Whats the hate with the Star Wars Special Editions? [Archive]

Doc

07-Jul-2009, 04:44 PM

I never really got that. Sure some alternations are distracting but, its not like they are changing the plot or continuity.

Please don't think I'm a little kid who just likes, the new editions and the prequels because they have 'better effects'. I do prefer the original theartical versions of the films more but, I do admit seeing the SEs more because of better quality. The way I see though, the fanbases hate of the SEs is really overblown....then again, I didn't grow up in the 70s and 80s with SW....

bassman

07-Jul-2009, 05:02 PM

When you take anything as iconic and loved as Star Wars and start tinkering with it....of course people are going to be mad. I think what REALLY pisses off most of the fans is that Lucas refuses to release the original films on any new formats. So from now on, all people can view are the special editions.

I don't have a huge problem with what Lucas did. Some of it didn't need to be changed and some of it works well, but just like you said....in the end it's the same film.

SymphonicX

07-Jul-2009, 05:12 PM

anyone see the episode of south park where they remade all the old movies and replaced the guns with cell phones? I guess that's how people feel

DjfunkmasterG

07-Jul-2009, 05:39 PM

I have the originals on DVD... They came as part of the TIN boxset from 2 years ago I bought at Best Buy

it included on disc 1 SE, and on disc 2 the Original Cuts

Danny

07-Jul-2009, 06:02 PM

its a crazy old man lucas movie?

EvilNed

07-Jul-2009, 06:04 PM

I think what REALLY pisses off most of the fans is that Lucas refuses to release the original films on any new formats. So from now on, all people can view are the special editions.

Actually, the original versions have been out on DVD for some time now.

bassman

07-Jul-2009, 06:12 PM

I didn't realize the original films were on DVD. Last I heard, Lucas went on record as saying the Special Editions ARE the films now and he wouldn't release the originals.

DjfunkmasterG

07-Jul-2009, 07:55 PM

Yep, 2 years now Bassman, at least 2 years. however, they are from Digibeta transfers and look like shit, but still they are on DVD

darth los

07-Jul-2009, 08:27 PM

When you take anything as iconic and loved as Star Wars and start tinkering with it....of course people are going to be mad.

Exactly. Just Imagine if someone took something equally as iconic a Star Wars like say.... Night of the living dead and started tinkering with it making it an....unwatchable.....stomach turning...hot....mess. HEY!!!!! WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! RUSSO ALREADY DID THAT !!! My bad.

Yeah so how did that feel? :p:lol:

:cool:

bassman

07-Jul-2009, 08:29 PM

:lol: That's a perfect example!

But I think we can all agree that Lucas didn't f*ck up the original trilogy as bad as Russo f*cked up Night.

clanglee

07-Jul-2009, 09:32 PM

I really didn't have TOO much of a problem with the changes in the special edition, with the very large exception of the very end on Jedi.

Replacing David Prowse with stupid Hayden Christensen was unforgivable. And it made no freakin' sense!! Why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with McGregor while they were at it!??!? Ohhhhh that still makes me mad.

Doc

07-Jul-2009, 10:36 PM

Exactly. Just Imagine if someone took something equally as iconic a Star Wars like say.... Night of the living dead and started tinkering with it making it an....unwatchable.....stomach turning...hot....mess. HEY!!!!! WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! RUSSO ALREADY DID THAT !!! My bad.

Yeah so how did that feel? :p:lol:

Never seen the 30th annivesary just clips here and there. I was thinking of actually buying it but, negative response is so strong against the edition I decided not to.:eek:

Replacing David Prowse with stupid Hayden Christensen was unforgivable. And it made no freakin' sense!! Why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with McGregor while they were at it!??!? Ohhhhh that still makes me mad.

Yeah, whats up with that? Lucas gave some crap explaination for it but ,I can't remember though.

While, we're on the subject on Jedi don't forget 'Jedi Rocks'.:dead:

I have no problem with the song itself but, the horrible cgi thats a different story.:rolleyes:

But, other than those alternations nothing really bothers me much. The one that confuses me til this day though...is the Who Shot First one?:confused::|:rockbrow:

Can some explain this to me? What does it matter who shot first? So, Han shoots first so what? What does it prove? He's a faster draw? :confused:

EvilNed

07-Jul-2009, 10:55 PM

MoonSylver

07-Jul-2009, 11:31 PM

I didn't HATE them. Some changes were cool, some were *meh* & some I did hate, so it was uneven overall. The Jabba scene was a bit cool in ep.4.

