Mmmm, mmm...Good!

[DubiousComforts]

Warning: Baby chicks ground alive so we can eat our omelets (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/09/03/warning-baby-boy-chicks-ground-alive-so-you-can-eat-eggs/?icid=main|main|dl3|link1|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyfi nance.com%2F2009%2F09%2F03%2Fwarning-baby-boy-chicks-ground-alive-so-you-can-eat-eggs%2F)

JJ--faib7to
Gives a whole new definition to "throw-away society." :D

[Neil]

Something IS broken isn't it... Unfortunately this is capatalism at it's worse! And while capatalism alone is at play it will continue..

[bassman]

The grinder is pretty horrible....but somehow I knew from the start that this video was made by some sort of vegan group.

I hate what happens to the birds...but fuck those vegan groups. Meat is good.:D

[DubiousComforts]

The grinder is pretty horrible....but somehow I knew from the start that this video was made by some sort of vegan group.
That's right... shoot the messenger. Those vegan groups must be the culprits. At least this time, nobody can blame PETA.

Now perhaps I'm screwed up in the head or something, but shouldn't it be possible to have our eggs and eat 'em too without grinding up 200 million chicks?

Welcome to Crazy World.

[bassman]

I'm not shooting the messenger as far as this video goes. The video is horrible. We're in agreement on that.

I was refering more to other organizations that preach that meat eaters are horrible people. It's just trying to make everyone agree with their cause. "fall in line, kids!"

Like those anti-smoking adds. They constantly play those on tv to the point that I wake up in the morning singing the damn songs. Is it going to rid the world of cigerettes? Hell no. People know they are bad, but still want to smoke. Throw an add in a magazine and show a commercial every now and again, but it gets ridiculous when you see 4 anti smoking adds during a 30 minute tv show.

[EvilNed]

This is what I always tell people whenever I meet a "part-time vegetarian" who doesn't eat meat, EXCEPT for chicken and fish. Chicken and fish are the ones who are tortured the MOST, so if you're gonna pick and choose, then choose right.

By the way, I very rarely eat chicken. Not because of moral principles, I just don't like it.

[Yojimbo]

Something IS broken isn't it... Unfortunately this is capatalism at it's worse! And while capatalism alone is at play it will continue..
Don't know if it is capitalism that is at fault here, since it seems that the same sort of production brutality could certainly occur in the socialist and communist cultures. Except that in a socialist culture, perhaps the factory workers might fare a slight bit better as far as wages are concerned.

I am not a vegetarian and likely will never choose to become one, though stuff like this really bugs me on a moral level.

[SRP76]

Well, that's how you get chicken for millions. They're a food product.

Okay, go ahead and tell me how to "gently" eat chickens, now.

That reminds me. Time to pop the chicken breast into the roaster...

[Exatreides]

I really don't care.

It's what they get for not evolving into a flying species.

Animal products have made man the species that it is today, remove it from your diet and you have to follow carefully balanced diets and read every label to make sure it doesn't have gelatin or lactate in it or something like that. toss in Vegan children dying from malnutrition while their parents protest and work secret jobs at chicken factories.

A large number of my friends are vegans/vegetarians, and as long as they don't preach to me, its fine. It's when they start trying to use shock video's like this, and then preach about how its a much healthier life style that i get to debating.

The chick thing is no different then native Americans herding helpless buffalo over cliffs to their deaths.

This isn't a product of capitalism, eating animals is a product of evolution. With out animal proteins our brains would be smaller, and we would be quiet a few points lower on the IQ chart.

If you feed a gorilla red meat every day, he'll die when he's 20 from a heart attack. Humans, we can live more then twice a long as that.

So go about having a few generations of Vegan children, I'll go about having some omnivores and we'll see who's larger, and smarter as time goes on.

[Neil]

I really don't care.

It's what they get for not evolving into a flying species.

Animal products have made man the species that it is today, remove it from your diet and you have to follow carefully balanced diets and read every label to make sure it doesn't have gelatin or lactate in it or something like that. toss in Vegan children dying from malnutrition while their parents protest and work secret jobs at chicken factories.

