The Real Debate Batman (1989) or Batman Begins (2005)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Which truly is the better film?

Batman Begins gets my nod solely on the story and characters. The relationship of Bruce and His Dad, his conflict within to become Batman etc etc.


Thoughts?


I wish I had a poll Function. HEY MINION MAKE ME A POLL BATMAN or BATMAN BEGINS

[Arcades057]

Tough question, but I gotta go with the original. Micheal Keaton and Jack mothertruckin Nicholson are Gods.

[axlish]

I side with Batman Begins. It exceeded my expectations, I don't think I could have written it any better.

We be pollin' now :)

[deadwrtr]

Which truly is the better film?

Batman Begins gets my nod solely on the story and characters. The relationship of Bruce and His Dad, his conflict within to become Batman etc etc.


Thoughts?

Batman Begins gets my vote. While I liked Keaton and Nicholson, I found that Batman to be a bit too comic-bookish, whereas Batman Begins developed the ideology of Batman much better, especially his foray's into the criminal mind.

Plus, Bale is the sh*t. Did you see him in The Machinist? Holy crap... what an actor.

[erisi236]

gotta give the original some love :)

[Danny]

the origional, batman begins sucked it was a prequel for christs sake!:eek:

[glsjaw]

for petes sake Batman begins is so hollywood and not the true meaning of batman, (I.E.nice batmobile)

[Tri0xin]

Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby!

Tim Burton's Batman. Michael, Kim, Jack... great cast.

[Hawkboy]

I didn't think it was even up for debate with anyone (at least in Comic Book circles)... Batman Begins captures the feeling of the Comic much more than the Burton pic. As the Batman films progressed after Burtons they became less like the comic and more like the camp-fest TV series that really doesn't reflect the true comic Batman very well.

My only complaint was that they should have ditched the Black suit and gone with something more like the comic.

[MinionZombie]

Obviously you figured it out, so I'll sit back in my chair and vote for "Begins". While the original film is friggin' awesome, the new film's story, acting, character development etc is just fantastic. It felt so good to see a franchise that was dead in the water, twitching and dribbling, to be reborn with an excellent new film, and Bale rocked ... slightly daft "gruff Batman voice" aside.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I always give props to the original especially because of Nicholson, but lets face facts BATMAN BEGINS was closer to the comic than BATMAN. Plus in BEGINS you get to see who realy killed Bruce Waynes parents. It wasn't the joker as the 1st film would have you believe, it was a homeless man on the streets of Gotham.

For overall entertainment BEGINS delivers, BATMAN exceeds. For overall quality I have to go with BEGINS. For performances and story, again BEGINS gets my nod. :D

[bassman]

the origional, batman begins sucked it was a prequel for christs sake!:eek:

It's not a prequel. It has nothing to do with the old Burton/Shumacher franchise. In fact, the villian in the next film is supposed to be the Joker. So it's not a prequel....It's the beginning of a new franchise(which will start going downhill just like the last one did, i'm sure)


It's hard to choose between the two. They're both great films. Overall, I think I would have to go with "Begins" because of the reasons everyone else have stated. "Begins" makes Wayne/Batman more human.

I consider both about equal..

[DjfunkmasterG]

It is, but it isn't a prequel.

However, you are right it has S H I T to do with the Burton and Shuhacker films.

[bassman]

It is, but it isn't a prequel.


What do you mean? "It is" what?

One other thing I like about "Begins" is the awesome supporting cast. Sure, Burton's "Batman" had Nicholson, but "Begins" has Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Gary Oldman(who I think made a PERFECT Gordon), Tom Wilkinson, etc. Truly awesome cast.


Hopefully this "Batman" film franchise can stay decent past the second film....

[Tullaryx]

This is a simple one for me: Batman Begins. I may be the few who actually didn't think the original Burton Batman was that great once I actually got past the novelty of a comic book movie finally being on the big screen.

Burton's film really only had one thing going for it and that was Wayne Manor and the gothic feel of Gotham. Other than that all the characters were either overwritten caricatures of their comic version, and remember Burton was supposedly basing his film post-Miller Dark Knight Returns Batman in terms of attitude and feel. Keaton was all wrong to play both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Not once did I feel like Keaton as the Wayne persona was actually an indolent playboy who cared nothing but himself, or at least pretended not to have any sort of social agenda. And as Batman he didn't have the physicality to pull it off.

