Just finished reading "World War Z"...

[JDFP]

...and holy sheisse, that has to be the absolute finest work of Zombie fiction that I have ever read. Abso-frakkin-lutely breathtaking. I read it in two days (it would have been within one day had I not had to get at least 3 hours of sleep before going to work the next day). I can't believe I waited so long to read this amazing work.

I've heard that the rights have been sold to do a movie from the book? As much as I'd love to see this done justice in film, I'm not for certain how something of its magnitude could really be captured on film. The locations, actors/actresses (of course the masses of zombies could be CGI), and special effects alone would be extremely expensive. To do this work true justice would certainly cost an absolute fortune. I would buy a ticket in a heart-beat (or lack of heart-beat, hah) though.

I honestly found it difficult to put it down, it was just that frakkin' good.

*** THERE BE SPOILERS BELOW ***






So many different survivor stories given were just incredible. One of my favorite would have been the sheer hubris of the Hollywood elite that decided to attempt to "wait out" the plague at a mansion with a state of the art security system and cameras in every room. I love how the protagonist mentioned (without saying her name) Paris Hilton as the "washed up whore" famous for being a "washed up whore" there as well as the little chihuahua. I honestly had to put the book down for a moment from laughing too hard at the masses of people who attempted to swarm the mansion for safety. I have no doubt that few, if any of them, would have survived over the next year.

I also greatly enjoyed the story of the Chinese submarine that made a break for it with her crew and their families. I think of all places it would have been most interesting to have been on that sub away from the rest of the world in safety -- how extremely lucky those folks were to have been there. The only real issue I had with the "ocean zombies" was the concept of them being in deep water for 10+ years (doesn't the scuba-diver mention that there were between 20-30 MILLION of the ghouls in the ocean occasionally creeping up on shore near the end?) and still being able to function without their bodies decomposing. I just can't see that, undead or not undead.

What really sets this work aside from most other zombie fiction is really the human element. This was not a novel about zombies, it was a novel about survivors from a war that included zombies, it was a story about the human condition. It did Romero true justice in this approach (unlike "Land of the Dead" which I think was the weakest of his franchise; at least "Diary" was creative).

Some of the most interesting concepts were the mention of the "LaMOE's" at the end (last man on earth) that the Army Group's encountered on their journey across the country. I wish more was written regarding these folks, what they experienced during the war, how they survived, how they integrated within the rest of the society after the war. I also wonder how the military could have been as successful at their waves across the nation in destroying every ghoul (I believe the work stated somewhere around 200 MILLION of them in the U.S. alone). They would have had to enter EVERY building, every inch of every town and valley to get every last one -- that operation alone almost seems impossible due to the magnitude. They would have had to have made multiple waves across every inch of the country.

My only complaint with "WWZ" was the length. It was just too damn short within its less than 400 pages. This work should have been like "The Stand" to give enough justice to the incredible subject matter -- I kept wanting so much more by the end of the work. So many unanswered questions: What happened at Buckingham/Balmoral Palaces to the survivors? Did the royals survive? What about the "stragglers" from the east that made it to the Rocky Mtn divide? Were they allowed in or did they also have to flee for Canada and probable starvation? How was the splintered gov't able to shut down nuclear reactor plants from meltdown during the fleeing to the west? While never mentioned in the work, I would be most interested in knowing what happened to folks on gamma-world-cruisers like the Queen Mary 2 that could stay out to sea for years. When will we get "WWZ" part 2?

Overall, wow, just wow...

j.p.

[rightwing401]

You got that right dude. WWZ was, without a doubt, the best damn zombie book I've ever read. The points of view from people all over the world, from a Chinese nuclear sub commander, to a doctor in South America, to a grunt in the U.S. army, were very real. You could actually believe that if something like this would happen, that's how people might end up going through it.

The scariest tale for me was the French soldiers battling the undead in the catcombs under Paris. I could just picture being in those tight, noxious corradors, with only a few flashlights and NV goggles to use, and not being able to use any guns against the thousands of undead roaming around in there...frightening crap.

The only thing that I really didn't enjoy about the story was the account of Yonkers. Not so much the events that happened, but the reasons for them happening. The reasons for being in the MOPP suits I can understand, the soldiers needed to look bad ass for the propaganda factor. But the explenation for the lack of anti-personel rounds for the heavier weapons like tanks and APC's didn't strike me as realistic. I always imagined that it wasn't due to a complete lack of common sense on the generals parts, but rather a lack of practicality. Yonkers was only supposed to take place a few days after the fall of New York. Add that to the fact that outbreaks were happening all over the country, which manpower and ordinance had to be diverted to contain, and that more than explains why the army didn't have what it needed. Plus, the lack of preparation for a need for continous firing for long periods of time, which Abrams and Bradleys are not designed for. (I can imagine that the same rule also applies for attack helicopters).

