Boys 'wanted to blow up school'

[Neil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8233964.stm

What I don't understand is, unless the police found evidence of them trying to actually achieve their fantasy, then how can they be found guilty?

[MinionZombie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8233964.stm

What I don't understand is, unless the police found evidence of them trying to actually achieve their fantasy, then how can they be found guilty?
Thought crimes dude...apparently we have those in Britain now. :rolleyes:

Didn't you know? Everyone's guilty until proven innocent these days...:mad:

*meanders off into a long-winded rant...* :rant:

[krakenslayer]

Umm... I'd be more surprised if they found one schoolboy in all of Britain who DOESN'T want to blow up his school? :rockbrow:

[Cinerary]

Images removed by webmaster...

[krakenslayer]

Heh!! I'm counting the seconds till that gets deleted...

[slickwilly13]

Heh!! I'm counting the seconds till that gets deleted...

Is those pics real or fake? If they are real, then when did that happen?

[Trancelikestate]

was it those awful pics from columbine?

[Neil]

was it those awful pics from columbine?

Yes... I've seen some CCTV video footage before, but I'm not sure if it was legit or not... Seemed to be, but posters were proclaiming it to be fake...

[Trancelikestate]

yeah, what magazine or tabloid were they on the cover of? the real graphic ones? like national enquirer or something?

[darth los]

Thought crimes dude...apparently we have those in Britain now. :rolleyes:

Didn't you know? Everyone's guilty until proven innocent these days...:mad:

*meanders off into a long-winded rant...* :rant:

Very 1984ish doncha think. But yeah, this free speech issue realy must be clearly defined. We have people over here actually promoting the idea of going to Washington with guns if Obama keeps going on the path that he's on and nothing happens to them.

But people getting in trouble for just thinking something? I don't care how messed up it is they are just thoughts. WTF is this Minotiry Report or something where you get arrestedfor potential future crimes!?!

:cool:

[MinionZombie]

yeah, what magazine or tabloid were they on the cover of? the real graphic ones? like national enquirer or something?
Okay, now my interest has been piqued ... what are these photos you lot are talking about? :confused:

[Neil]

Okay, now my interest has been piqued ... what are these photos you lot are talking about? :confused:

They can be found here --> Pictures of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - http://vanessawest.tripod.com/crimescenephotos.html (WARNING! Graphic pictures!)

There's also footage around of the entire event from the CCTV cameras, but I'm not sure if it's legit or not...

[MinionZombie]

They can be found here --> Pictures of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - http://vanessawest.tripod.com/crimescenephotos.html (WARNING! Graphic pictures!)

There's also footage around of the entire event from the CCTV cameras, but I'm not sure if it's legit or not...
Had a brief, fleeting squizz ... looks legit enough to me. :eek:

[capncnut]

Gee, what a swizz. I was expecting some real gore too. Cool site though.


http://vanessawest.tripod.com/geincs6.jpg

Love this Ed Gein skull bowl. It would look great on my coffee table with some jellybeans in it.



There's also footage around of the entire event from the CCTV cameras, but I'm not sure if it's legit or not...
It's legit. The video of the Columbine twats shooting guns in the forest is way more disturbing.

[darth los]

:rant:
They can be found here --> Pictures of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - http://vanessawest.tripod.com/crimescenephotos.html (WARNING! Graphic pictures!)

There's also footage around of the entire event from the CCTV cameras, but I'm not sure if it's legit or not...


Jesus Christ Man!! :stunned:

That was almost too much for my senses.


It's crazy that being a fan of gore, you look at it totally different when it's in a movie and you know it's fake as opposed to stuff like that.







:cool:

[Cinerary]

Haha, sorry, I thought gore, real or otherwise was accepted. I thought the pics of the two dead losers went well with the subject.

[strayrider]

Remember this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Weise

He used to post here, I believe.

:eek:

-stray-

[Trancelikestate]

:rant:


Jesus Christ Man!! :stunned:

That was almost too much for my senses.


It's crazy that being a fan of gore, you look at it totally different when it's in a movie and you know it's fake as opposed to stuff like that.







:cool:


i can most definatly attest to that. seeing real is way diff than f/x no matter how good they are. i can handle real gore better than most but the things that get me are seeing exposed fat, and watching bones break. especially like if your arm is caught in a crocodile mouth. :p

[Neil]

Remember this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Weise

He used to post here, I believe.

