Prometheus (Alien Prequel)

[shootemindehead]

I can also go with your idea that its a tool designed to make the purchasing of the bluray/DVD more attractive too!

I love the idea of extended cuts, but to my mind it's only really worked in a couple of instances. 'Aliens', which REALLY benefitted from the extra half hour and the 'Lord of the Rings trilogy'. There have been some awful misfires though. 'The Big Red One' and 'Apocalypse Now Redux' come to mind. They were filled with completely unnecessary additions and it's plain to see why they director cut the out flab in the first place.

A friend of mind told me the other night that he heard that an extended cut of 'Once upon a Time in America' was on the cards...I nearly sprayed guinness all over him. Any more running time on that film and you could kiss half your away. It's like 5 bleedin hours long already!

[bassman]

I really wanted to like 'Prometheus', but there were just too many stupid moments in it. The "alien abortion" scene was just ridiculous. To have Noomi Rapace cut through her skin, her muscle layers and into her womb...remove an alien squid, suture her up in the most violent way and then have her run around like nothing happened was just thick.


That scene is very important to a central theme of the movie, imo - It's not an abortion, it's a caesarean. Shaw allows the creature to live and the imagery of "the creator" with his/her abdomen sliced open is important to the film. The titan Prometheus, after having angered the gods by giving humans fire, was punished by having his abdomen tore open and his liver eaten out every day by an eagle. Just as Prometheus was torn open after having given life to a new creature, so was Shaw.

Also tying into this theme, you have the mural in the chamber that shows an Engineer with his abdomen open with a creature beside him and also the Engineer that the Alien-like creature bursts from after the credits. There have even been suggestions by some(including Ridley Scott himself) that Christianity also plays a part in all this. The dead engineers that were on their way to destroy Earth were carbon dated at 2,000 years. That fits in nicely with the time frame of a certain crucifixion of a "life-giver" that also involved an abdomen torn open by a spear. Ridley Scott has hinted that this COULD be a reason why the Engineers want to destroy the human race. Could Christ with all of his "miracles" been sent as a last ditch effort by the Engineers to save the human race but the human race destroyed him, thus providing the engineers with reason to destroy us?

Other religious themes include it being Christmas Day, Shaw's "virgin" birth(she physically couldn't become pregnant), her very name being Elisabeth("And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren"), and not to forget that every other portion of the movie deals with self sacrifice for the good of others.

Back to your original point of the C-section....I think it was very important for the reasons above. And you say she walks around after like nothing happened, but she appeared to be in a GREAT deal of pain to me. She also gives herself multiple injections that we are led to believe are painkillers.

Sorry for rambling on into other subjects, some of which will be considered silly by some, but it's easy to do with science fiction I suppose.

[Danny]

That scene is very important to a central theme of the movie, imo - It's not an abortion, it's a caesarean. Shaw allows the creature to live and the imagery of "the creator" with his/her abdomen sliced open is important to the film. The titan Prometheus, after having angered the gods by giving humans fire, was punished by having his abdomen tore open and his liver eaten out every day by an eagle. Just as Prometheus was torn open after having given life to a new creature, so was Shaw.

Also tying into this theme, you have the mural in the chamber that shows an Engineer with his abdomen open with a creature beside him and also the Engineer that the Alien-like creature bursts from after the credits. There have even been suggestions by some(including Ridley Scott himself) that Christianity also plays a part in all this. The dead engineers that were on their way to destroy Earth were carbon dated at 2,000 years. That fits in nicely with the time frame of a certain crucifixion of a "life-giver" that also involved an abdomen torn open by a spear. Ridley Scott has hinted that this COULD be a reason why the Engineers want to destroy the human race. Could Christ with all of his "miracles" been sent as a last ditch effort by the Engineers to save the human race but the human race destroyed him, thus providing the engineers with reason to destroy us?

Other religious themes include it being Christmas Day, Shaw's "virgin" birth(she physically couldn't become pregnant), her very name being Elisabeth("And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren"), and not to forget that every other portion of the movie deals with self sacrifice for the good of others.

Back to your original point of the C-section....I think it was very important for the reasons above. And you say she walks around after like nothing happened, but she appeared to be in a GREAT deal of pain to me. She also gives herself multiple injections that we are led to believe are painkillers.

Sorry for rambling on into other subjects, some of which will be considered silly by some, but it's easy to do with science fiction I suppose.

Heres the thing. If you have to explain a plot as 'well its basically all references' that is not a credit to the film. A film which i would say after a second viewing is beautifully shot, terribly written. Plus if it wasnt a 'legacy film' attached to the far superior alien it wouldn't get all the 'no the plot makes sense if i make up all this stuff that might be an explanation thats not part of the film at all' reasoning to try and make it work. Because if you need to do that to begin with then its a case of bad writing. Not to nock whats on the whole a fun ride, but avatar had better writing.

[bassman]

I disagree. Sort of. There could have been more answers written into the film itself, but thinking beyond what's laid out in front of the audience is half the fun of science fiction. I'm not saying Prometheus is perfect, but asking questions without giving direct answers has always been a staple of the genre. Hell....just look at Scott's Blade Runner.

Not only that, but I feel a lot of these things aren't necessarily references, but they're all plainly woven into the film and can easily be found. If you're watching close enough, you see them. The blatant reference to Prometheus in the title and the plot doesn't even need to be mentioned. It's not referenced or implied, it's shoved right into your face before you even see the movie. The trailers explained that story. The Christianity elements are a bit more subtle, but I still believe they are plainly put there for the audience to find and put together. You don't have to know any "reference", really. It's christianity - everyone knows of it even if they don't believe it.