A large number of my friends are vegans/vegetarians, and as long as they don't preach to me, its fine. It's when they start trying to use shock video's like this, and then preach about how its a much healthier life style that i get to debating.

The chick thing is no different then native Americans herding helpless buffalo over cliffs to their deaths.

This isn't a product of capitalism, eating animals is a product of evolution. With out animal proteins our brains would be smaller, and we would be quiet a few points lower on the IQ chart.

If you feed a gorilla red meat every day, he'll die when he's 20 from a heart attack. Humans, we can live more then twice a long as that.

So go about having a few generations of Vegan children, I'll go about having some omnivores and we'll see who's larger, and smarter as time goes on.

Don't understand why some people seem to be getting so defensive? Quite simply the video shows what is going on 'behind closed doors'. The bizarre standards and processes that are being created to save a buck. No one is suggesting you or anyone gives up meat, but that maybe there is a better way for the system to work...

Think of it this way. Mr Alien lands on Earth and asks "why have you created millions of those living animals only to then throw them through a grinder?" Answer, "because they're worthless to us."

The slightly scary thing is that generally there is a link/similarity between how a society treats its animals and treats its people... eg: Treat animals barbarically, you're more likely to treat the humans more barbarically.


Anyway, surely we can all agree a system where only the $ matters does not always lead to the best system, only the one that generated the most $.

[Ghost Of War]

I really don't care.

It's what they get for not evolving into a flying species.

Classic:lol: but entirely true, IMO.


If humans were put off eating meat when they see vids like this, then we wouldn't last very much longer as a species on some salad and quorn.

[MinionZombie]

Except that in a socialist culture, perhaps the factory workers might fare a slight bit better as far as wages are concerned.

Until they tax the working class more and widen the rich/poor gap ... like what has happened under Labour in the UK, so it's not a hard-and-fast rule. :shifty:


Anyway, surely we can all agree a system where only the $ matters does not always lead to the best system, only the one that generated the most $.

Nor does it lead to the best quality food - for instance, Birds Eye and all that processed chicken meat - it was passable when I was younger, but I swear it got decidedly worse both visually and in terms of taste and texture. It was crap, why bother eating it at all - so we now eat the more expensive chicken meals which have proper breasts of chicken in them, not some chewed up processed garbage.

In fact, I think that's been a growing trend in the market these last couple of years, more people doing the exact same - they'd rather pay a little more and eat something worthwhile, rather than save a little and eat crap.

In terms of mass farming, there is definitely something that needs sorting to improve the whole process for the animal during their lifespan.

[Chic Freak]

Now perhaps I'm screwed up in the head or something, but shouldn't it be possible to have our eggs and eat 'em too without grinding up 200 million chicks?

Sorry to be a moron, but why was the egg factory full of chicks? And what's with all the de-beaking etc? I didn't understand what the factory was supposed to be producing. Were they getting chicks ready to become battery hens?

Aside, I found the grinder the least disturbing part of the whole thing. The chicks had to be slaughtered somehow and that actually looked like an extremely quick way to go. The worst was that chick that had been scalded :'(

[krakenslayer]

Classic:lol: but entirely true, IMO.


If humans were put off eating meat when they see vids like this, then we wouldn't last very much longer as a species on some salad and quorn.

I'm not a vegetarian - but that statement is pretty... well... false. :D

Firstly the meat industry is a big factor is world hunger, second only to third-world corruption. Basically, it takes many many times the amount of food to raise a cow or a chicken than is produced by slaughtering it. Enough crops are sucked up by the heavy meat industry every year to feed the whole world several times. It's also a major contributor of greenhouse gases. In theory, we'd actually be better off as a species without it.

Secondly, on a smaller scale, vegetarians and vegans actually live statistically longer, have fewer cancers and lower rates of almost all ailments than meat eaters. I live with one and I can attest that, far from the myth of the skinny, pale, sickly veggie, she is fitter, healthier and eats a far more varied and balanced diet than I do (or anyone else I know).

That said I don't think the answer to these problems is to give up meat altogether, but just to eat less of it as a species.

[blind2d]

Amen, kraken. Well said. Full agreement.

