huh? banning the pint glass...

[Mike70]

yet another in a long, long string of crazy ideas from the chuckleheads running the UK. this one is a doozy for sure



http://www.loweringthebar.net/2009/09/british-government-considers-mandating-plastic-pints.html


lowering the bar is a great site by the way. it looks at law and legal issues in a humorous, often flippant manner that is a nice change from stuffy ass legal sites.

[SymphonicX]

ahh there's been plastic pint glasses in most places, especially in peak times - for a while now...

As someone who got a glass smashed into my face when I was 18, leaving a permanent (but not serious) scar on the left side of my face, I'm all for it personally...

(back story: I was in pub with mates, we were a bit loud and boistrous, but the pub was a bit dead so we left - a guy followed us out, tapped me on the shoulder and asked "where is your mate?" before smashing the glass into my face...I pushed him into the road and it all kicked off and I realised that my face and neck was drenched in blood - luckily there was a hospital across the road so I got stitched up....great first date though!!!! it WAS unprovoked - we were just having a good time out and made absolutely no threatening comments or behaviour, we were just laughing and joking - turns out the guy had a habit of randomly attacking people and was seen a week later looking to do the same to someone else.)

[Mike70]

ahh there's been plastic pint glasses in most places, especially in peak times - for a while now...

As someone who got a glass smashed into my face when I was 18, leaving a permanent (but not serious) scar on the left side of my face, I'm all for it personally...



let me ask you another question then and you might be able to give an excellent answer: why is person on person violence, usually in the form of assault, so common over there?

the rate of assault in the UK is 8.5 TIMES higher than in the US.

[SymphonicX]

Easy - alcohol! Cheap and easy to obtain alcohol, a fundamental lack of morals surrounding it and 24 hour drinking laws. Coupled with many other factors like instant gratification, the breakdown of community, media creation of the "bogeyman" (in recent times this is terrorists or those of different race), celebrity obsession and emulation, low education, and a predatory marketing system geared at selling alcohol to the younger generation.

Binge drinking is something we're still struggling with, with kids being hospitalised with liver failure due to just ONE night's drinking! The alcohol problem over here is, to be perfectly frank, disgusting.

You'll find that 90% of violent assaults are alcohol related - and anyone should see any town centre on a friday night for a true example of this...

[Mike70]

Easy - alcohol! Cheap and easy to obtain alcohol, a fundamental lack of morals surrounding it and 24 hour drinking laws.

wait a second... 24 hour drinking laws??? what kind of sense that does make? there isn't any time when alcohol sales are cut off? wow, you're probably right about that being part of the problem.

i'm all for a good time but there is a point when it's time to cut 'em off and send them home.

this leads onto my next question: how prevalent is public drunkeness over there?

[SymphonicX]

Oh fucking hell its rampant on the evenings at the weekend...literally man some places are just foul. Blackpool town centre...evil! Girls pissing in the streets, yobs screaming england chants, just pure fucking morons falling all over themselves left, right and centre.

What's sickening is a lot of people involved in this violent element are normally just ordinary people who go absolutely fucking mental on alcohol....now I may be a bit jaded because I don't drink at all - and it may be worth getting another opinion on the subject - however the public drunkeness aspect of the UK is a serious, serious problem...

You may find this link interesting: http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs/drinking/responsibledrinking/the24hourdrinkinglaws

you can apply for a 24 hour licence - not sure how popular they are though but what with the billion spent chucking flammable fluids down our necks I'd say it's a pretty sure-fire-winner.

[Mike70]

Oh fucking hell its rampant on the evenings at the weekend...literally man some places are just foul. Blackpool town centre...evil! Girls pissing in the streets, yobs screaming england chants, just pure fucking morons falling all over themselves left, right and centre.


what a difference an ocean makes. being drunk in public is something that is simply not tolerated over here at all. if you are drunk in public, you go to jail (esp. if you are acting the fool).

i lived in a college town for 5 years and the number of students i saw being arrested for being drunk in public was staggering.