You say these things are flaws in the writing, but I actually see them as great additions. Not every film has to spell out everything for the tweens. And i'm sorry dude....but Avatar has better writing? I'm not one to jump on the Avatar bashing bandwagon, but what are you smoking and where can I get some?

[shootemindehead]

That scene is very important to a central theme of the movie, imo - It's not an abortion, it's a caesarean. Shaw allows the creature to live and the imagery of "the creator" with his/her abdomen sliced open is important to the film. The titan Prometheus, after having angered the gods by giving humans fire, was punished by having his abdomen tore open and his liver eaten out every day by an eagle. Just as Prometheus was torn open after having given life to a new creature, so was Shaw.

Also tying into this theme, you have the mural in the chamber that shows an Engineer with his abdomen open with a creature beside him and also the Engineer that the Alien-like creature bursts from after the credits. There have even been suggestions by some(including Ridley Scott himself) that Christianity also plays a part in all this. The dead engineers that were on their way to destroy Earth were carbon dated at 2,000 years. That fits in nicely with the time frame of a certain crucifixion of a "life-giver" that also involved an abdomen torn open by a spear. Ridley Scott has hinted that this COULD be a reason why the Engineers want to destroy the human race. Could Christ with all of his "miracles" been sent as a last ditch effort by the Engineers to save the human race but the human race destroyed him, thus providing the engineers with reason to destroy us?

Other religious themes include it being Christmas Day, Shaw's "virgin" birth(she physically couldn't become pregnant), her very name being Elisabeth("And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren"), and not to forget that every other portion of the movie deals with self sacrifice for the good of others.

Back to your original point of the C-section....I think it was very important for the reasons above. And you say she walks around after like nothing happened, but she appeared to be in a GREAT deal of pain to me. She also gives herself multiple injections that we are led to believe are painkillers.

Sorry for rambling on into other subjects, some of which will be considered silly by some, but it's easy to do with science fiction I suppose.

Aye, I understand the throwback to the Greek/Roman myths, but the scene is still as dumb as a box of bricks. My real irk, is having her jaunt about after such brutal and invasive "surgery". That really was just silly. She may have given herself painkillers etc, but she physically would not have been able to move after that ripping. It just either didn't need to be there, or it should have been written much, much better.

[Danny]

I disagree. Sort of. There could have been more answers written into the film itself, but thinking beyond what's laid out in front of the audience is half the fun of science fiction.

no its not, that what makes something space fantasy. Science fiction is called that because it uses 'grounded and explained' plot devices that are fully explained- hence science, but also dont necessarily have to exist- hence science fiction, not science fact. Its a specific type of film where, even if its asspulled bullshit, there is rhyme and reason that is explained. its why things like star wars are called 'space opera' instead of science fiction. Because you can explain the force with a half shrug and 'eh'.
This was billed as science fiction, hard sci fi in the words of lindeloff.
Well setting it on a another planet doesnt make it hard sci-fi if nothing has any cause and effect. Pretty much everything bar the space ships and the one robot in this movie is pretty much "a wizard did it" in terms of resolution. Why does X exist? they wont ever tell you and it doesnt serve any purpose bar being in the movie for the sake of it, so a wizard did it. Why X do Y when they are meant to be scientists not roughnecks? a wizard did it.

There is a world of difference between 'enjoy the mystery' - which ALIEN did absolutely fine, hell its why we watched this at all, and this.

A mystery done right is just that. Its a mystery, it draws you in. You want to know more and that is exactly the point.
With plot holes like these they just are. Because of the writers incompetence. Not for mystery, or for provoking intelligent self reflection upon finishing the film. The writer just put down some 'oh man wouldn't it be cool if-' plot points from a 1980's slasher movie only there wasnt any tension to back it up.

Theres intrigue, then there is the story just not making sense.

-- -------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------


Aye, I understand the throwback to the Greek/Roman myths, but the scene is still as dumb as a box of bricks. My real irk, is having her jaunt about after such brutal and invasive "surgery". That really was just silly. She may have given herself painkillers etc, but she physically would not have been able to move after that ripping. It just either didn't need to be there, or it should have been written much, much better.

right off the top of my head:
-make the captain get infected by the android instead.
-he already sleeps with therons character so that solves itself
-the med bay was hers so naturally she would go there.
-she dies as the alien 'births itself', waiting for the female lead to find unawares, giving it a greater shock value.
-the captain is clearly infected and dying so therefore his suicide run at the end is more natural.

bam, simple. gives theron a reason to exist and doesnt need all the 'there is no way she could walk after that bollock'. I mean she only existed to be squashed and eat up scene runtime anyway.

[bassman]

no its not, that what makes something space fantasy. Science fiction is called that because it uses 'grounded and explained' plot devices that are fully explained

I'm going to have to disagree, sir. This may be the "official" definition that some film school teacher would use, but most great science fictions do not treat the audience like teenagers and spell out every detail. Half the fun of scifi is the mystery and questions raised.







Ridley Scott is still saying that a sequel was always planned and he sounds like he truly intends to make it:


"From the very beginning, I was working from a premise that lent itself to a sequel. I really don't want to meet God in the first one. I want to leave it open to [Dr. Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace)] saying, 'I don't want to go back to where I came from. I want to go where they came from.'"

"Because [the Engineers] are such aggressive f*ckers, I always had it in there that the God-like creature that you will see actually is not so nice, and is certainly not God. I'd love to explore where the [Dr. Shaw] goes next and what does she do when she gets there, because if it is paradise, paradise can not be what you think it is. Paradise has a connotation of being extremely sinister and ominous."


I would probably rather see this than another Blade Runner.

