The Pacific (series)

[Neil]

I hope it's as good as "Band of Brothers"...

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[Tricky]

Yeah MZ posted the link on his facebook the other day, it does look like it will be really good although some of what those soldiers say in the trailer sounds like the typical modern world war 2 film cliches that started with saving private ryan & have been used in all WW2 games & films since!

[3pidemiC]

This is going to be incredible. I've been waiting years for this!

I'm going to get HBO just for this. :)

[ProfessorChaos]

I'm going to get HBO just for this. :)

ditto.

the usmc's pacific campaign has got to be one of the most epic military endeavors taken on by the united states, and to see it get a series such as this is beyond exciting for me.

looking forward to this more than any film hitting theaters anytime soon. c'mon spring '10!!!

[Mike70]

i'm definitely looking forward to this. hell, even it's only half as good as "band of brothers", it'd still be better than 99% of the shit out there.

i just looked this up on imdb and i'll admit that i have no clue who any of the main actors are. i also hope that imdb is wrong about the release date (as it so often is), because this is scheduled to be show in europe before the US and that would be total kak.

[AcesandEights]

Really looking forward to this. It's a bit overdue, in my opinion and I don't know if I could like it as much as I did Band of Brothers, but I hope it at least was handled well as a project.

[Craig]

Already expressed my interest in the 'Recent DVD Purchases' thread. I'll agree with Tricky some of the dialogue heard in the trailer seems a bit sickly. While he was certainly quite 'spiritual' about his experiences, I don't remember E.B. Sledge saying anything quite like that in his book, however, who knows what Marines in the middle of that sort of hell might talk about when they get a moment.

[MinionZombie]

Yep - I'm all kinds of up for this. :cool:

It'll be cool to see how much improved CGI (since BoB was done) will further improve the scope of this. There was CGI used well in BoB, but not a lot really. This looks like it'll have far more wide scale to it ... but I hope that's just background stuff, and it's still as much about the soldiers themselves as it was before - but I've no reason to doubt that it won't be like that. :)

Earlier showing on our side of the pond, eh?

Selfishly speaking, I do hope that's true. :p

[shootemindehead]

Yeah MZ posted the link on his facebook the other day, it does look like it will be really good although some of what those soldiers say in the trailer sounds like the typical modern world war 2 film cliches that started with saving private ryan & have been used in all WW2 games & films since!

"...Our cause is just...blah blah blah...." Got that far and had to stop. Simply because I knew it was coming.

I'm sick to the back teeth of bull moralising nonsense in American war movies to be blunt. You never hear crap like this in 'A Bridge Too Far' or 'The Battle of Britain' or such like. For a simple reason...NOBODY talked like that.

You're right about the 'Saving Private Ryan' effect on the modern war film and it turns everything into mush.

My dad was in the Royal Engineers and he hates modern war movies with a passion, especially 'The Thin Red Line', which had 20 year old hicks from nowheresville waxing lyrical about how war was awful. He thought 'Band of Brothers' was rubbish too. Made it look like Easy Co. fought the war without any casualties. :D

Still, I'll watch it anyway and make my mind up then.

Either way, I'm happy it's finally made and I hope Speilberg and Hanks can keep the "greatest generation" gibberish to minimum.

[Tricky]

Thats exactly what im talking about shootemindehead!all war films & games since private ryan have been filled with that mush. Watch any video of real combat from the current wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, and you wont hear many soldiers being all poetic, mushy & philosophical, and I imagine it was exactly the same in world war 2!
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Nothing poetic in there,just lots of shouting,swearing,a hint of confusion & some brave lads doing a hell of a job. Maybe after the fight they reflect on it, but im betting they probably talk about girls,take the piss out of each other,bitch about other regiments & wonder what their mates/family back home are doing

[shootemindehead]

Of course.

Soldiers are generally kds, around 20 and less. They take the piss, get foulmouthed and act like 20 year olds. They don't go on about "just causes" and "great evils". All that shite becomes meaningless when the bullets start to fly.

In many ways the "realistic" modern war film is more UN-realistic than those of the late 60's and 70's.

In any case, nobody's topped the Gerries for war movies. Straight faced, no nonsense, grim. 'Das Boot' or 'Der Untergang' are the benckmarks and they're rarely met IMO.

[MinionZombie]

I've never really seen Band of Brothers to be all "moralising" or "poetic" at all ... plus you do see a bunch of them get killed, or get screwed in the head ... you see some get limbs blown off, and there's the whole bit at the end (two bits actually) where you see who has died.

The bit on the baseball field is the second, the first is in the church while the choir sings - you see people fading away.

With BoB - if the surviving men of Easy Company approve of it, then who are any of us to judge?

Also, I don't think it's entirely fair to compare Afghanistan in the 21st century to WW2 in the 1940s. Society is completely different now, the way we talk is completely different and so on ... content wise perhaps not so much, but how you go about presenting it. Also - WW2 had normal men off the street thrown into this extraordinary situation, many men who would never be involved in combat these days now that it's professional soldiers - by which I mean, people who choose to become a soldier, rather than people who get drafted, or people who join up to fight in a far simpler type of war, but which is on a vastly superior scale, compared to today's wars.

Plus, you do see - frequently - the men in BoB taking the piss out of each other, and enjoying it when they get welcomed by a town full of hot girls, and so on. You see them scream, and run and swear as the shells come falling down from the sky ... they're not mincing around saying "I wandered lonely as a cloud" while dodging bullets for crying out loud!

Also, there's an element of story telling that has to be done, otherwise it'd just be a documentary when it's supposed to be a drama. They're two different genres.

Also ... that's just a trailer, sheesh.

I can understand why such lines would be put in, if you've got kids watching it that know sod all about WW2 and only know war to be the disastrously organised Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns since 9/11, then you've got to add some stuff in to contextualise it - and again, it's a drama, not a documentary.

A drama based on truth of course - and like I said - if the surviving members involved approve of it, then who are any of us to judge it?

[Tricky]

I agree with you on BoB MZ definitely, there wasnt really any of the stuff im talking about on that, I really enjoyed it & it was convincing dialogue! But private ryan, the thin red line, & a whole host of lesser known WW2 films that followed has all that in, as well as games like brothers in arms, medal of honor etc. They're all good films & games, but they just all have similar presentation & sentimental poetic dialogue.

[MinionZombie]

I agree with you on BoB MZ definitely, there wasnt really any of the stuff im talking about on that, I really enjoyed it & it was convincing dialogue! But private ryan, the thin red line, & a whole host of lesser known WW2 films that followed has all that in, as well as games like brothers in arms, medal of honor etc. They're all good films & games, but they just all have similar presentation & sentimental poetic dialogue.
Aye, I see what you mean.

Saving Private Ryan was a good film, but the plot was a bit iffy, and certainly some of the dialogue was very "movie". What really makes it stand out though, is its presentation.

The Thin Red Line ... I've never seen that as a "realistic depiction of war" type movie, more as a comment and lamentation of war. It's also quite an artistic sort of movie, and comes very much from a poetic place, so it is what it is and it makes no bones about it. It certainly is a beautiful film.

I think the "poetic" thing you are talking about comes from reverance that the filmmakers/game makers have for WW2 and those who fought. They're probably too worried about insulting anyone, or getting the tone wrong or something, to just leave that moralising alone.

But I think it's an element of many war movies/games/etc as they're often made by people who haven't been to war, or been in the war they're recreating.

It is important though, in this day and age where Iraq and Afghanistan have become so controversial and oft-protested against, to clarify the difference between now and then. WW2 was a no-brainer of a conflict in a different era.

Iraq and Afghanistan are in completely different contexts, and living within that context, it's important to set apart the likes of The Pacific for what they are on their own.