Nicholson was a very good Joker, but again he seemed more like Nicholson pretending to be Joker instead of actually becoming the character. Really, Nicholson seemed like he was playing one of his past kookie characters but with clown make-up on. Don't even get me started on what Burton did to the character of Police Commissioner Gordon.

Nolan's Batman Begins actually follows the concepts and ideas laid down in the comics. Nolan wasn't a slave to the canonical information from the comics, but he actually was able to capture the spirit, if not, the exact feel of them and at the same time keep the film based on reality. The supporting characters were very close to what was established in the comics, with special mention towards Miller's Year: One characterizations. Even the technology used by Batman were shown, described and explained to make them something that could be possible. As for Bale's voice for Batman, it's little-known outside of the comic-book geeks (which I am proud to call myself one) that Bruce Wayne changes his voice to be a menacing raspy sounding voice to be Batman's voice. That was a little detail in the film that made me smile. I knew then they wanted to do the definitive Batman film. As for the Batmobile...whatever reservations I had ended once I saw it in action and also realized that this is just Batman starting out, hence he still hasn't made too much modifications to make it look more like a Bat-themed vehicle.

There's more to say, but for now those are what made Nolan's film better and really put Burton's film out into the open as something that really looks closer to the 60's camp TV series than to what Miller tried to do when he reinvented the Dark Knight.

[p2501]

Which truly is the better film?

Batman Begins gets my nod solely on the story and characters. The relationship of Bruce and His Dad, his conflict within to become Batman etc etc.


Thoughts?

I wish I had a poll Function. HEY MINION MAKE ME A POLL BATMAN or BATMAN BEGINS


Batman begins.

i've been reading Batman since i was about 8. and i can say Nicholson was the worst joker, this side of Ceasar Romero. Keaton was great, robert whul was ok, and you can never go wrong with billy dee williams.

kim bassinger on the other hand need to be shot.


Batman begins was just flawless. there's not a single misstep in the entire film.

Short of Kevin Conroy, Christian Bale, is the absolute perfect Bruce wayne/batman.


, and Bale rocked ... slightly daft "gruff Batman voice" aside.


really? i though it was fine. it was clear he was still working on the "batman" icon voice, but by the end he had it down.

[Tullaryx]

Batman begins.

i've been reading Batman since i was about 8. and i can say Nicholson was the worst joker, this side of Ceasar Romero. Keaton was great, robert whul was ok, and you can never go wrong with billy dee williams.

kim bassinger on the other hand need to be shot.


Batman begins was just flawless. there's not a single misstep in the entire film.

Short of Kevin Conroy, Christian Bale, is the absolute perfect Bruce wayne/batman.




really? i though it was fine. it was clear he was still working on the "batman" icon voice, but by the end he had it down.


Until convinced by a new portrayer...the definitive on-screen (small of big) will be Paul Dini Joker as voiced by Mark Hamill.

[p2501]

Until convinced by a new portrayer...the definitive on-screen (small of big) will be Paul Dini Joker as voiced by Mark Hamill.



agreed. i almost want him to be used for the Joker in the BB sequel, but i doubt it would work out.

having said that. if you've seen batman :dead end, the joker in it was simply amazing.

[Tullaryx]

agreed. i almost want him to be used for the Joker in the BB sequel, but i doubt it would work out.

having said that. if you've seen batman :dead end, the joker in it was simply amazing.

Aye, that I've seen.

[DjfunkmasterG]

That is an awesome short film. I want to know where I can buy the real good BATMAN short films at, can anyone please tell me?

[Tullaryx]

I got mine from the people who made the short film. I don't know if they still have ths ite up or if they had to take it down. I know Time-Warner was none too happy about the work.

[idsaluteyoubub]

I voted for Batman Begins...the story seemed a hell of a lot more real and true to the comics at the same time. They showed Bruce Wayne as how Bruce is...sometimes he has to be an asshole.

I do have to agree that the Batmobile was the only thing I disliked about the film.

Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow was one of my favorite villains in any film ever...he played that guy to perfection.

[Tullaryx]

Also, Batman Begins finally made it so that of all the badass characters on the screen... Batman will always be the king of the hill. No matter how dangerous, devious and psychotic his opponents were, Batman will always be the toughest hombre in the story and the reader knows it.

[p2501]

That is an awesome short film. I want to know where I can buy the real good BATMAN short films at, can anyone please tell me?


Conventions are your best bet.

i managed to score the student film version of "the crow" at wizard con in philly. i never though i'd find it.