[krakenslayer]

I'm going to have to disagree, sir. This may be the "official" definition that some film school teacher would use, but most great science fictions do not treat the audience like teenagers and spell out every detail. Half the fun of scifi is the mystery and questions raised.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Take the archetypal science-fiction film of the late 20th century - 2001: A Space Odyssey - virtually nothing is explained about what's going on in that movie. The difference between sci-fi and fantasy is not whether things are explained, but whether they can be explained. Or to put it another way, whether the the more fantastical plot elements are treated as being truly mystical and supernatural (for example, "the force"), or instead as things which, however outlandish, can supposedly be related in some way to the observable laws of science as they exist in our universe (regardless of how abstract/advanced the science, how poor the writers' grasp of real science might be, or whether or not the answers are actually given). Thus in 2001, even though we are never fully educated as to the nature of the obelisk, we do come to understand that it is an artifact of alien technology, albeit one so far in advance of our own that its purpose and structure is completely incomprehensible to our comparatively low intellect, and this treatment is what makes it a science-fictional creation, as opposed to fantasy one. If that seems pretty nebulous and vague, then that's because it is: the difference is purely philosophical.

[Danny]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Take the archetypal science-fiction film of the late 20th century - 2001: A Space Odyssey - virtually nothing is explained about what's going on in that movie. The difference between sci-fi and fantasy is not whether things are explained, but whether they can be explained. Or to put it another way, whether the the more fantastical plot elements are treated as being truly mystical and supernatural (for example, "the force"), or instead as things which, however outlandish, can supposedly be related in some way to the observable laws of science as they exist in our universe (regardless of how abstract/advanced the science, how poor the writers' grasp of real science might be, or whether or not the answers are actually given). Thus in 2001, even though we are never fully educated as to the nature of the obelisk, we do come to understand that it is an artifact of alien technology, albeit one so far in advance of our own that its purpose and structure is completely incomprehensible to our comparatively low intellect, and this treatment is what makes it a science-fictional creation, as opposed to fantasy one. If that seems pretty nebulous and vague, then that's because it is: the difference is purely philosophical.

I'm not talk the vague mysteries that act as end goals here, otherwise id be bitching about the whole 'black goo' scene from the start. I mean the hows and whys that push it along. Basic story progression and coherent reasoning in its development. Like in 2001 HAL losing his mind. It is part of the narrative structure for a clear and concise reason. Its gets things to a point and makes sense in the films universe without you going 'well how the hell did X happen?' later. not things you 'need to read in on rather than getting it spelled out' like some kind of subtextual content you are expected to read into but the written narrative equivalents or jump cuts with nothing in between where there should be some form of plot to fill that gap.

[krakenslayer]

I'm not talk the vague mysteries that act as end goals here, otherwise id be bitching about the whole 'black goo' scene from the start. I mean the hows and whys that push it along. Basic story progression and coherent reasoning in its development. Like in 2001 HAL losing his mind. It is part of the narrative structure for a clear and concise reason. Its gets things to a point and makes sense in the films universe without you going 'well how the hell did X happen?' later. not things you 'need to read in on rather than getting it spelled out' like some kind of subtextual content you are expected to read into but the written narrative equivalents or jump cuts with nothing in between where there should be some form of plot to fill that gap.

What you are talking about, though, are plot holes. Plot holes are not a deliberate feature of any genre, sci-fi, fantasy, drama, whatever. Anyway, there are some plot holes in Prometheus, it's far from being a perfect film, structurally speaking (I get the sense that has been trimmed for running time: why did no one chase Noomi into Weyland's quarters when she was running for the autosurgeon?), but some people seem to be confusing these few small gaps in logic with larger, dramatic witholdings (why did David spike Noomi's squeeze?), and bigger things that are deliberately left unexplained both to promote thought/discussion and to leave room for a sequel (why do the Engineers hate us now?). Again, I am not calling this a classics, but beneath its faults and people's misunderstandings, there is a greatly enjoyable, vaguely-intelligent sci-fi movie that isn't all about the 'splosions, and that's a rarity these days.

[Neil]

Aye, I understand the throwback to the Greek/Roman myths, but the scene is still as dumb as a box of bricks. My real irk, is having her jaunt about after such brutal and invasive "surgery". That really was just silly. She may have given herself painkillers etc, but she physically would not have been able to move after that ripping. It just either didn't need to be there, or it should have been written much, much better.

I agree 100%. If the machine had been seen to be, or announced it was, doing a muscle reconnection etc etc. But instead it just implied it threw a few staples in her, and off she went for the rest of the film. 5 seconds more screen time and a bit of thought with the script could have solved this!

-- -------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

**SPOILERS**

A couple of things that frustrated me:-
1) The ship was unnecessarily huge! There seemed to be huge amounts of wasted space everywhere, which all equates to weight, which all means more fuel, especially when landing on a planet!
2) So they have to leave two crew mates in the alien structure over night... There's detections of movement... And no one cares? So much so that they leave them unattended over night whilst they get killed?
3) All that technology and there's no recordings of the unattended pair of crew mates trying to contact the ship? No video footage either? They couldn't spage a few meg of ram to record this stuff 24/7?
4) No location trackers on their crew mates? ie: They have to search for them (after they've been killed)? Really?
5) Seemingly little or no amazement at the first encounter with alien life. The most historic moment in human history and we get... Myeh!
6) Guy Pearce! Big casting mistake! It looked daft!
7) After David infected Logan, half a day later he basically immediately asks Elizabeth, "did you have sex?"... oh and look, you're pregnant!? What are the chances of that?! Did he give them both aphrodisiacs too? And why is sperm more important than saliva? He didn't ask had they kissed? No, he new exactly the right thing to ask straight out... Hmmm!
8) The comic book run away from the rolling alien ship after it crashed. You can get away from the thing by rolling 10ft to the right (as demonstrated).... But no... Let's all run hundreds of feet in the direction it's falling so it can still crush us.


