Killed over a halloween hat...

[Neil]

What is wrong with people :confused:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8338280.stm

[MikePizzoff]

That makes me sick. It's a shame that the world is going to continue down this path and things are just going to become increasingly worse for each passing generation.

[AcesandEights]

Fuck, that's horrible :( A tragic loss of life is bad enough as it is, but for it to be over such pointless shit is staggering when realistically contemplated.

[darth los]

I always like to think outside the box so let me play devil's advocate here for a minute.

Bad things happen in life because there are bad people out there, that's a given. Conversely, People have right to go out and enjoy a good time with their significant other or whoever without fear of being harrassed let alone hospitalized or maybe killed.

So yes people have right to enjoy themselves but at the same time you can't put yourself in a position where bad things probably will happen. (It's the same reason why I'll never attend a soccer game over seas :p) I mean it's halloween, so again it's a given that "mischief" is going to occur. Add, the 2 A's (assholes and alcohol) and it's a recipe for disaster.

So what's a person to do? You can either:

A) Stay home on what's supposed to be a social night,

or

B) Go out but be advised that bad things can happen and live with the consequences if it does.

(In the legal profession that's called an assumed risk, and therefore there's no liability there) It's the same reson you can't sue if you go to a baseball game and get clobbered in the head with a foul ball.

:cool:

[krakenslayer]

That makes me sick. It's a shame that the world is going to continue down this path and things are just going to become increasingly worse for each passing generation.

I agree, although I would say that chaos comes in ebbs and flows. Every generation brings its own kind. Our grandfathers lived in a, domestically, more civilised time - but they also had terrible world wars, hundreds of times worse than anything we have today, and also women didn't have as much social mobility, etc. Our fathers then lived with the constant threat of nuclear death at a moments notice thanks to a Cold War that makes our tiffs with Iran looks like private school debates. We now live in a time with more more terrorism and a greater lack of civility and respect in society.

So basically, if it makes you feel any better, everyone always thinks the world's going to hell no matter what time they live in. :D

[Neil]

That makes me sick. It's a shame that the world is going to continue down this path and things are just going to become increasingly worse for each passing generation.

Until we decide to change our ethos and 'grow up' a bit we're a little bit stuffed aren't we...

Look at the amount of hassle we have trying to get even a cheap space mission green-lit, but we'll happily order 120 bombers that will never be used... One of which would pay for the space mission with change.

We need to just stop being so petty and childish... This will take generations... But it will come...

[Eyebiter]

Sad story.

[bassman]

It's absolutely horrible that someone lost their life over something so small....but let's not start feeling sorry for the deceased yet. Nobody should have been killed, but we don't know what this guy did to provoke the attackers. He could've been asking for a beat down.

A beat down that cost him his life he did NOT deserve, but it may be as much his fault as it is the attackers.

[JDFP]

So what's a person to do? You can either:

A) Stay home on what's supposed to be a social night,

or

B) Go out but be advised that bad things can happen and live with the consequences if it does.

(In the legal profession that's called an assumed risk, and therefore there's no liability there) It's the same reson you can't sue if you go to a baseball game and get clobbered in the head with a foul ball.

:cool:

There's a big difference between going to a baseball game and getting hit by a foul ball and going out to a Halloween party and being beaten to death after the party. I'd love to see these murderous thugs have their defense attorney try that in court as a defense: "Well yeah, they shouldn't have beat him to death and all, but they shouldn't have been there in that part of town in the first place! Shame on them for going there, it was a bad part of town!" -- great way to rely on the sympathies of the jurors right there.

Common sense tells me not to drive down some parts of town at 3 in the morning listening to David Allen Coe as loud as possible from my car speakers. That's stupid and I'd probably get my ass kicked, and yes, part of that would be my fault for doing something stupid. But if I was assaulted for it it's still an assault, the defendant wouldn't get far with saying: "Well, that J.P., he pissed me off pretty bad by listening to David Allen Coe! I was RIGHT to kick his ass!".

It's a bit like saying: "Well I guess I was wrong to have my way with that girl, but SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT because of what she was wearing!".