Also - it's just a trailer and we've not heard such lines within the context of the entire shows and series itself.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, I don't think myself and Tricky were really talking about BoB with regards to the moralising tone of modern war flicks. For a TV show, BoB wasn't bad at all, apart from a few silly bits and a duff episode here and there. My point on BoB, is the overall silly nature of the uber depiction of Easy Co. Sure, there are a few casualties here and there, but NOTHING reflecting actual losses. In fact, the only thing in BoB that illustrates the attrition in the Company is a footnote at the end of one of the episodes.

But, I think Tricky's correct and he's certainly not the first to comment on it. But in the Likes of 'Saving Pvt Ryan', which I class as a good film (with flaws), the level of schmaltz gets in the way of the reality at times. The awful framing device of the old Ryan didn't work at all for. "Tell me I'm a good man"...fuck off. If my dad had said that to me I would have had a heart attack.

I just prefer my war movies to be grittier, without the artificial sentimental yap, or flags waving in the wind etc. Or waxing lyrical about the nature of evil and all that crap. I don't think eliminating that nonsense would "reduce" a film to a documentary. It would just make for a realistic depiction.

As I said, my dad was in the British Army (like a lot of Irish men) and my mother was an evacuee from Guernsey, so inevitably the Second World War became my main pastime and I've talked to many a veteran of that war, from a number of sides and the schmaltz doesn't sit right with any of them, even the Yanks.

[EvilNed]

I've never really liked dialoge in modern war films. At least not american ones, sorry. But the germans? Yeah, they've made some great ones. Another one is Napola.

[shootemindehead]

Aye, it wasn't bad. But what I'd like to see more from the Gerries is less of the nazi angle and more unit/military based movies. Something like 'Stalingrad' with a bigger budget.

I'd love to see a film about Kursk, or the air war over Russia. That would be great.

[AcesandEights]

Aye, it wasn't bad. But what I'd like to see more from the Gerries is less of the nazi angle and more unit/military based movies. Something like 'Stalingrad' with a bigger budget.

I'd love to see a film about Kursk, or the air war over Russia. That would be great.

I like the direction you're going in, but I'd be very content with a well done series or movie based on something like Sajer's The Forgotten Soldier (http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Soldier-Autobiography-Brasseys-Commemorative/dp/0080374379).

[Tricky]

Aye, it wasn't bad. But what I'd like to see more from the Gerries is less of the nazi angle and more unit/military based movies. Something like 'Stalingrad' with a bigger budget.

I'd love to see a film about Kursk, or the air war over Russia. That would be great.

The russians are making a pretty big world war 2 movie, Ive no idea how complete it is yet but I know they were using the restored Panther & panzer 4 from the Kubinka museum in it, most of the websites about it (which I cant find now dammit, I stumbled on it on a WW2 AFV restoration site a year or 2 ago) are in russian & dont translate well, but I imagine it will get the "9th company" dvd treatment eventually :)
Have you ever seen the Russian series "liberation" about Kursk?The equipment is typical of the 60's war films i.e. T-34 tanks mocked up quite unsuccessfully as German armour, but the scale of the battles they filmed is impressive!especially in the days when CGI wasnt even thought of!
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Cross of iron wasnt a bad WW2 film either, apart from it was americans playing germans...

[shootemindehead]

I like the direction you're going in, but I'd be very content with a well done series or movie based on something like Sajer's The Forgotten Soldier (http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Soldier-Autobiography-Brasseys-Commemorative/dp/0080374379).

Absolutely and one was in production up until a couple of months ago, when the recession forced the producers to abandon the project.

Shame.


The russians are making a pretty big world war 2 movie, Ive no idea how complete it is yet but I know they were using the restored Panther & panzer 4 from the Kubinka museum in it, most of the websites about it (which I cant find now dammit, I stumbled on it on a WW2 AFV restoration site a year or 2 ago) are in russian & dont translate well, but I imagine it will get the "9th company" dvd treatment eventually :)
Have you ever seen the Russian series "liberation" about Kursk?The equipment is typical of the 60's war films i.e. T-34 tanks mocked up quite unsuccessfully as German armour, but the scale of the battles they filmed is impressive!especially in the days when CGI wasnt even thought of!


Cross of iron wasnt a bad WW2 film either, apart from it was americans playing germans...

I own 'Liberation' and thought it was well done for the time. Those sweeping battle scenes are impressive (even if the equipment is "wrong") :D. The great thing about that series of films is that the producers managed to get actors that looked like the historical source. Zhukov looks like Zhukov, Stalin looks like Stalin. Even Von Manstein looks similar. Good stuff.

The only problem, is that the DVD's are a Russian production and crap. It's shot in Russian and German, but when the German's are onscreen, there's a Russian voiceover! In other words, they didn't bother their arse to dub the film with different actors, they just got one guy! Frckin hell. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, one day, someone will do the film justice and stick it out with Russian and German and subtitles.

[Craig]

I got the film They Fought for Their Motherland the other day, it's set in the summer of 1942 on the approach to Stalingrad. Pretty decent battle scenes and the dressed up tanks didn't look too bad at all, it was nowhere near as massive as the ones in that Liberation though. I'm anxious to see it, anybody know where I can get a copy? One with English subtitles preferrably :D

Also if you could remember the name of that film in production Tricky I'd be ever so greatful.

[Tricky]

Also if you could remember the name of that film in production Tricky I'd be ever so greatful.

Found something! heres the opening scene involving the restored German armour, I have no idea what the rest of the film is about so maybe this is the only combat scene,but its well done!
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Ive found some more on it & it seems that most of the film is about the main character struggling to adjust to life after the war finished, so not the big war film I thought it was they were making,more like a "deer hunter" style thing i think, still good to see all that authentic gear being used though

[rightwing401]

A really good WWII flick (in my opinion) was 'Talvisota'. It's centered around a squad of Finnish soldiers fighting against the Russians during the 1940 Soviet invasion of Finland.

The cinematography in some areas is just unbelievable. Just the masses of dudes they get for some of the shots of Russian offensives is amazing.

They have one scene were this one Finish soldier is enduring his first battle and he sights his rifle squarely on an individual russian soldier in the masses that are charging his trench line, the camera goes into slow motion switches between his face and the russian as he shoots him and watches the guy dying. That one little bit of screen time held a whole lot more meaning of the horror of war than the whole damn film of 'The Thin Red Line'.

I also found that the overall feel of the situation was captured very well with the Fins having no air support, no tanks, very little artillery and anti-tank weapons. There was a good scene of dark humor when the Fins get word that the anti-tank weapons they've been desperately needing are about to be issued to them, only to be give a crate full of liquor bottles with special fuses stuffed in them and are told that they have to run behind the russian tanks and throw the burning bottles through the exaust pipes.

And the final scene of the movie reall hammers home how no matter what they did, they never had a chance of winning in the end.

It's a truly rare gem in the WWII film genre.

[shootemindehead]

Found something! heres the opening scene involving the restored German armour, I have no idea what the rest of the film is about so maybe this is the only combat scene,but its well done!

Ive found some more on it & it seems that most of the film is about the main character struggling to adjust to life after the war finished, so not the big war film I thought it was they were making,more like a "deer hunter" style thing i think, still good to see all that authentic gear being used though

Nice Panzer IV and ZIS truck being used there.

Pity it's and "after the war" movie though. :(

[ProfessorChaos]

just a heads-up, boys and ghouls: the 1st part of "the pacific" airs this sunday on hbo.

i, for one, am fucking excited. the USMC's pacific campaign in wwii is, imo, the greatest military endeavor in american history. the bravery and sacrifice of those thousands of young men is humbling, inspiring, tragic, and beautiful at the same time. i think this series is going to be even better than "band of brothers".

haven't read either of the books the series is based on, but will most likely be picking them up after the completion of the series.