[SymphonicX]

You can be "drunk and disorderley" but that only covers stupid or threatening behaviour - you can be merry, jolly and go out on a good ol' singsong and stuff like that and not be arrested - but as soon as it turns nasty then police tend to get involved - if they're around...which is rare...things do get out of hand quite often....

I hate it tbh...

[Tricky]

I get drunk most saturday nights, difference is me & my friends know how to behave ourselves even when intoxicated & we just have a good time, something these feral youths reaching the drinking age are unable to do. But there has always been the kind of people who go out just to pick fights & cause trouble, and there always will be unfortunately :(

[krakenslayer]

To be honest, I don't think the whole "getting assaulted by drunks" thing is as bad as many people make it out to be. I've been going out for years and never been in a fight. I think a lot of it depends ob where you go - I tend to drink in rock bars and the only trouble I've ever seen in one was a biker getting knocked out by a girl for making a lewd remark. :lol:

A lot of the trouble seems to centre around trendy Yates's/Lloyds/All-Bar-One type places where the spikey haired, ironed shirt-wearing dicks congregate before hitting the clubs. Give them a wide berth and you'll be fine.

[Mike70]

I tend to drink in rock bars and the only trouble I've ever seen in one was a biker getting knocked out by a girl for making a lewd remark. :lol:



:lol:

too bad you didn't capture that one on video.

[krakenslayer]

:lol:

too bad you didn't capture that one on video.

I know - it was brilliant! :D

She was a... larger lady. I'm not sure exactly what he said, but whatever it was, it was enough to cause her to leap over a table, knocking him over with the force of her charge, pin him to the ground and punch him in the forehead four times. I'd never seen such a big lady move so fast.

To top it all off, HE got kicked out of the bar, not her. Apparently he'd been abusive to staff or whatever too.

In a way, it would be entertaining if stuff like that happened more often. :D

[SymphonicX]

off topic slightly I saw this really horrible vid of a pool party - a girl is offended by something and she chucks a drink over this guy (she's wearing just a bikini, him in shorts and tee shirt I think), the guy reacts by sweep kicking the girl and she lands straight on her back, everyone sort of gasps....really awful.

[JDFP]

Really fascinating stuff. I used to think ALL Brits were intelligent, refined, and sophisticated when I was younger (think Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson from "Remains of the Day")...

While this IS true for many, it's good to know that you folks are just as screwed up and even more screwed up when it comes to not being able to handle your beer.

I sometimes watch "Questions for the Prime Minister" sessions just for a laugh when I see all the other MP's standing up yelling: "BOOO!!!" and hissing out loud and being as obnoxious as possible. Whoever stands up the fastest and yells loudest gets to speak! Wow, I couldn't imagine happening in our American Senate/House chambers, though it would be funny as hell..

j.p.

[SymphonicX]

Really fascinating stuff. I used to think ALL Brits were intelligent, refined, and sophisticated when I was younger (think Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson from "Remains of the Day")...

While this IS true for many, it's good to know that you folks are just as screwed up and even more screwed up when it comes to not being able to handle your beer.

I sometimes watch "Questions for the Prime Minister" sessions just for a laugh when I see all the other MP's standing up yelling: "BOOO!!!" and hissing out loud and being as obnoxious as possible. Whoever stands up the fastest and yells loudest gets to speak! Wow, I couldn't imagine happening in our American Senate/House chambers, though it would be funny as hell..

j.p.


hehe I'm sure there's compliments in there!! :D:D

It's a common mistake among americans to generalise the English as the sort of characters you see in Family Guy (Charles Bottomtooth) and all that...or Hugh Grant look a likes...argh.

the reality is very different. Sure go to Cambridge and you'll get a lot of yuppies - but take a trip to Hackney and you'll see the real side of London...its not pretty, it's edgy, dark and dangerous...most importantly we are heavily multicultural in London and the UK, but unfortunately we're not short of morons...not at all. Click the link below for proof (it's relevant to alcohol)!!