None-the-less, I enjoyed the flick, and thought the visuals (in 3D) were amazing. Would be interested in seeing them in 2D now!

[shootemindehead]

4) No location trackers on their crew mates? ie: They have to search for them (after they've been killed)? Really?

It's gas isn't it. We have that technology now for christ's sake. Not only that, one of the guys wears glasses. Glasses! I would have thought that by 2090 wotsit, we would have sorted out laser eye surgery to a relatively simple process. Sure, I know people now with nearly 20-20 vision, when not 3 years ago they were lumbered with Heinrich Himmler specs.


6) Guy Pearce! Big casting mistake! It looked daft!

I thought his makeup wasn't bad, but they forgot his hands and feet. Really...that's day 1 stuff. Dick Smith came up with a simple formula for aging. It's a solution that drys the skin surface and wrinkes it. Simple, but effective. I don't know why they just couldn't have hired an old guy for the part.


8) The comic book run away from the rolling alien ship after it crashed. You can get away from the thing by rolling 10ft to the right (as demonstrated).... But no... Let's all run hundreds of feet in the direction it's falling so it can still crush us.

I LOL'd and Sadfaced...all at the same time.

[bassman]

A lengthy look into the creation of the special effects. It's a good watch if you're into these kidns of things:

veoWdXJ9KNs


Also some interesting photos from the opening of the film. Something for the extended cut?
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3706/30342010150887073831376.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525799_403923966312982_110349723_n.jpg

[Neil]

^^ Oooohs at image!

[MinionZombie]

I'll be sure to check that video out. :)

As for the "extended cut", I saw a video on Collider and I couldn't decipher whether it was going to only be 20-30 mins of deleted scenes on the home video release, or those PLUS an extra 20 minutes in a new cut of the movie itself. Scott's chosen words seemed to rather obfuscate the issue. :confused:

[Neil]

Thinking back over the film, I do have very mixed feelings about it. Overall I did enjoy it. There's some great bold science fiction in it, but there's also some pretty daft roll your eye moments that burst the bubble every now and then. Could have been truly great, but as it is, it's good. :)

I hope some extra footage might join some of the dots togethor better and make it an even grander story telling experience... But it won't be able to get rid of some of those needless eye rolls.

[MinionZombie]

One deleted scene I'm rather looking forward to seeing is...

The one Scott spoke of where Shaw has an axe fight with the Engineer - it totally makes sense why they didn't include it, from Scott's explanation, but I still would really like to see it. When the Engineer burst into that escape pod and chased Shaw, that - for me at least - was the scariest part of the movie, because you really got a sense of how huge and powerful the Engineers were ... and I did think at the time "shouldn't there be a fight scene here?", but Scott's explanation that fighting this huge beast of a thing with a conventional human weapon dimished the might of the Engineer makes total sense. Strange how they didn't figure that out long before they even shot it, mind, as they could have re-worked the scene...

-- -------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

Found this chucklesome .gif that someone made regarding the role of David.

http://i.imgur.com/3MenG.gif

[Danny]

welp i was dragged into seeing this again with some mates who hadnt seen it before. They knew nothing about it, i said nothing to them to colour their opinion because i like to watch my friends reactions if i know some big scenes coming up and i was surprised, even for all the complaints i had, that with 30 minutes to go they all just stood up and said 'this is fucking asinine' and walked out. What was more surprising is 3 other groups of people all left AT THE SAME TIME when theron interacts with the captain and ends the scene with that atrocious writing.
Bear in mind im the sort of guy who will sit through any bad film to the end- the only exception being that piece of dogshit the lawnmower man- and i've never walked out on any film before. Hell ive never seen walk outs before but in this one showing i saw about 15 people leave muttering how terrible the story was. I cannot recall EVER seeing that kind of dramatic reaction during a film that has half an hour or more left before.

Overall i think theres 3 kinds of reactions to prometheus.
1: People who love the alien films can overlook the terrible writing in favour of the gorgeous camerawork, set design and fassbenders performance.
2: people who love the alien films and consider it a travesty with things like the 'Johnny knoxville in his old man make up in jackass' guy pierce cameo and its myriad plot holes being completely unignorable and rendering the film garbage.
3: people who have never seen alien and dont see what the fuss is about either way.

Like i said before. its a 'legacy' film that cannot escape its origins and they really colour the viewers reception for good or bad.

[Neil]

Can't understand why people would leave? It's hardly that bad surely? But there are a couple of very silly/dumb bits of the script, which given the high level of scifi it's trying to reach, really stand out!

TBH, the script just wasn't up to it!? ie: It was trying to be big bold scifi, which means there shouldn't be daft/silly action in places.

[rongravy]

I finally saw Alien for the first time the other day. I know, I know...
What cave have I been hiding in all this time?
Pretty decent, and the commentary was enlightening during a rewatch.
My kid wants to take me to see this tomorrow but I'm going to get superbaked first.

[Neil]

I finally saw Alien for the first time the other day. I know, I know...
What cave have I been hiding in all this time?
Pretty decent, and the commentary was enlightening during a rewatch.
My kid wants to take me to see this tomorrow but I'm going to get superbaked first.For me, the best of all the Alien films is Cameron's. Alien is of course a great flick, and ground breaking in many ways. But Aliens is just such an intelligent and solid story, backed by incredible film making, it just takes the crown (for me).

[MinionZombie]

Out of them all, Aliens is also the one for me too, with Alien a close second.