[Neil]

just a heads-up, boys and ghouls: the 1st part of "the pacific" airs this sunday on hbo.

i, for one, am fucking excited. the USMC's pacific campaign in wwii is, imo, the greatest military endeavor in american history. the bravery and sacrifice of those thousands of young men is humbling, inspiring, tragic, and beautiful at the same time. i think this series is going to be even better than "band of brothers".

haven't read either of the books the series is based on, but will most likely be picking them up after the completion of the series.

Fingers crossed it's in the same league as Band Of Brothers...

[MinionZombie]

Fingers crossed it's in the same league as Band Of Brothers...

Knowing you, you'll have something to moan about endlessly. :sneaky::p

I canny wait to see The Pacific. BoB was truly great, and is still as great after repeated viewings ... I'll also be interested to see James Badge Dale in this, as he was in season 3 of 24, and I haven't really seen him anywhere else personally. Also, Joseph Mozello (sp?) from Jurassic Park all grown up shooting folk in WW2.

[Neil]

Knowing you, you'll have something to moan about endlessly. :sneaky::p


Play nice now! Just because I have higher standards than you :moon:

[MinionZombie]

Play nice now! Just because I have higher standards than you :moon:
lol ... nah, you're just picky. :D:D:D

[Neil]

lol ... nah, you're just picky. :D:D:D

Nah, I just have standards as to what gets past my retinas! :sneaky:

Anyway, waiting for the first Pacific review... High hopes here!

[Craig]

Apparently you can watch the first episode online on HBO:
http://www.pacificfans.com/

Whether they'll upload more than one episode I think is pretty unlikely but I dunno if I can wait for the DVD release to get a taste of the series for myself.

EDIT: Damn, seems it was posted accidentally or too early and HBO have removed it.

[MinionZombie]

Apparently you can watch the first episode online on HBO:
http://www.pacificfans.com/

Whether they'll upload more than one episode I think is pretty unlikely but I dunno if I can wait for the DVD release to get a taste of the series for myself.
If you have Sky Movies you'll get it there soon, not sure whether they'll show it on channels that all Sky users have, and indeed no idea how long it'd be until it turns up on BBC or whoever else after that.

[ProfessorChaos]

recorded this while i was at work this evening, then me and some buds from work picked up some beers and watched it after work.

pretty good stuff, no complaints. nothing ground-breaking, but it's WWII and there's tons of films/movies already out there, so what do you expect?

definitely had that "band of brothers" feel to it. all the acting was top-notch. uniforms, weapons, and locations all looked authentic and convincing. good character establishment/development so far. the action scenes were pretty intense, though it took a bit to get to them.

i've seen a few preview hinting at lots more epic battle scenes, and i believe that next week's episode will cover how basilone won his medal of honor.

on a side note, i was reading my local sunday paper today and there was an article by a woman who's father and uncle both served in the pacific, her uncle is one of the featured characters. in the article, she mentioned something about a dvd due out in may...? seems like a pretty early release, but if they're already done filming and whatnot, maybe we'll be able to purchase the series (very) shortly after its initial run on HBO.

all in all awesome stuff so far, and i'm very excited about what's yet in store.

[Neil]

recorded this while i was at work this evening, then me and some buds from work picked up some beers and watched it after work.

pretty good stuff, no complaints. nothing ground-breaking, but it's WWII and there's tons of films/movies already out there, so what do you expect?

definitely had that "band of brothers" feel to it. all the acting was top-notch. uniforms, weapons, and locations all looked authentic and convincing. good character establishment/development so far. the action scenes were pretty intense, though it took a bit to get to them.

i've seen a few preview hinting at lots more epic battle scenes, and i believe that next week's episode will cover how basilone won his medal of honor.

on a side note, i was reading my local sunday paper today and there was an article by a woman who's father and uncle both served in the pacific, her uncle is one of the featured characters. in the article, she mentioned something about a dvd due out in may...? seems like a pretty early release, but if they're already done filming and whatnot, maybe we'll be able to purchase the series (very) shortly after its initial run on HBO.

all in all awesome stuff so far, and i'm very excited about what's yet in store.
So how much of BoB and this series are based on true people/events?

[ProfessorChaos]

the inspiration for "band of brothers" was a book by the same name, and "the pacific" is based upon two books, "helmet for my pillow" and "with the old breed". all are based on true events, characters, and settings, with the latter being authored by two men featured as central characters in "the pacific".

with BoB, the series stays pretty true to the source material, but not always. here's the wiki entry's section about the accuracy of the tv adaptation:


In order to preserve historical accuracy, additional research was done outside of the Band of Brothers book by Ambrose, Spielberg, and Hanks. One such source was Easy Company soldier David Kenyon Webster, a budding writer. His memoir, Parachute Infantry: An American Paratrooper's Memoir of D-Day and the Fall of the Third Reich, was published by LSU Press in 1994 after his death in a boating accident. Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers book quotes liberally from Webster's then-unpublished diary entries. Webster's trained eye, honesty, and writing skills helped give the book and miniseries a tone not available in other G.I.s' diaries because it captured in detail the daily life of the infantryman working his way with comrades across Europe.

Dale Dye, a retired Marine Corps captain and consultant on Saving Private Ryan, as well as most of the surviving Easy Company veterans, such as Richard Winters, Bill Guarnere, Ed Heffron, and Amos Taylor, were asked for input.[7][18] Dye (who additionally plays the role of Robert F. Sink) had the actors undergo a 10-day boot camp.[18] Similarly, great attention was paid to details of weapons and costumes. Simon Atherton, the weapons master, corresponded with veterans to match weapons to scenes, and assistant costume designer Joe Hobbs extensively used photos and veteran accounts.[7]

Similarly, most actors had contact with the people they were meant to portray, often by telephone, and several of the veterans came to the production site.[7] Nonetheless, co-executive producer Tom Hanks admitted that they could not provide complete accuracy: "We've made history fit onto our screens. We had to condense down a vast number of characters, fold other people's experiences into 10 or 15 people, have people saying and doing things others said or did. We had people take off their helmets to identify them, when they would never have done so in combat. But I still think it is three or four times more accurate than most films like this."[11]

As a final accuracy check, the veterans saw previews of the series and approved the episodes before they were aired.[19]

Nonetheless, some inaccuracies did manage to get into the series, such as in the case of Albert Blithe. Blithe is a focal point of the third episode, which incorrectly states that he died in 1948. In fact, Blithe lived on to 1967

i imagine they'll probably do the same with a few moments in the pacific. but still, it'll be pretty darn close and will most likely be on the same level (if not better) than BoB.

[Neil]

Well, here's hoping!

I think BoB was probably one of the best pieces of TV (drama) I have ever seen...

[paulannett]

Well, here's hoping!

I think BoB was probably one of the best pieces of TV (drama) I have ever seen...

Without a shadow of a doubt it's my favourite, I've rewatched it more than anything else I've ever owned.

[Neil]

Without a shadow of a doubt it's my favourite, I've rewatched it more than anything else I've ever owned.

Actually, there's me asking how legit was it.... but if I recall each episode started with a interview with some of the real people? Is that right? I can't recall clearly?

[paulannett]

Each episode did start with a brief interview with the real Easy Co veterans. They usually gave their thoughts on the main theme of each episode (from what I remember). eg. In the episode The Replacements (I'm sure it's called that), the veterans give their thoughts on the real replacements and how they were treated.

[MinionZombie]

Watched the first episode and I thought it was pretty good. We've got to get used to this not being Band of Brothers, first of all, and get introduced to a whole new bunch of soldiers and in a different theatre of war.

