'Scientists' Speculate Hadron Collider Could Be Experiencing Sabotage from Future!

[AcesandEights]

I couldn't resist posting this bit (http://io9.com/5380647/is-the-large-hadron-collider-being-sabotaged-from-the-future) from i09.


What if all the Large Hadron Collider's recent woes are more than bad luck and technical problems? Two noted physicists speculate that the future may be pushing back on the LHC to avert the disaster of observing the Higgs boson.

The quest to observe the Higgs boson has certainly been plagued by its share of troubles, from the cancellation of the Superconducting Supercollider in 1993 to the Large Hadron Collider's streak of technical troubles. In fact, the projects have suffered such bad luck that Holger Bech Nielsen of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto wonder if it isn't bad luck at all, but future influences rippling back to sabotage them. In papers like "Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal" and "Search for Future Influence From LHC," they put forth the notion that observing the Higgs boson would be such an abhorrent event that the future is actually trying to prevent it from happening.

Here is a link (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0802/0802.2991v2.pdf) to the PDF of one of the articles mentioned: the Nielsen, H.B., & Ninomiya, M. Test of Effect from Future in Large Hadron Collider article.

I just report this stuff, folks.

[krakenslayer]

Basically the concept behind this theory is that the universe finds the Higgs-Boson particle "repellant", and so the scientists are being somehow prevented (by the "universe") from succeeding because their success would be so unnatural to the laws of the universe.

It seems absurd, but in these extreme cutting-edge areas of physics, everything is unknown and completely unpredictable. If you think about two oppositely-charged particles repelling each other at one specific moment in time - that's just physical laws, we accept that - but if a different physical action that was not tied to a simple point in time (i.e. could make its influence felt before the event), who knows how that would manifest itself. Maybe it would seem to us like "bad luck" and somehow "intelligent", but is in fact no more intelligent than the arc of an electron or the decay of a particle, it's just seems that way because it's so alien to us.

I don't really believe it myself, but it's important to remember that in particle physics, "common sense" does NOT apply, so I wouldn't 100% rule it out.

[darth los]

Basically the concept behind this theory is that the universe finds the Higgs-Boson particle "repellant", and so the scientists are being somehow prevented (by the "universe") from succeeding because their success would be so unnatural to the laws of the universe.

It seems absurd, but in these extreme cutting-edge areas of physics, everything is unknown and completely unpredictable. If you think about two oppositely-charged particles repelling each other at one specific moment in time - that's just physical laws, we accept that - but if a different physical action that was not tied to a simple point in time (i.e. could make its influence felt before the event), who knows how that would manifest itself. Maybe it would seem to us like "bad luck" and somehow "intelligent", but is in fact no more intelligent than the arc of an electron or the decay of a particle, it's just seems that way because it's so alien to us.

I don't really believe it myself, but it's important to remember that in particle physics, "common sense" does NOT apply, so I wouldn't 100% rule it out.


Can i safely assume that you're not drunk anymore? :lol: :p

[SRP76]

Scientists can be so dumb, for all their brilliance. They'll go ahead with this stuff anyway.

Sorry, but when you even think that maybe THE UNIVERSE ITSELF is telling you to stop doing this, it's probably a real good idea to put the project on hold.

But they won't.

[Mike70]

Basically the concept behind this theory is that the universe finds the Higgs-Boson particle "repellant", and so the scientists are being somehow prevented (by the "universe") from succeeding because their success would be so unnatural to the laws of the universe.


ok. i've read the entire article (30 frickin pages of it) and there's more to it than the universe simply preventing an event.

the authors propose an experiment to test the idea of future pre-arrangement. this is the idea that the future can be pre-arranged in such a manner that certain events/actions in the past are effected by a future state. in our everyday lives, standard physics precludes future pre-arrangement. causality flows in only one direction from the past into the future and a future event can have no influence on an event in the past.

particle physics challenges this presumption because of several strange phenomena associated with how those particles behave and interact with the present. so, the question that they are seeking to answer is if the future is pre-arranged in such a manner that no matter what, the LHC will not produce the results expected.

[MoonSylver]

So we're under attack...FROM THE FUUUUTUUUURRRREEE!!!!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3994129679_d1ea067938_m.jpg

[Eyebiter]

"causality flows in only one direction from the past into the future anda future event can have no influence on an event in the past"

From a traditional cause and effect perspective that might be valid.
However what about tachyons? Just because our science hasn't advanced far enough to prove that they exist, doesn't mean these particles aren't already here influencing us now.

From the perspective of a future person with access to a time machine all of human history occurs at essentially the same instant. Flip a switch and can go anywhere along the time line from the dawn of man to the far future.

[Mike70]

From a traditional cause and effect perspective that might be valid.
However what about tachyons? Just because our science hasn't advanced far enough to prove that they exist, doesn't mean these particles aren't already here influencing us now.


i thought i was clear about that being drawn from standard physics, which governs our everyday interaction with the everyday world.

tachyons, if they should exist, would be governed by quantum field theory not standard physics.

but yes, if tachyons do exist, they would by their very nature, be evidence of future pre-arrangment, since they are moving faster than light, they would be receding from the future into a known past. anyway, tachyons are an iffy thing. there is no guarantee that even if they do exist, that they would be able to carry information.