Oddly, some of the things I hated worst were very minor changes.

As Luke falls: "Aaaahhhhhhh...."= Lame.

Vader (after Luke falls original) "Bring my shuttle!" (delivered in voice full of barely controlled rage & fury) New: "Prepare my shuttle for immediate departure." (Delivered in a voice full of bored courtesy & politeness)= Lame.

I really didn't have TOO much of a problem with the changes in the special edition, with the very large exception of the very end on Jedi.

Replacing David Prowse with stupid Hayden Christensen was unforgivable. And it made no freakin' sense!! Why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with McGregor while they were at it!??!? Ohhhhh that still makes me mad.

Actually, they replaced Sebastian Shaw. Prowse was the "man in the suit": he got no face time.

I saw what they were going for with it: you want him to match up w/ the actor who played him. Fair enough. Obviously he's going to be un-scarred & undamaged. But why didn't they age him any? Anakin "died" in the figurative sense when he became Vader, not literally. He was a middle aged man when he died. They could've aged him up a bit (or just left Sebastian Shaw in there...)

As for "Who Shot First", in the original version Han Solo shoots first and asks questions later. It's an important part of his character introduction. But when you have him shooting in self-defence, that also changed the character introduction... And the character.

Yup, that's why Lucas changed it. I still think it's lame though. In the original, I Had no problem w/ Han shooting first. You know Greedo has the drop on him, you know he's getting ready to shoot Han, it's not like Han had him unarmed & helpless & gunned him down in cold blood or anything, so really, unnecessary IMO, plus it kinda detracts from the Han-outwitting-him part of it.

clanglee

08-Jul-2009, 12:00 AM

bassman

08-Jul-2009, 12:17 AM

I was watching the special features on Indiana Jones 4 the other day and Lucas was wearing a "Han shot first" T-shirt. Kinda weird considering he changed the scene...

Exatreides

08-Jul-2009, 01:28 AM

The Jaba scene at the Mos Espa space port was HORRIBLY done. Terrible CGI, Shadowing and just plain bad.

So was the sarlac in episode six.

bassman

08-Jul-2009, 01:35 AM

So was the sarlac in episode six.

Yeah...the beak thing. What the hell was up with that? I liked it much more when it was just the hole with teeth.

With the beak it reminded me of Audrey(the plant) from Little Shop of Horrors.:lol:

capncnut

08-Jul-2009, 01:48 AM

Star Wars. Cinema. 1978. Yeah, that version, pal. :rolleyes:

Lucas... what a serious waste of f**king talent. American Graffiti is my personal favourite btw.

EvilNed

08-Jul-2009, 08:59 AM

Yeah...the beak thing. What the hell was up with that? I liked it much more when it was just the hole with teeth.

I actually heard a story about that. Since George Lucas doesn't like other people tampering with his story and such, he got pretty pissed when everybody was trying to revive Boba Fett after he died in Star Wars 6 (because he was intended to die, simple as that). So he added the beak to make it look somewhat more impossible to escape and more of a grotesque death.

In anyway, I hate Boba Fett. He's a useless marksman that can't hit anything.

blind2d

08-Jul-2009, 10:37 AM

You better not let Trellin Fett hear that! Anyway, yeah. The song sucked in Jabba's throne room when they redid it. The original was much more boppy.

bassman

08-Jul-2009, 12:26 PM

In anyway, I hate Boba Fett. He's a useless marksman that can't hit anything.

He's still the coolest bounty hunter in the series. I mean...it's either him or that lizard dude in the yellow jumpsuit.:p

Here's an interesting video that compares the original films to the special editions. 99.9% of the changes are just pointless. And I never noticed the difference made to Vader's face when Luke takes off his mask at the end of Jedi. They took off his eyebrows and turned him into a conehead!:lol:

RYKp9YaMBpY&hl=en&fs=1&

blind2d

08-Jul-2009, 07:37 PM

Yep. The revamped stuff is just not as good as the original, be it music, monsters, or explosions. But don't take my word for it. *Buh-dap-dap!*
Sorry, I just love Reading Rainbow.
Oh, and he's a Trandoshan named Bossk. Hunts Wookies. I'm a nerd.

bassman

08-Jul-2009, 07:53 PM

I once saw a shirt that only said "Save the Wookies". I've wanted it ever since....