Even I have learnt to throw away a lot of misconceptions about the US in my life...I also thought some pretty generalising things about people from the US until I actually got to know a fair amount, through webboards, my job, and xbox live - you get a real sense of the variety of people both stupid and extremely clever that exist on your side of the pond...I guess we can all thank the internet for helping us to dispell our childhood perceptions..!

This story may be of interest - either way click the link cos the picture is HILARIOUS!!!!!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Violence-By-Women-Rises-80-Since-1998-Binge-Drinking-Blamed-as-Women-Try-To-Keep-Up-With-Men/Article/200910415411360?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_ 8&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15411360_Violence_By_Women _Rises_80%25_Since_1998%3A_Binge-Drinking_Blamed_as_Women_Try_To_Keep_Up_With_Men

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

PS at the bottom of the page on that link are links to other stories about the UKs booze problem...

[Mike70]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Oct/Week4/15411387.jpg

somewhere in the UK, there is a very proud set of parents.:lol:

edit:

this really surprised me:


Cardiff Council has banned drinking in the streets and has made it easier for the police to address the problem.

you mean that it has been legal to consume alcohol in public in the UK? jesus, no wonder people are running wild through the streets. that's another thing that'll send you to jail in most places over here, "open container" laws.

[AcesandEights]

I've been, for quite some time now, simultaneously shocked, fascinated and disturbed by this trend in the UK. Some of it is from personal--albeit highly limited--experience, but mostly from the reports I see and hear. I rest assured that, much like anywhere else, the truly horrible examples of humanity are out-in-front to set a negative precedent, and a goodly number of the ruck and run of our across the Pond neighbors are steady folk.

That said, I really do find theorycraft regarding these sorts of trends in societies (both regarding impetus and the societal havoc that surrounds the actual behavior) very interesting and I'd love any reading recommendations on casual violence / cultural predispositions towards it etc. in the UK, whether online or hard copy.

[SymphonicX]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Oct/Week4/15411387.jpg

somewhere in the UK, there is a very proud set of parents.:lol:

edit:

this really surprised me:



you mean that it has been legal to consume alcohol in public in the UK? jesus, no wonder people are running wild through the streets. that another thing that'll send you to jail in most places over here, "open container" laws.

Oh wait, you can't drink on the street? Shit man half the drinking is done in the gutter here!!!!!

Oh yeah that picture is gold aint it? lol

beggar's belief!!!!!

[MikePizzoff]

off topic slightly I saw this really horrible vid of a pool party - a girl is offended by something and she chucks a drink over this guy (she's wearing just a bikini, him in shorts and tee shirt I think), the guy reacts by sweep kicking the girl and she lands straight on her back, everyone sort of gasps....really awful.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4113/girlbeerlegsweep.gif

[SymphonicX]

yeah that's the vid....I hope that guy got twatted....the version with sound is awful...her petite body hitting the floor that hard....really disgusting....no fuckin' morals.

[krakenslayer]

It's illegal to drink in the streets here in Scotland, at least. You can drink in bars or outside at specially designated "beer gardens" (which can include parts of sidewalk/pavement with tables/chairs laid out) attached to drinking establishments. You can, however, be drunk in the street, provided you don't cause a nuisance, breach the peace, or pass out in a gutter and piss yourself.

Also, very few pubs have 24 hour drinking. I have never been in one, and can't think of any that exist in Glasgow (we do have slightly more stringent drinking laws in this city, though). It's apparently a bitch to get a licence granted for, and is mostly used for all nighters at Student Unions, etc. rather than used as standard opening times for bars. Most pubs in the UK close between midnight and 1AM (11pm in some parts of England), and clubs tend to shut between 2AM and 4AM.

So if you're not allowed to be drunk in public in the US, how are people expected to get home once the bars close?

[Mike70]

So if you're not allowed to be drunk in public in the US, how are people expected to get home once the bars close?

people who are simply buzzed are not messed with. people with obvious signs of intoxication, like staggering around, falling down, wandering out into traffic, etc. get arrested.
like i said, i lived in a college town for 5 years, i've seen this happen over and over on the high street in oxford.

if you have an open container of alcohol off of private property in most places (here in my state for sure), you get arrested.