[mista_mo]

A well balanced diet including meat, fruits, vegetables, grain, and dairy products is probably the best you have to stay healthy and fit. Just lay off the sweets and you should be a-ok.

Many of the people involved in those tests likely eat a ton of greasy, fatty, sugary, salty food, and we all know what that does for the body. Eating healthy once in awhile amid a diet full of shit is going to have consequences, no matter if your vegan or not.

[kortick]

Thats not the worst video of meat processing towards animals I have seen. My sister sends me them, bless her annoying soul.

It does seem senseless to have the process be so cruel. And of course the workers are detached, thats just a coping means.

I am a meat eater and have no regrets for being one. And I know in nature that carnivores are not exactly humane to thier prey, watch any Discovery channel show and u will see that.

And yes I dont want to eat anything that hasn't given up its life to be on my plate.

But I really dont see the need to have the methods of killing these food creatures to be so brutal. There has to be other ways to do it.

[strayrider]

The video is incomplete.

What exactly happens to the male chicks after they are boiled and ground? Are there mounds and mounds of chick puree sitting outside of the processing, plant rotting in the sun?

That seems wasteful.

I'd wager to bet that the "remains" are trucked down the road to the local pet food factory and are made into 9 Lives Ground Chicken Supper.

When I showed my cats the video they cheered each time a chick plummeted from the conveyor to its doom in the grinder below.

Case closed.

:D

-stray-

http://source-www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/7/793611B.jpg

[EvilNed]

I'm not a vegetarian - but that statement is pretty... well... false. :D

Firstly the meat industry is a big factor is world hunger, second only to third-world corruption. Basically, it takes many many times the amount of food to raise a cow or a chicken than is produced by slaughtering it. Enough crops are sucked up by the heavy meat industry every year to feed the whole world several times. It's also a major contributor of greenhouse gases. In theory, we'd actually be better off as a species without it.

Then again, the amount of greenhouse gases we humans produce is probably miniscule compared to that of which nature produces. Greenhouse gases are apart of natures way, after all, and there's as of yet no proof whatsoever that our gases are changing the climate in any way (Nature can handle that part just fine). So I can't see that argument holding. What is probably happening is that we're simply moving on to warmer times, which eventually (and ironically) lead to a new ice age. Are we apart of it? Maybe, but not on a big scale. Would it have happened anyway? Most definetly. (Now even if I believe that we contribute to the worlds green house gases, which I do, there is no evidence to really support the theory that we're contributing enough to ruin the world. We'll simply have to wait for that. And even so, the world is "ruining" itself right now. Just as it has done numerous times before.)

As for the meat industry sucking up resources, that's NOT our problem when it comes to our food. The bigger thief is all the proponents of organic food, which take MORE time to grow, is LESS likely to turn out a succesfull harvest, and takes up way more space for the same amount of output. There have been instances where countries in africa, pressured by left-wing-hippie-nuts have been forced to turn away genetically manipulated food. Which is quite disturbing, because this kind of food IS the future. We CAN feed the entire population on this. We CANNOT feed our entire population on organic food.

Now when we come down to it, the problem isn't at all that we're "wasting our resources on meat". The problem is that we're overpopulated.

[krakenslayer]

Then again, the amount of greenhouse gases we humans produce is probably miniscule compared to that of which nature produces. Greenhouse gases are apart of natures way, after all, and there's as of yet no proof whatsoever that our gases are changing the climate in any way (Nature can handle that part just fine). So I can't see that argument holding. What is probably happening is that we're simply moving on to warmer times, which eventually (and ironically) lead to a new ice age. Are we apart of it? Maybe, but not on a big scale. Would it have happened anyway? Most definetly. (Now even if I believe that we contribute to the worlds green house gases, which I do, there is no evidence to really support the theory that we're contributing enough to ruin the world. We'll simply have to wait for that. And even so, the world is "ruining" itself right now. Just as it has done numerous times before.)

