The Amanda Knox trial..

[Tricky]

So then, why is Hilary Clinton getting involved now that Knox has been found guilty of murder & banged up in an Italian jail? I think its fairly obvious that the girl is a sandwich short of a picnic & the way she acted following her arrest & during the trial,as well as the evidence stacked against her, proves that she is guilty!
Whats the general opinion on the US side of the pond on this case? Im just interested as its been splashed all over our news for well over a year now!

[DubiousComforts]

So then, why is Hilary Clinton getting involved now that Knox has been found guilty of murder & banged up in an Italian jail?
I wasn't aware that Clinton was involved, only that a Senator from Knox's home state is putting pressure on the current US administration to investigate the verdict. The Italian press seems overtly sensitive.


Whats the general opinion on the US side of the pond on this case?
A current US news program painted all involved as a bunch of spoiled, shallow, drugged-out idiots including the victim (no excuse for being murdered, of course). So what else is new?

[Skippy911sc]

It is my understanding that the legal system in Italy is so different than ours that this woman was convicted through the use of only circumstantial evidence. I don't blame the sec of state for getting somewhat involved in this as well as the sen from her home state. If she is guilty then by all means she deserves jail time, but if she was found guilty by circumstantial evidence in a foreign country then our government should protect her.

I had heard once how many parking and moving violations foreign dignitaries receive in New York (U.N.) and it was mind boggling. I don't think that the NYPD is showing up to make arrests anytime soon.

[SRP76]

I don't know everyone else's opinions, and I don't care about them anyway. But this particular American's opinion is that if somone is in another country andgets arrested, tried, and sentenced, that's just tough shit. Not our job to go judging someone else's legal system, and also not our place to stick our noses into it and think we should have any kind of say in what happens or doesn't happen. That's why it's called "their" legal system.

When you go into someone's country, you're subject to their way of doing things, and you know that right from the start. If you can't handle it, keep your ass at home. Nobody's begging you to grace their country with your illustrious presence.

[DubiousComforts]

Can't understand why the emphasis has been put solely on Amanda Knox when two Italian males were also convicted of the crime and the victim was an English student.

Now that the verdict is in, Knox's mother is actually quoted as being regretful that her daughter didn't pull a Roman Polanski. :eek:


I don't know everyone else's opinions, and I don't care about them anyway.
Oh admit it: you just couldn't wait to read what I had to say.

You're welcome.

[SymphonicX]

OK a couple of things have really narked me about this case...(like, I mean really narked me)

First was Rudy Guede's "Fasttrack trial" - excuse me....this is a murder trial?! What the f**k is a fast track trial and how in the world can that be fair and just???? 33 years he has got, on the basis of something which I believe to never have had a jury. Evil.

Secondly, the Italian justice system has convicted Amanda K based on "Meredith didn't like Amanda, and Amanda didn't like that so they played a sex game and killed her"....wtf? They changed her motive about 5 times throughout the f**king trial and even went as low as to suggest that because she had her phoned switched off, this was proof of her guilt!!!!!!

Now, don't get me wrong - all I'm saying is that I suspect very deeply that the Italian justice system has either failed this time, or is so unbelievably pathetic and corrupt that the poor girl didn't have a chance.

"Cartwheels in the interrogation" - really?

33 people to interrogate Amanda Knox in one room? Come on.

Sorry, the whole thing doesn't add up - except of course the circumstancial evidence - but very little motive, a terrible investigation that echoes the complete WOEFUL INCOMPETENCE of the police in Portugal who handled the Madeline McCann case, and a media frenzy all add up to create a very smokey situation that I have completely lost faith in.

Now another point was made about "if you get arrested in another country, so be it" - I'd like to refer all people who believe that to Dubai's airport security systems that have recently put a guy in prison for EIGHT YEARS because he had POPPY SEEDS from a bread roll in his coat. Or the guy who had 0.003g (less than a grain of sugar) of weeeed in the groove of his shoe that he had picked up somewhere.