Other than that, the rest of it was good. The question about the sweep of America is easy to explain. After the withdrawl, the remaining population was transformed into one of total war. Anyone that was capable of combat, which would easily number in the millions, would be armed and sent into battle. All those left behind, the old and young, were trained to create supplies and ammunition. It did take them three years, but the declaration of victory was only a title, as there were still plenty of gouls around. No doubt most of the population left would be living within heavily walled areas for a good many decades.

And I do agree with you about the undead on the ocean floor. I find that hard to swallow too, but it's a story so I can suspend disbelief.

[clanglee]

Yeah, wonderful book. Loved it to death. My favorite story was the one about the ferral kid that was telling the story of all the people trapped in the church. Just good storytelling that.

[ProfessorChaos]

indeed, you stumbled upon a literary pot of gold, dude. i've read it a couple of times, and like you, the first time i read it was pretty much over a single weekend.

been a while since any news about the film has come along. hopefully we'll hear some (good) news soon. such an abundance of material to cover in a single film, though...let's hope they don't fuck it up.

[wyvern1096]

Bought that one not too long after it came out. Great, great book.

[Neil]

If I recall, it doesn't go into much detail of the infection itself? If I remember, people have to be bitten to be infected? ie: If you just died naturally, you would not reanimate?

[capncnut]

Personally, I think WWZ is very, very overrated. I could name a bunch of zombie books that thrilled me a lot more.

[Danny]

i think its pretty overrated, brooks paints a scene of an aftermath world as good as stephen king does in the stand but theres hardly any "why?" behind it.

though i still say the audio novel is better than the hard copy of the book.

[darth los]

I thought it was a good book. Not the best, not the the worst I've read.









:cool:

[Yojimbo]

I'm with Cap, Hells and Darth on this one. WWZ was an entertaining read to be sure, but truthfully it didn't knock me over or anything. I have read fan fiction on these boards that kick WWZ's ass.

Nothing against those who dug this novel, mind you I did find it entertaining too, but I think that Max Brooks is a legend in his own mind, and that he is an overrated writer of average skill who is very lucky to have stumbled across a niche in the horror market that had not previously been filled. Brooks happened to be in the right place at the right time to release a product which was eagerly consumed by a previously existing demographic who was starved for new product in an environment where a big chunk of the avaliable product, with few exceptions, is of mediocre quality at best. From a PR standpoint, I am certain that it didn't hurt him BTW that he happens to be the son of Mel Brooks (who I think is a genius) and I think that this opened some doors to publishers that may not have necessarily been that easy to get through if you were a regular, unknown and previously unpublished regular-average-joe writer.

[darth los]

I am certain that it didn't hurt him BTW that he happens to be the son of Mel Brooks (who I think is a genius) and I think that this opened some doors to publishers that may not have necessarily been that easy to get through if you were a regular, unknown and previously unpublished regular-average-joe writer.



I'm not a big media whore so I don't keep up with these things. I had no Idea he was Mel's son. But yeah, that's probably it right there. All of us who have life experience have found out at some point that it's about who you know.







:cool:

[JDFP]

If I recall, it doesn't go into much detail of the infection itself? If I remember, people have to be bitten to be infected? ie: If you just died naturally, you would not reanimate?

Aye, Neil, it starts out as a plague they label as "African rabies" that infects people when bitten. I dig both concepts of zombies, infected by a bite ONLY or infected from "unknown radiation brought back from a Venus probe" that doesn't hurt living people but somehow messes with the cellular structure of those who die and brings them back as well as being bitten. I don't know about the whole radiation thing though, would this radiation be able to spread all over the world to everyone just by breaching our atmosphere? Would this radiation be permanent or eventually fade in time? Or did the gov't create it with their failed attempts at Trioxin? :annoyed:

I think I prefer the concept of zombies turning into zombies by bite alone... the plague would certainly be more manageable in this situation.

The only thing I know for certain about ghouls is that I HATE, HATE zombies that can run! :rant:



Personally, I think WWZ is very, very overrated. I could name a bunch of zombie books that thrilled me a lot more.

Which ones?

I'm always up for reading a good zombie book.

j.p.

[blind2d]

I'm with jdfp on this one, capn. What books are you reefering to?

[capncnut]

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n44/n220703.jpg

I enjoyed this one. Goes against every single zombie rule in the book but remains totally readable. I couldn't put the book down - exciting stuff.