I'm not convinced of this, and presenting lines like "nature can handle that part just fine" as fact is a little bit un-constructive, because you don't know that, no one knows that, it's conjecture. Now, natural climate change of course is real, the question is how much mankind contributes - it's a matter of separating out our contribution from the "background noise" of nomal climate fluctuation. Different studies focus on different aspects, but the majority have concluded that human influence is a major contributing factor to the rate of change we are experiencing. The suggestion by some that we can pump billions of tons of carbon and methane into the atmosphere that would otherwise be there naturally (barring some cataclysmic volcanic event) and it NOT have some major negative effects, seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Regardless, however, of whether it's a major cause or just a minor one, that really shouldn't have that much of an effect on how we approach it. It's like a smoker discovering he has a lung tumor, and while he's being treated for it thinking: "Well, I don't KNOW 100% it was the cigarettes that did it, some people who don't smoke get cancer too, so I'll just keep puffing away."


As for the meat industry sucking up resources, that's NOT our problem when it comes to our food. The bigger thief is all the proponents of organic food, which take MORE time to grow, is LESS likely to turn out a succesfull harvest, and takes up way more space for the same amount of output. There have been instances where countries in africa, pressured by left-wing-hippie-nuts have been forced to turn away genetically manipulated food. Which is quite disturbing, because this kind of food IS the future. We CAN feed the entire population on this. We CANNOT feed our entire population on organic food.

Now when we come down to it, the problem isn't at all that we're "wasting our resources on meat". The problem is that we're overpopulated.

Well, I'm not saying that the meat industry is the one and only cause of world hunger, but nor do I accept the suggestion that organic food is. Organic is a middle-class niche market, the amount of land and resources taken up by it (although proportionately larger) is still quite miniscule in comparison to large scale factory farming.

You're right that genetically modified food is not a big problem (so far as we know), I don't have any issues with that and I'm not an Organic nut. But what is a health issue is processed meat from intensively-farmed animals pumped full of steroids, hormones and antibiotics.

[MinionZombie]

As for the meat industry sucking up resources, that's NOT our problem when it comes to our food. The bigger thief is all the proponents of organic food, which take MORE time to grow, is LESS likely to turn out a succesfull harvest, and takes up way more space for the same amount of output. There have been instances where countries in africa, pressured by left-wing-hippie-nuts have been forced to turn away genetically manipulated food. Which is quite disturbing, because this kind of food IS the future. We CAN feed the entire population on this. We CANNOT feed our entire population on organic food.

Now when we come down to it, the problem isn't at all that we're "wasting our resources on meat". The problem is that we're overpopulated.

Definitely agree on the overpopulation, there simply IS too many of us on this planet - there's certainly too many people in the UK, a pokey little island - 61 million now (officially).

Plus, what about all the land that's getting sucked up to grow bio-fuels? They're not really much good are they? Nothing that's world changing, or really going to become the next source of fuel - that land could be used for food.

Also, indeed - while not knowing much about the GM Food business, the first thing I thought of was "well surely this is a good thing - we can feed more people for even less, and cut world hunger right down, right?"

Then I saw the pathetic images on the news - after the UK gubment dumbly told activists where the trial GM crops were located - of a bunch of boiler-suited nob'eds rolling around over the crops and destroying it.

Great - so just destroy research into something that could improve people's lives, and feed the hungry ... brilliant. Bravo.

Nobs.

[slickwilly13]

After watching this video, I scrambled 5 eggs *3 egg whites & 2 wholes eggs* and ate 2 peices of toast. Egg Land Best eggs rule!

[krakenslayer]

Plus, what about all the land that's getting sucked up to grow bio-fuels? They're not really much good are they? Nothing that's world changing, or really going to become the next source of fuel - that land could be used for food.


Agreed on this point. Bio-fuels are probably the most ecologically unsound product ever to be promoted as "ethical". Most of it is made from palm oil, and palm oil is the single biggest cause of deforestation in the world. Although biofuels release less CO2, the acreage of rainforest felled to make them almost certainly has a far greater negative effect on the environment than any positive effect from the fuel itself.