Some foreign justice systems are unfair, biased, and deadly and I for one wouldn't want to be caught anywhere like that.

*rant over*!! thanks for reading :)

---------- Post added at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 AM ----------


I don't know everyone else's opinions, and I don't care about them anyway. But this particular American's opinion is that if somone is in another country andgets arrested, tried, and sentenced, that's just tough shit. Not our job to go judging someone else's legal system, and also not our place to stick our noses into it and think we should have any kind of say in what happens or doesn't happen. That's why it's called "their" legal system.

When you go into someone's country, you're subject to their way of doing things, and you know that right from the start. If you can't handle it, keep your ass at home. Nobody's begging you to grace their country with your illustrious presence.


Ahh yes, refer to points above - 8 years in prison for a bread roll seed in your pocket - because of the tenuous link between poppy seeds and opium...You're simply transferring from one flight to another in the United Arab Emirates, and you get scanned, urine tested, and they use highly sensitive equipment to detect small trace amounts of substances...8 years mate...see ya later, your fault for having a bread roll right?

Even if you went to Amsterdam, smoked legally, then transferred to Dubai, if they caught you - instant 8 years in prison. "Zero tolerance" policy means you follow the law in another jurisdiction and still get 8 years in prison for something somewhere completely different.

Unfortunately Dubai and the UAE have sort of nulled your point a bit there, although by and large I do agree - in a moderate, just and fair legal system you should be susceptible to their laws and rules...

But some countries, are taking that too far.

[Dtothe3]

The reason for the fast track trial was the dude thought that the other two would stitch him up solo.

Not to be funny, but it looks to me (from what I've seen and read) that the girl in question either has no standards whatsoever, or was actually completely non-plussed by someone being stabbed to death in her own home and then finding the body. I think even if they'd have found the girl with knife in hand the americans would have something to say about it.

After all, the americans have never knowingly put an innocent man to death hmm?

Glass houses etc.

(also comparing the McCann case is unfair, the portugal police fucked up at every stage. Personally I think noticing that a knife was missing, following it up, finding it at the other suspects home doused in bleach... Thats better then the portugeuse)

[SymphonicX]

If you can believe that knife scenario even happened! I'm not saying Knox is innocent, but what I've read about the investigative process leaves a LOT to be desired.

And you have to think to yourself - why opt for a fast track trial that gets you 30 years in prison? Surely taking your chances up against Knox and Sollecito would give you more chance of getting away with it. No one would knowingly opt for a 30 year sentence if they could get away with it. He didn't admit the crime, did he? (I mean, I dunno, will have to find out)

[Tricky]

Apparently Knox's defence got some cash from rich businessmen who dont even know her as well! I wonder if they would still have done this if she had been ugly & it hadnt been revealed/rumoured she liked kinky sex....

[Mike70]

OK a couple of things have really narked me about this case...(like, I mean really narked me)



nark must mean something different over there. over here it means "to rat someone out."


as for amanda knox, i haven't followed the story much and pretty well don't care.

the whole thing reminds me a lot of that trashy ass "locked up abroad" show, where people doing completely idiotic shit (which they know is illegal) get caught in foreign countries and thrown in the clink. that show irritates me because it tries to elicit sympathy for people who are mostly fucking morons. "oh, i got caught smuggling heroin. please feel sorry for me." "somebody gave me a package to bring back and it was full of cocaine, feel sorry for me."

[SymphonicX]

nark must mean something different over there. over here it means "to rat someone out."
"

Thought that was more "narc" - as in narcotics cops? So you narc out a drug dealer or something?

Anyway nark isn't really a much used expression but you can refer to something as "narky" and it can mean argumentative, or if something narks you, it's just annoying - basically... :)

[Mike70]

Thought that was more "narc" - as in narcotics cops? So you narc out a drug dealer or something?


come to think of it, it is spelled that way. i haven't used that term since i was like 19. it seems to have fallen out of fashion around here in the early 90s, much like "book" has fallen out of fashion. i do still use the slang meaning of "book" from time to time.

i'm pretty sure that it came from the 80s fascination with putting young looking cops in high schools in an effort to "fight drugs."