C5NOTLD

08-Jul-2009, 09:33 PM

As for "Who Shot First", in the original version Han Solo shoots first and asks questions later. It's an important part of his character introduction. But when you have him shooting in self-defence, that also changed the character introduction... And the character.

I agree. That was the main thing that bothered me about the SE - Han no longer shoots first. But I do like the SE. Just more SW which is always good.

I know some complained about the cg of Jabba in the SW SE but I'll take that any day over the Yoda puppet in Ep1. I just hope Lucas goes back and does a cg replacement of that Yoda some day.

I love anything SW. Lucas can do whatever he wants to the films.
The originals will aways be there. Ultimately I'll end up buying every edition he puts out anyway :lol:

3D versions are coming next.

EvilNed

08-Jul-2009, 09:49 PM

C5NOTLD

08-Jul-2009, 09:54 PM

That happens with some people. I have to admit I liked Ep3.

What happened with you on Ep3 happened with me on Indy 4 (KOTCS) so I can understand it.

MoonSylver

08-Jul-2009, 10:27 PM

Used to be a huge Star Wars fan myself, actually. But I really lost interest after Episode 3. Why? Because Episode 3 really ruined Star Wars for me. I'm not kidding you when I say I walked into Star Wars Episode 3 a huge Star Wars fan and came out so disappointed I didn't even buy the film on DVD when it came out to complete my collection (and I love collecting DVDs) and after that I think I've seen maybe... One or two Star Wars films. By accident. I just lost interest, thanks to the prequels.

But I have another lover these days... The crew of the Starship Enterprise!

I'm a bit *meh* about 1-3, they've got some great parts, & some not soo great parts. Overall I like them, but they're a bit uneven. They didn't diminish my love for 4-6.

Now Trek I had the same experience with. I used to be a HUGE Trek fan (even more so than SW), but sometime around "Enterprise" my enthusiasm cooled dramatically & I've never regained it since.

That happens with some people. I have to admit I liked Ep3.

What happened with you on Ep3 happened with me on Indy 4 (KOTCS) so I can understand it.

I must be one of the only one's on here who actually liked KOTCS....:shifty::(

MaximusIncredulous

08-Jul-2009, 11:42 PM

"Whats the hate with the Star Wars Special Editions?"

The changes were dumb, pointless, and annoying and not only did nothing to enhance the originals but were done solely to turn those films into cheap promos for his idiotic prequels. The "that's my original vision" line from Lucas sounds like crap to me. If it isn't, I think it is one of the few instances in film history where the lack of a huge budget was a good thing.

blind2d

08-Jul-2009, 11:47 PM

Wow Max, thanks for putting my exact feelings in writing! I totally agree with you, my man.

EvilNed

09-Jul-2009, 12:22 AM

The last good thing to happen to Star Wars was when The Empires Strikes Back got released in theathers.

MaximusIncredulous

09-Jul-2009, 12:31 AM

The last good thing to happen to Star Wars was when The Empires Strikes Back got released in theathers.

Yeah. I knew there were going to be problems with Return when Lucas wanted to name Ep. 6 Revenge of the Jedi. Obviously he didn't give a damn anymore.

EvilNed

09-Jul-2009, 12:43 AM

MoonSylver

09-Jul-2009, 01:27 AM

It starts out pretty good, I think. In Jabbas Palace. But it does spend alot of time at Jabbas place, which kinda sucks because I'm more interested in the conflict with the Empire...

And then when we get to the Empire, they're just defeated by Ewoks anyway. :p

Should've stuck w/ the original plan w/ the Wookies. That would've made more sense & been easier to buy than Ewoks.:annoyed:

bassman

09-Jul-2009, 11:57 AM

I must be one of the only one's on here who actually liked KOTCS....:shifty::(

I'll tag along with you on that one. I really like Indy 4.:D

It's better than the Star Wars prequels, that's for sure. That being said, I do like the prquels a bit. Especially 3. I thought the third film was great, actually.

Skippy911sc

09-Jul-2009, 01:44 PM

Ok time for me to chime in on this...

I loved...LOVED episode 4, more than the rest. This could be due to my age upon seeing it or the overall feeling I get from re-watching it today. I know that Ep 5 is the $hit to most...it is a fantastic movie...much better than Ep 6, but not as good as 4.

The remade versions or redone versions are just pointless...WHY...WHY!!! So we can get the new Anakin in the movie to tie it all together?? So every movie with a slight flaw (in the directors mind) should be redone...COME ON!!!

