extinct avians) intelligent species, all of whom seem to have little problem working together (until enterprise and capt. archer show up, of course) is damn near ridiculous. esp. when you consider that star trek series' ("enterprise" included) always made a big deal about how intelligent life was relatively rare, but that it was even rarer for more than 1 intelligent species to survive the evolutionary process on any given planet. it stretched the suspension of disbelief that sci-fi requires nearly to its breaking point for me.

-- -------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------



EDIT: I'm not dissing Voyager. But in many ways, it was the most boring of the shows (plenty of episodes felt like rehashed TNG episodes).

something else we totally agree on. Voyager was a good series in its own right but always feels a bit tepid compared to the other shows.