Not sick of Gordon Brown et al yet? Read this...

[MinionZombie]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_z5hT1P0X79c/Sqz5gZEHQYI/AAAAAAAAFMo/qKZxmwwTcKw/s1600-h/spying.jpg


New evidence emerged today of Gordon Brown’s secret plans for council tax hikes on family homes. A new electronic Government tax handbook, complete with audio commentary, reveals how taxmen are being trained to conduct inspections of people’s homes and tax every home improvement and room. The exposure of the Government’s so-called “e-Learning Council Tax Programme” destroys the credibility of Labour Ministers’ claims to have postponed a council tax revaluation in England.

• Big Brother database: Inspectors are hold how a new “Central Database” has been created with "pen pictures" of every home in the country. It is "easy" to gather information and "this important database must be maintained and improved" and "updated at every opportunity".
• Sizing up every garden, bedroom and bathroom: The plot size of every garden must be recorded, as well as the space and dimensions of every room inside a home. Inspectors are told to raid town hall planning departments, estate agents and developers' records. Ensuite bedrooms are targeted for particular scrutiny. Asked how to compile the information, the answer is given: "there are numerous sources of information available that will reveal clues... The most obvious is a physical inspection of a dwelling".
• Paparazzi inspectors: Photographs must be taken of all "value significant factors" and saved on the central database - though the snoopers are advised: "photographing of a person’s home is a matter than requires tact and diplomacy". Scenic views are explicitly to be taxed, with an example test explaining how to value a home with two ensuite bathrooms and a "partial view of the mountains".
• Windows tax: With shades of a modern-day windows tax, every home’s windows must also be inspected and logged – with the taxmen told how to distinguish between "sliding sash windows" and "round bay timber framed" using "detective work".

Caroline Spelman MP, Shadow Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government, said:
“Labour Ministers have been caught red-handed training a cadre of state snoopers for a council tax revaluation in England. These new electronic learning tools blow out of the water any claims that the revaluation has been postponed, and proves the more tax hikes are on the cards for after the election if Gordon Brown clings to power.

“Families face being taxed for their sash windows and en-suite bathrooms. There is nothing that Gordon Brown won’t tax. State bureaucrats are being trained to measure up people’s homes and gardens and take intrusive photographs for a sinister Big Brother database. These inspectors have alarming powers to enter people’s homes - and there is clear evidence that they now intend to exercise them.

“A Conservative Government will protect hard-working families from this home invasion; we will cancel the revaluation and abolish council tax inspectors’ right of entry.”

Spied this on the Iain Dale blog - this issue has been talked about a little bit a little while ago, and it was disgusting then. I'd thought it had gone into the long grass - but sickeningly, it's still very much alive.

Even taking out the political chit-chat opinion side of things in the quoted text ... what kind of supremely insulting nonsense is this?!

If they come to my gaff, they'll be told to fuck off in no uncertain terms. Hopefully there'll be plenty of public outcry over this preposterously disgusting extension of state snooping and tax hiking.

They've clearly not had enough from presuming everyone in the land to be guilty of something, as well as all being paedos, so they now want to tax you based on how nice you've kept your house, how nice you've kept your garden, how many fucking windows you have, and what your fucking view is like! :rant::rant::rant::annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:

Literally unbelievable.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I would hope this won't get anywhere near passing through parliament, it's so stupendously offensive that it simply can't get through surely.

*crosses fingers*

*sigh*

Rant over...

[Dtothe3]

From a practical point of view, a quick read already tells me this is damn near unworkable, if not completely corruptible. The view from a persons house effecting the council tax, does this mean I get a rebate cos the fat chick from next door sunbathes in a bikini?

I dread to think of where this is leading.

[Mike70]

From a practical point of view, a quick read already tells me this is damn near unworkable, if not completely corruptible. The view from a persons house effecting the council tax, does this mean I get a rebate cos the fat chick from next door sunbathes in a bikini?

I dread to think of where this is leading.


i would also hope that people wouldn't still for the idea of govt. "inspectors" coming into their homes, taking pics of everything and poking their fat noses into all of their things.

on another tip: how can you even justify what amounts to a search of home by agents of the govt. without a search warrant or probable cause that a crime has occured. unbelievable that this sort of thing is even being talked about and the people who dreamed this up belong nowhere near govt. policy making.

[Dtothe3]

i would also hope that people wouldn't still for the idea of govt. "inspectors" coming into their homes, taking pics of everything and poking their fat noses into all of their things.

It goes without saying really. Not to mention the amount of government files going missing. This kind of thing would turn into a goldmine for any person you wouldn't want in your house.