It is true I enjoyed Ep 3, though it was the best of the new movies but Ep 1 almost made be believe there was no GOD!...

Lucas has become a hack in my mind...just look at Indy! Oh Lord!!!...South Park got it right...Lucas and Spielberg just ass raped some of the greatest stories ever!!

I can now go back to my basement and eat Cheetos.

bassman

09-Jul-2009, 02:12 PM

Lucas has become a hack in my mind...just look at Indy! Oh Lord!!!...South Park got it right...Lucas and Spielberg just ass raped some of the greatest stories ever!!

Come on now. Indy 4 has it's flaws, but it's nowhere near as bad as the SW prequels! I would say that Lucas is raping the films, but not Spielberg. Most of the bad things about Indy 4 came from the mind of Lucas.....

Indy 4 get's ragged on way too much. It could have been much, MUCH worse. True, it could have been better but at least it wasn't Phantom Menace bad. Hell...I actually prefer Indy 4 over Indy 2.:shifty:

EvilNed

09-Jul-2009, 02:48 PM

darth los

09-Jul-2009, 03:50 PM

The Phantom Menace is actually the only one of the prequels that's okay in my book. At least it has the spirit of adventure going for it, which is more than one can say for the other pointless, boring and shitty films. Indy 4 is just as bad as the SW prequels I say. Nay, not as bad, just really, really... Bland... And boring. And too much CGI.

Best buy had blu-rays on sale for 17 bucks. I had enough for one more and it was either indy 4 or the love guru. I said to myself "Let's go with indy, how can you go wrong with that?"

it is a decision I will rue for the rest of my life. :annoyed:

It's funny just how powerful name/brand recognition can be.

:cool:

Skippy911sc

09-Jul-2009, 06:09 PM

Best buy had blu-rays on sale for 17 bucks. I had enough for one more and it was either indy 4 or the love guru. I said to myself "Let's go with indy, how can you go wrong with that?"

it is a decision I will rue for the rest of my life. :annoyed:

It's funny just how powerful name/brand recognition can be.

:cool:

Hahahahaha!

I watched indy 4 with high hopes and was let down immensely.

Spoiler...or save the rental

Getting shot across the desert in a fridge??? come on!
getting launched down on a sled at super high speed while fighting...COME ON!!!
The guy is an antique by now and he acts like he is 20...hell I can hurt myself getting out of bed wrong and this guy is flying through the air on a whip and landing through the windshield of a truck...

I wish CGI (for the most part) would just go away! Directors need to start making better decisions with the use of computers...the whole jungle scene in Indy looked fake...where where they a back lot in LA...what ever happened to location. They all need to learn a little (very little) from Werner Herzog.

bassman

09-Jul-2009, 07:07 PM

Getting shot across the desert in a fridge??? come on!
getting launched down on a sled at super high speed while fighting...COME ON!!!
The guy is an antique by now and he acts like he is 20...hell I can hurt myself getting out of bed wrong and this guy is flying through the air on a whip and landing through the windshield of a truck...

This kind of thinking always surprises me. True, the fridge is a bit "out there", but there are situations in the original trilogy that are just as crazy and nobody questions them. All of the Indy films are about an ordinary guy making it through extraordinary situations. And about the rocket sled....they weren't fighting on it once it launched.

the whole jungle scene in Indy looked fake...where where they a back lot in LA...what ever happened to location. They all need to learn a little (very little) from Werner Herzog.

Check out the special features. Most of the jungle scene was shot on location.;)

darth los

09-Jul-2009, 07:20 PM

Hahahahaha!

I watched indy 4 with high hopes and was let down immensely.

Spoiler...or save the rental

Getting shot across the desert in a fridge??? come on!
getting launched down on a sled at super high speed while fighting...COME ON!!!
The guy is an antique by now and he acts like he is 20...hell I can hurt myself getting out of bed wrong and this guy is flying through the air on a whip and landing through the windshield of a truck...

I wish CGI (for the most part) would just go away! Directors need to start making better decisions with the use of computers...the whole jungle scene in Indy looked fake...where where they a back lot in LA...what ever happened to location. They all need to learn a little (very little) from Werner Herzog.

Or how about learning from their past films even!?! I'm sure the jungle scene from the original looks way better and more believable.

:cool:

clanglee

09-Jul-2009, 07:59 PM

.