It's not an action-heavy episode, which is a good thing really, as it lets us ease into things a bit first - although there's more action in it than the first episode of BoB (i.e. we've seen the training episode in that, so there's not really much need to see that aspect again with this crew).

I'm eager to see how the next episode plays out, as I think this first episode sets things up quite well - a solid footing to kick things off with, shall we say.

[AcesandEights]

Well, I can certainly agree that the Thin Red Line was annoying as fuck and for the exact reasons mentioned above.

[paulannett]

Watched the first episode and I thought it was pretty good. We've got to get used to this not being Band of Brothers, first of all, and get introduced to a whole new bunch of soldiers and in a different theatre of war.

It's not an action-heavy episode, which is a good thing really, as it lets us ease into things a bit first - although there's more action in it than the first episode of BoB (i.e. we've seen the training episode in that, so there's not really much need to see that aspect again with this crew).

I'm eager to see how the next episode plays out, as I think this first episode sets things up quite well - a solid footing to kick things off with, shall we say.

Where did you see it, MZ?

[MinionZombie]

Where did you see it, MZ?
It's a secret ... but I can say that ninjas were involved.

[MikePizzoff]

So how much of BoB and this series are based on true people/events?

Both are based on real people/events. If you ever watch BoB you'll see the actual real-life soldiers in the opening of each episode. My buddy's grandmother lives next door to one of the guys, in South Philly.

[Craig]

Here's Wikipedia's synopsis for the benefit of Neil and anyone else:


The Pacific is based primarily on two memoirs of U.S. Marines, With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa by Eugene Sledge and Helmet for My Pillow by Robert Leckie.

The series will tell the stories of the two authors and Marine John Basilone, as the war against the Empire of Japan rages. It also draws on Sledge's China Marine and Red Blood, Black Sand, the memoir of Chuck Tatum, a Marine who fought alongside Basilone at Iwo Jima.

The series will feature well-known battles involving the 1st Marine Division, such as Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester, Peleliu, and Okinawa, as well as Basilone's involvement in the Battle of Iwo Jima.

I read Sledges book With the Old Breed last summer, certainly an excellent read and many would say the best war memoir to date, I'd probably pick up Leckie's book if I didn't have a lot of books to read already.

The opinions of reviewers and forumgoers on the Pacific Fans website, while generally positive haven't all been overwhelmingly so, which I'm kinda happy about since it keeps me from getting overly excited myself, because despite how good it may turn out to be it's only a (very long) film after all, certainly not the be-all and end-all of the history behind it.

[rightwing401]

Been wondering about this new series. I guess I'll watch the first episode, but I hope that they will put the others up, since I don't have HBO. I don't expect it to be on par with BOB, but hope that it'll be good all the same.

You know, with the war movies that have been made recently about the Pacific campaign, I'm suprised no one has ever thought to do one about the Alamo of the Pacific-Wake Island.

I mean, just reading about what happened is really unbelievable. A force of about 400 Marines defending a small atoll with only four functioning Wildcats and a handful of obsolete costal guns, managed to inflict several embarasing defeats upon the Japanese even in their hayday of crushing victories against the Allies.

I don't see how anyone wouldn't want to hear about how a mere four Marines in a foxhole, armed only with two tommy guns and three pistols, managed to hold off somewhere close to an entire company of Japanese Special Naval Landing troops for the better half of an entire night.

[ProfessorChaos]

tonight's episode was pretty impressive. strange how they can cover the events of a battle that lasted for months into a couple hours of a miniseries, but that's hollywood for ya.

also, bailone's actions which earned him the medal of honor were depicted in this episode, although i'm sure what he did in real-life was WAY more intense and horrifying than even the most talented directors could put on screen. still pretty crazy, even re-enacted, however....as one of my buddies put it: "dude, that's almost like nazi zombies in that call of duty game."

next week's show looks like it mainly is going to be about the r&r the Marines got after guadalcanal and how they struggled to snap back to reality after their months-long battle. should be interesting.

[ProfessorChaos]

anyone else still tuning in for this? the last couple of episodes have mainly been concerned with the marines on r&r in australia and the next episode dealt a lot with the mental toll the campaign took on some of the Marines, so they weren't exactly action packed (for those of you who only watch for big ol' battle scenes).

last night's episode began the battle of peleliu, which was eugene sledge's first foray into combat. the scenes with the marines hitting the beach was probably more intense than any battle scene in BoB. amazing effects and attention to detail really draws the viewer in and makes him/her feel like they're really there. in fact, i'd say last night's episode (part 5 for those keeping track) was the best so far.

halfway done, only a handful of weeks left. for those waiting for the dvd/blu-ray set, last i heard, it's due out in november.

[AcesandEights]

I'm waiting this one out...I'll rent/but/netflix it.

[clanglee]

Yeah last night's episode was pretty intense. The next episode promises to be just as intense judging by the "next on" clips.

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, i'm loving the series so far, more so than BoB.

while BoB started off amazing (particularly the 2nd episode when they parachuted into france), there was an episode (fifth or sixth, i think) where one of the many directors took a much more comedic and lighthearted approach and it totally threw me off. and then there was a narrated episode somewhere in there that felt totally out of sync with the previous entires...never really got back into it, though i did finish the entire series. plus some of the characters really got under my skin (like that short little wise-ass fuck from brooklyn or wherever, almost every time he opened his mouth it grated my ears and annoyed the shit out of me).

another thing about the pacific is that while it may not have some of the famous roles and cameos (that dude who plays ross on friends, simon pegg, office space dude), i think the acting is awesome in the pacific. i heard people initially complaining about the large amount of characters and whatnot, but i've really grown to like all of them (even the crazy looking creep who was playing gold-digging post-mortem dentist in last night's episode).

and yeah, the next few weeks ought to be pretty intense, with the battles of peleliu, iwo jima, and okinawa coming up, along with basilone's re-entry into the grunts, training marines, and his actions on iwo jima (which ultimately lead to his death).

[EvilNed]

The series has grown on me. I liked all the episodes so far to a great deal. My favourite was probably Part 4 so far, tho, with Leckie in the hospital. There was just something very human about it.

I still think there are a bit too many characters, and I really only keep up with three of them: Leckie, Sledge and Basilone. The others are sort of blended into the background. But it will probably become better with repeated viewings, much like Band of Brothers.

This is a definite purchase when it hits the stores. Can't wait to do a marathon with this and BoB back to back.

[MinionZombie]

BoB was always gonna be a hard act to follow, especially when I've seen that through like 4 or 5 times now - it's scorched into my memory.

However, I look forward to seeing every new episode of The Pacific, and like with BoB, I'll be getting it on DVD.

I think that BoB had a better story arc/structure - because there were fewer characters, it was easier to get to know them, plus we saw them go through training - which is when they all got to know each other too - and then we got into combat.

With The Pacific we're pretty much thrown straight into combat, or very swiftly, before we really know anybody yet. Same with episode two - which, for me anyway, had confusing battle scenes (I wasn't exactly sure what I was looking at all the time - no doubt because of the 'organic setting and lighting' - i.e. not houses, buildings, streets etc which are easy to identify).

However, episode 3 comes along and we finally get the real character stuff to chew on, and indeed with episode 4 we get a bit more action, then we get to really examine the mental toll, and really get to know Leckie.

The latest episode - #5 - is where I think the more traditional flow of BoB will now come in. We know our characters now, pretty much (although some of the smaller characters all look the same to me, anyone else find this?), and we're now into a straight forward thrust to the finish line so-to-speak. Great to finally get to know 'Sledge' properly too ... to think Mazello (sp?) was that little kid in Jurassic Park, and now he's storming beaches in the biggest TV production ever made.