I personally don't get the level of some of the bitching coming from some folks about Prometheus though. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'll be pre-ordering the Blu-Ray. Clearly a divisive movie, mind.

As for walk outs - I saw that when I went to see Land of the Dead and Diary of the Dead. In the former, there was two blokes and a woman (both in their mid-to-late 30s, I'd say), and clearly they couldn't get in to see Revolver (the new Guy Ritchie movie at the time), and as soon as the gore really started flying about half-way into the movie, the woman got up and fucked off with the two blokes in-two.

With Diary of the Dead, there was me, a couple, and another bloke in the screening (this was like 2pm on a Friday, mind you), and the one bloke down the front sodded off about half way in ... although I'm not sure if he was someone who worked there. The couple hated the flick and were going to demand their money back. :lol:

[bassman]

I personally don't get the level of some of the bitching coming from some folks about Prometheus though.

Just for kicks, look at the IMDB board for the film. So many threads about how Prometheus is the "worst movie of all time". They're quite funny. I've seen similar discussions on other forums, as well. The movie definitely has it's flaws, but I believe it's the current "cool to hate" film. Most people don't give it a fair shake and just bash it entirely because it was a highly anticipated film.

[MinionZombie]

Just for kicks, look at the IMDB board for the film. So many threads about how Prometheus is the "worst movie of all time". They're quite funny. I've seen similar discussions on other forums, as well. The movie definitely has it's flaws, but I believe it's the current "cool to hate" film. Most people don't give it a fair shake and just bash it entirely because it was a highly anticipated film.

Cue HPOTDers taking this comment entirely out of context and complaining that 'people aren't allowed to criticise a movie anymore/have a dissenting opinion'... :lol::p:lol:

But I know what you mean, I've seen some of it out there too, and there's definitely an air of "cool to hate" about this flick among the tosswank hipster set and general movie moaners.

Also interesting that Randy Pitchford (of Gearbox Games - who are pimping Colonial Marines at the moment) totally missed that Prometheus isn't set on LV-426, despite seemingly being quite the Aliens nerd. I've seen more than one interview with him from E3 where he speaks of being able to go into the derelict 'from Prometheus' ... no, the derelict was from Alien and Aliens, the ship in Prometheus is an entirely different ship (of the same design, no doubt part of a fleet used by the engineers generally) on an entirely different planet ... ... that confusion (in spite of the fact that LV-223 is shown on-screen quite clearly when they arrive in the movie) really irks me, I have to say.

[Danny]

Just for kicks, look at the IMDB board-

Why do you hate yourself? :lol:

[Neil]

Also interesting that Randy Pitchford (of Gearbox Games - who are pimping Colonial Marines at the moment) totally missed that Prometheus isn't set on LV-426, despite seemingly being quite the Aliens nerd. I've seen more than one interview with him from E3 where he speaks of being able to go into the derelict 'from Prometheus' ... no, the derelict was from Alien and Aliens, the ship in Prometheus is an entirely different ship (of the same design, no doubt part of a fleet used by the engineers generally) on an entirely different planet ... ... that confusion (in spite of the fact that LV-223 is shown on-screen quite clearly when they arrive in the movie) really irks me, I have to say.
This was another tiny thing that annoyed me. In Prometheus, when they said they were going to LV-223 I interpreted this as the same planet (moon) as Alien/Aliens as I could remember "LV" but not the specific number. So it confused me and threw me. Indeed why even start it with "LV" risking this confusion. Why wasn't the destination "PD-223" or "QX-1G" or something so as to in no way risk confusing it being the same as the location of Alien/Aliens?

[MinionZombie]

This was another tiny thing that annoyed me. In Prometheus, when they said they were going to LV-223 I interpreted this as the same planet (moon) as Alien/Aliens as I could remember "LV" but not the specific number. So it confused me and threw me. Indeed why even start it with "LV" risking this confusion. Why wasn't the destination "PD-223" or "QX-1G" or something so as to in no way risk confusing it being the same as the location of Alien/Aliens?

No doubt "LV" stands for something, but I can't find it online, and clearly it'll tie-in to a sequel down the road where they explore more of this world pre-Alien.

[bassman]

I've read that you can apparently see the title of "LV-426" on one of the ship's monitors as it enters the planet's atmosphere. Did anyone notice this? Intentional or mistake?

[shootemindehead]

Never mind LV-4 blah ds blah...the only reason the film has anything to do with the Alien franchise at all is to get a few more bums on seats. The producers suspected (quite rightly) that there would probably be less interest in a straight non-'Alien franchise' "origin of the species" story and zero interest in an Alien sequel after the utterly wretched 'Alien Resurection', so they tacked on the "Space Jockey" as "Engineers" malarkey and while it's not the "worst film ever made", it does contain some really stupid characters, scenarios and scenes that deflates the whole project.

I don't hate the film, but it is a rather forgettable piece of trash dressed up in fancy clothes, with a single stand out performance from Fassbender. I certainly don't consider it part of the Alien franchise, which for me remains 'Alien', 'Aliens' and 'Alien3'.

The worst thing about 'Prometheus' is that it could have been a fine film, on its own merit without the "Alien franchise" shoehorned into it and some simple prudence on the idiotic parts of the script. As it stands, it's just a below average, uncomfortable, ill-fitting, forced semi-prequel to a great film.

[krakenslayer]

No doubt "LV" stands for something, but I can't find it online, and clearly it'll tie-in to a sequel down the road where they explore more of this world pre-Alien.

