Wounded

[Tricky]

This program was just shown on BBC, one of the saddest & most humbling things i've seen recently,almost had me in tears seeing those young lads like that & has definitely dented my confidence for my recruit selection weekend next week, it might not sound very manly but the prospect of ending up like these poor lads terrifies me.
The program starts with the explosion that injured one of them in Afghanistan,and follows a bunch of them through rehab at the selly oak hospital where all British Afghanistan & Iraq casualties are sent for treatment
You can watch it on BBC iplayer here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mzs74/Wounded_Part_1/

:(

[ProfessorChaos]

that was one of my biggest fears when i headed to iraq: the possibility of being maimed and having to deal with the hardships that would follow for the rest of my life. a few guys i know were hurt, one ended up losing his foot, and about a handful of guys i know didn't make it back. not all of them died while i was there, some have died since i got out and headed back to civilian life, and i ended up finding out through emails from mutual friends. tough news to take when you've been somewhere like that and think of how easily it could have been you in their boots.:(

some days i lose track of it, but i am eternally grateful for making it back alive and in one piece. i may have came back with a bit of emotional scarring, but that is to be expected and it's something that is much easier to deal with compared to having no legs, missing an arm, brain-damaged, etc. my hat is off to all the members of the military and their families for the sacrifices they make, both emotionally and physically, to protect our way of life.

thanks for posting this, tricky (for some reason i can't watch it since i'm not in the uk or something), but it's awesome to have another fellow on these boards who's mind is on matters such as these when some people around here are just here to talk videogames, bitch about movies, politics, etc... so i've gotta salute you as well and wish you all the best, brother. keep me updated on how your enlistment and everything goes.

[Tricky]

Cheers prof,you have my total respect for serving & going out there! Im only enlisting as a reserve in the territorial army as a mortarman (I can earn enough in my civvy job, I just want a bit extra & something different to do on weekends that means something) but an Afghan deployment is still pretty much inevitable even in the TA these days, & to be honest although I've never been naive about what happens in war, the constant photos in the press of lads with missing arms & legs, the high British death toll, and then this program really brings it home about what could happen & as much as i hate to say it because it sounds cowardly, im very much in two minds about serving now. Ive always lived a very active life from being a child, I surf, paintball regularly, jump out of planes, run, swim, work out, go clubbing, cycle, walk for miles in the countryside, do physical work etc & to have all that snatched away from me by some cowardly IED would absolutely crush me & I really couldnt live with it, im not as strong mentally as some of those brave lads are :(
If enemy troops were landing on British soil I would absolutely fight to the death, but this whole Afghan "war" has lost sight of what it was started for, and unfortunately I think our troops are making huge sacrifices like those in this program for nothing, as I think we will eventually cut our losses and withdraw when the men in charge realise they cant tame afghanistan, which means all those who died or are crippled for life gave everything for nothing. The British army are the best of the best & our soldiers will put up with any amount of shit & still do their duty without wavering, but they dont have the financial or even it seems emotional backing of the government that sent them there, and the conflict itself has very little support back home either (the vast majority of the public support the troops 100% but not the war itself) but i think we will see hundreds more casualties like these before a decision is made to either throw ourselves into it on an actual war footing with a huge push or get the hell out of there & let the afghans sort their own country out! I just hope if I do go through with enlistment & serve out there I come back in one piece :dead:

[SymphonicX]

very sad programme, I didn't get to finish it but will watch the rest tonight - It sickens me that this is happening to KIDS! The baby face on that small lad who lost three of his limbs was just heartbreaking...he was so young...like 19....what kind of age is that to lose your limbs?!

my opinion on the military is well documented and also irrelevant to this thread - but one thing is certain in my mind, the level of empathy I have for these poor boys being blown up by IEDs is massive...I feel very sorry for victims of any war.

[MinionZombie]

I watched some of this last night, wasn't intending to, but ended up watching a fair bit of the first part.

ProfChaos - try Googling to see if there is some kind of code you can paste into your browser URL bar or something, which can make iPlayer work in the USA - I'm not sure if there is such a thing, but I have heard of such a thing, so it's worth a Googling to see if there's anything out there that'll loop you around the region coding.

Incredibly tough to watch, I had to switch onto another channel at points as it was too much for me, I have to say, but I was equally compelled to watch it.

Absolutely horrifying ... this is the sort of programme the BBC should be making though, it's certainly different to all the other "our boys over there" type war documentaries, where whenever someone dies or gets seriously injured you only see a photo of them in military garb and their coffin/them weeks or months later at home.

Here though it's harrowing to see that helmet-camera footage where the guy who got his legs blown off and his eyes hurt (do we find out in part two whether he got his sight back?) ... and he's just screaming in agony, arms flailing in horror, blood gushing into the stream, the men around him screaming ... shocking, to say the least.

Such images make you want to pull all those guys out immediately ... but then you think that if that was done, all those people who died were completely in vain.

I think the idea of having one last, well organised push - and if there's no significant improvement, then we pull them out - is possibly the best idea in how to deal with this war right now perhaps.

All you hear every few days now is another one, two, three, or even four soldiers killed - again on foot patrols. There seems to be no real leadership or strategy out there, and it's costing lives and indeed ruining lives ... but rather than me getting off on a political tangent or anything, back to the programme itself.

Harrowing - extremely so - but also powerful viewing. You really get to see the bare, honest truth about what it's like for those who get seriously injured - the horror of the moment after the IED goes off, the family arriving and seeing their son/brother in a hospital bed in a hell of a state, and then their trials and tribulations as they go through their recovery.

Shocking, shocking stuff, but it fills me with the most profound respect for these lads who go off to these hell holes, no matter who is governing them to do so, for a shitty wage, to be shot at day in day out, with the extreme risk of being blown up by an IED, and quite possibly killed out-right.

Not sure if I can personally bear to watch the second part - but does the guy who's eyes were damaged get his sight back at all? Do they get that far in the documentary?

[ProfessorChaos]

...my opinion on the military is well documented and also irrelevant to this thread

okay hippie, i'll take your bait....i've been on these boards for a couple of years now and haven't really seen you post anything in particular about the military other than this sort of vague and condescending statement, so why dont' you elaborate?:rockbrow:

the impression that i get from your post is one of contempt for the military, but yet you still play games like cod2, cod4, cod:world at war, tom clancy's endwar, gears of war 2, battlefield: bad company, etc....i know these are just videogames, but if you're so against the military (or so it seems), why bother playing games that feature stuff you're so against? why not just play harry potter, lego indiana jones, viva pinata, guitar queer-o, banjo-kazooie, or something more up your alley?

i apologize for my harsh tone in this post, but to be quite honest, i'm tired of your vaginal statements such as these, particularly those against the military and troops out there with actual balls to put themselves in harm's way...although the commanders and politicians who are ultimately in charge of the military are for the most part a bunch of buffoons and cowards who care more about their careers and paychecks more than the troops and their safety, the men and women of the military (especially those in combat zones who are the basis for all the videogames you play) deserve a little more respect than what you're giving.


ProfChaos - try Googling to see if there is some kind of code you can paste into your browser URL bar or something, which can make iPlayer work in the USA - I'm not sure if there is such a thing, but I have heard of such a thing, so it's worth a Googling to see if there's anything out there that'll loop you around the region coding.

thanks for the tip, bro. will check into that as soon as i get back to my apartment.

[AcesandEights]

Before this turns into an unnecessary, though probably popcorn-worthy, flame war Ill just say that programs along these lines are always sobering. At least to anyone with ounce of empathy.

It certainly does help put things in perspective about what 'problems' I have in my life.

[kortick]

I fully agree with the fact that the horrors of
war are not fully understood by most people, even
enlisted men.
And I dont think its fair to blame people who play video
games of war as being out of touch, as those games
make war seem fun, it is their very purpose they are
GAMES for enjoyment.

But this video doesnt contain any new or shocking
images to me.
I have many friends who were maimed, tortured, poisioned
by Agent Orange and worse from the Vietnam war.
I had 2 vet friends I know eat thier gun cuz it was
all too much what they saw and what they did.
Call in a napalm strike and watch an entire village
burn to death and see if that dont leave u with nightmares.

You dont need a video to tell you what war is like.
Visit your local VA, or whatever Veterans Hospital
there is and talk to people who actively served.

They will quickly and completely remove any thoughts
you have of the glory of war.
But they will also tell you how they are proud of thier service,
and wish people understood more about it all.

We owe it to them to listen.