[SymphonicX]

come to think of it, it is spelled that way. i haven't used that term since i was like 19. it seems to have fallen out of fashion around here in the early 90s.

i'm pretty sure that it came from the 80s fascination with putting young looking cops in high schools in an effort to "fight drugs."

LOL they did that? Awesome...reminds me of Lando Griffin in Family Guy :)

[deadpunk]

i'm pretty sure that it came from the 80s fascination with putting young looking cops in high schools in an effort to "fight drugs."

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2008/02/23-End%20of%20Month/15597__21jumpstreet_l.jpg

;)

[Mike70]

LOL they did that? Awesome...reminds me of Lando Griffin in Family Guy :)

sorry tricky, this thread has taken one of those HPOTD turns.

yeah, that was done in the 80s over here (might still be going on). young cops in high schools, making "friends", weaseling their way into social circles, then ratting out the people that trusted them and thought they were "friends."

scumbags every single one of them. the people involved in that ought to be hung from trees while the keebler elves beat them with sticks in an attempt to knock the candy out of their asses.

[SymphonicX]

LOL, mike you kill me....hahaha

[DjfunkmasterG]

From what I followed of the Amanda Knox trial the italian media made her out to be this evil woman, I mean just You Tube Amanda Know or google it and see how much shit they splashed about the case all over the place.

As noted the investigation was flawed from the start, and the media hype surrounding the trial and the murder was nearly the same as the OJ trial here in the US.

She never had a fair chance, but then again in italy... they don't fuck around. Italy has some of the highest conviction rates of foreigners than most EU countries.

However, whether Clinton intervenes or not shouldn't matter. Another countries justice system is their system and who are we to criticize their system when we convict innocent people and let walk the truly guilty ones who then walk into donut shops and shoot up and entire police force.

[Dtothe3]

If anyone remembers the Louise Wooward trial in America (where the parents of the young boy released photographs in order to sabotage her appeal) then I see more similarities to this then OJ Simpson. Simpson got away with a crime.

Knox, was found guilty of being involved in a crime by her boyfriend (as far as I can tell). I hope she finds a lovely big italian butch woman in jail. Hell, why stop the party there? Butch women.

I can't help but point out, if she didn't have a fair chance, she was/is guilty.

But I suppose I can't help but think of Guantamino Bay. If the Americans have a problem with other peoples Judical system, prehaps they care to address they're own first...?

[deadpunk]

If the Americans have a problem with other peoples Judical system, prehaps they care to address they're own first...?

How about we wait until the other 304,059,724 Americans weigh-in on this before we start bashing countries as a whole? :rockbrow:

Personally, I'm of the opinion that she commited (or was involved in) a crime in another country and is therefore subject to their laws. I see no need for an intervention by any of our politicians, etc...

[Dtothe3]

Just to point out here, i'm not trolling. There's a literal point that we should address ourselves before others "Let those without sin cast the first stone".

But I see the point, It's not like the 3/4 of the population here managed to stop the EU.

I just find it almost humourous that as a general, we always bash the systems of those who put our own citizens on trial.

[triste realtà]

First was Rudy Guede's "Fasttrack trial" - excuse me....this is a murder trial?! What the f**k is a fast track trial and how in the world can that be fair and just???? 33 years he has got, on the basis of something which I believe to never have had a jury. Evil.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/6732245/Amanda-Knox-trial-Rudy-Guede-profile.html


Confronted with the overwhelming DNA evidence which proved that he had not only been in the room after Miss Kercher was stabbed, but also that he had had sexual contact with her, he immediately admitted being in the house and "fooling around" with Miss Kercher, who he said he had met in a bar, but said he had started to feel ill and went to the loo, where he was listening to his iPod when he heard an argument between Miss Knox and Miss Kercher.