I also think a problem with the earlier episodes is that they take place over months or years - cramming a lot into an hour - the Guadalcanal episode being the one that suffered most, I think. I never really felt like they were there for a long time (as I believe they were in real life, if memory serves from the intro historical video) ... so they could have done a better job at signalling that up I think.

It sounds like I'm complaining a lot, but as I said, I look forward to it every week and will get it on DVD. I think I'll have to see if through again from start to finish once its out on DVD before I can really get into it ... right now I'm finding my way, but I think next time I'll be more prepared for it on its own terms.

Also ... is it just me, or does every episode take ages to get going? Yes, the talking head things are good ... but then the opening credits seem to go on forever (with obnoxiously long production company title cards), and then we get the documentary footage intro (good), and then we seem to get a little scene, before getting a map, and then we get into the episode ... it feels like a very fractured way of entering each episode, which I don't like. It needs to be cleaner and smoother, I think.

I really dig the theme music though, initially I had BoB's theme too entrenched in my head, but after hearing the main thrust of the theme repeatedly on TV adverts and with each episode, I really dig it now and it does what BoB's theme did - send shivers down my spine.

Still loving it, mind. Like I said - I'll need to see it all through again to appreciate it on its own terms, and once I've gotten to know the characters properly so I'm not playing catch-up during the episodes, you know?

[EvilNed]

Also ... is it just me, or does every episode take ages to get going? Yes, the talking head things are good ... but then the opening credits seem to go on forever (with obnoxiously long production company title cards), and then we get the documentary footage intro (good), and then we seem to get a little scene, before getting a map, and then we get into the episode ... it feels like a very fractured way of entering each episode, which I don't like. It needs to be cleaner and smoother, I think.

This I agree with. It takes about 5-7 minutes for an Episode to get going. First the talking heads/Documentary bit. Then the "Last Time" on The Pacific bit. Then the Title. All of which are a bout 2 minutes each.

[MinionZombie]

Aye, I'd forgotten about the "previously on" thing ... good god, more time it takes to get going. Yeah, minute 6 or 7 (out of 50 minutes average) before you get started is a bit of a piss take. Hopefully it'll be swifter on DVD - at the very least they can cut out the "previously on" sequences.

[shootemindehead]

This seems to be picking up again, with Part 5, which was probably the best so far.

It's hit and miss AFAIC.

I could have done without Part 3 in Australia. Don't give a shit about soldier's flings. Bores the crap out of me and I didn't want to know about Lechie's piss complaint. There was enough Malaria, desentery etc going around for everyone, so Part 4 was a bit of a wash out too.

I feel the actual combat in the series has been whittled down in favor of "easier to produce" material. A common problem with war films. Usually, there's a bollocks "love" story tacked on.

'Band of Brothers' suffered from the same problem. Not enough war.

We're up to September 1944 already and there's been 3 battle scenes, only one of which was very good and reaistic.

Another issue I have is the "Vietnam" feel to the whole project. 'The Pacific' looks more like something from 1969, than it does 1944. The language used by the troops doesn't help either. "Motherfucker" was a word unheard of in common 40's parlance.

In it's favor, 'The Pacifc' seems not to have gone down the usual route of limiting Japanese fighting to cliched "Banzai" charges, which were a bit of a myth (although it seemed at first to be going that way in one or two episodes). Also, it demonstrates that war turns young men into animals, not heroes. Scenes showing the killing of wounded or unarmed men and digging gold out of mouths are demonstrative of appaling commonplace (non combat) scenes that young eyes viewed on a daily basis.

Very nice to see great effort at getting the period equipment correct too. Part 5 featured correct M4 and Type 97 Chi-Ha tanks. The LVT was spot on too. So top marks there.

Also, the producers seem to have left out the usual "bad guy atrocity" too. A staple manipulation used in war movies. Although we are only half way into it yet.

I would like to have seen more time spent on the Guadalcanal campaign, which I felt was way too short. I hope they devote more time to later battles like Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

What I'd like to see is more war, less bollocks talk.

[EvilNed]

I had no idea "Motherfucker" was a later word. I do know that the word "fuck" got thrown quite a lot by soldiers, tho. I liked the Snafu reference in the latest episode.

[MinionZombie]

Plus sometimes writers replace period swear words, that are tame by today's standards to say the least, with modern swear words which carry a weight that is equivalent to those words used at the time did.

[SymphonicX]

I'm enjoying it immensely....missed part 3 last night to watch a rerun of Waterloo Road. I'm that sad.

[shootemindehead]

I had no idea "Motherfucker" was a later word. I do know that the word "fuck" got thrown quite a lot by soldiers, tho. I liked the Snafu reference in the latest episode.

Fuck is an ancient word. Been around for many centuries.

Motherfucker came into popular usage around the 60's, but could have been spawned earlier. But I doubt anyone would be saying such a word in the 1940's.

There seems to be some debate as to whether the term SNAFU, in it's present understood menaning, originated during WWII. Some say it's from a later period. Also, SNAFU may not have been originally an acronym for Situation Normal All Fucked Up. But something different.

FUBAR however, can be traced to around 1944, but there are numerous defintions for it. It's highly unlikely that Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition was the original term.

[EvilNed]

In one of the SNAFU cartoons (from that era) the presentator says "Situation Normal all Fouled Up". A professor I once had said this was the "clean" version of the term. But that cartoon is from the wartime period.

[shootemindehead]

There was a Pvt TARFU as well. Things Are Really Fucked Up.

But he's definately post war.

BTW, PVT SNAFU was voiced by Mel Blanc. Bugs Bunny to you and me.

[ProfessorChaos]

from what i've read, the term "motherfucker" came about as a derogatory term soldiers used on one another during WWII in europe. many men in the worn torn countries were either dead or off fighting, and the women were usually in pretty dire circumstances as far as finding ways to feed, clothe, and care for their children. some soldiers took advantage of these women's desperation, and guys who looked down on this coined them "motherfuckers".

that's just what i've read somewhere, who knows if it's true...

[ProfessorChaos]

another awesome and action-packed episode last night. still loving the series, it's only getting better.:cool:

[clanglee]

Dammit!!!! I completely forgot to watch the damn thing last night. I got in at midnight and I was like "Oh Noooooooo!!!!!" I need a DVR:(

[ProfessorChaos]

i know that they re-air it at least once throughout the week, check your listings. but oh yeah, this one was a doozy, won't give any spoilers out, but lots of people get mangled/mutilated/killed, that's for sure....with the rest of the peleliu battle and the battles of iwo jima and okinawa left, there's a lot more coming up.

[soulsyfn]

Caught the series on ON DEMAND, and OMG this show is amazing!!!! Everything from the acting to the story to the cinematography... its all so well done. I highly recommend it!

[ProfessorChaos]

so then soulsyfn, if you've seen band of brothers, how would you compare the two? prefer one over the other for any particular reason?

[soulsyfn]

I need to see more of the Pacific before I can compare it to Band of Brothers because that was EPIC in my eyes. The sheer length of Band of Brothers was awe inspiring.

So far I feel more drawn in by these early episodes of the Pacific than I did with Band of Brothers at this same point in the series.

[shootemindehead]

Personally, I think 'The Pacific' is doing a far better job than 'Band of Brothers'.

This series is really giving the viewer the impression that, fighting in the war, survival was really a matter of fortune.

BoB made it look like Easy Company won the war with little or no casualties. It was absurd at times, to be honest.

The last couple of episodes of this series brought out the goods though. The impact of senseless frontal attacks in Ep6 was well demonstrated. The mass attack against the lightly fortified airfield is a highlight of the series so far. It really showed the damage that just a few well entrenched men can do to overwhelming odds.