The only thing I know for certain about ghouls is that I HATE, HATE zombies that can run! :rant:
Then it might be advised that you avoid The Words Of Their Roaring because these f**kers can drive and operate stuff! If you strictly love the shambler and nothing more then WWZ is about the best you're gonna get. Don't get me wrong, I hate runners too (see the words under my avatar) and I hated Yawn 04 and Ghey 08, and everything else that ripped off the superior 28 Days Later (which I know is not a zombie movie). But if you're open to something brilliantly written in a believable and highly entertaining way, then TWOTR is definitely worth a read.

[Wyldwraith]

Ugh,
That's a big no. Despise the "intelligent tool/vehicle using" zombie concept. Brian Keene tried it, and both The Rising and City of the Dead infuriated me. Return of the Living Dead did it, but those were comedies, so...

I don't mind a compromise between Super-Slow Ultra-Weak Savini zombies and runners however. Zombies that remained uncoordinated and of animal level intelligence AT MAX that have a reasonably quick lunge over a VERY SHORT distance (that would probably end with them falling over if they missed their target) would up the ante a bit, without shattering the tension shamblers create.

Zombies that plan military campaigns, use satellite communication and surveillance to hunt down and organize attacks on the last few enclaves of humans, and undead with military demolitions skill using explosive ordinance and heavy machinery to breach those enclaves bore me witless.

Why? Raise your hand if you've read either The Rising or City of the Dead and you felt like not only was everything the humans felt, thought and did was beyond futile, and everything the "zombies" did was so incredibly boring because their victory was inevitable.

That's why.

WWZ was great because it did a solid job of exploring a heretofore little-explored aspect of global survival horror scenarios. Max Brooks isn't the greatest writer of the century by any means, but at no time did his reach exceed his grasp. WWZ accomplished everything its author set out to accomplish, and it did it in a fresh and compelling manner.

Is it among my Top 10 Lifetime Favorite Books? No. But it's certainly in the Top 50. For someone whose read literally thousands of horror (many genres), sci-fi and fantasy novels, I feel that speaks loudly as to the relative quality of WWZ.

I have my doubts about the movie version capturing the essence that made it a fun read, but continue to hope.

In a venue littered with crap, super-crap and mega-ultra-ultimate crap, WWZ was a treat. We're lucky if we get three novels and two zombie movies per 5-8yrs that are really good. Then we have to endure the deluge of mediocre product to find those rare few gems.

Framed in that light, can you truly find so great a fault with the work?

[clanglee]

Wyldwraith. . . .
http://bp2.blogger.com/__i6oNWoq_I0/Rsv9mZ4EG0I/AAAAAAAAAS8/ydWHmBKPFh8/s320/waxachumplikeacandle.jpg

Word to your mother!!

[wayzim]

Personally, I think WWZ is very, very overrated. I could name a bunch of zombie books that thrilled me a lot more.

It reminds me of War Day, by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, about a pair of journalists trekking across America after a limited nuclear war. Kind of a 'Where were you when the bombs fell. ' tome.
I thought that one seriously lacked on several fronts, including any real sense of drama, ironic or otherwise.
I haven't read World War Z yet, partly because I haven't been reading alot of fiction these days, Real Life sucking up my time. Still, another Zombie book on the shelf is generally a good thing, right?

Wayne Z

“I’d like to think that ‘Autonomy. ‘ isn’t just an idle word for us. “ ventured Bill, his careful challenge bringing an open grin to the old man’s lips. “You’re thinking about more than the current crisis. “ chuckled Delaney.
“It has been a long road, and if you hope to Federalize in a pinch, even a quarter of what your proposition implies … “
“Ya don‘t sweet talk your concerns, I’ll give you that. “ interrupted his mentor, though not with the rancor reserved for that unfortunate outside. “But how much further do we go? even without the Dead risin, before this separation would tear us apart. The Civil War, Reconstruction, Desegregation … “
“Separate But Equal. “ amended Honor, giving their boss the Evil Eye as both he and Parson had the good sense to blush. “This seems an extreme way to bring both sides together, Winslow. “
“Extreme times, as they say darlin. “ the senator countered dryly. “And I must say, You look mighty pretty when yer pissed off. “
“Damn Yank Pride. “ she giggled, though not without following it with a deep sigh. “But still it has it’s time. Especially when we’re preparing to go off the deep end … “
“Sink or Swim, we’ll go as one nation. “ he conceded with soft certainty, though cut by a cautious undertone. “Of course, when you think you’ve hit bottom, there’s always more bottom. “

DeadFall; Fools on The Hill. (Work in Progress. )

[SRP76]

I don't mind a compromise between Super-Slow Ultra-Weak Savini zombies and runners however. Zombies that remained uncoordinated and of animal level intelligence AT MAX that have a reasonably quick lunge over a VERY SHORT distance (that would probably end with them falling over if they missed their target) would up the ante a bit, without shattering the tension shamblers create.



