Lock the Door, Idiots!

[SRP76]

Doing the detective work for Night (ORIGINAL), I uncovered an interesting detail: Tom, Judy, and the Coopers are all retarded.

Here's how I got to that conclusion:

Exhibit A: Harry and Tom burst out of the basement after Ben (mostly by himself) boards things up. The dialogue makes clear that they had been locked in the basement since before Ben and Barbara arrived.

Conclusion 1: Tom, Judy, and the Coopers were already in the house when Barbara got there.

Exhibit B: A chewed-up corpse on the second-floor landing.

Exhibit C: Only zombies kill and eat live people in this film.

Exhibit D: Barbara never encounters a zombie inside the house until they wander in through the doors she and Ben open.

Exhibit E: Cooper's crew never mention encountering any zombie inside the house.

Conclusion 2: Zombie or zombies have been in the house before the heroes arrived, and have since left.

Exhibit F: Zombies do not demonstrate the ability to pull a door closed behind them when they leave.

Conclusion 3: The zombie or zombies that ate the upstairs occupant left at least one door wide open when they left.

Conclusion 4: There was an open door when the Cooper crew arrived at the house.

Exhibit G: When Barbara arrives, there are no open doors to the house. The front door is locked, and she opens the side door to enter.

Conclusion 5: The Cooper crew closed all doors when they arrived, possibly locking the front door.

Re-read Exhibit G. Barbara finds the side door unlocked!

Final Conclusion: The Cooper crew, despite having to close up any open doors, DOES NOT LOCK THE SIDE DOOR!

Now, what the hell is that?! You're going to hole up against a zombie invasion, but you don't even bother turning the damn lock to an outside door?! How stupid is that?! That's just begging to become a hot lunch.

[Trin]

You raise some interesting points. I don't think they were necessarily idiots based on your analysis. If the whole house had been locked up tight then it might've clued Ben into the idea that there were people in the cellar. It's valid to think that leaving the upstairs undisturbed would be the best way to blend in.

A better question you raise - what is the story behind the dead body upstairs? It's not a zombie which means it either WAS a zombie and was destroyed or it was a human that was killed in such a way that the brain was destroyed. The state of the face indicates a head trauma.

Did Cooper and crew kill an innocent person in taking over the house?
Was the person a zombie when Cooper showed up and they did her?
If she was a zombie, how did she become one?

There were no zombie remaining in the house so I think it's safe to say that Cooper and crew did not fight inside the house against zombies who left afterward. The zombies wouldn't have been apt to wander away so soon.

It's been too long since I've really watched Night.

[MoonSylver]

Probably panicked & fled to the basement & barricaded themselves in without checking to make sure the rest of the house was secure. Not the wisest move, but I can see it happening.

[sandrock74]

Probably panicked & fled to the basement & barricaded themselves in without checking to make sure the rest of the house was secure. Not the wisest move, but I can see it happening.

That is what I always assumed had happened.

[clanglee]

A better question you raise - what is the story behind the dead body upstairs? .

that's one of the things that I like about the remake. That little recent history with cousin Satchel and uncle Redge. A nice little explination.

[SymphonicX]

I think Romero/Russo probably just wanted a house with an open door that a bunch of people could be hiding in.

So that's what we got.

[wayzim]

that's one of the things that I like about the remake. That little recent history with cousin Satchel and uncle Redge. A nice little explination.

The NOTLD comic book series by FantaCo (91) had a prelude to set up all the scenes which were only alluded to in Romero's original film.
They decided the graveyard ghoul was the farmer who tumbled down the stairs and died. He rose, killed his wife, and then wandered off to the cemetary.

Wayne Z
"This ain't no midnight Horror flick or Creature Double Feature, Babe. "
DeadFall; Foreshadow.

[sandrock74]

The NOTLD comic book series by FantaCo (91) had a prelude to set up all the scenes which were only alluded to in Romero's original film.
They decided the graveyard ghoul was the farmer who tumbled down the stairs and died. He rose, killed his wife, and then wandered off to the cemetary.

Wayne Z
"This ain't no midnight Horror flick or Creature Double Feature, Babe. "
DeadFall; Foreshadow.

Oh my God! I saw that comic book once in a store that I would go to on occassion! For whatever reason, I didn't pick it up and I was never able to find it since. I thought maybe I had imagined it!

[deadpunk]

I'm not certain locking the door would have made a difference in this scenario anyway. First, the door has an upper panel made of glass that a zombie nearly stumbles through while Ben is boarding things up. Secondly, (although the Cooper crew had no way of knowing this at the time) the living dead don't really seem to grasp the concept of doorknobs ;)

[Skippy911sc]

This is another example of how a fast independent film can have a few mistakes. GAR is not a God he is human and something probable didn't need to make sense back then. I am not sure this type of film was expected to be analyzed frame by frame like us nut cases do. I still have trouble separating the remake and original stories in my head. So I was glad when someone mentioned that whole relation thing was in the remake.