[Tricky]

On top of the fact its absolutely disgusting that they want to do this in the first place, if you've had an extension built, or put some nice tiles down or whatever, havent you already paid VAT on all the materials & labour etc anyway? how much tax do these fucking leeching bastards want from us? Fuel has just jumped up in price again, & when the VAT rate goes back up from 15% to 17.5% in November it will rocket up even further, I cant afford to live in this country anymore :(

[Danny]

I dread to think of where this is leading.

-me on the search for a house in toronto thats what.

[MinionZombie]

I cant afford to live in this country anymore :(

Morally and monetarily, not many of us can! But we're all stuck here.

[Tricky]

Morally and monetarily, not many of us can! But we're all stuck here.

Although due to the fact I have no ties other than family, no mortgage, no kids & youth still on my side, I wouldnt mind jacking this place in!I have a lot of old school friends on my facebook who are now living on the other side of the world & they seem to have a better life than us here, its just a big step thats not for the faint hearted & something I dither over rather than just going for it!

[MinionZombie]

Although due to the fact I have no ties other than family, no mortgage, no kids & youth still on my side, I wouldnt mind jacking this place in!I have a lot of old school friends on my facebook who are now living on the other side of the world & they seem to have a better life than us here, its just a big step thats not for the faint hearted & something I dither over rather than just going for it!
*sigh*

Innit just.

Mind you, I've got sod all money for such a thing, and I'd much rather have my family and friends, and the satisfaction next year of curb-stomping this useless and disgusting 'government'.

[Ghost Of War]

*sigh*

Innit just.

Mind you, I've got sod all money for such a thing, and I'd much rather have my family and friends, and the satisfaction next year of curb-stomping this useless and disgusting 'government'.

Agreed. I just can't see how the "Labour" government can hang on. Thing is, are the Tories (who will no doubt be voted in) to be trusted at all? TBH, the "Labour" party as it is now is just Tory "light", IMO. Doesn't matter who gets in, this country will go further and further down the crapper.

[MinionZombie]

Agreed. I just can't see how the "Labour" government can hang on. Thing is, are the Tories (who will no doubt be voted in) to be trusted at all? TBH, the "Labour" party as it is now is just Tory "light", IMO. Doesn't matter who gets in, this country will go further and further down the crapper.
I can't really abide this opinion, as the Tories today are very different from versions of them in the past - same goes for Labour. This Labour lot since they rebranded themselves, Coke style, as "New Labour" have been a totally different breed.

Each party has their set of core values that is an on-going thing, which define who they are, and why they're different parties, but beyond that Cameron really has breathed new life into the Tories after years of flailing around in a soup of indecision and toothlessness.

The oldest farts are dying off, new blood is coming in, and quite simply Labour's time is up. They were all too pleased to get voted in in 1997, but have done fuck all good and now that it's their time to get the fuck out, they're crying like a bunch of panicky bitches as they're about to lose their "governing party" privileges, not to mention the power.

I don't understand how anyone could think of Tory and Labour as the same at all, their party views are so opposed, and if anyone still doesn't know what the Tories stand for, then they've clearly not been paying attention for the last two years in the slightest bit ... even still, you can't blow all your info before a GE has been called. That's just stupid, you've got to maximise your message at the time it matters the absolute most when a big decision has to be made by the country.

Beyond that point though, it's about keeping your message clear and on-target for what you promised - neither of which Labour have been able to do, especially since 2005.

[Ghost Of War]

I'm from a generation that grew up during the Thatcher years, in Liverpool. The Tories destroyed our city, my father was out of work for god knows how long, and remember what the miners went through? I can only vote on experience, and from experience I don't see how either of these parties can get this country out of the mess it's in. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. As a voter, what do I do? Vote for a party which in my opinion destroyed a once thriving city? Vote for a party which is destroying a country? Or vote BNP? (No thanks). MP's from all sides have lost my trust, I have two very young children and I fear for their future if they stay in this country when they leave education. Granted, it seems that the Tories have had new life breathed into them, and Cameron is probably their best leader in a long time, but I go back to trust. I just don't trust them.

[MinionZombie]

I'm from a generation that grew up during the Thatcher years, in Liverpool. The Tories destroyed our city, my father was out of work for god knows how long, and remember what the miners went through? I can only vote on experience, and from experience I don't see how either of these parties can get this country out of the mess it's in. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. As a voter, what do I do? Vote for a party which in my opinion destroyed a once thriving city? Vote for a party which is destroying a country? Or vote BNP? (No thanks). MP's from all sides have lost my trust, I have two very young children and I fear for their future if they stay in this country when they leave education. Granted, it seems that the Tories have had new life breathed into them, and Cameron is probably their best leader in a long time, but I go back to trust. I just don't trust them.
In which case, in all serious honesty, perhaps sit the 2010 GE out?