[ProfessorChaos]

wow, this show just keeps getting better. last night's episode had some brutal and disturbing shit in it (throwing rocks into the skull of a dead japanese soldier with his head opened up, flamethrowers, shrapnel to the face for one marine, etc).

next week looks like it's going to focus a lot on basilone, his short courtship and marriage, and his return to combat to iwo jima where he meets his fate. i'm bummed this series only has a few airings left. can't wait for the dvd, gonna get it on day one and have a marathon viewing of all ten episodes.

[Tricky]

BoB made it look like Easy Company won the war with little or no casualties. It was absurd at times, to be honest.



I thought BoB did a good job really, you only had to look at all the veterans talking on the show to know that they did indeed survive the whole thing, and being pretty much all based on both veterans stories & after action reports, I dont think we can dispute thats how it was for that small group of men. I havent seen any of the Pacific yet though so i cant comment on that, but from what everyones saying its pretty damned good!

[EvilNed]

There was one scene in BoB that just left me flabbergasted. The one when Cpt. Winters runs across the hill, comes across a division of SS soldiers and then kills them all with his rifle.

[Tricky]

There was one scene in BoB that just left me flabbergasted. The one when Cpt. Winters runs across the hill, comes across a division of SS soldiers and then kills them all with his rifle.

I thought he only shot the young SS lad in that scene before the rest of the company opened up on all the others that were retreating? :confused: unless you mean the scene where all the prisoners got shot in the second episode?

[EvilNed]

I might remember it wrong, but yes that's the scene I'm referring too. Capt. Winters doesn't take them on all by himself, but the SS soldiers really act like stormtroopers in that scene. The bad kind of stormtroopers, that is.

[MinionZombie]

I thought BoB did a good job really, you only had to look at all the veterans talking on the show to know that they did indeed survive the whole thing, and being pretty much all based on both veterans stories & after action reports, I dont think we can dispute thats how it was for that small group of men. I havent seen any of the Pacific yet though so i cant comment on that, but from what everyones saying its pretty damned good!
Agreed, BoB did a top notch job, and heck, the episodes set in Bastogne really illustrated the hardships they went through.

With The Pacific, I'm really impressed with Joseph Mazzello, his performance is really tip-top. He's got the stunned reaction to warfare spot-on and I'm right there with him in those moments - really powerful.

The Pacific, as a show in general, still has some flaws - it's harder to get to know the characters, especially as we're thrown into the shit straight away pretty much before we get the time to get to know them all, and with their paths through the war being more fractured than it seemed to be in BoB, and also the fact that it takes about 7 goddamned minutes before the episode really starts ... my one key annoyance with the show.

You get the talking heads and historical footage part, which is good, but then you get "previously on" which takes a good couple of minutes, and then there's the ridiculously long (but well crafted) two minutes of opening credits ... so you find yourself going "this is a 50 minute long episode, and here we are at minute 7 and it's only just started" ... ... which makes me hope the DVD will feature extended versions of the episodes, with the "previously on" bits taken out.

Badge Dale's "Leckie" really helped anchor the first slew of episodes, and Mazzello's "Sledge" is really anchoring the current episodes too. I did feel a little bit confused by the characters initially - many of them look similar, especially in the dark or all muddy and war-torn looking - but hopefully I'll be more up-to-speed on that front on a second viewing (plus I'm rubbish with names and often get confused with characters and who's who) ... ... in other words, you've really gotta grab my attention to get me to recognise the actor's name, character's name and their face - and Badge Dale and Mazzello have done so with aplomb.

I'll circle back around and say again - I'm really impressed by Joseph Mazzello's performance as Sledge. Tip-freakin-top. :cool:

The Pacific was always going to struggle a bit simply just by being in BoB's shadow, and the narrative structure is a bit fractured - especially compared to the focussed A-to-Z of Easy Company's story - but I feel that it's really found its own voice as a show, particularly in that The Pacific focusses on the mental torture of the campaign, and I always look forward to watching the show every week. Properly quality television ... the movie business should take note.

I really do hope the DVD features extended episodes too.

[Tricky]

The one thing BoB did get wrong though was the story of Albert Blithe (the one who wigs out during the Carentan battle), they got their research wrong there, but other than that it was pretty spot on!
Im looking forward to catching all of the Pacific though, either on DVD or when they re-run it on TV :) It'll probably result in me digging out Medal of Honor pacific assault too :lol:

[shootemindehead]

There was one scene in BoB that just left me flabbergasted. The one when Cpt. Winters runs across the hill, comes across a division of SS soldiers and then kills them all with his rifle.

Yeh, that was as dumb as fuck.

I don't give a damn what anyone says, that was pure hollywood (with a small h).

Utterly ridiculous scene.

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------


The one thing BoB did get wrong though was the story of Albert Blithe (the one who wigs out during the Carentan battle), they got their research wrong there, but other than that it was pretty spot on!
Im looking forward to catching all of the Pacific though, either on DVD or when they re-run it on TV :) It'll probably result in me digging out Medal of Honor pacific assault too :lol:

Actually Tricky, there was quite a lot of jiggery pokery going on with the historical record in BoB. I remember a website a number of years ago that listed tons of TV Show vs Actuals.

Also heard that a couple of the characters weren't that overly fond of the end product.

I'll have to give it a whir again. Maybe after "The Pacific" ends.

[Tricky]

Yeh, that was as dumb as fuck.

I don't give a damn what anyone says, that was pure hollywood (with a small h).

Utterly ridiculous scene..

Ive watched that scene again tonight & dont think theres much wrong with it to be fair, he was firing at a group of bunched up germans from pretty close range, wouldnt have been hard to hit the ones he did even when firing from the hip, he only hit 4 or 5 of them before the rest of the platoon opens up on them. Historically the action did happen, although obviously HBO/Tom Hanks have interpreted as they saw fit for the program. Im gonna have to read Winters book now to see what he says :p
http://widget.bookletters.com/booksite/content_img?sid=6334&ean=0425208133

[Craig]

When trying to find out what SS unit Winters 'stumbled into' I found this on the IMDb FAQ:

Band of Brothers is just American propaganda! Never could some US paratroopers defeat two Waffen-SS companies!

Well, they did For the full story, check http://www.worldwar2history.info/Band-of-Brothers/company.html The two W-SS companies may have been part of the 10th SS-Panzer Division "Frundsberg" (which operated in the area), and appears to have been composed at least in part of "Volksdeutsche" of German-Polish origin. As with most German units in the later part of the war, combat losses and forced training had lowered the quality and effectiveness of the Waffen-SS. Critics, usually long on indignation but short on substance, find it unrealistic that a platoon could knock out two "elite" companies. Well, then it might be of interest that the Germans scored similar successes against US units. In short, a platoon-sized group of German paratroopers led by a sergeant took on a US infantry battalion, ending up with taking 265 prisoners. Read about it here: http://www.historynet.com/us-armys-90th-infantry-division-the-tough-hombres-battle-in-normandy.htm

First link doesn't seem to work unfortunately, personally I think it's entirely possible. Just assuming it's true there's of course going to be discrepancies between actual events and retold history, let alone a dramatised TV series.

[SymphonicX]

yeah Pacific - just saw ep5 last night on Sky movies - fantastic episode and who else recognises Joe Mazello from Jurassic Park....? :)

Awesome show and loved ep5, very brutal and all the while completely compassionate to both the Japanese and US armed forces' plight...

[MinionZombie]

hehe, I had thought of digging out my copy of Pacific Assault. It was an alright game, that ... although the 'aging characters' mechanic never really seemed to work, or make much difference. Good idea, but it didn't make a lot of difference. The attack on Pearl Harbour was pretty epic as I remember it in the game.