[EvilNed]

I would vote for Batman Begins, but any film that takes itself seriously AND features ninjas is just ridiculous.

And yes, I know ninjas were in the comics.

I won't vote for any of them, as I didn't like the original either.

[Hawkboy]

And yes, I know ninjas were in the comics.



Actually they weren't.

[DeadJonas190]

I love Batman, but Batman Begins is where I put my vote.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I see the majority is going with Batman Begins. That's good that people recognize what a solid film, and entry it is to the franchise. It makes you wish the Joel Shuhacker versions never existed.

[EvilNed]

Actually they weren't.

Really? A friend of mine told me that the League of Shadows and the Ninjas were in the comics. If not, then the film sucks even more.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Really? A friend of mine told me that the League of Shadows and the Ninjas were in the comics. If not, then the film sucks even more.

what if we told you that you suck even more? :D all kidding aside. I only read a few Batman comics and I don't remember the Ninja's, but again I only read a few. Mostly Frank Millers stuff.

Also, you can't say it sucks... It has brain eating zombies in it.

[EvilNed]

I just find the notion of ninjas to be so incomprehensible silly, that no serious film should feature them. The Last Samurai anyone? :barf:

[DjfunkmasterG]

I just find the notion of ninjas to be so incomprehensible silly, that no serious film should feature them. The Last Samurai anyone? :barf:


You do know that Ninjitsu was not just a fighting style? It is ancient Japanese art. A ninjitsu master is considered one of the top martial arts masters in the world, and the ninja are steeped in Japanese culture and held in very high regard throughout the Japanese community. It takes 20+ years to master the style which is filled with extreme self discipline and culture.

[EvilNed]

You do know that Ninjitsu was not just a fighting style? It is ancient Japanese art. A ninjitsu master is considered one of the top martial arts masters in the world, and the ninja are steeped in Japanese culture and held in very high regard throughout the Japanese community. It takes 20+ years to master the style which is filled with extreme self discipline and culture.

I probably know more about ninjutsu than any other guy here on this board. I practiced it for a few years, and I tell you that most Ninjutsu arts out there are pure bogus. Try Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, which is the most complete (but still far from the original art) martial art out there.

Ninjas did not dress in black and go around murder people. They were, put simply, spies. Nothing else. They were spies, just like there were spies in medieval europe, in ancient times etc. etc. They would infiltrate a place, and would only kill if necessary (self defence). Most of the time they would rather get killed themselves, since ninjutsu is a form of spying, rather than fighting. A samurai or even a simple palace guard, would have more experience fighting than a ninja would.

That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid.

Original ninjutsu had you training in things like climbing walls, breathing underwater, stealing and such things. It was more of a survival art than a fighting art (but there were elements of fighting, of course).

[Eyebiter]

The Joker in Batman was excellent compared to the Dark Ninjas of Batman Begins. Also the character of Alfred was well done.

However given the choice I'd rather watch Batman Begins.

[Tullaryx]

I probably know more about ninjutsu than any other guy here on this board. I practiced it for a few years, and I tell you that most Ninjutsu arts out there are pure bogus. Try Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, which is the most complete (but still far from the original art) martial art out there.

Ninjas did not dress in black and go around murder people. They were, put simply, spies. Nothing else. They were spies, just like there were spies in medieval europe, in ancient times etc. etc. They would infiltrate a place, and would only kill if necessary (self defence). Most of the time they would rather get killed themselves, since ninjutsu is a form of spying, rather than fighting. A samurai or even a simple palace guard, would have more experience fighting than a ninja would.

That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid.

Original ninjutsu had you training in things like climbing walls, breathing underwater, stealing and such things. It was more of a survival art than a fighting art (but there were elements of fighting, of course).

You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made.

[bassman]

You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made.


You fellas ever heard of suspension of disbelief? You need to use it in almost every film. It's just the artistic license of the director to make better entertainment.

[EvilNed]

You are correct. But as for your assertion its hard to take ninjas seriously in the film....It's a comic book movie with a storyline trying to base the setting to more realistic and modern times. It's like saying Star Wars and Star Trek films are hard to take seriously because you can here noise in space during the battles. Science fact that since there is no air in space and its a total vacuum there can't be any sound made.

A comic book movie is no reason to just put silly and ridiculous things into it. It totally breaks the immersion of the film. Ugh.

[Tullaryx]

A comic book movie is no reason to just put silly and ridiculous things into it. It totally breaks the immersion of the film. Ugh.