[Andy]

that's one of the things that I like about the remake. That little recent history with cousin Satchel and uncle Redge. A nice little explination.

Maybe its becuase im not american.. but it always struck me "cousin satchel and uncle redge" were 2 of the most ridicolous names savini/romero could have chosen, ive never heard of anyone named "satchel".. First time i saw that i had to rewind the video to make sure id heard it right.

[sandrock74]

Maybe its becuase im not american.. but it always struck me "cousin satchel and uncle redge" were 2 of the most ridicolous names savini/romero could have chosen, ive never heard of anyone named "satchel".. First time i saw that i had to rewind the video to make sure id heard it right.

I am american and I have never heard the name Satchel either, so don't feel bad.

[bassman]

I had always assumed that it was short for Regis.....

[deadpunk]

I am american and I have never heard the name Satchel either, so don't feel bad.

Satchel Paige, anyone?

http://www.freewebs.com/baseballhound/photos/paige.jpg

and Rege is short for Regis. Happens to be my cousin's name, although we call him RJ...

:)

[sandrock74]

Satchel Paige, anyone?

http://www.freewebs.com/baseballhound/photos/paige.jpg

and Rege is short for Regis. Happens to be my cousin's name, although we call him RJ...

:)

Ah. Touche.

[Trin]

I thought Redge was short for Reggie or Reginald.

And I hated each and every NOTLD remake. Black and white original for me.

[DubiousComforts]

Final Conclusion: The Cooper crew, despite having to close up any open doors, DOES NOT LOCK THE SIDE DOOR!

Exhibit A: Barbara enters the farmhouse through the open kitchen/back door.

Conclusion 1: Either Cooper & company left the kitchen/back door open prior to barricading themselves in the cellar, or someone/something was in the house after the Coopers' arrival but prior to Ben & Barbara's arrival and has since departed.

Exhibit B: Barbara locks the kitchen/back door behind her, prior to investigating the rest of the house.

Exhibit C: The John Russo/Tire Iron Ghoul enters the farmhouse by pushing the kitchen/back door open.

Exhibit D: Those things don't have any strength.

Conclusion 2: The lock on the back door is busted and entry is easily attained even if the door is locked.

Solution: Board up the door, which Ben does upon arrival at the farmhouse.

[EvilNed]

What is this, Farmhouse-under-siege Troubleshooting? :p

[DubiousComforts]

What is this, Farmhouse-under-siege Troubleshooting? :p Well, the attic is the safest place.

[sandrock74]

Well, the attic is the safest place.

Agreed! Pull up the little cord thingee and then you don't even have to bother boarding up the entranceway.

The attic...the lazy mans zombie apocalypse hideout!

[hadrian0117]

Well, the attic is the safest place.

Well assuming it was windows or some way to get onto the roof (actually a rood deck or widow's walk would be ideal). Otherwise you have the same problems as the basement. You've trapped yourself someplace with only one way in or out, and you have no way of telling if a search party is nearby or signaling them.

[DubiousComforts]

Well assuming it was windows or some way to get onto the roof (actually a rood deck or widow's walk would be ideal). Otherwise you have the same problems as the basement.
The obvious advantage to the attic is that there is no way for the dead to get in unless you want them to. The key to survival is to cheat--an ability which the dead don't possess.

[Trin]

I'm not sure the attic is the obvious better choice.

We know it's cold weather. The attic would likely be unheated and drafty. The cellar would likely have a boiler or furnace of some kind. And just being underground the temperature would stay more moderate.

The cellar likely served as a storehouse for tools or supplies. Especially in those days when people preserved their own foods and stored them in cellars. Attics tend to have nothing of value.

Both have one way in. Both are death-traps if 100 zombies are inside the house and won't leave for days and days.

If you had to escape you could probably get out of the roof onto the top of the house. But what then? It's a two story drop to the ground and the zombies would see you up there trying to figure out how to climb down. Assuming you didn't fall peering over the edge or trying to catch hold of a downspout there'd be zombies waiting for you. The cellar might allow you to dig a tunnel out with a rudimentary shovel (jar, pail, spoon from yer ass). It's quiet, relatively safe, and you could end up quite a distance away.

Both are indefensible if the zombies have any grasp of tools or teamwork. Keep in mind that Cooper didn't know whether a zombie would go grab a ladder or not if they knew people were in the attic. Just like they could've gotten an axe or crowbar and made quick work of the cellar door. Both hideaways have real weaknesses if the zombies grasp simple use of tools.