Could be wrong, but I'd just assumed that, in some future method of stellar classification (focused on space navigation as opposed to astronomy as our current systems), the LV would designate a star system - in this case Zeta Reticuli - the 4 (or 2) would designate the parent planet (in both cases, an enormous gas giant) in sequence starting with the closest to the star, and the 26 (or 23) would designate the specific satellite of that planet. Twenty-six and twenty-three might seem like awfully high numbers, but if you consider that, in our own system, Saturn has 62 confirmed moons and Jupiter 49 (with several more awaiting official status), ranging from asteroid-like rocks to planet-sized bodies with full atmospheres, it actually seems quite reasonable.

The LV thing didn't come into play until the second film (interesting that Ridley is using elements from Cameron's film, as it goes some way to confirming that Aliens remains future canon to Prometheus's universe), and according to some accounts online, Cameron has said he just wanted it to sound line some kind of technical navigational notation, and the letters LV apparently don't stand for anything in particular.

[rongravy]

Saw it tonight. I liked it just fine, but it had a few long boring stretches. Can't say it was great, but it wasn't crap either. They could've cut some parts out.

[SymphonicX]

I thought actually it wasn't nearly as fleshed out as it should have been.

I loved the opening 30 seconds - the Engineer on that waterfall. The place just looked so bleak, so gritty...I felt from that moment that I was truly on a hostile alien world - it was such a textured scene, so blatantly beautiful.

The story I felt was fragmented and unrealised - the whole "twist" was a bit shit, that it was essentially an old man's quest for immortality. Worse still they get a young guy to play him, and don't show him as a young man - just cast an old man!!

The design on the film was amazing, the atmosphere was unbelievable. Like many Ridley Scott movies in fact....

[Neil]

I felt from that moment that I was truly on a hostile alien world.But it was (almost certainly) Earth? :)

[MinionZombie]

But it was (almost certainly) Earth? :)

Aye, that's exactly what I took it to be.

One of the engineers is killed with that thing, and basically he becomes 'Adam' as his DNA begins its long journey through our world to create mankind. It makes me wonder - did the Engineers create us to ultimately be test subjects for various intentions?

[Neil]

^^ Suspect the directors (extended) cut might put more meat on these bones!

[bassman]

It should come as no surprise because they were talking about a sequel before the first film was even released, but THR (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/summer-movie-franchise-avengers-snow-white-magic-mike-356583) is reporting that Fox already has the ball rolling for a 2014 or 2015 release and looking at different writers:


The studio's big summer bet was Ridley Scott's Prometheus, June's sort-of Alien prequel. The $130 million-budgeted film grossed a solid but not spectacular $303 million globally, putting it right on the franchise bubble. Fox confirms to THR that Scott and the studio actively are pushing ahead with a follow-up (stars Michael Fassbender and Noomi Rapace are signed) and are talking to new writers because Prometheus co-scribe Damon Lindelof might not be available. "Ridley is incredibly excited about the movie, but we have to get it right. We can't rush it," says Fox president of production Emma Watts, who also has overseen the successful reboots of the X-Men and Planet of the Apes franchises. A Prometheus sequel would be released in 2014 or 2015.

[bassman]

Writer Jon Spaihts revealed some of his original ideas before Lindelof was brought in. I found most of it to be quite interesting and possibly better than the film we have.


On the original medpod sequence:

"One of the things I realised was that we hadn't seen anyone survive a classic Alien chest bursting. And I was really intrigued by the notion that a character might be infected by the parasite and know that it was coming, know they had a timeframe of a few hours, and that we would have set up previously a nearly omnipotent medical device, designed to extend life for explorers in foreign places. Our heroine would have a short time to get to the machine and extract the thing inside her. It was a very gory sequence and it plays out very much like the sequence in the film. The main difference is in choreography. At the end of the sequence as I first conceived it, the heroine manages to get the creature extracted from her and it is expelled from the pod and she's sealed inside, whereas in the final film it goes the other way.
Then she lapses in and out of consciousness for a number of hours as the machine puts her back together. As she comes back to consciousness, she sees the thing growing in the cabin outside and even killing people. So by the time she emerges from the pod eight hours later, the thing is abroad in the ship and big enough to be a huge danger. That was the original conception of the medpod scene."

On the inclusion of facehuggers and the motives of David:

"I did have facehuggers in my original draft. David, as he began to get fascinated by the science of the Engineers, doesn't deliberately contaminate Holloway with a drop of black liquid. Instead, Holloway hubristically removes his helmet in the chamber, is knocked unconscious, facehugged and wakes up not knowing what had been done to him, and stumbles back into the ship. In my draft, he returns to his cabin, is embraced by Shaw, who is delighted to see him having feared that he had died, and the two of them make love. And it's while they're making love that he bursts and dies. So that lovemaking sequence echoed my original lovemaking sequence where he explodes! It was messy.
Subsequently, David, fascinated by these creatures, begins delaying the mission and going off the reservation on his own, essentially because he thinks he really belongs with the Engineers. They're smart enough and sophisticated enough, great enough, to be his peers. He's harboring a deep-seated contempt for his human makers. So at one point Shaw goes to stop him and David ties her up and deliberately exposes her to a facehugger. He caresses an egg open and out comes a facehugger. David doesn't smell like a person - his breath isn't moist - so he can handle the thing like a kitten. It doesn't want him; it's not interested. But then he exposes it to her and it goes for her like a shot. He toys with her for a bit and then lets it take her. That, in my draft, was how Shaw was implanted with the parasite that she had to remove with the medpod sequence."