There's an interesting theory along the lines of 'oppositions don't win elections, incumbent's lose them' ... it's only after the first term, by which time they should have proved themselves capable, that the new government will win one fully on their own two feet.

[Ghost Of War]

In which case, in all serious honesty, perhaps sit the 2010 GE out?

There's an interesting theory along the lines of 'oppositions don't win elections, incumbent's lose them' ... it's only after the first term, by which time they should have proved themselves capable, that the new government will win one fully on their own two feet.

I most probably will, unless someone can dazzle me with the greatest manifesto ever.
In an ideal world, a party would come along with the best ideas from each party, and actually keep their promises. But hey-ho.

[MinionZombie]

On other gubment related issues, I stumbled across this good article today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/13/labour-liberty-freedom-isa-data

[Ghost Of War]

Things don't get better; we just get used to them

Nail on head. Good article, thanks for that link.

[_liam_]

The Tories today are more of a joke than Fake Labour, Cameron uses the exact same patronising Straussian NeoCon statesman & friend of the people crap that Phony Tony fooled everyone with 12 years ago - and yet he & his supporters claim he is a viable alternative to the labour government. Kiss your interest free student loans goodbyeeeeeee

[Tricky]

But be honest, do you really want another 4-5 years of Labour after the next election?the wet libs have no chance so unfortunately its going to be between labour & tory again through lack of any other viable opposition, although I do expect the BNP will continue to gain support in the GE which is nasty but a sign of the times.
Cuts NEED to be made,intrusive Orwellian councils need to wind their necks in & yet again the unions need slapping down

[_liam_]

It'll be Deja Vu. They preach from the same NeoCon book as Labour, and they're infested with the spoilt, monied elite that rule this country (i'm talking silver spoon not fat cat). They have recycled the spin campaign that Labour used in 1997, and yet attack Labour's PR tactics. Tory MPs spent far more money in the expenses scandal than Labour/Lib, and they haven't even been in power for 12 years. They are not the answer imo

[Tricky]

They are not the answer imo

Thats where the all important question comes in though, who is?

[_liam_]

Libs get mine, I voted for them at 7% in 2002 and now it's 23%, I'll keep the faith. Not the answer either though is it?

To be honest this country has proud cultural traditions which I value, but it's pretty much idealogically bankrupt, I'm always on the lookout for a great escape

[MinionZombie]

In another tangent of "what the fuck?!" news, I heard this on Sky News last night...


People who fall ill on holiday will now be able to claim the time back from their employers as sick leave rather than paid holiday entitlement.

You wot?! :confused::rant::confused:

You know, back in the day, such a thing was called "shit luck" ... so TOUGH.

Being self-employed, I've got no idea what employees get these days (be they private or public), but this sounds like a retarded idea ... and yet apparently a bunch of folk in the public sector already get it. :rockbrow:

[Tricky]

Theres a few problems I have with the dems meaning I would never vote for them, first off the Europe issue, the dems are even more geared towards federal europe than Labour which I absolutely oppose on anything other than trading.
Second they have nobody who would appear to have a spine & they strike me as a party who would never actually get anything worthwhile done.
They seem to want the courts & police to be even softer on crime than labour who are as soft as shit already which would be a big mistake with the way society is heading at the moment

MAY I suggest that rather than trying to claim credit by predicting doom for others, the new Liberal Democrat candidate for Lincoln, Reg Shore, spells out his own party's policies instead because if anything spells doom for a political party it is just that.

Perhaps Reg could explain why the Liberal Democrats are soft on crime and believe that criminals should be entitled to money for being deprived of hard drugs like heroin in prison.

This is money that would no doubt come from hard-working taxpayers, depriving public services of investment or preventing a rebate to the hard-pressed tax payer as a result of the Liberal Democrats' support for the European Human Rights Act, which transfers moral and monetary advantage from the victim and to the criminal


my girlfriend is a dem & we often have these debates :p

[MinionZombie]

Plus I can't stand Vince Cable, he's a self-aggrandising twat who has had his snout in the expenses trough like the others who were tarred with that brush. I also found it hilarious that the Liberal candidate for Norwich North has a moat around her house, and was mortified when it was discovered in an aerial photo. :lol:

Also, I just know that the Libs - while bitching-out Labour when it suits them - would just as quickly suck their balls off in the event of a hung parliament.

They're too big to be a pressure group, and far too small to be a meaningful government. For every one thing I'll agree with them on, there'll be ten things I don't - or certainly not on their way of doing it.

Plus the things Tricky said.

...

And Nick Clegg's a twat. :p:elol::p

[Ghost Of War]

UKIP then? Aside from the other three, are they the only alternative?

[Tricky]

UKIP then? Aside from the other three, are they the only alternative?