It's an interesting comparison.

[BillyRay]

I suppose the first instinct in Farm Country during a crisis would be to head to the cellar. It works for tornadoes. Prolly not so much for the Living Dead.

Would Tommy have suggested the cellar? Or would Cooper's first instinct be to herd everyone downstairs? Was the attic even discussed? It's not as if these are holes in the narrative. The audience isn't supposed to be aware of the other characters until they poke their heads out.

[AcesandEights]

This is an amazing thread. Geeky, but impressive in many cases in the range of knowledge on display here.

And I think there is at least one potential future SAT or GRE question that will come out of this thread when all is said and done.

[deadpunk]

I'm not sure the attic is the obvious better choice.

We know it's cold weather. The attic would likely be unheated and drafty. The cellar would likely have a boiler or furnace of some kind. And just being underground the temperature would stay more moderate.

The cellar likely served as a storehouse for tools or supplies. Especially in those days when people preserved their own foods and stored them in cellars. Attics tend to have nothing of value.

Both have one way in. Both are death-traps if 100 zombies are inside the house and won't leave for days and days.

If you had to escape you could probably get out of the roof onto the top of the house. But what then? It's a two story drop to the ground and the zombies would see you up there trying to figure out how to climb down. Assuming you didn't fall peering over the edge or trying to catch hold of a downspout there'd be zombies waiting for you. The cellar might allow you to dig a tunnel out with a rudimentary shovel (jar, pail, spoon from yer ass). It's quiet, relatively safe, and you could end up quite a distance away.

Both are indefensible if the zombies have any grasp of tools or teamwork. Keep in mind that Cooper didn't know whether a zombie would go grab a ladder or not if they knew people were in the attic. Just like they could've gotten an axe or crowbar and made quick work of the cellar door. Both hideaways have real weaknesses if the zombies grasp simple use of tools.

It's an interesting comparison.

It's also an interesting concept for a side-story...what if there were a few people holed up in the attic that Cooper, Ben, and the rest of the gang never knew about? :shifty:

[DubiousComforts]

Both are indefensible if the zombies have any grasp of tools or teamwork.
I disagree regarding the attic. The purpose of either the attic or cellar is to remain hidden and avoid confrontation (Harry Cooper's M.O.), and in this regard, the attic has the clear edge.

Even if you had a pack of ghouls with the collective intelligence level of Big Daddy, I doubt they'd be smart enough to find a ladder, carry it upstairs and place it directly beneath an otherwise unnoticeable attic entrance. Your only worries in this scenario would be of the purely human variety.

Maybe we should pool our resources and begin an 800 zombie plague survival tip line:

For "mall" press 1, for "farmhouse" press 2, for "cellar" press 3, for "attic" press 4, for immediate assistance in the event of impending siege, press 0 and your crisis will be handled by the next available operator.

For Spanish, start panicking!

[Trin]

I disagree regarding the attic. The purpose of either the attic or cellar is to remain hidden and avoid confrontation (Harry Cooper's M.O.), and in this regard, the attic has the clear edge.
The key words there are "remain hidden." How do you do that if you're freezing cold? Or sneezing and coughing due to the dust and insulation? Or arguing over what to do next? There's no way the attic was masking the sounds of the people in it the same way the cellar would. You have to look at more than just which area was harder to find or defend. I'd bet that Ben would've found them before they came out if they'd been in the attic.


Even if you had a pack of ghouls with the collective intelligence level of Big Daddy, I doubt they'd be smart enough to find a ladder, carry it upstairs and place it directly beneath an otherwise unnoticeable attic entrance. Your only worries in this scenario would be of the purely human variety.
If Big Daddy knew the humans were in the attic I'm pretty sure he'd find a way to get them out. This is the same zombie that filled a car with gasoline and went and found a rolling fire source. I'm sure he could drag over a table and stand on it.

That aside, they aren't all Big Daddy. But let's remember, to Cooper's eyes they might have been. He's the one who claimed that they were capable of turning over a car. Cooper didn't know what the zombies were capable of in terms of strength, intelligence, or perception.

[sandrock74]

Speaking strictly in terms of military strategy, he (or she) whom controls the high ground, wins the day. Anyone will tell you that fighting an uphill battle just plain sucks! You're virtually guaranteed to lose men and equipment. Just going with this, I still say the attic works best as a place to find safety. Long term? Probably not. Temporary? Most definately.

If there was an attic in the farmhouse, and it wasn't used, they are all fools.

But, something else to consider is this: They were also fighting a two way battle. One, against the zombies outside the farmhouse. Two, against each other (mostly Ben vs. Cooper) inside the farmhouse. No force can win when fighting a two way war. Again, I am speaking in terms of military strategy.

[SRP76]

No force can win when fighting a two way war. Again, I am speaking in terms of military strategy.

That's been done, just 65 years ago.

Everyone's just assuming this house has an attic. We never see one in the movie, regardless of how the "real house" was laid out. It was used to represent a fictional house. There are houses without attics.

[deadpunk]

As far as attic v. cellar...

Someone posted ealier (can't be bothered to find it and quote lol) that since it works for tornadoes, etc... I would agree that this probably was the driving force behind the decision to enter the cellar. If you think about it; every natural disaster that we are schooled for we're generally told to go down. Get under the desk, go the corner of the cellar, etc etc.

The closest thing I can think of in regards to moving UP would be a flood, and even then there is no specific destination given. You're told to simply told to find higher ground.

Ben's decision was the best in my opinion. He chose to defend the whole house and utilize the basement as a last resort. If the attic had been an option, he probably would have stuck to his guns. No sense in cornering yourself in a hole (up or down) until every other option was exhausted.

And the attic is a pretty moot point, anyway. There appears to be only one staircase leading to the second floor, and it's fairly exposed. It would have taken less time to haul all the supplies in the house upstairs and remove enough risers from the staircase to make the entire second floor a defensible option.

[sandrock74]

It would have taken less time to haul all the supplies in the house upstairs and remove enough risers from the staircase to make the entire second floor a defensible option.


I have suggested this very tactic a buunch of times in the past. This would have been my plan from the very get-go. The time that was wasted boarding up the house could have been used moving a few supplies up and tearing out risers. Use the attic (assuming there is one there) as the fall back position.

This way you have free run of the upstairs, all it's windows, the attic (if it has one) and the roof. You'd be more than aware of any rescue party approaching and/or not so friendly people.

Seems simple enough to me.

[Philly_SWAT]

Everyone's just assuming this house has an attic. We never see one in the movie, regardless of how the "real house" was laid out. It was used to represent a fictional house. There are houses without attics.
Since earlier people were talking about Uncle Rege and Satchel, I assumed they were talking about the Night '90 house, which we do see has an attic.

[deadpunk]

Since earlier people were talking about Uncle Rege and Satchel, I assumed they were talking about the Night '90 house, which we do see has an attic.

Somewhere waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in this thread, SP acknowledged that Night90 never existed, that there was no remake, that NotLD should only ever be viewed in B&W and that anything created beyond the year 1970 was total gash...:lol:;):p

[Wyldwraith]

Applying logic to Night '90 is bad form,
If we were going to do that, everyone would've stopped, slapped their foreheads and gone "Damn, you're right Barbara. We can arm ourselves with blunt weapons and just speedwalk past the zombies. Maybe even stop and have a good cry while we keep one at arm's length by poking it with our revolver."

Or "Hey guys, how bout we use the truck that's on fumes to barrel out of the immediate area where zombies have congregated due to our presence, THEN hoof it from wherever we run out of gas. After all, it's the countryside. Simply NOT ENOUGH BODIES to cover every square mile of back road and pasture in 10-20 undead, even if EVERYONE has died/reanimated."

See what I mean? Any use of higher brain function during the Night '90 scenario results in Ben, Barbara, Tom and Judy at a minimum getting away. Let the Coopers have their cellar and enjoy getting eaten by their 12yr old when they can't find the stones to put her down to save themselves.

That's without even going into the destroy-the-stairway simplicity. Which we KNOW would've resulted in survival given the time interval until rednecks began arriving and picking off zombies from around the farmhouse from their pickups.

(Which BTW, could not have been a very dangerous situation for the rednecks for much of the last two days, else they would not have been DRINKING BEER. Rednecks are culturally backwards and religiously intolerant, NOT STUPID. The first guy with a buzz too slow to avoid getting bit would've resulted in a campfire and LOTS of black coffee being drunk)

Just some random thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

[Philly_SWAT]

Applying logic to Night '90 is bad form,
If we were going to do that, everyone would've stopped, slapped their foreheads and gone "Damn, you're right Barbara. We can arm ourselves with blunt weapons and just speedwalk past the zombies. Maybe even stop and have a good cry while we keep one at arm's length by poking it with our revolver."

Or "Hey guys, how bout we use the truck that's on fumes to barrel out of the immediate area where zombies have congregated due to our presence, THEN hoof it from wherever we run out of gas. After all, it's the countryside. Simply NOT ENOUGH BODIES to cover every square mile of back road and pasture in 10-20 undead, even if EVERYONE has died/reanimated."