On a potential trilogy:

"I did have a plan for multiple films and the conversations I had with Ridley was about a new franchise, from the beginning. We talked about a possible trilogy, or a duology, but more often as a trilogy. And I did have pretty broad notions as to how we were going to get from this world to the original Alien - the baton pass, closing the circle, if you will. So yes, I did have plans for two other films. I came up with an even more twisted sequence than the Medpod, but I cannot tell you what happens...
My vision of the trilogy would have involved the arrival of the Yutani Company and a couple of other major plays around the Engineers themselves: the revelation of an additional grand Engineer design, and the possibility of seeking an Engineer homeworld. That shot of the ship flying at the end offers a lot of creative ways to play with this. But it feels like it brackets you into the search for the Engineer homeworld and home civilisation. That's an interesting challenge."


And just for kicks - Honest Trailers' Prometheus
RBaKqOMGPWc

[Neil]

^^ Nice!

[shootemindehead]

Naomi Rapeface

I so feckin LOL'd

I've seen 'Prometheus' about three times now...and I still cannot enjoy it. It really is a dumbass film.

[bassman]

It definitely has it's flaws, but I don't think the sum of those flaws totally ruin the film as a whole. Even with it's faults, it's still one of the most well crafted science fiction films in years. Certainly miles ahead of Resurrection and the Alien vs Predator films that came before it.

[shootemindehead]

Oh I agree Bassy, it's miles ahead of 'Alien Resurrection' (Thanks Joss Whedon!), but strangely enough, I sorta enjoyed Alien vs Predator'.....???

[MinionZombie]

strangely enough, I sorta enjoyed Alien vs Predator'.....???

*cursor hovers over the ban hammer*

Just give me a reason not to... :shifty::elol::shifty:

...

:p

The honest trailer for Prometheus did make me lol alright, and yes there are legitimate "erm, but what about?" moments in the plot, but I very much enjoyed the hell out of it. I've got the special edition 3-disc blu-ray on its way and I can't wait to dig into the hours of special features (including a 3hr40min making of!!! :hyper:). Some gripes that folks had with it can easily be explained, or cast aside as inconsequential cool-to-hate tosserisms, but as I've said, yes, there are legit issues with the film - none that render it pish though. I'm very much looking forward to a sequel - but a little more attention paid to "but what about?" questions regarding plot development would be welcome.

[bassman]

After spending hours ripping through the blu ray last night, I would say this is quite possibly the best Blu Ray of the year. The picture/sound is phenomenal and the nearly four hour "The Furious Gods" documentary is amazing. If you even slightly enjoyed Prometheus and occasionally check out documentaries, this set is a must.

I've only listened to half of Scott's commentary. His commentaries are usually very insightful and this one is no different, but he does occasionally slip into the Schwarzenneger mode of just describing what's on screen. I've yet to listen to the writers' commentary but i'm very much looking forward to it.

In all, I say this set is definitely worth a purchase. Even for fans that found the film to be mediocre. Hell....I felt like I enjoyed the film even more on this blu ray than I did in theater. It's unfortunate that the best version to purchase must come with the 3D Blu Ray(4 disc set in US, 3 disc in UK, iirc), but for a few extra bucks the features are worth it.

[Neil]

Was it the extended cut? If so did that offer anything?

[shootemindehead]

*cursor hovers over the ban hammer*

Just give me a reason not to... :shifty::elol::shifty:

...

:p

Go on ban me!!!!!!

I liked 'John Carter of Mars' too.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with me lately.

[AcesandEights]

I liked 'John Carter of Mars' too.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with me lately.

Time to face facts, Shootem'. You've fallen in with a bad crowd: us.

Wanna go see the new Paranormal Activity with me?

[bassman]

Was it the extended cut? If so did that offer anything?

There is currently no extended version on the market from what I understand. There are lots of deleted scenes on the 3D Blu Ray release, but none that are edited back into the film. They may release an extended version in the future, Scott has done that several times in the past, but I seem to remember reading that he won't be doing that with Prometheus.

[MinionZombie]

Go on ban me!!!!!!

I liked 'John Carter of Mars' too.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with me lately.

It's official, you've gone barmy. :lol: Somebody fetch me that straight jacket...


Time to face facts, Shootem'. You've fallen in with a bad crowd: us.

Wanna go see the new Paranormal Activity with me?

You're part of the problem, Aces ... part of the problem. :D


There is currently no extended version on the market from what I understand. There are lots of deleted scenes on the 3D Blu Ray release, but none that are edited back into the film. They may release an extended version in the future, Scott has done that several times in the past, but I seem to remember reading that he won't be doing that with Prometheus.

Something like 37 minutes of deleted scenes from what I've read. Some have pondered that maybe there will be no extended versions, others have, but it seems that they've really gone all-out with this current Blu-Ray set, which in some quarters has led some to wonder if this really is it. Avatar's first release was bare bones, but here we've got three releases (DVD, BR, and BR:SE) that have been thoroughly decked out - well, the last one's been fully loaded anyway, and that's the version I bought. It's a fiver extra, but then again I'm a whore for special features and when I hear "four hour making of" I come running, and just like Fry I'm all "shut up and take my money!". :D

[LouCipherr]

I liked 'John Carter of Mars' too.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with me lately.


Time to face facts, Shootem'. You've fallen in with a bad crowd: us.

Wanna go see the new Paranormal Activity with me?

Hey shootem, at least you aren't subjecting yourself to movies like Sharktopus, Abraham Lincoln vs. Zombies, and Silent House unlike myself. When you start posting threads about shaming yourself for watching certain movies, then I will begin to worry about ya.. :lol:


You're part of the problem, Aces ... part of the problem. :D

^^THIS! Paranormal Activity 4 indeed! *shoots evil look at Aces*

:lol: :D

[bassman]

MZ - I will be completely and utterly shocked if you don't enjoy this release. Even if they release an extended cut in the future, there's just no possible way they could have more special features. You've mentioned you have this release ordered and should have it any day now.....trust me....it's a great set for the special features nerds like us.

I'm already wanting to give the "The Furious Gods" documentary another look. Of course it falls victim to some of the "it's like a family on set" crap that we always hear, but there is also tons of goodies for the movie nerds. It's easily as good as the docs on the Alien Anthology and "Dangerous Days" on Blade Runner(all made by the same guy, if i'm not mistaken).

It's actually kinda strange to get such a comprehensive documentary for a new film like this. Generally this type of thing is reserved for older films. Some of which deserve this sort of treatment....

[shootemindehead]

Time to face facts, Shootem'. You've fallen in with a bad crowd: us.

Wanna go see the new Paranormal Activity with me?

Oh crap...

Actually, already seen 'Paranormal Activity 1, 2 and 3'....





...and sorta liked them. :confused:

- - - Updated - - -


It's official, you've gone barmy. :lol: Somebody fetch me that straight jacket...

Gooble gabble, gooble gabble...

- - - Updated - - -


Hey shootem, at least you aren't subjecting yourself to movies like Sharktopus, Abraham Lincoln vs. Zombies, and Silent House unlike myself. When you start posting threads about shaming yourself for watching certain movies, then I will begin to worry about ya.. :lol:

Ah Lou, I've put my poor eyes through many an awful sight...I just don't come on here and confess!

Only the other night I watched 'Smiley'.

...and no, I didn't sorta like it. It was a fu*kin load of old bollocks.

Yay!!!!! Normal service has resumed!

[MinionZombie]

MZ - I will be completely and utterly shocked if you don't enjoy this release. Even if they release an extended cut in the future, there's just no possible way they could have more special features. You've mentioned you have this release ordered and should have it any day now.....trust me....it's a great set for the special features nerds like us.

I'm already wanting to give the "The Furious Gods" documentary another look. Of course it falls victim to some of the "it's like a family on set" crap that we always hear, but there is also tons of goodies for the movie nerds. It's easily as good as the docs on the Alien Anthology and "Dangerous Days" on Blade Runner(all made by the same guy, if i'm not mistaken).

It's actually kinda strange to get such a comprehensive documentary for a new film like this. Generally this type of thing is reserved for older films. Some of which deserve this sort of treatment....

Sounds excellent - my copy just arrived this morning, although I probably won't be able to really get into it until the weekend, but I'm very much looking forward to diving into it all. I thought Dangerous Days was one of the best documentaries I've ever seen (I've given it a couple of spins thus far), and it's so extensive that you don't have any other questions afterwards. Another doc like that was "30 Days In Hell" (the making of The Devil's Rejects, at 2.5 hours it was very comprehensive and really gave you the vibe of the set quite nicely).

Aye, you don't usually get docs that comprehensive for new releases, although sometimes you do - Avatar for instance. While it doesn't have a 'stand out beast' making of like here (rather, it's a series of docs that are all quite lengthy too), it's still very comprehensive, albeit focusing mostly on the techy stuff. You usually get some stuff, but it might not be all that comprehensive - just looking at a couple of things, or if it's a comedy it'll be a lot of alternate takes and bloopers and so on, rather than behind the scenes stuff, and what BTS stuff you'll get will usually be a puffed up EPK-type deeley.

I suppose the 'cult of Prometheus' was strong enough to justify such an extensive set that would appeal to the hardcore fans, and quite right too. I can't wait to dig into it all! :)


Gooble gabble, gooble gabble...

*fetches pitch fork, flaming torch, and straight jacket*

Come on chaps, let's get 'im! :elol:

[LouCipherr]

Oh crap...

Actually, already seen 'Paranormal Activity 1, 2 and 3'....


...and sorta liked them. :confused:



Liked them!? Don't make me use this!
http://us.cdn4.123rf.com/168nwm/palabra/palabra1001/palabra100100016/6258614-rolled-up-newspaper-with-rubber-band.jpg

:lol:




Ah Lou, I've put my poor eyes through many an awful sight...I just don't come on here and confess!

:o



*fetches pitch fork, flaming torch, and straight jacket*

Come on chaps, let's get 'im! :elol:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SdY5TtGAMd4/TSJ5AYYYwqI/AAAAAAAAEGo/2YfA43CuCaQ/s400/torch+mob.jpg

[bassman]

I suppose the 'cult of Prometheus' was strong enough to justify such an extensive set that would appeal to the hardcore fans, and quite right too. I can't wait to dig into it all! :)

I think it was more "the cult of Alien" that allowed this documentary to exist. Although they don't dwell on it, they certainly talk quite a bit about the film's connection to the Alien Franchise. The documentary is great in the way that it actually covers the concept from beginning to end. So we get to see those very early ideas when it was a direct prequel to Alien(featuring face huggers, Xenomorphs, etc.) all the way through the evolution of what it became.

It definitely feels like a continuation of the Alien documentaries toward the start, so I think that's actually how it began. They started documenting the process when the film was actually "Alien 01", so I imagine that's how they got the funding for it. BTW.....if you haven't seen the Alien Anthology documentaries, you're missing out.

[MinionZombie]

I have the 2-disc DVDs of Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3, so they have the documentaries on them which were included on the more recently released Blu-Rays (and aye, those docs are excellent). Sounds like an interesting doc, I look forward to pouring over it ... methinks Sunday afternoon. :)

[shootemindehead]

*fetches pitch fork, flaming torch, and straight jacket*

Come on chaps, let's get 'im! :elol:


http://www.leckman.com/lecture/frankenstein/images/torches.jpg


Ha! I'm in me fireproof wooden windmill watching 'Grave Encounters' and sorta liking it.

I don't fear you or your mob!