I think you miss the point of what an escapist film is about. I mean if you have something against ninjas in films then fine, but to say it ruined a film because of it is abit like nitpicking. I didn't like that Katie Holmes character was pretty much your typical damsel-in-distress throw-in but it didn't ruin the film. It actually made the performances of the other cast members that much greater in comparison.

[EvilNed]

I think you miss the point of what an escapist film is about. I mean if you have something against ninjas in films then fine, but to say it ruined a film because of it is abit like nitpicking. I didn't like that Katie Holmes character was pretty much your typical damsel-in-distress throw-in but it didn't ruin the film. It actually made the performances of the other cast members that much greater in comparison.

It breaks the immersion, to me that's a serious problem with a film. A film, to me, should deliver an atmospheric and entertaining experience.

[Hawkboy]

That's why the notion of secret ninja societies with straight swords (ninja-to, look it up) is just stupid.



Yet a guy running around in a bat suit is okay? :rolleyes:

[EvilNed]

Yet a guy running around in a bat suit is okay? :rolleyes:

Never said it was. Did you read my first reply to this topic? :rolleyes: (and I dont see what Romeros satire has to do with this)

[Hawkboy]

Never said it was. Did you read my first reply to this topic? :rolleyes: (and I dont see what Romeros satire has to do with this)

Yes I did and your point still doesn't really hold water. Again this movie was not a historical account of Ninjas, so in a world were people can fly, and guys dress up as a Bat to fight crime, it's not really a stretch to accept this secret Ninja society does exist in the DC universe. To think its stupid is to not understand the real world Vs. the film world.

(The Romero quote was a wrong cut and paste now fixed!)

[EvilNed]

My point holds water as long as it's my opinion? As I've said before, a film that features ninjas and takes itself seriously? Silly. That film, to me, doesn't hold water.

[p2501]

ahh and now the nitpicking begins.

i you don;t like ninjas that's fine. but singling it out a primary reason for disliking the movie is somewhat inane.

your ok, with the implausable microwave weaponry, and a 4- 6 ton vehicle driving on rooftops. but the ninjas man, the ninjas are what killed the movie for you?

it just sounds silly.


Yes I did and your point still doesn't really hold water. Again this movie was not a historical account of Ninjas, so in a world were people can fly, and guys dress up as a Bat to fight crime, it's not really a stretch to accept this secret Ninja society does exist in the DC universe. To think its stupid is to not understand the real world Vs. the film world.




agreed, i'm not understanding why this stuck in his craw so much.

[bassman]

My point holds water as long as it's my opinion? As I've said before, a film that features ninjas and takes itself seriously? Silly. That film, to me, doesn't hold water.

So what about "The Matrix"? They trained themselves all those ninja styles of fighting by plugging it into the back of their heads.....but I'm sure you still enjoyed the movie.

There's no such thing as a 100% accurate film, man. That's why they're entertainment. Just like the question of why the dead are returning to life in Romero's films.....it's never explained, but do you need it to be in order to enjoy the film?

[Hawkboy]

My point holds water as long as it's my opinion?


Well you said the the film IS stupid because so and so. That's a lot different than saying I don't like films with Ninjas in them.

[EvilNed]

There were no ninjas in the Matrix. They trained Kung Fu, and believe it or not, that scene was actually quite accurate (except for the crazy **** they were doing).

The only flaw with it, that I can see, is them training kung fu in a Japanese dojo. But they could have just have written it like that.

No ninjas in the Matrix.

Hawkboy: Come again?

[bassman]

There were no ninjas in the Matrix. They trained Kung Fu, and believe it or not, that scene was actually quite accurate (except for the crazy **** they were doing).

The only flaw with it, that I can see, is them training kung fu in a Japanese dojo. But they could have just have written it like that.

No ninjas in the Matrix.

Hawkboy: Come again?

You're missing the point. They learned these ways of fighting by having a plug inserted into the back of their head. That didn't ruin the movie for you but ninjas in "Batman Begins" does?:rolleyes:

[EvilNed]

You're missing the point. They learned these ways of fighting by having a plug inserted into the back of their head. That didn't ruin the movie for you but ninjas in "Batman Begins" does?:rolleyes:

The Matrix is a science fiction film. It's science fiction.

Batman might be a comic book, but the pure notion of having Bruce Wayne be trained by ninjas is just laughable (I mean, just listen to it..). :D Then again, i heard someone say that that's what happened in the comics as well, but I was never really a fan of them.