:eek:

-stray-

Yes! He had a fiction contribution about a school to! After the event we had lots of journalists sniffing around but managed to get them NOT to mention this site luckily...

[capncnut]

Yes! He had a fiction contribution about a school to! After the event we had lots of journalists sniffing around but managed to get them NOT to mention this site luckily...
Yeah, that's good cos when I first joined there were one or two sites mentioning him and HPotD in the same breath. Not the case now though, thankfully.

[Neil]

Yeah, that's good cos when I first joined there were one or two sites mentioning him and HPotD in the same breath. Not the case now though, thankfully.

Yes, it was slightly concerning that some journalists might decide his interest in this site, the Living Dead and Romero was to blame :rolleyes: I seem to recall having a number of email discussions with some of them to try and ensure that didn't happen...


On this morbid note, I'm still amazed when these individuals decide to 'go', how inefficient they seem to be. Imagine if there were one or two of you, how many people you could 'take with you' if you went about it in a organised fashion...

Maybe we should thank ourselves lucky that these individuals don't have enough sense by the time they've gone this insane...

[MinionZombie]

Yes, it was slightly concerning that some journalists might decide his interest in this site, the Living Dead and Romero was to blame :rolleyes: I seem to recall having a number of email discussions with some of them to try and ensure that didn't happen...


On this morbid note, I'm still amazed when these individuals decide to 'go', how inefficient they seem to be. Imagine if there were one or two of you, how many people you could 'take with you' if you went about it in a organised fashion...

Maybe we should thank ourselves lucky that these individuals don't have enough sense by the time they've gone this insane...
Indeed, that was a slightly tense time so it was - good job again on keeping the journo's away from mentioning HPOTD too. I wouldn't like to think what a state it would have been in if it had been flooded with every wanker in the world registering to cause trouble or whatnot.

Thankfully these psychos, despite being tooled up, are too far gone in the head to retain any rational thought when it comes to their killer instinct...but unfortunately, they don't have any rational thought left. :(

[Chic Freak]

Isn't conspiracy to commit a crime still a crime though? Like, if you were planning on carrying out a massacre but got caught at the last moment?


Entries from Mr McKnight's diary included talk of "Project Rainbow's" official start day in November 2007.

In the diary he spoke of the "greatest massacre ever" and killing thousands of people.

"We will walk into school and at the end of it no one will walk out alive... after we have finished in Audenshaw we will have to kill ourselves there and then."

After police arrested him they found a plan of his former school and a manual with instructions on ingredients to use in explosives.

... Swift wrote: ... "I will complete Project Rainbow, I will show no mercy... I will make history."

Surely this is at least some form of evidence?

[Neil]

Isn't conspiracy to commit a crime still a crime though? Like, if you were planning on carrying out a massacre but got caught at the last moment?

Surely this is at least some form of evidence?

But if the only part of this plan ever to come into physical reality is some ink in a diary which could be suggested to be fantasy? Then what? If there is not one attempt by them to move the conspiracy into actuality then what?

[MinionZombie]

Although naturally, such people need to be interviewed, analysed and kept on watch at least - and of course, psychologists need to be employed to get to the root cause of their unhappiness, as all these school shooters invariably are.

Or just get some Tango advert type guy to come along and whack 'em about the face with a reality stick and say "hey, you know what, high school isn't everything, and all those c**ts who are popular now will be losers after high school with a bunch of kids they had too early living on the dole while they re-live their glory days that are long since behind them etc"...

But that would only work for some kids ... plus you'd have to track down that guy in the Tango advert, so meh ... too much hassle.

[darth los]

i can most definatly attest to that. seeing real is way diff than f/x no matter how good they are. i can handle real gore better than most but the things that get me are seeing exposed fat, and watching bones break. especially like if your arm is caught in a crocodile mouth. :p



You've got one up on me then. I've always been kinda squeamish about broken bones,etc.






:cool:

[Chic Freak]

But if the only part of this plan ever to come into physical reality is some ink in a diary which could be suggested to be fantasy? Then what? If there is not one attempt by them to move the conspiracy into actuality then what?

That's very true. I guess if he didn't actually possess any explosives there's no way to prove that this wasn't pure fantasy that he never actually intended to carry out.


Or just get some Tango advert type guy to come along and whack 'em about the face with a reality stick and say "hey, you know what, high school isn't everything, and all those c**ts who are popular now will be losers after high school with a bunch of kids they had too early living on the dole while they re-live their glory days that are long since behind them etc"...

My mum told me this when I was in high school and I never believed her until I saw it with my own eyes when I left. I think most (socially) unhappy kids need something in the here and now to make themselves feel better, although I'm not really sure what that would be, other than a greater variety of social groups and standards!

[MinionZombie]

My mum told me this when I was in high school and I never believed her until I saw it with my own eyes when I left. I think most (socially) unhappy kids need something in the here and now to make themselves feel better, although I'm not really sure what that would be, other than a greater variety of social groups and standards!

One thing that would help, I think, is having sports split up by ability.

There was a brief time at school, year 10 I think, when they split us into three groups in terms of sporting ability. 1,2,3 ... I was in 3, lol ... but you know what, even though I sucked at sports, it was a lot more fun as I was around people who were of a similar skill (or lack thereof) as me, so it was much better.

All the thugs and sporty jock types were in either group 1 or 2, and so I didn't have to be bothered being around them, getting picked last, being moaned at or anything.

Although I was pretty good at badminton - also in year 10 (or maybe 11) - we got a choice of sports to do, and I pretty much played badminton for most of the year while the jocks and twats and thugs were off outside on the cold-ass muddy field kicking balls at each other. I was really happy with that arrangement, and - heaven forbid - actually looked forward to P.E. as a result.

Likewise, I remember another time when they split us up during a rugby lesson (which they taught wrong, by the way - I was throwing the ball correctly, putting the spin on it - the teacher demanded I do it the wrong way, sheesh! Moron...)

Anyway, the group I ended up in was essentially me and my mates, and we just played rugby ourselves and it was so much fun and I really had a good time.

...

So really - that's one thing they could do in schools to make life better for the dejected and bullied and un-sporty etc ... the sort of people who are looked down on by the jocks ... the same jocks who'll end up with a beer gut 2 years after leaving school, the same jocks who'll get what they deserve sooner or later in life.

...

So yeah, that's one thing I can think of that would really help.

[Chic Freak]

One thing that would help, I think, is having sports split up by ability.

... All the thugs and sporty jock types were in either group 1 or 2, and so I didn't have to be bothered being around them, getting picked last, being moaned at or anything.

That sounds like a great idea. From chatting to a LOT of my male friends, PE really caused a lot of ongoing angst. I hated it too but at least being good at sports isn't tied in with confirming your femininity (although bitchy competitiveness knows no gender boundary)!

I had a similar experience when our PE options were extended in year 11 and all the non-sporty/ smoker kids ended up in the same group, swimming every week in the warm instead of getting killed in the freezing mud outside. So few people wanted to swim that the class ended up being co-ed, which was also great for me as all my mates were male so PE no longer had the added fear dimension of being totally without allies (most of the girls hated me).

So yeah, I agree. Plus they should extend the kinds of things you can do in PE. Our school was surrounded by beautiful countryside; surely an hour's brisk walk in the local area would have been way better for non-competitive types such as myself. Or pilates. Or just having a big game of manhunt. *shrugs*

[MinionZombie]

That sounds like a great idea. From chatting to a LOT of my male friends, PE really caused a lot of ongoing angst. I hated it too but at least being good at sports isn't tied in with confirming your femininity (although bitchy competitiveness knows no gender boundary)!

I had a similar experience when our PE options were extended in year 11 and all the non-sporty/ smoker kids ended up in the same group, swimming every week in the warm instead of getting killed in the freezing mud outside. So few people wanted to swim that the class ended up being co-ed, which was also great for me as all my mates were male so PE no longer had the added fear dimension of being totally without allies (most of the girls hated me).

So yeah, I agree. Plus they should extend the kinds of things you can do in PE. Our school was surrounded by beautiful countryside; surely an hour's brisk walk in the local area would have been way better for non-competitive types such as myself. Or pilates. Or just having a big game of manhunt. *shrugs*
Exactly, there's so many other things you could have on a PE curriculum at schools, but they simply won't bother - and another thing - it's seemingly perfectly okay to have elitism in sports, but heaven forbid you have it in academia.

All these bleeding heart measures to try and 'help' those who bloody well don't want any help whatsoever by sticking them in with the smart kids to try and make them smarter - ironically the effect is inverse, and it makes the smart kids get a poorer quality of education, it increases disruption, and it increases the anxiety and bullying in/of the smart kids.

Yet in sports, if you're shit, you still get mocked, picked last, goaded, pushed around, threatened etc ... at least in male PE.

Yes, I remember my time in PE at school was very tribal and competitive and so on, but not in any kind of healthy way - it was always a bunch of 'pride leaders' (as they saw themselves - utter wankers as we saw them) strutting around looking to shun the 'weak' as much as possible while the PE teacher turned constant blind eyes to it.

Hell, I was so fed up of P.E. that one year I barely did any as I had an endless stream of sick notes and sore ankles (and sometimes it was true :p).

I remember another time being berated by a male PE teacher (who we all thought liked to spend too much time making sure we were having showers :rockbrow:, but whatever...) during a year 7 or 8 swimming class - why? Because I was wearing swimming goggles - yes, just because I have sensitive eyes and don't like the sensation of blinding amounts of chlorine flushed into my eyes, this makes me wrong somehow.

Had I been older (say year 11) I'd have told him to fuck off, but being a young and naive 12 year old I avoided any confrontation but kept my goggles on regardless. No way was I getting that chlorine shit in my eyes.

Another time we all got hussled out onto the rugby field in the dead of winter with a thick, freezing fog all around us ... long story short, I damn-near got hypothermia, had to have two days off from school, and my Dad was bloody furious and gave the responsible teacher a real bitching-out.

Then another time, having forgotten my football boots (annoyingly), I was ordered repeatedly to get a move on and find a matching, fitting pair in amongst the lost property bin (a mangled, stinking mess of discarding sports kit) - again, being young and naive and nowhere as beligerant as I am now (when goaded, at least), I just followed orders, got the ill-fitting boots on, ran out of the property locker room and promptly slipped on the slippery tile flooring (where was the teacher's common sense to remind me to put them on outside - and alas, my naivity was to blame a bit too) - anyway, slipped and crashed down on my arm and FUCK ME RUNNING it HURT LIKE HELL.

Limped away in agony, then FINALLY he got some common sense and ordered me back to get to the medical office.

...

Then yeah, like I said, five years of being picked last or near-last (I wasn't the bottom of the pile by a good handfull, fortunately), getting picked on, berated, goaded, mocked and so on. The only times it was any good was when the teacher has little involvement, and we were off doing something:

A) In our own, friendly group.
B) Doing something we really enjoyed doing (e.g. badminton).

Football was the priority in PE class (still is no doubt), and I fucking hate it, plus I'm completely shit at it.

I had some possible skill at rugby, but the teachers hated having to bother with that - plus they didn't know squat - they berated me for not getting into a scrum correctly (which they never taught anyone how to do - some teaching, eh?), and berated me for CORRECTLY throwing the ball (that type where you do half the throw with one hand that revolves around to give the ball spin - aka THE RIGHT BLOODY WAY TO THROW A RUGBY BALL) ... ... so yeah, that was never nurtured or brought on.

And yeah, the selection of sports was crap, nothing interesting most of the time, and just the standard stuff with equipment that was often half-broken (giving way to the inevitable rushed scrum of everyone trying to get the best equipment - which I was fairly good at, I have to say).

Sports Day - that was another waste of my time - I'd deliberately lose so I'd be written out of my three 'chosen' events during trials, so I'd then not have to bother being involved - however, that still meant being forced onto the field during the height of summer - and I'm a hay fever sufferer - plus I hate being in the sun, so it was just torture for 4 hours every summer ... bastards.

Dodge Ball was only ever any fun when it was just me and my kind of people - otherwise I'd get out ASAP and just pretend to 'attempt' to catch the ball to get back in off the 'jail mats' against the walls.

Basketball was crap ... and is it just me, or is forcing half the kids to get their shirts off totally against the political correctness boom of recent years? All because they lacked the basic fabric vests to point out who was on which team - so again - more ridicule and singling out of kids.

Track days, whenever we had them, sucked too.

Cricket was shit all the time, except for one single day when I had a bit of "Scottish luck" (as I call it) flood into my system and I managed to seriously help our team win thanks to some cracking hits...but yeah, the rest of the time - shit.

Rounders ... when it was us lot in group #3 it was okay-to-fun ... otherwise it was shit.

Badminton - the only time I was ever truly happy in PE class - the wankers were outside, I was indoors with my mates, and we were having fun with little-to-no intrusion from the supervising teacher.

*sigh*

Rant over.

There seriously needs to be an overhaul of the PE system in schools though.

[Usumgal]

Thought crimes dude...apparently we have those in Britain now. :rolleyes:

Didn't you know? Everyone's guilty until proven innocent these days...:mad:

*meanders off into a long-winded rant...* :rant:

Everybody runs.

[strayrider]

But if the only part of this plan ever to come into physical reality is some ink in a diary which could be suggested to be fantasy? Then what? If there is not one attempt by them to move the conspiracy into actuality then what?

"After police arrested him they found a plan of his former school and a manual with instructions on ingredients to use in explosives."

Either of these items alone are rather benign. Combined with the diary, the phone calls to other students, etc, they point to a conspiracy to commit murder. The actual obtaining (or sketches) of the school plan, and the explosives manual are incriminating acts, or "overt" acts to bring the plan to fruition.

:D

-stray-

[darth los]

"After police arrested him they found a plan of his former school and a manual with instructions on ingredients to use in explosives."

Either of these items alone are rather benign. Combined with the diary, the phone calls to other students, etc, they point to a conspiracy to commit murder. The actual obtaining (or sketches) of the school plan, and the explosives manual are incriminating acts, or "overt" acts to bring the plan to fruition.

:D

-stray-



Very good sir. You sound like a law student. I would know. That's pretty much how they teach us to formulate our arguments.



Shit. You've convinced me already.



:cool:

[Neil]

Surprise surprise... Not guilty... What a waste of money...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8258910.stm


Surprise surprise... Not guilty... What a waste of money..

Guess the BBC saw my earlier post :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8259565.stm

[MinionZombie]

Well geez, when I was their age an outside observer with a determination to prosecute over something-or-anything could have said I was "obsessed" (when I wasn't, for clarification) with serial killers.

But then again, many teenage boys around that time end up watching documentaries about serial killers, and looking online at websites about them - more the classic ones (like Gein (although technically he is and isn't at the same time), or Dahmer or whatever), rather than those Columbine punks - even still, just in this thread (if memory serves) we've all been having a gander at that website with those crime scene photos in them.

My thoughts are the fascination comes with the freedom these sorts of people represent - you would never carry out their actions, but their complete sense of freedom outside the societal norm is the attraction I would say. It's what most teenagers want - freedom. They want to test the boundaries of society and find their own place.

Then they grow out of it.

...

I do wonder if these kids were the sort of bullied and ostrasised kids that the Columbine nutters were.

Even still, I bet every single person on this forum at one time or another, whether it was their mind's will or not, has had a few terrifying or horrific thoughts - but there's a vast, yawning chasm between thoughts and actually doing it.

[SymphonicX]

fucking hell I think about killing people every day!!!

[MinionZombie]

fucking hell I think about killing people every day!!!
Exactly.

*twiddles thumbs waiting for thought crimes to be introduced* :rolleyes:

[Legion2213]

Wanting to do something and having the will/means/capacity to do something are totally different things in my book.

I expect that these two will probably be in more danger than those they planned to attack from now on.

And yes, we've probably all had dark thoughts about "getting even" with those who've wronged us.


AH

[strayrider]

It's all in fun until something actually happens.

Then everyone will be saying: "If the authorities knew about this, why didn't they do something?"

Catch 22.

:D

-stray-

ps -- I know what you're thinking ... there ought to be a law!

[AcesandEights]

Even still, I bet every single person on this forum at one time or another, whether it was their mind's will or not, has had a few terrifying or horrific thoughts

:shifty:


but there's a vast, yawning chasm between thoughts and actually doing it.
Let's pray, for the safety of all, that you're correct on that score, MZ. :evil:

[kortick]

I remember years ago these kids did light the
school on fire.
No one was hurt, but it was a real odd sight.

People came and watched it burn. It was a big building.

I remember when the entire annex collapsed there
were people clapping like it was a fire work show.

There were 3 kids that got caught, and they went thru the
system but being minors didnt get into much trouble.

The town however got $650,000 from insurance and more money
from the state and federal government.

Now the school is state of the art, fully wired for the internet,
loads of computers with contracts for regular upgrades,
they built a bigger pool, and installed an underground tunnel
that goes to the library next door so kids dont have to leave
the building to use the town library if the school one dont
have what they want, and more things than I can list.

All in all the officials condemn how these kids burnt the old
school down, but seeing how no one got hurt and they got
a million dollar new facility I dont think they really are too upset.

They probably paid them to torch it.

[darth los]

What I got out of that is that crime pays and if you're a minor you pretty much have carte blanche to do what you will before the age of 17.



Did i miss anything?








:cool:

[Dtothe3]

Y'know. I coulda sworn we convicted some terrorists with less evidence then those kids had on them...