I like UKIP & I voted for them in the european & council elections a couple of months back, but as far as a general election goes they're too small & single issue for government :(

[MinionZombie]

I like UKIP & I voted for them in the european & council elections a couple of months back, but as far as a general election goes they're too small & single issue for government :(
Indeed.

[Legion2213]

and I'd much rather have my family and friends, and the satisfaction next year of curb-stomping this useless and disgusting 'government'.

Oh yes, and watching them spend several decades as a discredited, unloved opposition will also be sweet!

[SymphonicX]

Lesser of the three evils = lib dems.

That's who I'm voting for.

I hate that all political systems are always seen as a lesser of evils rather than bringing anything good to the table - I agree with the views expressed here about going into Europe...I would rather that didn't happen. but I'd rather see that happen than let Brown and his cronies destroy my lifestyle and freedoms any more.

[MinionZombie]

Oh yes, and watching them spend several decades as a discredited, unloved opposition will also be sweet!
:elol:

I like your style.

If only ... if only.

...

When it eventually comes to having another lefty-wefty gubment, as it invariably will at some point (hopefully, in my view, a long time away) ... then I'd rather have the Lib Dems in that bloody 'Liebour'.

But only briefly ... then, because I'm obviously speaking from my perspective, I'd then want my Team Blue back in - but a good Team Blue of course, not a team which is like "woo, we won the Ashes 2009 by doing fuck all", or something. :p

[_liam_]

UKIP is crypto nationalist/sunday fascist, They were dumb enough to put a picture of Churchill on their leaflets - they aren't smart enough to deserve power imo

And don't slag off the sainted Vince Cable :lol: Ian Hislop will get you in your sleep

[MinionZombie]

But Vince Cable is a twat ... can't stand him and his inflated ego, nor the fawning reaction he gets from anyone on a news channel ... *shudders* ... makes my skin crawl ... "ooh I broke a nail...!" ... ... woops, got into a Tremors reference there for a second. :p

...

On another issue, I was watching Mock The Week last night, and was stunned to find out something I've never known at all - the British and American measures of a "billion" are totally different. Although, unless I heard wrong, naughty-naughty on David Mitchell for misleading the audience via a joke to believe that our deficit is calculated on the American scale - which really confused me, as why would we be using another country's calculation of a billion?

American's have "A Thousand Million" as a billion, and us Brits have "A Million Million" as a billion. :eek:

Had no idea at all, I've never been told that at home or at school - why is this never mentioned on the news when they're comparing deficits in America and Britain?

Adding into this that the Pound is worth more than the Dollar, it's even worse for us!

And we're a pokey little island of 61 million (officially) :eek:

...

There's a good table explaining it here:
http://eyeful-tower.com/muse/billion.htm

Again - why isn't this constantly flagged up on the news and various other political-related programming? I've gone through high school, sixth form, university and beyond and not once was I ever informed that the Brits and the Americalanders have different measures from a billion onwards.


Both systems were actually invented by the French. Americans adopted the newer (1600s) short scale (échelle courte) system, while Britons adopted the older (1400s) long scale (échelle longue) one. The French-based prefixes of bi, tri, quadr, quint, sext, sept, oct, non & dec; correspond to 2 ... 10.

In the "American" system, the numeric names are assigned at intervals of 3 orders of magnitude, vs. 6 in the "British" system. In other words, at intervals of thousands, as opposed to millions. In the "British" system, interim names are created by adding the prefix "thousand" to the name. e.g. Thousand million, which is a thousand times of million, and a thousandth of billion (British). Alternatively, it is known as milliard.

I'm terrible when it comes to maths, even though I boned-up for the exam and got my ass a "B" grade (the highest I could get too, due to being in Set 2 for Maths) ... so this just blew my mind.

...


Ian Hislop will get you in your sleep

I'm not "up" on Hislop's political chums and affiliations, so forgive my ignorance, but are they all up in each other or something? :p

A genuine question, worded in a very jokey and lurid way ... ... such a way that conjures up an image I wouldn't wish upon anyone. :lol:

[kortick]

Ill be completely honest, I know nothing
about the guy so I cant offer much to this
debate.

So Ill just add this, cuz I thought it was cool.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/kortick/353dyqc.gif

Hope that helps.

[capncnut]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/kortick/353dyqc.gif
Should've found a GIF with a big ol' cock hanging out of his mouth instead, would be more accurate. :D

[MinionZombie]

Ill be completely honest, I know nothing
about the guy so I cant offer much to this
debate.

So Ill just add this, cuz I thought it was cool.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/kortick/353dyqc.gif

Hope that helps.

:lol:

Oh man, that made my morning. :p


Should've found a GIF with a big ol' cock hanging out of his mouth instead, would be more accurate. :D

Haha ... that made my morning again. :p