[bassman]

The Matrix is a science fiction film. It's science fiction.

Batman might be a comic book, but the pure notion of having Bruce Wayne be trained by ninjas is just laughable (I mean, just listen to it..). :D Then again, i heard someone say that that's what happened in the comics as well, but I was never really a fan of them.

Haha, dude. You think "Batman" is non-fiction or something?:lol:

It is what happened in the comics. How else did you think Bruce Wayne learned to fight? I think this was even briefly touched upon in one of Burton's two "Batman" films..

[Hawkboy]

.

Hawkboy: Come again?


Just what I said. You were making statments about the film. Batman begins is ****, not I think Batman Begins is ****. Big difference.

[EvilNed]

Haha, dude. You think "Batman" is non-fiction or something?:lol:

It is what happened in the comics. How else did you think Batman learned to fight?

I don't know, I guess I expected something more clever and not something so stupid. I mean, what kind of solution is that? Bruce Wayne... Trained by NINJAS! Hiii-yaaaa! Ugh...

Hawkboy, I think that when I say something sucks, most people would assume I'm speaking my opinion. It's like saying "Well, that's just your opinion man". No ****, who's else opinion would it be?

[bassman]

I don't know, I guess I expected something more clever and not something so stupid. I mean, what kind of solution is that? Bruce Wayne... Trained by NINJAS! Hiii-yaaaa! Ugh...

Hawkboy, I think that when I say something sucks, most people would assume I'm speaking my opinion. It's like saying "Well, that's just your opinion man". No ****, who's else opinion would it be?

It's pretty believable if you ask me(and just about everyone else that saw the film). Besides, that's basically how the story has gone since the beginning of "Batman".

And one other thing.....they're never referred to as "ninjas" in "Batman Begins". They're members of the "League of Shadows".

[EvilNed]

How is being trained by ninjas believable? I find it ridiculous beyond belief. As I said, I was simply expecting something... more clever. And not such a stupid solution.

Liam Neeson talks about ninjutsu, while being sorrounded by people wearing ninja clothing AND sporting the straight ninja-to sword. I think most people can make the connection. :)

[bassman]

So I'm guessing you're making all these comments because you have some sort of martial arts background? You know the history behind "ninjas" or something? ANYTHING to make your comments credible?

[EvilNed]

So I'm guessing you're making all these comments because you have some sort of martial arts background? You know the history behind "ninjas" or something? ANYTHING to make your comments credible?

Did you even read this thread through? I'm not poking at you or anything, but you should check the first few posts I made in this thread.

EDIT: Almost at the top of the third page.

[bassman]

Did you even read this thread through? I'm not poking at you or anything, but you should check the first few posts I made in this thread.

EDIT: Almost at the top of the third page.

Yes, I have read the page. No, I don't think you're picking at me(why would I care even if you were?).

I'm just having a hard time understanding why you think it takes away from the film. That's all. Just some good ol fashioned debate, my friend. You just seem to have some sort of deep hatred for ninjas or something because out of the 100's of people I've talked to that liked that film, the ninjas were never mentioned.:D

[EvilNed]

There were dozens of films in the 80's that featured Ninjas, and almost all of these didn't take themselves too seriously. The ones that did, were a laughing riot of bad acting, writing and directing. During it's opening, Batman Begins approaches these films in that it, too, takes itself to seriously. Liam Neeson standing around, guarded by NINJAS, and teaching Bruce Wayne the art of the ninja is just... Silly. It took me by surprise, and when these ninjas returned at the end, I was almost laughing out loud.

I mean, while they wrote a new script and tried to make a more realistic approach to the whole Batman legacy, including the new Batmobile, these ninjas truly stand out as a soar thumb. While the film doesn't suck, there are moments of it that are purely ridiculous. All of those moments feature ninjas...

It's like the scene in The Last Samurai where the samurai are attacked by living, breathing and hissing ninjas. Did those guys even OPEN a history book?

[Hawkboy]

Hawkboy, I think that when I say something sucks, most people would assume I'm speaking my opinion. It's like saying "Well, that's just your opinion man". No ****, who's else opinion would it be?

Well Ned you know what the Internet is like, lot's of people think their opinion is fact! I get what you men though.. :)

[DeadJonas190]

The Matrix is a science fiction film. It's science fiction.