See what I mean? Any use of higher brain function during the Night '90 scenario results in Ben, Barbara, Tom and Judy at a minimum getting away. Let the Coopers have their cellar and enjoy getting eaten by their 12yr old when they can't find the stones to put her down to save themselves.

That's without even going into the destroy-the-stairway simplicity. Which we KNOW would've resulted in survival given the time interval until rednecks began arriving and picking off zombies from around the farmhouse from their pickups.

(Which BTW, could not have been a very dangerous situation for the rednecks for much of the last two days, else they would not have been DRINKING BEER. Rednecks are culturally backwards and religiously intolerant, NOT STUPID. The first guy with a buzz too slow to avoid getting bit would've resulted in a campfire and LOTS of black coffee being drunk)

Just some random thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

Excellent points, those!

[deadpunk]

Applying logic to Night '90 is bad form,
If we were going to do that, everyone would've stopped, slapped their foreheads and gone "Damn, you're right Barbara. We can arm ourselves with blunt weapons and just speedwalk past the zombies. Maybe even stop and have a good cry while we keep one at arm's length by poking it with our revolver."

Or "Hey guys, how bout we use the truck that's on fumes to barrel out of the immediate area where zombies have congregated due to our presence, THEN hoof it from wherever we run out of gas. After all, it's the countryside. Simply NOT ENOUGH BODIES to cover every square mile of back road and pasture in 10-20 undead, even if EVERYONE has died/reanimated."

See what I mean? Any use of higher brain function during the Night '90 scenario results in Ben, Barbara, Tom and Judy at a minimum getting away. Let the Coopers have their cellar and enjoy getting eaten by their 12yr old when they can't find the stones to put her down to save themselves.

That's without even going into the destroy-the-stairway simplicity. Which we KNOW would've resulted in survival given the time interval until rednecks began arriving and picking off zombies from around the farmhouse from their pickups.

(Which BTW, could not have been a very dangerous situation for the rednecks for much of the last two days, else they would not have been DRINKING BEER. Rednecks are culturally backwards and religiously intolerant, NOT STUPID. The first guy with a buzz too slow to avoid getting bit would've resulted in a campfire and LOTS of black coffee being drunk)

Just some random thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

You're forgetting the main factor that led everyone to the farmhouse in the first place: PANIC. And, once that had subsided: SHOCK. And, no one in either of those two states is going to function rationally or normally.

Night90 focuses more on the psychological impact of the dead rising than the original. We see clear examples of this in Barbara's transformation from meek & mild to zombie ass kicker, in Ben starting as the leader, then continuing to stick to his decisions even when he knows they're wrong, etc...

[DubiousComforts]

Everyone's just assuming this house has an attic. We never see one in the movie, regardless of how the "real house" was laid out. It was used to represent a fictional house. There are houses without attics.
There is an attic in the farmhouse as seen in the film:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3742/nold1.jpg


And the attic is a pretty moot point, anyway. There appears to be only one staircase leading to the second floor, and it's fairly exposed. It would have taken less time to haul all the supplies in the house upstairs and remove enough risers from the staircase to make the entire second floor a defensible option.

There are actually two staircases in the farmhouse. The second one is covered by a wall in the living room. You can see a few of the steps sticking out when Ben drags the tire iron ghoul away.

Technically, we also see that the cellar has an entrance from the outside. Even though they didn't use the actual basement at the farmhouse, they do mention that it has a "fruit cellar" for the purpose of finding the mason jars.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/277/nold2.jpg

In addition, the actual door to the cellar stairs was located in the kitchen, as is the case with most farmhouses built during the same period. The basement door was moved to the living room because that's where all the action takes place. Here is a shot of the door to the cellar stairs in the kitchen. Ben takes this same door and nails it across the kitchen door, but the story is so compelling that you never wonder where he got it from.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5128/nold3.jpg

Obviously, it would be a lot easier to defend a single door tucked away in the kitchen than the more exposed cellar door in the living room.

[capncnut]

Stunning proof, my friend.

[Philly_SWAT]

Excellent post...with pictures even! Too bad it might get lost in the "post tree" and many may not see it. Anyways, I got two questions for you....one, could you post a screencap of the 2nd stairway you speak of, complete with red arrow? I have looked for it in the scene you mention, and do not see any other steps. And two, the last picture you show, is that a screencap from the movie, or just a still shot you got from somewhere else? I can clearly identify it from being in the house in question, yet I could not find that shot in the movie (although I was just scanning through looking for it, I didnt watch the whole movie). Can you give me a time stamp and/or say what scene proceeds it?

[DubiousComforts]

one, could you post a screencap of the 2nd stairway you speak of, complete with red arrow? I have looked for it in the scene you mention, and do not see any other steps.