[EvilNed]

I'm not convinced of this, and presenting lines like "nature can handle that part just fine" as fact is a little bit un-constructive, because you don't know that, no one knows that, it's conjecture. Now, natural climate change of course is real, the question is how much mankind contributes - it's a matter of separating out our contribution from the "background noise" of nomal climate fluctuation. Different studies focus on different aspects, but the majority have concluded that human influence is a major contributing factor to the rate of change we are experiencing. The suggestion by some that we can pump billions of tons of carbon and methane into the atmosphere that would otherwise be there naturally (barring some cataclysmic volcanic event) and it NOT have some major negative effects, seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Regardless, however, of whether it's a major cause or just a minor one, that really shouldn't have that much of an effect on how we approach it. It's like a smoker discovering he has a lung tumor, and while he's being treated for it thinking: "Well, I don't KNOW 100% it was the cigarettes that did it, some people who don't smoke get cancer too, so I'll just keep puffing away."

Right, of course the greenhouse gases that we release are harmful to the enviroment. But right now, it's more like we're smoking a cigarette once a year, rather than the two-packs-a-day metaphor most people are making it out to be. Nature still produces a shitload more greengases than we do. During the course of the 20th century, the world temperature rose 1 degree, and before that, there was a similar curve. And back then, we simply didn't produce enough green gases for us to contribute to that.




Well, I'm not saying that the meat industry is the one and only cause of world hunger, but nor do I accept the suggestion that organic food is. Organic is a middle-class niche market, the amount of land and resources taken up by it (although proportionately larger) is still quite miniscule in comparison to large scale factory farming.

You're right that genetically modified food is not a big problem (so far as we know), I don't have any issues with that and I'm not an Organic nut. But what is a health issue is processed meat from intensively-farmed animals pumped full of steroids, hormones and antibiotics.

If all the space that organic food took up getting grown would be given to genetically engineered food, then you'd have a lot more food. You ignoring this fact could easily be compared to me "ignoring" the lack of evidence against green gases.

The organic food movement could be the single most dangerous obstacle to overcome, on our way to feed the billions of poor people in this world. And the sooner we accept this, the better.

[krakenslayer]

If all the space that organic food took up getting grown would be given to genetically engineered food, then you'd have a lot more food. You ignoring this fact could easily be compared to me "ignoring" the lack of evidence against green gases.

The organic food movement could be the single most dangerous obstacle to overcome, on our way to feed the billions of poor people in this world. And the sooner we accept this, the better.

That's absolute unequivocable nonsense because Organic-certified cropland only makes up 0.01% of pasture in the US, and a similar percentage in most other countries. 0.01%. (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Organic/) :rockbrow:

Like I said, on a worldwide scale, Organic produce is small potatoes (pardon the pun). On the other hand, over 65% of the available agricultural area in the developed world is devoted to the production of cereals for livestock feed (http://www.fao.org/WAIRDOCS/LEAD/X6148E/X6148E00.htm).

So the arguements between organic and high-yeild genetically-modified crops are really irrelevant if the growers aren't even intending them for humans.

[EvilNed]

That's absolute unequivocable nonsense because Organic-certified cropland only makes up 0.01% of pasture in the US, and a similar percentage in most other countries. 0.01%. (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Organic/) :rockbrow:

Like I said, on a worldwide scale, Organic produce is small potatoes (pardon the pun). On the other hand, over 65% of the available agricultural area in the developed world is devoted to the production of cereals for livestock feed (http://www.fao.org/WAIRDOCS/LEAD/X6148E/X6148E00.htm).

So the arguements between organic and high-yeild genetically-modified crops are really irrelevant if the growers aren't even intending them for humans.

Good arguments, but it is STILL hypocracy to support the growing of organic food, yet denounce the growing of cereals for livestock, wouldn't you agree? Both contribute to a lack of food! But what really ticks me off is all the damn blabbering about greenhouse gases, which, ehrm, still aren't proven! And considering this theory was put forth in the 70's, and there have been studies, you'd think there'd be some sort of evidence right about now. But there isn't. Because our greenhouse gas output is so small compared to what nature provides.

And yes, this is besides the point of organic food, which is not that much of a problem for us living here in the west. But when people in the third world have to forego genetically manipulated food, in the same way they have to forego condoms because of the vatican, then shit is messed up because in the end: PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE OF THIS.

EDIT: Okay, to put it simply. What's dangerous is not people supporting organic food (yet). It's people opposing genetic food.