I must be one of the only one's on here who actually liked KOTCS....:shifty::(

Nah Moon, I'm with ya.

MoonSylver

09-Jul-2009, 10:51 PM

Lucas has become a hack in my mind...just look at Indy! Oh Lord!!!...South Park got it right...Lucas and Spielberg just ass raped some of the greatest stories ever!!

I've never seen the episode & I already hate it with a burning. seething, passion, just because it's what everyone quotes to illustrate their hatred for KOTCS (no offense). My first viewing of it was RIGHT AFTER watching the other 3 back-to-back & honestly I don't see this "rape of Indy" every keeps spewing about (and what an ugly, distasteful comparison it is anyway...)

I thought they did a great job "catching up" with the character, showing us what he's been up too. I thought they handled his age pretty well while still keeping it action-y enough. Good reflection of the era & culture it was set in. I didn't find any of the "set piece" action any more over-the-top than some of the other movies. I'd put it right after the original & LC & like it better than ToD for sure.

Getting shot across the desert in a fridge??? come on!
getting launched down on a sled at super high speed while fighting...COME ON!!!

About as believable as doing wheelies in a coal mine cart, jumping it with out flying off the tracks or stopping it with your shoe...:rolleyes:. The series is full of all kinds of crazy stunts. I don't find these any more unbelievable than the rest.

The guy is an antique by now and he acts like he is 20...hell I can hurt myself getting out of bed wrong and this guy is flying through the air on a whip and landing through the windshield of a truck...

I thought they gave a few nod to his age while still including just enough action. Plus this IS a guy who drank from the Grail, which is supposed to have certain life & longevity enhancing properties.;)

Nah Moon, I'm with ya.

Glad you & Bass feel the same. Thought it was just me.

EvilNed

09-Jul-2009, 11:30 PM

I read a great thing about CGI the other day. Why is it not so special anymore?

Well, because let's think about it. Before there was CGI, and some film pulled off this awesome effect, that you had no IDEA of how they did, you were all like "oh shit, how did they do THAT?!". But these days, it's just "Oh, more CGI. Someone sat infront of the computer and did that... and that... And that... Oh, and there too. Why did he do that too?"

Doc

10-Jul-2009, 12:19 AM

He's still the coolest bounty hunter in the series. I mean...it's either him or that lizard dude in the yellow jumpsuit.:p

Boba Fett most be one of the most overrated characters in the franchise. Seriously, him diying in ´Jedi´ is one of the things people bitch about. But, honestly what does it matter? He´s not really to relavant to the story. You could replace him with any other bounty hunter and it wouldn´t make a difference. He does have a cool voice though. Sadly, that got changed too.

blind2d

10-Jul-2009, 12:25 AM

Good point, Ned. CGI is overplayed. Don't know when movies will really surprise me again.... sad thought, actually.
ToD is my favorite Indy film, just because it's so funny!
Crystal Skull was better than I thought it would be.

MaximusIncredulous

10-Jul-2009, 12:39 AM

At least KOTCS didn't inspire Lucas to "tweak" the originals and, yeah, the fridge part was weak but so was the mine car jump or the raft air drop (repeated twice no less!) in ToD. Guess that's what makes Indy Indy.

bassman

10-Jul-2009, 11:42 AM

Boba Fett most be one of the most overrated characters in the franchise. Seriously, him diying in ´Jedi´ is one of the things people bitch about. But, honestly what does it matter? He´s not really to relavant to the story. You could replace him with any other bounty hunter and it wouldn´t make a difference. He does have a cool voice though. Sadly, that got changed too.

He's just badass, man. That's all there is to it. He doesn't need to speak in order to get his point across.:p Seriously though...I just think his costume/suit is one of the coolest things in the trilogy. Cooler than Vader's even. The prequels and the backstory given to him kinda scale down how cool he was when he was still a mystery, though.

capncnut

10-Jul-2009, 02:51 PM

Boba Fett most be one of the most overrated characters in the franchise.
Say that when he marches your scrawny ass before Darth Vader for a nice ol' force choke session. :D

bassman

10-Jul-2009, 04:20 PM

MoonSylver

10-Jul-2009, 04:37 PM

He's just badass, man. That's all there is to it. He doesn't need to speak in order to get his point across.:p Seriously though...I just think his costume/suit is one of the coolest things in the trilogy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5KspDlQ-rlY/SYS73CQGHhI/AAAAAAAAAP4/ueF-hmCntqI/s400/boba%2Bfett%2Bpopularity%2B2.JPG

I was just thinking about what someone mentioned earlier in the thread and this has to be the biggest f*ck up Lucas could have made in these special editions:

I know it was done in the late 90's, but the cgi is horrible! Is it just me, or do Han's fingers disappear into Jabba's neck?!? And he "steps" on Jabba's tail.:rolleyes: This scene was never needed in the story and there was absolutely no reason to include it in the special edition other than to show off their not-so-good CGI.