Since you enjoyed those red arrows so much, here are two screengrabs for the price of one.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3730/nold5.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3294/nold6.jpg

There also exists a behind-the-scenes still (I believe on the 25th laserdisc) of Romero filming Judy O'Dea on the staircase while he crouches down on the second set of stairs, but I don't have it handy. There is another behind-the-scenes shot of a blonde woman standing on those stairs and poking her head around the wall as Romero films the ghouls banging about the living room (also not handy at the moment).

This staircase leading into the living room doesn't add to the story, however, so I believe it's been intentionally downplayed in the film which is the point that I was attempting to make with the other screencaps.


And two, the last picture you show, is that a screencap from the movie, or just a still shot you got from somewhere else? I can clearly identify it from being in the house in question, yet I could not find that shot in the movie (although I was just scanning through looking for it, I didnt watch the whole movie). Can you give me a time stamp and/or say what scene proceeds it?

You mean you're not able to play the entire movie in your brain? :D

The screencap of the cellar door is a shot from the movie when Ben rummages through the kitchen drawer for nails. The view of the door is taken just before Ben rushes into frame from the right (you can see his shadow there). It takes place around 21:00 going by the 40th anniversary DVD.

At around 23:00 you can see the kitchen door frame to the cellar stairs. The door has been taken off and the fake wall that Vince Survinski built to fill in the frame is visible.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5668/nold4.jpg

Perhaps you haven't seen Autopsy of the Dead (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=14553) yet, but the mystery behind the cellar door is investigated in great detail. ;)

[Philly_SWAT]

Since you enjoyed those red arrows so much, here are two screengrabs for the price of one.
Yes I do enjoy red arrows, which you may have noticed I use often when posting my own pics! I was searching the wrong part of the movie actually. Even thought you clearly stated when he was dragging the "tire iron ghoul", I was thinking of the lady upstairs, as that was the pic on the screen. My bad. If you had said the "Russo Zombie" I would have known right off! :)


There also exists a behind-the-scenes still (I believe on the 25th laserdisc) of Romero filming Judy O'Dea on the staircase while he crouches down on the second set of stairs, but I don't have it handy. There is another behind-the-scenes shot of a blonde woman standing on those stairs and poking her head around the wall as Romero films the ghouls banging about the living room (also not handy at the moment).
On the subject on Laserdiscs..I have just about all of them (The Perfect Collection should arrive in my mail in a couple of weeks :) ), the laserdisc player I have does not have the original remote, and I dont think there are buttons on the player itself to access special features (which is INCREDIBLY dumb to have a piece of electronics where you HAVE to use the remote), so even though I realize that you may not be a LD player expert, do you have any knowledge/advice on how I can access the special features on my ld's? (I figure its worth a try at asking)

You mean you're not able to play the entire movie in your brain? :D
No I have not committed it to memory yet. Dawn on the other hand.....

The screencap of the cellar door is a shot from the movie when Ben rummages through the kitchen drawer for nails. The view of the door is taken just before Ben rushes into frame from the right (you can see his shadow there). It takes place around 21:00 going by the 40th anniversary DVD.
Ah I see it now. Easy to see why I missed it now!

At around 23:00 you can see the kitchen door frame to the cellar stairs. The door has been taken off and the fake wall that Vince Survinski built to fill in the frame is visible.
Indeed.

Perhaps you haven't seen Autopsy of the Dead (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=14553) yet, but the mystery behind the cellar door is investigated in great detail. ;)
No I havent seen it yet. I hope to one day, and perhaps come to the Living Dead Festival next year.

[FoodFight]

We know it's cold weather. The attic would likely be unheated and drafty. The cellar would likely have a boiler or furnace of some kind. And just being underground the temperature would stay more moderate.


I gotta disagree with that one. It was in the lower '80s in the late evening. If anything, the attic would have been sweltering.

[Wyldwraith]

As to the comment about panic followed by shock,
No.

People in shock do not launch effective precision attacks on specific areas of an opponent's body, then quickly dispose of said opponent's body while keeping an eye out so as not to get bushwhacked while dumping the body out the kitchen door.

People in shock do NOT make strenuous efforts to calm down others, and get them all working off the same page of the same plan.

People in shock, when confronted by a secondary or tertiary exposure to the threat that allegedly caused them to go into shock do not perform effective fighting withdrawals versus 10x more threats than the original threat. (Ben fending off the small horde as he struggles to get back onto the porch while Barbara and Cooper are struggling over the gun and door).

As to the teenage couple, I saw a bit of fear and serious concern about the situation from Judy, but NEVER anything approaching shock or panic. Shock induced by emotional triggers and not injury is what Barbara looks like right after meeting up with Ben in the original NotLD, and subsequently at various stress-points thereafter.