Batman might be a comic book, but the pure notion of having Bruce Wayne be trained by ninjas is just laughable (I mean, just listen to it..). :D Then again, i heard someone say that that's what happened in the comics as well, but I was never really a fan of them.

Comic books are a form of science fiction so your point is null and void. I guess you didnt like The Last Samurai because it has ninjas in it. You write like you know about ninjas, so tell us where you gained your education in Ninjitsu ways. I am curious, because as far as I'm concerned, movies are made to entertain, not to please a ninja-hater like yourself.

So, since you know so much about Ninjas and their ways, what is wrong with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie?

[EvilNed]

www.budo.org is the site for the Dojo where I trained Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu for several years. It's located in Gothenburg, Sweden and is the biggest Dojo in Europe.

A film that tries to take itself seriously, and at the same time incorporates ninjas is silly. That's my entire point. How can that be null and void? :)

I'm not trying to convince you here, but I'm pretty sure Hawkboy and Bassman can see my point, whereas you seem to be stuck up on details (Look who's talking, I guess... Silence!)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Here is an excerpt from an article on the oldest living Ninja master.


Ninja is a compound word from the Japanese characters for "stealth" or "endurance" and "person," a reference to their traditional role as spies, mercenaries and assassins working for medieval warlords.

Traditional weaponry such as swords and throwing stars feature prominently is Hatsumi's lessons, as do handclaws for climbing walls, blow darts and chili pepper dust to throw in an opponent's eyes.

But true ninjutsu, Hatsumi says, is self-discipline and balance in the boardroom and the battlefield. It's about mastering one's weaknesses, including laziness and fear, and exploiting a rival's needs, such as sex and pride.

Read the full article here.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14434176.htm

[bassman]

I'm not trying to convince you here, but I'm pretty sure Hawkboy and Bassman can see my point, whereas you seem to be stuck up on details (Look who's talking, I guess... Silence!)

Actually, I don't.

So you've studied some form of martial arts and you have an appreciation for it....but you DON'T want it to be taken seriously in a movie? I mean, "Batman Begins" is probably the only film that I have seen that portrays ninjas the way I have always imagined. They never say anything, they make no sounds, and they do what their master says and when he says it. And while I know nothing about ninjas, I always assumed that they were originally like some form of early army. So the way they form the rows and move on command while Bruce is finishing his training is just like how an army would "fall in line" and follow the general's(or whoever) commands.

Films like "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"(although I enjoyed it) are films where I could see your argument having some credibility. That ninja stuff is ridiculous.....fighting on tops of trees and such.:rolleyes:

It has been a good while since I last watched "Batman Begins"(I might have to check it out this weekend after all this:) ) and I have absolutely no knowledge of any kind of martial arts training or a ninja's way of life.....but the ninjas on "Batman Begins" were probably some of the best I've seen......aside from my beloved "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".:p

[EvilNed]

That's the problem. Portraying ninjas in the way you have always imagined is what creates this obstacle for you, which you cannot overcome. You need to unlearn what you have learned. :)

Ninjas did not dress in black. Ninjas did not run around killing people. Ninjas did not wield ninja-tos. Ninjas didn't do "all those things". Ninjas were spies, that's it.

The ninjas in the Batman film are pure Hollywood ninjas. Fiction. They don't exist, never have.

If you think the ninjas in Batman Begins were some of the best you've ever seen, then you clearly have no idea of what a ninja is.

[bassman]

If you think the ninjas in Batman Begins were some of the best you've ever seen, then you clearly have no idea of what a ninja is.
:rolleyes:
Didn't I say that I knew nothing about ninjas several times throughout that post, numbnuts?

And what obstacle are you talking about? There are no obstacles, here. Obviously you are the one with an obstacle because you have a problem with a group of ninjas that appear in a....say it with me...FICTIONAL film for about 15 minutes...

You sure do seem to think you know all there is to know about ninjas. Have you been in training and now you are a ninja master that knows all and uses his knowledge on an internet message board? Gotsta tell be the TRUTH about ninjas, right?:rolleyes: :lol:

By the way, are the members of The League of Shadows ever refered to as "ninjas" in "Batman Begins"? I'm pretty sure they aren't. It seems like you were the one that labeled them ninjas at the beginning of this thread. Basically they were just trained terrorists with masks....no one ever calls them ninjas.

[EvilNed]

They dress like ninjas. They wear the fictional, legendry ninja equipment. They use ninjutsu.