It's just horrible...

True. It was just cool to see the lost scene/footage to me though. I always wished they'ed added all the Bigg's stuff back in too. Dunno why, just would have like to see it included.

darth los

10-Jul-2009, 05:07 PM

I was just thinking about what someone mentioned earlier in the thread and this has to be the biggest f*ck up Lucas could have made in these special editions:

7eCg0rGfH-w&hl=en&fs=1&

I know it was done in the late 90's, but the cgi is horrible! Is it just me, or do Han's fingers disappear into Jabba's neck?!? And he "steps" on Jabba's tail.:rolleyes: This scene was never needed in the story and there was absolutely no reason to include it in the special edition other than to show off their not-so-good CGI.

It's just horrible...

Well, we'll just call that Lucas' NOTLD 30th anny edition. Because both films butchered classics and are littered with scenes that as you said they didn't need or displayed laughable "special" effects. (C'mon now, I know you haven't forgotten how they made hinzman up in that turd that quickly did ya?)

There's nothing special about those effects.

:cool:

Doc

14-Jul-2009, 12:23 AM

Say that when he marches your scrawny ass before Darth Vader for a nice ol' force choke session. :D

Ya mean like, Captain Needa!:eek:

http://www.mwilliams.info/images/needa2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5KspDlQ-rlY/SYS73CQGHhI/AAAAAAAAAP4/ueF-hmCntqI/s400/boba%2Bfett%2Bpopularity%2B2.JPG

Ok, I´ll admit it. He does have a cool suit...and ship...and as, I stated voice...

About, that Jabba scene. Think Lucas will ever release the original version with Declan Mulholland? Probably not.

MoonSylver

14-Jul-2009, 04:46 AM

MaximusIncredulous

14-Jul-2009, 05:10 AM

One good thing they did at least was got rid of THIS guy:

http://agoldenworld.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/palpatineoldholog2.jpg

And replaced him with the REAL Emperor!:

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/03/Emperor-Palpatine.jpg

Uhhh, no.

No, no, no, no, no.

The original Emperor was like an evil Ben Kenobi. That guy was scary, smart, and very cool. The ROTJ Emperor was a joke. A bad Fu Manchu imitation sans mustache.

MoonSylver

14-Jul-2009, 05:40 AM

Uhhh, no.

No, no, no, no, no.

The original Emperor was like an evil Ben Kenobi. That guy was scary, smart, and very cool. The ROTJ Emperor was a joke. A bad Fu Manchu imitation sans mustache.

Bah. Ian McDiarmid rules. Every line rolls off his tongue dripping w/ evil, scorn & contempt. Bug eyed alien guy? He sounds like a bored narcoleptic on downers. No think you sir. Ian McDiarmid kicked ass.

EvilNed

14-Jul-2009, 09:11 AM

shootemindehead

14-Jul-2009, 10:39 AM

Whats the hate with the Star Wars Special Editions?

Because the changes were bloody awful for the most part and completely un-necessary.

Putting Jabba in 'A New Hope' was pointless (other than satisfying a bug bear that Lucas had since 1977). He looks crap too. The puppet in the original 'Return of the Jedi' is far more realistic. It simply takes from the overall film.

The "Greedo shoots first" idea was also a truly terrible idea and weakens Han Solo's character considerably. Harrison Ford's character is easilly the best one in the entire series, even if he does turn into a pussy at the end. But making Greedo shoot first just destroys the entire scene. It simply looks unrealisticm whereas the original looked fine.

The souped up space battle at the end though, was a good idea and helped flesh out that particular scene.

Apart from Luke's squeal, there was nothing to bad about 'The Empre Strikes Back'.

But, 'Return of the Jedi' was absolutely raped by Lucas. That musical number in Jabba's palace was terrible. Absolutely terrible. And the decision to replace the dead characters at the end, plus getting rid of the original Ewok song "nub nub" (or whatever) was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Also, my take on CGI...