You could make the argument that Cooper was suffering from an extreme emotional disturbance from some kind, but the others are simply too in control and acting in much too premeditated a manner for shock or panic to be a factor. Fear for their safety, confusion mixed with revulsion about what was going on, and significant stress from the interpersonal conflicts inside the farmhouse? Of course. But nothing so serious as to prevent rational activity. Not in Savini's Night '90 anyways.

The problem with the group's behavior was not that they were mentally or emotionally incapable of making good decisions. The problem was that the two most dominant personalities polarized the group and diverted much of the group's energies away from survival strategies and into pissing match supporting. By the time the situation grew so dire, and the threat so immediate as to end the dominance struggling, it was too late for most of the more effective strategies to be employed.

Now, if you want to talk Romero's Night, you can definitely make the argument that serious emotional disturbances played a large part in dooming the group, but still not as large a part as simple poor judgment and snap-decision making.

Of course this is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

BTW, good looking out with those pictures. Very interesting and illuminating to conclusively illustrate the 2nd staircase and the existence of an attic as well as a second below-ground room. Always seemed odd to me the basement door being in the living room. Had never seen a two-story with a cellar door anywhere but off a hallway or kitchen wall.

[deadpunk]

As to the comment about panic followed by shock,
No.


Ummm...yes.

That is all. :p

[DubiousComforts]

the laserdisc player I have does not have the original remote, and I dont think there are buttons on the player itself to access special features (which is INCREDIBLY dumb to have a piece of electronics where you HAVE to use the remote), so even though I realize that you may not be a LD player expert, do you have any knowledge/advice on how I can access the special features on my ld's? (I figure its worth a try at asking)
Unlike DVDs, laserdiscs don't have menus that require intricate navigation. It's been my experience that LD content is linear and the only navigation needed is fast-forwarding or advancing to the next chapter. This option is usually available on the player itself. I believe that all the DEAD related laserdisc sets have the movies and special features on separate discs.


Always seemed odd to me the basement door being in the living room. Had never seen a two-story with a cellar door anywhere but off a hallway or kitchen wall.
Good point, and also the reason that stairs leading to a basement are typically situated beneath the staircase leading to the second story, which makes sense in the case of the NIGHT farmhouse. Otherwise, you'd just have a hole in the floor leading straight downward.


No I havent seen it yet. I hope to one day, and perhaps come to the Living Dead Festival next year.
No rush to view AUTOPSY. Just wanted to point out that if you enjoy the level of analysis in this thread, then the documentary and its special features were made for you. ;)

[Philly_SWAT]

Unlike DVDs, laserdiscs don't have menus that require intricate navigation. It's been my experience that LD content is linear and the only navigation needed is fast-forwarding or advancing to the next chapter. This option is usually available on the player itself. I believe that all the DEAD related laserdisc sets have the movies and special features on separate discs.Now that you say that, I believe you are in fact correct. It has been a while since I tried to play one. After reading what you wrote, I remember that the thing I couldnt access was the commentary tracks, which is what I really wanted to hear.

No rush to view AUTOPSY. Just wanted to point out that if you enjoy the level of analysis in this thread, then the documentary and its special features were made for you. ;)
I do enjoy redicilous levels of analysis...therefore I know I would enjoy AOTD. I thought I read somewhere that there were autograph copies to be had for initial orders...any of those left?

[DubiousComforts]

Located the photo that shows the top of the second staircase--complete with red arrow!

Romero is filming from the steps while Duane Jones drags away Kyra Schon, who is acting as a stand-in for the dead body. This angle wasn't used in the film; the shot that was used would have been filmed from the doorway seen at the left.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7337/nold7.jpg

I'm wondering how they were able to take this photo. Either somebody is standing on (or leaning way over) the divider next to the staircase, or there is more to the upstairs hallway, perhaps a door leading to a room towards the right which would be located above the kitchen.


I thought I read somewhere that there were autograph copies to be had for initial orders...any of those left?

Autographed copies of AUTOPSY are still available (http://autopsyofthedead.com/news.html)! ;)

[/public service message]

[dmbfanintn]

Well, the attic is the safest place.

Are you outta your phukin mind, I ain't barricading myself in no damn roof, shit I'd rather take my chances with the cars....Oh, wait, wrong movie!!

[Epidemic79]

Doing the detective work for Night (ORIGINAL), I uncovered an interesting detail: Tom, Judy, and the Coopers are all retarded.

Here's how I got to that conclusion:

Exhibit A: Harry and Tom burst out of the basement after Ben (mostly by himself) boards things up. The dialogue makes clear that they had been locked in the basement since before Ben and Barbara arrived.