[SymphonicX]

okay hippie, i'll take your bait....i've been on these boards for a couple of years now and haven't really seen you post anything in particular about the military other than this sort of vague and condescending statement, so why dont' you elaborate?:rockbrow:

the impression that i get from your post is one of contempt for the military, but yet you still play games like cod2, cod4, cod:world at war, tom clancy's endwar, gears of war 2, battlefield: bad company, etc....i know these are just videogames, but if you're so against the military (or so it seems), why bother playing games that feature stuff you're so against? why not just play harry potter, lego indiana jones, viva pinata, guitar queer-o, banjo-kazooie, or something more up your alley?

i apologize for my harsh tone in this post, but to be quite honest, i'm tired of your vaginal statements such as these, particularly those against the military and troops out there with actual balls to put themselves in harm's way...although the commanders and politicians who are ultimately in charge of the military are for the most part a bunch of buffoons and cowards who care more about their careers and paychecks more than the troops and their safety, the men and women of the military (especially those in combat zones who are the basis for all the videogames you play) deserve a little more respect than what you're giving.



thanks for the tip, bro. will check into that as soon as i get back to my apartment.


Firstly, it wasn't bait.

Secondly, I watch zombie movies and don't feel the need to decapitate people in reality. I play games yet don't feel the need to satisfy an urge to go to war. Big line between fantasy and reality. Very simple to understand.

Thirdly NO I am not going to get into an argument with you here about this. This is a thread about the programme we saw on TV last night. I didn't want to make this original post, seemingly full of empathy, for these young lads yet get called up by people like you for my past statements about the military!!!!

So I thought simply, that I would acknowledge my older posts and that my opinion hasn't backtracked, so I could avoid being baited by the pro-war committee.

But alas, it seems, it was inevitable because any post I make about this is scrutinised no matter what I say. If I say "I love the troops" i'm a hypocrite, if I acknowledge what I've said in the past and actually use my ability to PUT THAT ASIDE, then I get slapped down by you for not backtracking in the first place!

Lastly, I don't feel "contempt" for anyone. If i did, surely my original post in this thread would have been along the lines of "he deserved it" - but that wasn't the case, was it? I am a humanist and I feel the human loss that happens over there, just as you do. My political viewpoint, as I said originally, is irrelevant to my feelings of empathy to the young boys who are suffering because of this. I know however, that in the past I may have responded emotionally on the subject without much thought, and if I came across harsh on the subject then I apologies for offending your sensibilities.

But this was certainly NOT bait.

Now, back to topic.

ps: I sure hope that this potential flame war is fully doused and we can return back to a level above name calling.

[MinionZombie]

Symph, Prof, can we get back on topic and leave any views or politics aside please?

I'd like you two to leave each other alone on this issue, and let the thread get back on topic - because I don't want to have to close it.

Let's all be grown up about this, agreed?

Thanks.

[SymphonicX]

I acknowledged that very point in my reply to prof, MZ.

Just for the record maybe denying prof a chance to reply isn't too fair - so I'm happy to talk about this in PM or whatever.

Either way I don't hold any ill feeling toward Prof for airing his concerns nor do I want to detract from the thread so as you say....back to topic :)

[ProfessorChaos]

i'm about to go home for the weekend to attend a funeral of a somewhat-distant relative, so i don't have time to post a real response to this at the moment, but when i do, i'll send it to symph via PM so as to not pollute this thread with our political/ideological beliefs.

but yeah, back to topic: anyone ever seen "baghdad ER"? it's probably in the same vein as the program tricky mentioned, but spends most of its time following and talking to the doctors who work in trauma units in baghdad, showing them in action, following a few of the wounded troops and their journeys back to states. pretty moving stuff...

[MinionZombie]

anyone ever seen "baghdad ER"? it's probably in the same vein as the program tricky mentioned, but spends most of its time following and talking to the doctors who work in trauma units in baghdad, showing them in action, following a few of the wounded troops and their journeys back to states. pretty moving stuff...

Is it a particularly gory show?

I only ask because I was quite stunned at "Wounded" when they full-on showed an un-sewn-up leg stump in all it's gory reality ... was quite taken aback by that, because it's the sort of thing you never see on any of these other things about soldiers - that I've seen anyway - documentaries I mean, rather than a TV show with writers and such.