Yeah, they dropped the ball on Blithe, who lived till the mid 1960s right? I wonder how they cocked that up ... I think they found out, but just too late, the episode had already gone out.

I see that Sky have also been showing The Pacific episodes a week later on Sky Three, so it seems, with episodes on Sky Premiere airing two weeks behind the American showings.

As I said before, hopefully the DVD will boast extended episodes.

[shootemindehead]

The 10th SS (along with the 9th) had been moved back to Western Europe for R+R, after taking heavy losses on the Eastern Front. These units, by the way, were the ones who managed to fight off overwhelming odds at Arnhem in September. They were far from being the goons that are represented in BoB and while there were Volksdeutsche among their numbers, that remains a pretty meaningless comment.

But, in saying that, it IS entirely possible that smaller units could overtake much larger units in the combat area. In fact, the Germans had been doing such things in Russia since the Summer of 41.

However, the scene with Winters popping shells into a large bunch of Germans in the "Crossroads" episode just smacks of "poetic licence" shall we say.

I'd like to see the German account. I'd say it differs wildly to the "reseach" carried out by Ambrose. An author I don't many good things to say about in the first place.

BoB is repleat with such licence. The biggest one being the concentration camp that Easy Company supposedly came accross. Easy Company never liberated a concentration camp. At least not one depicted in the series. They were present in Dachau, after it was found by the 45th Inf. Div. though. But, the general deceit of the awfully named "Why we fight" episode was one of the downturns of 'Band of Brothers' IMO. They also weren't the first unit into the "Eagles Nest" either.

But, as said, the overall problem with BoB, is the lack of casualties suffered onscreen by the Company in question. The indication of which, is only given in a text entry at the end of one of the episodes.

In that regard, 'The Pacific' is doing a far better job. Based on what I am seeing, I know which theatre I'd rather be in.

[Tricky]

Yeah, they dropped the ball on Blithe, who lived till the mid 1960s right? I wonder how they cocked that up ... I think they found out, but just too late, the episode had already gone out.



From what I understand they got that information from some of his comrades who genuinely thought he had died shortly after the war, I suppose thats what rumour & gossip can do for history sometimes! From what I read on Wikipedia he served in Korea with distinction & died in the 60's from a perforated stomach ulcer, I guess after BoB was made people probably did some digging about him out of curiosity & found out the real facts

[Craig]

I'd like to see the German account. I'd say it differs wildly to the "reseach" carried out by Ambrose. An author I don't many good things to say about in the first place.

BoB is repleat with such licence.
While I've never read his books I get the sense that Ambrose has an afinity for telling a story for a general reader but whether all the facts are straight, or present, is another matter. All I can say about this particular 'event' is that stranger things have happened, I really don't know enough to say it's 100% true or total fiction.

[shootemindehead]

Ambrose is what I call an "Apple Pie" historian. In other words, everything he wrote was filtered through "The American Perspective". Nothing wrong with that in general, but when historical events are viewed from ONLY one perspective, that leads to great distortion and a very biased narrative. Can you imagine the Vietnam war viewed ONLY through North Vietnamese eyes?

Ambrose latched onto a very lucrative niche in the market. One of flag waving feel good books that spoon fed the reader a particular diet. He was, however, "promoted" way beyond his capabilities by popular media as far as I'm concerned.

[Mike70]

anyone else think that last night's ep was a complete and total waste of time?

40 mins of baslione chatting up some broad, followed by about 10 mins of so-so action on iwo jima.

this ep goes into the "things i'll never watch again" bin with eps 3 & 4.

"the pacific" is tv chinese food. parts of it taste really good but ultimately, it is unsatisfying.

[MinionZombie]

I thought it was quite a good episode, tbh.

Perhaps they could have told Basilone's story slightly quicker, but then episode 8 was longer than the other episodes by a good 6 minutes. I thought the action at the end was quite good, personally.

I still think The Pacific's biggest problem is just how events happened panned out in history - they panned out in a way that isn't especially suited to film/tv storytelling, so it's difficult to juggle characters who enter and exit the war at different times, and indeed go from intense fighting, to a period of leave, or whatever ... tricky stuff to balance really.

BoB had a story that flowed in a way that was directly suited to film/tv. You meet the guys of Easy Company as they train, you follow them as they enter the war, and then through the war until it's over, with the baseball field conclusion. The Pacific doesn't have the same clear-cut straight-line story, so the plotting does jump around a lot more, and it can prove a little difficult to keep the momentum.

However, I've found myself always drawn into the episodes.

[ProfessorChaos]

last night's episode wasn't that bad, imo. it was a bit of a disappointment given all the action and intensity of the last few episodes and sledge's experiences on peleliu.

kinda wish they'd spent a bit more time on the battle of iwo jima, but with the film "flags of our fathers" less than a handful of years old (also produced by dreamworks, if i recall), i guess they feel like that's already been covered extensively. still iwo jima was a horrific and incredible battle (almost 7k us KIA and over 22k japanese KIA, with over 20k us forces wounded over one month) that should be more than a 10-minute segment in this series.

i think the dude playing basilone did a great job and didn't have too much of a beef with how he was portrayed, howver, the series dramatized his death for visual impact and i wasn't the biggest fan of that. in reality, GySgt Basilone was killed instantly along with a few other Marines (obliterated, one might say) as a result of a direct impact hit from a japanese artillery strike. his body was never recovered.

[EvilNed]

I thought last night's episode was alright, nothing special really. It was cool to see more of Basilone, tho. I felt he was always somewhat of the series stepchild ever since he left the war in episode 3.

However, to be honest, I'm growing a bit tired of the action in this series. I actually do not think it's anything special. The shaky hand-camera is old and used, the low saturation likewise. I never seem to get any cohesion in the fights whatsoever. What's happening now? Huh? What? So who's that?

I remember last weeks episode when lots of people died, and I kept scratching my head wondering why the camera lingered so long on them. Did we meet them before? Who were they?

[MinionZombie]

I have to say I've had trouble identifying some of the KIAs that are focussed on in the series, because many of the guys look fairly similiar already, but add in them all being in uniform and dirty-faced - with the chaos of the combat photography style - and it can be hard to figure it out.

Sometimes it's clearer than others, like in episode 6 when the guy who shared his last bit of water (and was rewarded by having to carry the mortar sight) got shot - I think it was clear because we saw Sledge retrieve the sight. Something like that gives you instant recognition, because I often find myself confused by faces and names in a film/tv show such as this - it's the same thing with gangster movies like The Godfather - I'm sat there going "what's his name?" "is that the guy who...?" etc.

I thought the combat was rather good - sure it's 'standard' in style now - but it's still good.

Interestingly I wasn't a fan of Flags of our Fathers/Letters From Iwo Jima ... I duno, again I had trouble recognising people, and I thought they were too long and ponderous, and the 'colour but essentially black and white' visual style was really too much in those movies.

Perhaps because of those films, as you say, they didn't focus on the battle all that much in the episode ... but again that's a problem with The Pacific - huge portions of combat boiled down to an episode, such as Guadalcanal ... you don't get the sense that they were there for months and struggled the whole way. It feels like a couple of days and then moving on to Australia.

They really needed to put in some kind of 'transition sequence' that showed the months slip by in a montage sequence, and we see the soldiers become more and more desperate and worn down.

Same thing with episode 8, Iwo Jima was a big deal, and yet it feels kinda perfunctory here because it's all circled around Basilone - which I can understand, and I 'get' why they structured the episode as such, but even still it feels perfunctory. Whether episode 9 will have anymore Iwo Jima in it, I don't know ... but there's still Okinawa (right?) to go, and then stuff of them returning home.