CGI has to be subtle. It should be incidental. Also, it should obey the laws of reality and that's where it falls over quite often.

The "new" 'Star Wars' trilogy was ruined by its CGI saturation. People doing ridiculous things that were phyiscally impossible (even for Jedi's :D ). It just destroyed the suspension of disbelief. Especially that awful, awful Yoda fight with Darth Bollox (or whatever he was called). A terrible idea, poorly executed and the stupid pod race scene. Ugh...

Likewise the fridge scene in Indy 4. I simply couldn't believe my eyes. Simple fact is, even though Indy can survive going under a truck in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', or survive a split rope bridge in 'Temple of Doom', there is a chance (albeit slim) of getting through those kind of scrapes. But, you just would NOT survive being thrown through the air by a nuclear explosion...in a fridge. The impact on the ground alone would have killed anyone.

It's just a bad decision.

Another thing about CGI...everything looks too new. With the use of models in the original 'Star Wars' trilogy, everything looked used and dirty. Things looked like they had a function. The Milenium Falcon looked like a bit of equipment that might actually fly.

Compare that to the shiny space ship in 'The Phantom Menace'. :rolleyes:

MoonSylver

14-Jul-2009, 04:51 PM

I think the "original" Emperor sounds as if he's much more in control of stuff than Ian McDiarmid does. I actually always thought that he was a bit cooler. I could never really buy into that Ian McDiarmid's emperor was an... Emperor! He seemed a bit too loony for me.

Of course he's loony...he's a Sith Lord!:D

Seriously though, I found him to be quite scheming & devious, along with twisted & evil. That was one of the GOOD things about Ep's 1-3 is that you REALLY get a good look at Palpatine & his rise to power. I thought that part was handled extremely well & that McDiarmid was really great in the part.

Another thing about CGI...everything looks too new. With the use of models in the original 'Star Wars' trilogy, everything looked used and dirty. Things looked like they had a function. The Milenium Falcon looked like a bit of equipment that might actually fly.

Compare that to the shiny space ship in 'The Phantom Menace'. :rolleyes:

Eh...back in that era, of the pre-Empire, everything WAS new & shiny, so I would think that was more of a visual style choice. In the Republic every thing looks bright & utopia like vs the run down, darker looking Empire.

Plus it's the ship of the Queen of Naboo vs a broken down freighter owned by a smuggler, so I would expect one to look newer & shinier than the other.;)

shootemindehead

15-Jul-2009, 12:01 AM

Eh...back in that era, of the pre-Empire, everything WAS new & shiny, so I would think that was more of a visual style choice. In the Republic every thing looks bright & utopia like vs the run down, darker looking Empire.

Plus it's the ship of the Queen of Naboo vs a broken down freighter owned by a smuggler, so I would expect one to look newer & shinier than the other.;)

Well, perhaps. But it remains very difficult to recreate that tactile appearance with CGI, that can be achieved with good model work. The bottom line is, things just look fake.

Doc

16-Jul-2009, 04:53 PM

Seriously though, I found him to be quite scheming & devious, along with twisted & evil. That was one of the GOOD things about Ep's 1-3 is that you REALLY get a good look at Palpatine & his rise to power. I thought that part was handled extremely well & that McDiarmid was really great in the part.

Indeed! He stole the show in Episode 3 imo. Speaking of Episode 3, I say it was the best film outta the prequel trilogy. Heck, I´ll even go on saying it was the closest to original trilogy status for me.

bassman

16-Jul-2009, 04:58 PM

EvilNed

16-Jul-2009, 05:21 PM

Indeed! He stole the show in Episode 3 imo. Speaking of Episode 3, I say it was the best film outta the prequel trilogy. Heck, I´ll even go on saying it was the closest to original trilogy status for me.

I've actually only found one person who agrees with me on the prequels that Episode 3 is a horrible shitfest of a film, but that Episode 1 is at least bearable and has some spirit of adventure in it. So I'm not surprised to find yet another one gone astray... ;)

AcesandEights

16-Jul-2009, 05:26 PM

Second.

The prequels are rated in the opposite order for me. 3rd's the best, then 2, then 1.

I'm tempted to agree with you, but 3 was wretched. Yes, it had traces of the original trilogy, as though there was some bumbling intent to tie it all up neatly, but the heavy handed approach to the one-note plot and the odious acting that comes bubbling up to the surface makes the third film unwatchable for me in just about every respect, which is not the case for the 2nd film in the series (I can watch some of it) and--to a lesser degree--the first film (only the light saber duels are worth watching).