[SymphonicX]

sounds like a much better idea to me...a solid scheme of incentives aimed at keeping public disorder to a minimum....

One question - what are the penalties for being arrested? Court cases? or slap on the wrist? How does it affect one's chances for employment or anything like that? and do a lot of normally "innocent" people get caught in the system simply for being a little too drunk for their own good?

[JDFP]

So if you're not allowed to be drunk in public in the US, how are people expected to get home once the bars close?

Oh, that's an easy one, most folks (NOT all) will drive home semi-drunk (a la "tipsy") or just drive home flat out drunk. I'll be the first to admit, and not proudly, there have been times that I have driven home from my local pub (1.7 miles from my apartment -- thus the main reason it is my local pub that I'm dedicated to going to, other than there the only place I drink is home) on some evenings that I knew that if I was pulled over I'd be getting a free stay in a barred room for the evening.

I can almost guarantee you just about every American guy has had that experience at least once in their lives driving when they shouldn't be driving (or think they are "fine to drive" and really aren't) and they pull the whole: "Dear God, get me home safely tonight and I'll promise I'll never blah blah blah...." -- and then next week, most of us are doing the same thing all over again...

Personally, the only thing I touch if I know I'm driving is beer, and I'm extremely particular about the amount I'm going to drink since I'm driving home. When I get home though, I'll grab more Budweiser from the fridge.

j.p.

[krakenslayer]

people who are simply buzzed are not messed with. people with obvious signs of intoxication, like staggering around, falling down, wandering out into traffic, etc. get arrested. you don't have to be causing a nuisance either, just have to be obviously obliterated.

like i said, i lived in a college town for 5 years, i've seen this happen over and over on the high street in oxford.

if you have an open container of alcohol off of private property in most places (here in my state for sure), you get arrested.

Well over here, you can be arrested for drinking in a public place. You can also be arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly. The disorderly part is important though. Actually, I think legally it comes out much the same as the US system, with the threshold being a bit higher over here because of our more accepting attitude towards it.

[SymphonicX]

JDFP: Dude, get a cab...please....you'll kill yourself or someone else....or if it's just 2 miles - have a nice nightly walk (in as straight a line as possible!)....

I've never drunk drove personally - there's a lot of scare campaigns here which do have a very solid effect...!


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[krakenslayer]

Oh, that's an easy one, most folks (NOT all) will drive home semi-drunk (a la "tipsy") or just drive home flat out drunk. I'll be the first to admit, and not proudly, there have been times that I have driven home from my local pub (1.7 miles from my apartment -- thus the main reason it is my local pub that I'm dedicated to going to, other than there the only place I drink is home) on some evenings that I knew that if I was pulled over I'd be getting a free stay in a barred room for the evening.

I can almost guarantee you just about every American guy has had that experience at least once in their lives driving when they shouldn't be driving (or think they are "fine to drive" and really aren't) and they pull the whole: "Dear God, get me home safely tonight and I'll promise I'll never blah blah blah...." -- and then next week, most of us are doing the same thing all over again...

Personally, the only thing I touch if I know I'm driving is beer, and I'm extremely particular about the amount I'm going to drink since I'm driving home. When I get home though, I'll grab more Budweiser from the fridge.

j.p.

Over here, admitting drunk driving is like admitting beastiality. A tiny minority do it, bit it's considered a BIG no-no.

[SymphonicX]

Over here, admitting drunk driving is like admitting beastiality. A tiny minority do it, bit it's considered a BIG no-no.

Definitely...

I lost my best friend at school when I was about 5, a drunk driver wiped out half his family on a crossing... :(

[krakenslayer]

Definitely...

I lost my best friend at school when I was about 5, a drunk driver wiped out half his family on a crossing... :(

Jeez... :(

[JDFP]

Woah, let me re-clarify, I don't drive drunk any longer, but there are times previously when I was much younger and dumber that I knew I shouldn't have been driving and did it anyway. It's not something I'm proud of but I'm not going to lie about it either. Now I cut myself off after the third beer -- and do the rest of my drinking at home.