I think, as a viewer, I feel less 'in the war' than I did with BoB, because episode 3 was purely on-leave in Australia, and then episode 4 was mostly Leckie in that hospital, and then episode 8 was mostly following Basilone back in America ... and we kind of chop-and-change locations and characters throughout, that it becomes much harder to grab onto as a viewer of a TV show.

Indeed 50 minutes feels too short for these episodes, they all need a good 10 minutes extra and a greater sense of scale and time for the big campaigns (e.g. Guadalcanal) over the years.

[EvilNed]

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the war that much either. But it can also because of the character problems. To be honest, when I think of the characters I can only thing of three (still in the war), of which I only know the name of one: Sledge. And then there's that half-crazy friend of Sledge's, who digs for gold teeth. And then there's Sledge's older, needs-a-shave sargeant, or commander, or whatever he is (I really don't know who or what he is, i only assume he's in charge because he's older).

In Band of Brothers there were plenty of characters. I don't know WHY it is like this. It just is.

[shootemindehead]

anyone else think that last night's ep was a complete and total waste of time?

40 mins of baslione chatting up some broad, followed by about 10 mins of so-so action on iwo jima.

this ep goes into the "things i'll never watch again" bin with eps 3 & 4.

"the pacific" is tv chinese food. parts of it taste really good but ultimately, it is unsatisfying.

Oh dear...that doesn't sound too good.

Nearing the end of the series and resorting to shite like that? Bad move. I thought Ep 3 was taking the piss, but we really don't need a re-run of "on-leave/home front" stuff at this stage.

[EvilNed]

No comments on the Okinawa episode? I thought that was one of the best yet. I feel I'm finally getting familiar with the characters. Can't wait for the DVD so I can do a marathon.

[ProfessorChaos]

whoops...been busy with summer classes and forgot about this thread for a minute.

the okinawa episode was great. some good character development of snafu and sledge, horrific fighting scenes, and great imagery of night-time battles...and for fans of call of duty world at war, it looked like most of that episode was filmed on the multiplayer map "cliffside".

the depiction of the civilian casualties was pretty raw, particularly the mother with the baby and the explosive vest.

looks like next week is going to be mainly focusing on the Marines' struggles with re-adjusting to the civilian world. should be pretty good.

also looking forward to the dvd release, but i doubt it's gonna be out till november. should make a good veteran's day present for myself. my dad doesn't have HBO, so i plan on picking up a copy for him for christmas.

[EvilNed]

Considering how Japanese (or Japs) were always portrayed as monsterlike, and almost inhuman (more so than the nazis) at the time and ever since, I was afraid The Pacific would go a similar approach.

And while we haven't seen much of the Japanese soldiers, really (for obvious reasons) it was nice to at least see some Japanese who were not charging with swords, bayonetts or rifles on the last episode.

[shootemindehead]

Considering how jipped we were with the "Iwo Jima" episode, it was good to see the series get back to what it should be showing, which is the fighting. The "Okinawa" episode didn't disappoint in that regard. This and the "Peleliu" episode are the stand out of the series and far better than any of the combat episodes of 'Band of Brothers' IMO.

I have episode 10 ready to go in the DVD player tonight. But I can't say that I am that eager. It's Aug 1945 and there's nowhere to go but home and frankly, that's were the series has been falling over.

Although I rate this series are far more realistic than 'Band of Brothers' (which was hamstrung by Ambrose's mediocre source), it's main failing was that it was way too short. 'Band of Brothers' works in 10 parts because the Americans only got onto Europe in the last furlong when the war was practically over. However, 'The Pacific' needed to be nearly twice it's length in my opinion. Or else, it needed to drop the boring "On leave/at home" sequences as they interfered with material most people wanted to see.

Overall, I'd give the series an 8/10.

[EvilNed]

I'd rate the Pacific a 7/10 or 8/10 depending on the final episode. Band of Brothers being a strong 9 or maybe even a 10/10.

[Mike70]

the last ep of the pacific was amazing. great job wrapping everything up. the very end where they showed what happened to each of the main characters (and a pic of what they actually looked like) after the war was quite moving. it was also cool to find out that one of the old vets talking at the beginning of each episode is actually sgt. burgin (now in his 80s). i know some of you might not have seen it yet, so that is all i'm saying.

[ProfessorChaos]

i also thought the finale was awesome. great way to show what sort of struggles the Marines faced when they got back to the world.

lots of guys are out there bitching about "MOAR ACTIONZ AND EXPLOSHUNS!!!1", but i liked that they focused on what happened to the guys after the war.

i will agree, however, that this could have been a 15-part miniseries instead and handled the pacing a bit better.

still an amazing and inspiring series, much better than BoB in my book. can't wait for the dvd set to come out, will definitely be going on my shelf.

[Mike70]

lots of guys are out there bitching about "MOAR ACTIONZ AND EXPLOSHUNS!!!1", but i liked that they focused on what happened to the guys after the war.



i really liked the last ep because it was appropriate to follow up on the characters after the war. my beef with the pacific, and the reason i think that band of brothers crushes it, was that there was way, way too much time spent on nonsense. the whole 3rd ep about australia was a complete and total waste of time. yeah, young guys fresh from combat went wild in australia and banged a bunch of sluts. SO WHAT! i also could have done without the 40 minutes of basilone trying to pick up on lena vs. 10 mins or so of iwo in ep 8.

the 4th ep is pretty much of a throwaway too. so eps 1,2,5,6,7,9,10 are awesome. 3,4 & 8 i'll probably never sit through again. so based on that i am forced to give the pacific a 7/10 overall.

[EvilNed]

Yeah, I felt that The Pacific had more episodes which were sub-par compared to BoB. In BoB I remember only really disliking one episode, and that was the one where Major Winters took some RnR in Paris.

Great last episode, of course. I liked it. A nice way to conclude the series. Overall, I felt the series was great but it was a bit disjointed. Unlike BoB, it doesn't focus on one particular company or group of people. First episodes you've got Leckie and Basilone, then you fade into Sledge with a bit of Basilone thrown in there. That all contributed to me not really getting to know any of the characters. During the final montage I scratched my head concerning most characters as I had no idea of who they were.

Still, great series. Can't wait for the DVD.

[ProfessorChaos]

dvd/blu-ray out now. already picked up a copy for dad for christmas. comes in a steel-case thing just like the band of brothers boxset. includes 6 discs.

[krismark]

it's a good series focuses on the actions of the United States Marine Corps In the Pacific Theater of Operations within the wider Pacific War.

[Neil]

Still not got around to watching this. Band Of Brothers IMHO was one of the best bits of TV ever!

[MinionZombie]

Still not got around to watching this. Band Of Brothers IMHO was one of the best bits of TV ever!

The Pacific didn't match BoB's sheer level of quality and pacing - for one thing, because The Pacific follows the pacing of events as they happened (with periods of leave for some characters, and others not joining until long after the initial crop), the pacing feels quite strange. Whereas in Band of Brothers, we followed those guys (losing many along the way) in a more linear fashion - from training, to the drop, and gradually through Europe and indeed the war itself. The Pacific doesn't have that same tight pacing, and so you struggle at times to connect to some characters, and when the bullets start flying, you're sometimes not ready for it, and likewise when they suddenly stop for a mid-season episode that's far away from the front lines, you're set off-foot. It's 'as it happened' though, so you can't really fault them, but such pacing doesn't fit too great into a mini-series format.

It's still well worth seeing, but BoB was such a high bar that it could never match it. One thing to note these days though is - Jon Bernthal is in it. :) Oh and Joe Mazzelo (the kid from Jurassic Park) does a stand out job in the series (he's one who joins the water later than those we're initially introduced to). Definitely see it, but definitely temper your expectations.