Guede also posted photographs and video of himself on his Facebook site, making strange grimaces at the camera and declaring: "I am Dracula, I will drink your blood."

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

The Italian Harry Potter profile page:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/6727324/Meredith-Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html


But police checks on his background revealed a darker side to Sollecito, who had a lifelong obsession with knives and swords, which he collected, and always carried a flick-knife in his pocket.

He described himself on an internet blog as someone who liked to try "risky things" and was sometimes "totally crazy", and he was a collector of Japanese manga comics, known for their extreme violence and rape fantasies.

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------

Knox article


A fellow employee at the World Cup cafe in Seattle, where Knox worked, said: "The first time I met her she asked me if I was Jewish. I told her I was. She then screamed 'My people killed your people' and began laughing hysterically.

"I didn't know what to say. She just kept laughing about her Germans killing my Jews. After that, I did not like her. She really freaked me out."

[Dtothe3]

That last Knox article just turned my stomach, regardless of the trial, I would happily send her to hell on that statement alone.

[deadpunk]

Just to point out here, i'm not trolling. There's a literal point that we should address ourselves before others "Let those without sin cast the first stone".

I didn't intend to imply that you were trolling. I only wanted to point out that I found your statement to be rather broad. :)


I just find it almost humourous that as a general, we always bash the systems of those who put our own citizens on trial.

That's human nature. When 'one-of-your-own' is in trouble, whatever they did somehow seems to pale in comparison. (Collectively, anyway)

The problem here is; Amanda Knox isn't 'one-of-my-own'. I don't know what Hilary is running over there for...I know she ain't plannin' on bringin' that crazy bitch back here! Shit, in fact...they can keep Hilary too! ;):D:lol:

There isn't a single legal system in existence that isn't flawed. But, that's not even an issue here. These people clearly had enough involvement in this crime to warrant jailtime. I would have the same opinion if Amanda Knox were tried here or there.

[Dtothe3]

I didn't intend to imply that you were trolling. I only wanted to point out that I found your statement to be rather broad. :)

I didn't mean to imply, that I thought you implied, I was trolling, it was literally a clean up op because my statement wasn't clear in it's meaning.


That's human nature. When 'one-of-your-own' is in trouble, whatever they did somehow seems to pale in comparison. (Collectively, anyway)

The problem here is; Amanda Knox isn't 'one-of-my-own'. I don't know what Hilary is running over there for...I know she ain't plannin' on bringin' that crazy bitch back here! Shit, in fact...they can keep Hilary too! ;):D:lol:

There isn't a single legal system in existence that isn't flawed. But, that's not even an issue here. These people clearly had enough involvement in this crime to warrant jailtime. I would have the same opinion if Amanda Knox were tried here or there.

I suppose it's basically the perfect photo op. "Miscarriage of Justice" a poor American girl stranded. Hillary sticks her face in, smiles for the camera and says "We'll do everything we can to bring her home". Whether she does or not doesn't matter.

[AcesandEights]

I just find it almost humourous that as a general, we always bash the systems of those who put our own citizens on trial.

I think it's pretty natural, actually. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think pretty normal for people in general, and not just people from the U.S.

But, yeah, it's the sort of funny that can make me scratch my head.

[Mike70]

There isn't a single legal system in existence that isn't flawed. But, that's not even an issue here. These people clearly had enough involvement in this crime to warrant jailtime. I would have the same opinion if Amanda Knox were tried here or there.

word. the italian legal system might seem a bit strange to american & british eyes but it is a far cry from being a kangaroo court.

if i were in legal trouble abroad, i'd gladly take my chances with the italians compared to iran, north korea or saudi arabia. if you want to bash legal systems, there are 3 perfect targets.

[DjfunkmasterG]

A fellow employee at the World Cup cafe in Seattle, where Knox worked, said: "The first time I met her she asked me if I was Jewish. I told her I was. She then screamed 'My people killed your people' and began laughing hysterically.