I would say drunk driving in the U.S. is probably about as common as public drunkenness in the U.K. -- it should be interesting to look at the stats though. Drunk driving here is common place and some people do it multiple times a week.

j.p.

[Mike70]

One question - what are the penalties for being arrested? Court cases? or slap on the wrist? How does it affect one's chances for employment or anything like that? and do a lot of normally "innocent" people get caught in the system simply for being a little too drunk for their own good?

that all depends on what state you are in. seriously. here it is a $100 fine, jail time at the judge's discretion and up to one year of probation.

in indiana, however, the penalty can be up to 180 days in jail and a $1000 fine. in mississippi, it is a fine of $250 to $1,000 and from 1 to 3 years in jail.
nebraska is the real hardcore one: up to $3,000 fine and 2 to 5 years in jail.

of course, the upper limit of these are applied to repeat offenders.

[BillyRay]

JDFP: I've never drunk drove personally - there's a lot of scare campaigns here which do have a very solid effect...!

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Dude, that second one freaked me the @#$% out.

I reply with this (which don't seem to wanna embed - I don't know what I'm doing):



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Yeah, I live in a drinking town, you don't have to walk more than a block in my neighborhood to find a bar. No more than 3 to find a good one. Yet folks still drink and drive regularly. I don't get it.

[AcesandEights]

As a note of interest, the county I live in just passed a vehicle seizure / forfeiture law for those convicted of a DWI and other hazardous (read: stupid automobile activities).

Source: (http://www.westchester.com/Westchester_News/Government/Legislators_Pass_DWI_Vehicle_Forfeiture_Law_200910 2212250.html)


White Plains, NY - The Westchester County Board of Legislators has approved landmark legislation that would require the forfeiture of vehicles for those convicted of operating a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or drugs or while engaged in unlawful speed contests or drag races throughout Westchester County.

There have been some high profile driving disasters in the region lately.

[Bone Daddy]

The Nanny State thrives...

[Mike70]

Now I cut myself off after the third beer -- and do the rest of my drinking at home.

I would say drunk driving in the U.S. is probably about as common as public drunkenness in the U.K. -- it should be interesting to look at the stats though. Drunk driving here is common place and some people do it multiple times a week.

j.p.

hate to tell you this but depending on your body weight, 3 beers might put you over the .08 limit most states have. nice.:shifty:


drunk driving is nowhere near as prevalent as it was in the past. the number of alcohol related fatalities has fallen steadily since 1982, from 26,173 (which accounted for almost 60% of fatal car crashes) to 15,387 in 2007 (37 % of the total). the number of overall fatalities has remained pretty much the same year in and out at between 40,000-45,000, but the number of alcohol related crashes has dropped.

the penalties for dui ought to be increased as far as i'm concerned. i'd like to see people go to jail for 1 year, mandatory, on their first offense and we will add 2 years onto that for every subsequent offense.

[Ghost Of War]

One thing people haven't mentioned about the yoof of today getting wasted over here in Blighty is the combination of alcohol + cheap cocaine. I don't know about other places in the UK, but in Liverpool on a Friday, Saturday, well ANY night of the week, if you're drinking in Liverpool city centre you have to contend with the coked-up 18 year old idiots who can't handle their alcohol, and want to take anybody and everybody one. It seems like almost everyone under 25 here does coke. The amount of glassings I've witnessed in the past 2 years is ridiculous, and I'd bet my house that ALL of the offenders were on coke as well as bladdered on cheap cocktails and 2-for-1 offers.

[krakenslayer]

Again, I think it depends where you go. In Glasgow, there is a big coke problem but it's all around the sort of mainstream trendy places and chain pubs, etc. where all the tools hang out. If you go to a rock bar or an indie music (bleh!) place then it's just all boozed-up friendly folk who're there to have fun and if someone spills your pint they'll buy you another one.

Actually though, in Glasgow, they've effectively banned all drinks promotions in pubs, and it has slightly reduced the level of trouble on the streets.