Morningstar Strain! You get both, and in a way that actually makes sense.

[wyvern1096]

It reminds me of War Day, by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, about a pair of journalists trekking across America after a limited nuclear war. Kind of a 'Where were you when the bombs fell. ' tome.
I thought that one seriously lacked on several fronts, including any real sense of drama, ironic or otherwise.
I haven't read World War Z yet, partly because I haven't been reading alot of fiction these days, Real Life sucking up my time. Still, another Zombie book on the shelf is generally a good thing, right?

Thank you. I noted the likeness to Warday myself. Warday was a tad dry but I remember it as an interesting book.

World War Z is better though.

[Wooley]

I've got it and read it, and where it succeeds, it succeeds well, and where it fails, it fails so hard it hurts. The Indian man's escape to the harbor and the Wisconsin girl's run with her family to Canada, the Aussie astronaut, the mentally stunted girl the Redeker plan, as well as the ex-Army dog handler were some of my favorite stories, as was Wainro's talk about LaMOEs and the other unexpected hazards on the offensive, like boobytraps, unstable buildings, gangs, and illness, and the General's 'bred, fed and led' talk.

Where it failed was I just couldn't buy the new military weapons and BDUs, not after the government reconstruction official had gone into the logistical nightmares he faced. The industrial capacity isn't there, nor are the the raw materials, even with his total war policy.

I thought the book screeched to a halt when Brooks tripped over his own politics (Heehee, Dick Cheney's shoveling horse shit, hehehe, Anne Coulter is fucking Bill Mahr, hehehehe!) Putting one's own political ideology in one's work is like cooking-go lightly or you're gonna overwhelm the dish, unless you're audience is up for it.

The blind Japanese swordsman and his computer nerd sidekick story fell flat on me. Can't we have a mention of Japan in a story that doesn't involve katanas or A-bombs? Seriously!

Holes in his research showed too, which pulled me out of the story. If you're going to mention researching for your story, expect to get nitpicked on when you make mistakes or miss stuff. The SIR kicks hard my ass. If Brooks had gone to a range and tried a few guns, maybe he'd have known a 5.56mm rifle recoils very little, and a gun like the Mini-14 practically nothing. Maybe he wouldn't have eaten that M-16 sucks bullshit up with a spoon in TZSG either. The Redeker plan abandoned every US gun maker to zombie territory. FN Herstal, Colt, and Beretta, most notably, in Virgina, Connecticut, and Maryland. They have the military contracts for the M-16, the M-249, the M-240, the M-4, the M-203 and the M-9. Every major US military small arm. If he'd mentioned moving the work forces and machinery across the Rockies, I'd buy rearmament. He doesn't so I assume it's a plot hole as to where he finds the industrial output and workforce to turn out a new army's worth of weapons in a few short months.

Enough, I've ragged on it enough. What was good was really good, what sucked sucked cold sick through a straw.

[EvilNed]

The blind Japanese swordsman and his computer nerd sidekick story fell flat on me. Can't we have a mention of Japan in a story that doesn't involve katanas or A-bombs? Seriously!

Thank you, thank you! This is my only real problem with the book. The blind swordsman story is just ridiculous. There's noway in hell that could have happened in reality, and it's somehow as if the book is trying to remain realistic... except for these chapters when it suddenly turns into some kind of extremely clichéd fantasy. If he wanted to write about Japan, why not write about... Well, a business man or something like that instead?

Apart from that, I love the book. I've read it three times, which is more than I can say for any other book besides The Time Machine.

I cannot recommend WWZ highly enough. All you nay-sayers, repent!

But I've also read The Words of their Roaring, and while I don't think it comes anywhere near WWZ, it's still a very good book. Don't judge a book by it's cover, man. The "different" zombies in the book are presented very well and the whole film has a very good story arch that spans about ten years of a mans life. It's a bit Pulp Fictiony in it's storytelling, which can be troublesome at first, but you'll still get hooked.

[kidgloves]

been a while since any news about the film has come along. hopefully we'll hear some (good) news soon. such an abundance of material to cover in a single film, though...let's hope they don't fuck it up.

Apparently Marc Forsters not happy with the script and has moved onto another project pushing WWZ further back. They should get rid of him altogether and get someone else in.