I completely understand what you are saying about the common sense factor though. The biggest deterrent to crime is simple: Don't do stupid stuff. If you're a guy don't wear a rival team's shirt and act all bad ass to rub wounds in with others (especially when alcohol is involved). If you're a girl and you dress like a whore, you're going to be treated like a whore. It's that simple. Does it make a crime committted against you any less severe because you put yourself into the situation though through your sheer stupidity? No. Murder is murder. They had no right to murder this man.

It just doesn't add up...

j.p.

[darth los]

There's a big difference between going to a baseball game and getting hit by a foul ball and going out to a Halloween party and being beaten to death after the party. I'd love to see these murderous thugs have their defense attorney try that in court as a defense: "Well yeah, they shouldn't have beat him to death and all, but they shouldn't have been there in that part of town in the first place! Shame on them for going there, it was a bad part of town!" -- great way to rely on the sympathies of the jurors right there.

Common sense tells me not to drive down some parts of town at 3 in the morning listening to David Allen Coe as loud as possible from my car speakers. That's stupid and I'd probably get my ass kicked, and yes, part of that would be my fault for doing something stupid. But if I was assaulted for it it's still an assault, the defendant wouldn't get far with saying: "Well, that J.P., he pissed me off pretty bad by listening to David Allen Coe! I was RIGHT to kick his ass!".

It's a bit like saying: "Well I guess I was wrong to have my way with that girl, but SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT because of what she was wearing!".

I completely understand what you are saying about the common sense factor though. The biggest deterrent to crime is simple: Don't do stupid stuff. If you're a guy don't wear a rival team's shirt and act all bad ass to rub wounds in with others (especially when alcohol is involved). If you're a girl and you dress like a whore, you're going to be treated like a whore. It's that simple. Does it make a crime committted against you any less severe because you put yourself into the situation though through your sheer stupidity? No. Murder is murder. They had no right to murder this man.

It just doesn't add up...

j.p.


I told you I was playing devil's advocate. :D

It just makes for a livlier thread than going down the line saying all the politically correct things. Which by the way is why no problems ever get solved. No one ever has a frank discussion on the issues for fear of hurting someone's feelings.


For the record i agree with you. But the point we made still holds. No one has a right to harrass, assault, rape or murder someone under any circumstances. Let's just get that straight of the bat.

But, take this scenaro and see what I mean about political correctness and common sense. Immette St. Guillen a law student From NYCwas out partying one night a couple of years back. To make a long story short she got shit faced drunk and decided it would be a good idea to raom the manhattan streets ALONE at 2 in the morning. She was found raped, mutilated and murdered the next day. Her murderer was eventually caught and sentenced to life. I would have cut his balls off myself (If that happened to my 13 year old daughter there is no force on earth that would stop me and i believe the DA would have a hard time getting a jury of 12 parents to convict me) but that's besides the point.


Now again, there are two sides:

First the P.C. side: What is this world coming to that a young, beautiful college graduate can't enjoy a night on the town for fear the worst might happen.

Then you have the side that will get your face burnt off by angy women and others: A woman has no business being out there at that time drunk and alone. Yes, she has the right to do so but she is assuming a risk. Even the people that disagree with this line of thinking must conceed that.

It reminds me of a scene in the Quentin Tarentino film "Death Proof." The black woman shows off her concealed weapon to her girls and one of them makes the statement "why do you carry a gun?" The black woman replies, " Because if I do my laundry at midnight enough I might get my ass raped." The friend replies in turn, "So don't do your laundry at midnight." To which the black woman replies, "I'll do my laundry whenever the fuck i wanna do my laundry."

Imo, this blends both schools of thought nicely. Yes she knew she was assuming a risk but she knew it and proceeded anyway but she was prepared for the worst. Moral of the story, speak softly and carry a high caliber weapon. :lol:

Before feelings get involved keep in mind that this is just a discussion and this is not the way i actually feel I'm just making points for discussion. Yes women have the right to do whatever they want to.

But about the college student being out late drunk:


What would you tell YOUR daughter?

1) Oh sure honey, you have the right to be out as late and as drunk as you wanna be just call me o.k.?

or

2) Honey you really think that's a good idea?

Answer that and then get back to me.

Good post by the way.


:cool: