What do 'they' think when they see this clips do you think?

[Neil]

What do the bombers (murderers) think when they see this footage?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7983942.stm

[SymphonicX]

What do you think? They see us an an enemy...and they still continue to think of us in that way - they will cynically trivialise this as a media stunt, at the height of their analytical powers - this is what extremists do, they don't find a way for them to be RIGHT they find a way for us to be WRONG. We do it too! We've been doing it to the middle east for the last 8 years - how many things do you think we don't know about the Iraqi people and their views of us? Lots, lots and lots. We tarr them with a brush and they most definitely do the same to us - the truth is, no matter what the intention of helping this little girl, neither side can claim any sort of superiority when it comes to being transparent, and truthful. We're all full of it!

[Tricky]

Its a nice story & definitely the right way to go,unfortunately for every story like this,theres a dozen like these that completely undo the good work we're trying to do for these people
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and theres hundreds more like that on youtube,some are just bad taste messing about & others are plain nasty. Doesnt exactly help with relations out there even if the soldiers do excuse themselves as just relieving boredom! If the TA send me out to afghan in the future i certainly wont be behaving like that, the british army is a bit more strict about it on the whole anyway

[Neil]

What do you think? They see us an an enemy...and they still continue to think of us in that way - they will cynically trivialise this as a media stunt, at the height of their analytical powers - this is what extremists do, they don't find a way for them to be RIGHT they find a way for us to be WRONG. We do it too! We've been doing it to the middle east for the last 8 years - how many things do you think we don't know about the Iraqi people and their views of us? Lots, lots and lots. We tarr them with a brush and they most definitely do the same to us - the truth is, no matter what the intention of helping this little girl, neither side can claim any sort of superiority when it comes to being transparent, and truthful. We're all full of it!

But the crazy thing is 'their enemy' are their own people... They aer actually killing and injuring their own people... Madness!

[SymphonicX]

But the crazy thing is 'their enemy' are their own people... They aer actually killing and injuring their own people... Madness!

Totally, although I've always thought they saw civilians as ammunition rather than victims, ie a tool to terrorise, they affect the people, it affects the political situation....I guess really they're more of a whipping boy so they can prove a point.

[Neil]

Totally, although I've always thought they saw civilians as ammunition rather than victims, ie a tool to terrorise, they affect the people, it affects the political situation....I guess really they're more of a whipping boy so they can prove a point.

I'd just love to know what goes through their heads to justify killing and butchering innocent people... How do they justify it to themselves? How can they see children with eyes blown out, and limb blown off, and not rationalise it and imagine their own loved ones in that position? :confused:

[SRP76]

Totally, although I've always thought they saw civilians as ammunition rather than victims.

The proverbial nail-on-the-head, folks. They don't give two squirts of piss about "their people". "Their people" are the ones in their current circle of terrorist buddies - and that's it. They're not in it for "the masses". This is why you can never defeat them. You fight by "rules". You try to fight an enemy that will put a civilian directly between you to save themselves, while trying to protect the rest of the civilians at the same time. Since you cannot protect yourself, and protect a "flock", and attack the enemy, while getting around the meat shields, all at the same time, you cannot win.

[SymphonicX]

I'd just love to know what goes through their heads to justify killing and butchering innocent people... How do they justify it to themselves? How can they see children with eyes blown out, and limb blown off, and not rationalise it and imagine their own loved ones in that position? :confused:

Its easy to put the blinkers on man, this is something military organisations have perfected for decades - the ability to kill and not feel anything. It can be programmed into the human mind with striking ease when you think about it, coupled with their particular group mentality and idealism means it's not a huge effort for them to lose their sense of empathy and replace it with reckless, heartless abandon. Get the minds when they're young and impressionable and it's even easier.

Our western military has also displayed a very cold approach in *some* cases towards both civvies and to combatants (the latter more understandable)... a quick read through the book "On Killing" will prove that...also I've seen some soldier's own accounts that were truly horrifying in this war ("I was upset and my sergeant asked me what was wrong, I said "sir we've had a bad day, a lot of civilians were killed"...he looked at me and said "no son, that's a GOOD day"....") That kind of stuff, I mean ultimately it's a war and to a fair group of people everything and everyone is fair game to them which makes it easy to justify killing (following orders and the like) so really I'm not hugely shocked, but I am always appalled at just how sick we are as a species. (another account of an American soldier who was ordered to run over a 10 year old boy in a tank because they were given orders to simply keep going, definitely sticks in mind - I guess then you have to think, what if that boy was a pawn for an ambush? Who knows? And what would anyone do in that situation!?)

[Tricky]

Something else i disagree with in the iraq war is the sniper teams leaving "bait" out in the street,such as pieces of wire or 9v batteries etc,then shooting anyone who picks them up,justified by the theory that anybody who picks them up is intending to make an IED out of them so therefore its ok to shoot them!doesnt matter that it might be kids picking them up out of curiosity or adults picking them up so they cant be used for IED's!Im sure they have killed a few insurgents with this tactic,but in my opinion its a bit dubious

[Neil]

Something else i disagree with in the iraq war is the sniper teams leaving "bait" out in the street,such as pieces of wire or 9v batteries etc,then shooting anyone who picks them up,justified by the theory that anybody who picks them up is intending to make an IED out of them so therefore its ok to shoot them!doesnt matter that it might be kids picking them up out of curiosity or adults picking them up so they cant be used for IED's!Im sure they have killed a few insurgents with this tactic,but in my opinion its a bit dubious

Where on earth did you hear about this? Sounds a bit unbelievable...

[AcesandEights]

Where on earth did you hear about this? Sounds a bit unbelievable...

Did a real, real quick google search:

Click (specifically about 'Bait & Kill' tactics) (http://rawstory.com//news/2007/US_Sniper_tactics_of_bait_and_0925.html)

Click me too. (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/09/snipers/)

I'm browsing them now, myself.


"A Pentagon group has encouraged some U.S. military snipers in Iraq to target suspected insurgents by scattering pieces of 'bait,' such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, and then killing Iraqis who pick up the items, according to military court documents."

[Neil]

Did a real, real quick google search:

Click (specifically about 'Bait & Kill' tactics) (http://rawstory.com//news/2007/US_Sniper_tactics_of_bait_and_0925.html)

Click me too. (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/09/snipers/)

I'm browsing them now, myself.

Jesus Christ! I suppose a system that's deranged and perverted enough to conjur up Guantanamo, is easily capable of that madness too :eek:

[Tricky]

Where on earth did you hear about this? Sounds a bit unbelievable...

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I know war is nasty & far worse things have been done in past conflicts,but it still seems very wrong to use a tactic like that to me!

[Pógmothóin]

This isn't an "us vs. them" thing at all. The American military industrial complex is the single largest corporation in the world. It needs radical groups in order to sustain itself. Without the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc.., there wouldn't be any need for the MIC (and the billions and billions of dollars spent on defense), and that would blow another hole in an already failed economy.

There is a symbiotic relationship between "terrorist" groups and the western military control grid. Wars are no longer fought for patriotism or defense anymore, atleast not in the United States. They are fought solely for corporate profit. The same can be said about the prison industrial complex. We have three times the amount of people locked up than evil Red China, and the majority are non-violent offenders.

[Neil]

This isn't an "us vs. them" thing at all. The American military industrial complex is the single largest corporation in the world. It needs radical groups in order to sustain itself. Without the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc.., there wouldn't be any need for the MIC (and the billions and billions of dollars spent on defense), and that would blow another hole in an already failed economy.

There is a symbiotic relationship between "terrorist" groups and the western military control grid. Wars are no longer fought for patriotism or defense anymore, atleast not in the United States. They are fought solely for corporate profit. The same can be said about the prison industrial complex. We have three times the amount of people locked up than evil Red China, and the majority are non-violent offenders.

Thinks back to Robocop - "I had a guarantee military sale with ED 209. Renovation program. Spare parts for 25 years. Who cares if it worked or not?"