"I didn't know what to say. She just kept laughing about her Germans killing my Jews. After that, I did not like her. She really freaked me out."


That last Knox article just turned my stomach, regardless of the trial, I would happily send her to hell on that statement alone.

First off, whatever the article mentions is complete heresay and what really bothers me is that the population of the world takes as gold the word of any fluke who talks to the media. Honestly, some person who worked at a Starbucks with Amanda some time ago just happens to come out and make a statement to the media about a supposed conversation they had some time ago and we're supposed to believe every word of it?

I mean I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I am also not an easily led lamb/sheep to a slaughter.

When the media actually starts doing investigative journalism again, and not this Media entertainment... will just get on TV and tell you whatever and you will believe us crap, then maybe I may actually give some credibility to these sources.

What happened to the days of true investigation and finding out everything. Any respectable news organization would not post such an obscure and utterly un-verifiable comment.

I am in no way sticking for Amanda, I am just voicing my disgust with how easy people can be made to turn on someone based on a news comment from "a fellow employee" and shouldn't it be "ex-fellow employee" I mean Amanda has been in italy for what 2+ years now, so how can they say fellow employee? Really poor choice of reporting and lead-off to a "story".

[Dtothe3]

That last Knox article just turned my stomach, regardless of the trial, I would happily send her to hell on that statement alone.

I should probably have used "statement" where I used article. As you can see from above, this isn't the first time I've had to correct myself, I was half cut when I was originally posting.

For clarification, I actually meant if it was true, at the time I assumed it was sourced, this is a better board for investigation then most, which is why I stick around, intelligent posters generally mean interesting fellow posters.

As for being easily led, I'm not. I see the cracks in the BBC's "Non- Commercialistaion". I don't believe we went to war to help people (If we did we'd be in Burma not Bhagdad). I believe the worlds problem is not a supply of food, but a food distribution problem.

I'm assuming where you said "people" you meant "Dtothe3", I would investigate further, but organising an interview would be troublesome, time-consuming and cost me money :p so please save your disgust for others.

(Just so this doesn't happen again, the first paragraph was a quote, the following three paragraphs were clarification and the final was a tongue in cheek joke designed for me and DJ to have a laugh)

(The last statement (in brackets) was a joke)

(The last statement was a statement)

Hopefully I'm now done mopping up the residue of that lovely bottle of white I had.

(That was also statement...)

[triste realtà]

I haven't read but one more story but there are a few news stories floating around that Guede had broken into places by smashing windows and stealing knives or being caught with knives and other things he was trying to steal. The police let him go or something.

And that Amanda Knox brandished a knife at a man the day before the murder. That's all on page 1 of the search. Check em out:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=guede+caught+with+knife&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

On the other hand, there is a semi-recent Italian giallo called Bad Inclination that deals with the whole criminal investigation situation there and it portrays the police as incompetent and the prosecutors as conviction hungry no matter if they catch the right people or not. It's available in the Eurotrash triple feature from Shriek Show.

edit: That Albanian witness had been discredited I think I read so she didn't threaten him the day before but the series of Guede break-ins did happen and if he had been jailed maybe the murder wouldn't have.

[deadpunk]

I should probably have used "statement" where I used article. As you can see from above, this isn't the first time I've had to correct myself, I was half cut when I was originally posting.

(Just so this doesn't happen again, the first paragraph was a quote, the following three paragraphs were clarification and the final was a tongue in cheek joke designed for me and DJ to have a laugh)

(The last statement (in brackets) was a joke)

(The last statement was a statement)

Hopefully I'm now done mopping up the residue of that lovely bottle of white I had.

(That was also statement...)

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/thebeergoblin/applause-1.gif

:D

[triste realtà]

That Nazi queen statement was from the same site as the other two linked articles, the Telegraph site, but it was a different article I didn't link.

[SymphonicX]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8409273.stm

Knox's father says there wasn't one shred of DNA evidence in Meredith's room....

I know he's probably incentivised to lie about this but if this is true, it just adds more weight to the issue.