Even an idiot could figure out what they are.

Go ask anyone, anyone at all who trains martial arts (better yet, Ninjutsu) if they thought the depiction of ninjas in Batman Begins was realistic and they'll laugh right in your face.

I'm not the one making a big deal out of this. You are. I'm just stating my opinion. The idea of ninjas training Bruce Wayne is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What's your problem with that? Why don't you get that?

Also, I'm watching House of the Dead for the first time, so I'm in a bad mood.

[bassman]

I just don't see how you think it detracts from the film.

If ninjas are only "spies".....why then are you learning their fighting style? I didn't realize spies had to fight....that kind of defies the purpose of the action of "spying".

Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway. Fighting is for p*ssies.

[DjfunkmasterG]

They dress like ninjas. They wear the fictional, legendry ninja equipment. They use ninjutsu.

Even an idiot could figure out what they are.

Go ask anyone, anyone at all who trains martial arts (better yet, Ninjutsu) if they thought the depiction of ninjas in Batman Begins was realistic and they'll laugh right in your face.

I'm not the one making a big deal out of this. You are. I'm just stating my opinion. The idea of ninjas training Bruce Wayne is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What's your problem with that? Why don't you get that?

Also, I'm watching House of the Dead for the first time, so I'm in a bad mood.

Ya know NED, you are becoming quite the asshole when someone disagrees with your opinion. The reason you get no respect from me is because you have no respect for anyone else.

[EvilNed]

I just don't see how you think it detracts from the film.

If ninjas are only "spies".....why then are you learning their fighting style? I didn't realize spies had to fight....that kind of defies the purpose of the action of "spying".

Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway. Fighting is for p*ssies.

Well, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is basicly 9 different fighting schools, including the ones from the original ninjutsu. It's the most complete study of ninjutsu you can find, but it also includes some chinese fighting schools. So it's not pure ninja.

The original ninja had 17 different schools, but few of them were meant for spying. Their fighting styles have alot incommon with say, Jiu-Jutsu etc. etc.

I don't train there anymore, mostly because I find japanese martial arts to be a big waste of time. More often than not, they will teach you something they think will work, but in actuallity you're not taught anything of value at all. It's better to train more practical styles, like kickboxing, kungfu or indonesian stuff (but be wary of some korean styles as well).

I've already explained why I think Ninjas in Batman is ridiculous. It's like having ninjas in Kingdom of Heaven, or ninjas in Da Vinci Code. Very out of place, especially for a film that tries to take itself seriously.

And DJ: Look who's talking. :)

[bassman]

Well, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is basicly 9 different fighting schools, including the ones from the original ninjutsu. It's the most complete study of ninjutsu you can find, but it also includes some chinese fighting schools. So it's not pure ninja.

The original ninja had 17 different schools, but few of them were meant for spying. Their fighting styles have alot incommon with say, Jiu-Jutsu etc. etc.

I don't train there anymore, mostly because I find japanese martial arts to be a big waste of time. More often than not, they will teach you something they think will work, but in actuallity you're not taught anything of value at all. It's better to train more practical styles, like kickboxing, kungfu or indonesian stuff (but be wary of some korean styles as well).

I've already explained why I think Ninjas in Batman is ridiculous. It's like having ninjas in Kingdom of Heaven, or ninjas in Da Vinci Code. Very out of place, especially for a film that tries to take itself seriously.

And DJ: Look who's talking. :)

Whatever man, you must be a real "one-with-earth" ninja.....using your training on a computer and all.:lol:

Hiiiii Yah! right? I bet you like the "Power Rangers" because that's more realistic:dead: ...

[EvilNed]

Whatever man, you must be a real "one-with-earth" ninja.....using your training on a computer and all.:lol:

Hiiiii Yah! right? I bet you like the "Power Rangers" because that's more realistic:dead: ...

Using my training on a computer? Whaaat...? :confused:

Altough I agree with the "whatever" part.

[ProfessorChaos]

so i posted on another thread about christian bale in the machinist, and was looking up stuff about the next batman film, then stumbled upon this thread....and wow, you guys sure do like to piss and moan about irrelevant details.;)

back to the real deal: batman begins is WAY better.

michael keaton was not a good batman/bruce wayne, he just didn't seem to get into the part that much. his portrayal seemed too rubbery and rigid, much like the dildo that he comes off as. i was glad to see him go, but then we got kilmer (too gay) and clooney (too clooney). no one has really got the part down, at least until bale.

christian bale really taps into the whole "dark knight" role way better, as he is a superior actor to keaton, kilmer, and clooney. i was a bit put off by the voice, (because all i thought of when hearing it was "man, it sounds like he's about to sh!t in his batsuit....must have forgot to drop a deuce before he suited up!":lol:) but then i read what bale's explanation was. he was trying to convey that batman is bruce's super-dark and rage filled alter ego, so that's why he speaks as if he's about to beat, torture and kill everyone in sight.

the explanation of his origin, training, and equipment was well handled, too (even if it did include guys who may or may not be ninjas, i don't even want to start that discussion up again!). i enjoyed cillian murphy as scarecrow and liam (qui-gon jin dude, forgot his last name) as what's-his-name(bad memory tonight).

and here's where i think my post will draw serious criticism, but fu(k it, i'm gonna say it anyways: i'm really looking forward to the sequel, because i think that heath ledger will be a better joker than jack nicholson was. i had my doubts at first, but after recently seeing this picture http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/heath%20ledger%20joker%20dark%20knight.jpg]
and this one, which is kinda fake looking, but still cool http://www.evilology.net/uploaded/joker2ge1nx.jpg

i can't help but be a little excited. even though he played a gay cowboy in that one movie, he's still a respectable actor who i think will really delve into the psychosis of the joker. he may not be as dedicated as bale is in his acting roles, but he was willing to kiss a freakin dude for brokeback mountain, so he obviously takes his work seriously. that's not to say he's a better actor than jack, but i think he may outshine him in this particular role. i wonder if the origin will be the same (not a big dc comics fan, so don't know real backstory for joker), but i imagine it'll be done much better this time around. after hearing the small chunk of dialog in the teaser trailer, i think that this incarnation of the joker will be much more twisted and evil, unlike nicholson's which was too campy and goofy...which not really nicholson's fault as much as tim burton's.

batman begins was better, the best batman film yet, and the dark knight will kick the bat-sh!t out of any other summer blockbusters in 2008, not just in ticket sales, but also in plot, viewer satisfaction, reviews, etc.

let's just hope they never bring the gay wonder or bat-bitch into this film series.

okay, that's enough typing. sorry to drag this one out of the woods. now you guys can crucify me for my opinion on the joker.

[AcesandEights]

I think you're right on with regards to most of your points there, Professor C.

I'll still crucify you, if you like...ya dirty bastard :lol:

[Terran]

your ok, with the implausable microwave weaponry

I didnt understand why it didnt make people die....if it vaporizes water....what would happen to all the cells in a human body that its almost all water....


Nonetheless I loved the movie

[SRP76]

Yes, Begins was a whole lot better than that sorry movie they made with Nicholson. I always hated that version (not that I really enjoy Begins, either, but it's not as bad).

I was a DC fan when the first flick was announced, so my hopes were too high. All the retconning had just happened, so, when I thought "Batman", I thought "Year One". Not Beetlejuice vs. :"Heeeeeeeeeere's Joker!".

To this day, I can't figure out why they don't just do a film adaptation of Year One. So simple. But, "no, we have to come up with other things, just for the hell of it. It would be too easy to just go with what works".

[_liam_]

nothing will ever match up to the goose bump inducing thrill of reading "year one" or "the killing joke".

"Batman" had fantastic production design, keaton was a good batman, i dont really understand the jack bashing, i thought he was great.

the general "feel" of that film is great also. and that batmobile is gorgeous.

however "Begins" packs more dramatic clout, and in terms of storytelling it is a more complex & satisfying film.

plus it has that bit where the bats swirl around bruce, as he stands up slowly, fearlessly, while that swelling score plays... you know that bit i mean? that's f*cking POWER - you dont get gravity like that in popcorn movies very often.

i have to say i think he did a great job, but i did find bale's batman slightly underwhelming - i mean, bale was BORN to play that character, yet ultimately i found his performance a little flat and lifeless.

although perhaps he was going for the sociopath angle, i dunno.

i always thought the mental illness angle should be played up with batman. he's always portrayed as an upstanding, sane sort of fella - but that's totally missing the point, the man is supposed to be a tortured soul, driven insane by grief and guilt, a hollowed out sociopath driven by vengeance. he needs people to punish, anyone will do.

i like to entertain the idea that if a cop had shot his parents, he'd be slaughtering cops for any excuse he could find

also - is anyone going to cheque out the anime?