EDIT: I found this link, by the way: http://www.biblelife.org/organic.htm. It links to a bunch of papers and notes done by different people regarding vegetarian diet, and THIS site claims that various diseases are more prevalent in the vegetarian camp, as opposed to others who claim the opposite.

Who do I believe? None. I believe you'll get cancer and all of this stuff no matter if you're a vegetarian or meat-eater. I believe eat what you want, cause nothing you're eating is gonna save you from mishaps anyway.

[Exatreides]

Secondly, on a smaller scale, vegetarians and vegans actually live statistically longer, have fewer cancers and lower rates of almost all ailments than meat eaters. I live with one and I can attest that, far from the myth of the skinny, pale, sickly veggie, she is fitter, healthier and eats a far more varied and balanced diet than I do (or anyone else I know).

The average omnivore can survive off crappy mass produced food, and they can do so Easily. They don't have to count calories, they don't have to worry about getting the right amount of nutrients from vitamins or other sources. Vegans and Vegetarians have to work at getting all the right elements they need to survive. So if they are healthier, it's because Vegetarianism forces you to create an activity out of eating, instead of simply doing so.

You can't simply go out to a restaurant and get a meal, you have to factor in if you got your protein for the day, B6 ect. Much to much work to try to get out your rightful spot as top predator on the planet.

Until they can create a meat substitute that not has the same taste as meat but the same TEXTURE of meat, then their can never be a long term meaningful solution to the meat eating problem. I have eaten Tofu, Seiten and other forms of fake meat. While some of it can be tasty, none of it has the texture of real meat.

The real solution to this stop eating meat to save the world is to possibly stop eating large animals, and instead switch to a diet consisting of insects. They are high in protein, easy to produce, and eat very little.

Mmmmm
Gagh!

[mista_mo]

The real solution to this stop eating meat to save the world is to possibly stop eating large animals, and instead switch to a diet consisting of insects. They are high in protein, easy to produce, and eat very little.

Mmmmm
Gagh!

I hear that cooked insects are actually quite tasty. I think I read somewhere that there are actually places that place live maggots in cheese and eat that with the cheese.

People just have to get over the squeamish aspect of it, and then we will all be healthy, insect eating..insectivores. Is that discriminatory against bugs, and arachnids though? We would hate to offend the fragile sensibilities of the downtrodden, and mis-understood working class of the tiny, multi eyed miniature world.

[slickwilly13]

I heard that some insects and arachnids when cooked taste similar to crab. Crustaceans are the closest thing to a bug I will eat. Which reminds me, I need to buy some shrimp.

[blind2d]

Crabs kinda are big water bugs, right? Anyway, yeah, eating bugs shouldn't gross people out at all. They're just animals like fish or birds, so what's the deal? Get over it, people!

[strayrider]

The real solution to this stop eating meat to save the world is to possibly stop eating large animals, and instead switch to a diet consisting of insects. They are high in protein, easy to produce, and eat very little.

PETA would simply morph into PETI: People for the Ethical Treatment of Insects.

:D

-stray-

UPDATE:

Really, I was only joking ... then I found this: http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2357

May I please throw up now?

[Dtothe3]

Really, I was only joking ... then I found this: http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2357

May I please throw up now?

... What fresh new level of hell is this?

[Yojimbo]

After watching this video, I scrambled 5 eggs *3 egg whites & 2 wholes eggs* and ate 2 peices of toast. Egg Land Best eggs rule!
Gotta admit that this made me litterally lol:lol:

[blind2d]

Insects.... whatever. People will bitch about stuff, whether there's probable cause or not. It's human nature. As for eating bugs... I say again, it's far less controversial than mammals, fish, or birds. At least, right now. Change is also part of life. I say eat whatever the heck you want! Just don't have fun hurting living things. That's where the sickness begins.

[strayrider]

I say eat whatever the heck you want!

Okay, then.

Someone crank up the "chick" conveyor ...

http://english.sanya.gov.cn/uploads/images/200908/artic_6981.jpg

:o

-stray-

[Exatreides]

"nom nom nom"

haha. Ahhh good times