Of course, Anakin getting his legs whacked off by Kenobi was cool...but then I think about how well that fight could have been handled and it spoils it for me.

MoonSylver

17-Jul-2009, 12:09 AM

Second.

The prequels are rated in the opposite order for me. 3rd's the best, then 2, then 1.

That's about it for me too. It's hard for me to rate them or quantify my feelings on them sinse there's some things I REALLY like about them & some things that I REALLY DON'T, so it's a mixed bag I guess.

blind2d

17-Jul-2009, 12:25 AM

Yeah, same here. Am I the only one who thought the Podraces were cool?

EvilNed

17-Jul-2009, 12:44 AM

Yeah, same here. Am I the only one who thought the Podraces were cool?

Best action sequence in the Prequel trilogy. Infact, it's the only action sequence that stands out. Maybe that final battle in Episode 2 gets some points too, but it was way too long.

MaximusIncredulous

17-Jul-2009, 02:16 AM

Yeah, same here. Am I the only one who thought the Podraces were cool?

If it weren't for the pod race and Neeson TPM would be toilet paper. The pod racers were the only bit of technology in the silly prequels that had a touch of the worn out feel introed by the original SW.

clanglee

17-Jul-2009, 02:28 AM

I'm tempted to agree with you, but 3 was wretched. Yes, it had traces of the original trilogy, as though there was some bumbling intent to tie it all up neatly, but the heavy handed approach to the one-note plot and the odious acting that comes bubbling up to the surface makes the third film unwatchable for me in just about every respect, which is not the case for the 2nd film in the series (I can watch some of it) and--to a lesser degree--the first film (only the light saber duels are worth watching).

Of course, Anakin getting his legs whacked off by Kenobi was cool...but then I think about how well that fight could have been handled and it spoils it for me.

http://purethinking.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ee2334e88340111689a315e970c-400wi
Word to your mother!!

bassman

17-Jul-2009, 12:03 PM

Was anyone else kind of shoked by the fact that Anakin made C3PO?

That just seemed like a bad excuse to have the robots in the prequels...

AcesandEights

17-Jul-2009, 02:53 PM

Was anyone else kind of shoked by the fact that Anakin made C3PO?

That just seemed like a bad excuse to have the robots in the prequels...

To paraphrase in a Clanglee-esque fashion...

http://purethinking.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ee2334e88340111689a315e970c-400wi
Word to your mother!!

Word to your mother indeed, sir!

Doc

17-Jul-2009, 03:59 PM

I've actually only found one person who agrees with me on the prequels that Episode 3 is a horrible shitfest of a film, but that Episode 1 is at least bearable and has some spirit of adventure in it. So I'm not surprised to find yet another one gone astray... ;)

Your the first person, I've seen so far that have said anything good about Episode 1. :stunned: I will agree that it gets just a tad to crapped on. Its not the worst film ever made as, some make it out to be.:rolleyes: There are just some aspects that just didn't work. :annoyed: I heard their gonna replace Phantom Menace Yoda puppet with a cgi Yoda...that true...if it is its one of the few instances where I prefer cgi to puppets.

shootemindehead

20-Jul-2009, 03:26 PM

Hated the podrace. Bloody stupid idea. OK, Anakin may have millions of mediclorians (who the F came up with that nonsense?), but he's still a fecking child!!! Ridiculous concept.

The first episode was rubbish, with Jar Jar (oh my god!), those Roger Roger droids and everything else. But, for me, the second episode was the worst one. That was an absolute mess of a film, with nothing remotely convincing about it and as for the "romance" between the central characters? Forget it. I have more of a convincing relationship with Natalie Portman.

On top of it all, though, was the truly incredible decision to go with Hayden Christensen as the teenage Anikin Skywalker. The yoda pupprt without Frank Oz's hand up its arse would have done a better job. The "It's not fair" business was excrutiating too. 'Attack of the Clones' was just an awful, awful film from beginning to end.

What Lucas could have done with throughout the trilogy, was somebody by his side who had the balls to say "No George, that's a bad idea." Without that, we are simply left with Lucas' vision and that vision has been getting more and more myopic since the "teddy bear" decision from 'Return of the Jedi'.

Episode's 1, 2 and 3 very nearly destroyed the whole 'Star Wars' thing for me. It was ages before I could look at the original three films again.