Conclusion 1: Tom, Judy, and the Coopers were already in the house when Barbara got there.

Exhibit B: A chewed-up corpse on the second-floor landing.

Exhibit C: Only zombies kill and eat live people in this film.

Exhibit D: Barbara never encounters a zombie inside the house until they wander in through the doors she and Ben open.

Exhibit E: Cooper's crew never mention encountering any zombie inside the house.

Conclusion 2: Zombie or zombies have been in the house before the heroes arrived, and have since left.

Exhibit F: Zombies do not demonstrate the ability to pull a door closed behind them when they leave.

Conclusion 3: The zombie or zombies that ate the upstairs occupant left at least one door wide open when they left.

Conclusion 4: There was an open door when the Cooper crew arrived at the house.

Exhibit G: When Barbara arrives, there are no open doors to the house. The front door is locked, and she opens the side door to enter.

Conclusion 5: The Cooper crew closed all doors when they arrived, possibly locking the front door.

Re-read Exhibit G. Barbara finds the side door unlocked!

Final Conclusion: The Cooper crew, despite having to close up any open doors, DOES NOT LOCK THE SIDE DOOR!

Now, what the hell is that?! You're going to hole up against a zombie invasion, but you don't even bother turning the damn lock to an outside door?! How stupid is that?! That's just begging to become a hot lunch.


Okay,just spent about an hour trying to absorb this old thread.

I have always wondered what the backstory was on the Dead Lady upstairs. I know the body was little more than Romero set dressing,but who was she? Was that owner of the farm house? Who killed her,Ghoul or someone else. There was obviously some Zombie activity in the house prior to the arrival of the living would-be defenders. One or more appear to have snacked on the carcass,tho I do like the speculation that maybe the Cooper Crew might have eliminated the occupant of the home and just left it out of their How and Why story. Although there doesnt appear to be many signs of struggle (unlike in Night '90)-in the house when Barb arrives or when Ben starts poking around. -Except for the stream of blood running down the wall upstairs!-

We also should not forget that the Coopers and Tom & Judy did Not arrive together. T & J showed up first cause they were locals & knew the place was there to begin with. Then the Cooper family I guess just lucked-into finding the house,there car being overturned roughly a mile from there. But Tom does say that "WE KNEW THE OLD HOUSE WAS HERE,SO WE CAME IN AND FOUND THE LADY UPSTAIRS DEAD....THEN THESE OTHER PEOPLE CAME (Coopers)AND WE ALL WENT DOWN INTO THE CELLAR"

The Attic and upper floor issue is another interesting bit. Great points made in that discussion. I've always thought for 20 years now how easy it would have been for them all to just work together and secure the entire house,but oh well.

As for the open/unlocked door issue that Barb gains access thru. Well the crew probably did do a half assed door check before heading downstairs,but there appears to have been several doors in that place. Maybe they just happened to miss that one door in haste,or like someone posted earlier,maybe it was just a shoddy old lock.

Either way we cant look too deep into this tip bit. For story sake there had to be a way for Barb to get into the farmhouse,otherwise there would be no movie-lol.

But I digg analyzing the Original NIGHT,I just could'nt resist exuming this thread.

[GRMonLI]

of teh movie, he explains that the house was lived in by an older woman and her 10 year old grandson.

In one part he says that the kids room is messed up with no sign of the kid.

Just my two cents!!!!

[Epidemic79]

of teh movie, he explains that the house was lived in by an older woman and her 10 year old grandson.

In one part he says that the kids room is messed up with no sign of the kid.

Just my two cents!!!!


FASCINATING!

Thank you for that.

I'd like to get my claws on that novelization.

And I do think that Kid Zombies are something that is not nearly presented enough in films. We see them sparingly,like DAWN '78 of course,classicaly done too I mite add. But not very many others. They would undoubtly be swelling the ranks of the Undead.

And unfortunately no,Children of the Living Dead contributes nothing worth while. In fact,I have successfully blocked that flick from my mind and have almost purged it from memory comlpetely.

Thanks again tho!

[SRP76]

Child zombies might have a hard time existing, other than teens. Youngsters are far smaller and weaker than adults, so when zombies get them, they might be "feasted on" completely. Since there's far less meat on their bones, there might not be enough left to reanimate as a "zombie".

[sandrock74]

Child zombies might have a hard time existing, other than teens. Youngsters are far smaller and weaker than adults, so when zombies get them, they might be "feasted on" completely. Since there's far less meat on their bones, there might not be enough left to reanimate as a "zombie".

Good point!

Heck, in the Resident Evil games, either there were NO children in Raccoon City, or they were all zombie chow. The ONLY kid we ever even see is too short for the zombies to even try to eat...they just puke on her instead! :elol: