Dr Who Christmas Special..

[Andy]

First part of david tennants last episodes as the doctor, and man was it good.. anyone else catch this? The master was played brilliantly (again) by simm and seemed somehow more powerful and more insane than before.

This kept me gripped, seriously, i loved it.. for a few moments in the junkyard when the doctor and the master were just talking i thought they were going to team up against some greater evil (just before he was kidnapped) which would of been cool to see but didnt happen, i guess they had to use simm as the bad guy again.

Also the ending.. the timelords returning? wow i didnt see that coming. seriously.


Anyone else catch this? i loved it and i cant wait for the second part on new years day.

[capncnut]

Yup, loved it too! Thought the first fifteen minutes was very slow but boy did it spice up. Simm was great as The Master, really off his trolley. And it was a surprise to see Timothy Dalton make an appearance.

As for the Timelords returning, they do that quite often during regeneration episodes.

[Andy]

You can probally tell im not a huge longterm follower then lol

I Didnt like christopher eccleston and never got into the older series but i really did get into the david tennant years, so yeah ive never seen a regeneration before except the half regeneration when a darlek killed him and then he regenerated as himself again..

[Danny]

The episode was kind of heavy with filler, could have had a little shaved off and replaced with more main story but it was pretty good considering davis' writing has gotten more up its ass and pretentious over the last 2 seasons this was a nice return to engaging dialogue.
Though i imagine a lot of that was thanks to the performances of tennant, brimley and and simm which where all great. I can take or leave Catherine tate though, ive never considered her a great actress.

Sucks we gotta wait till next week for the proper story after a weeks long anticipation built up from this set up episode, i really think it should have been a 2 hour special.

[krakenslayer]

I thought it was awesome. Simm played the Master role a little more "evil" this time around which fitted better with the character and canon (although, personally, I miss all the "bwahaha"-ing and moustache twisting of the Delgado-Master era). The build up and everything was perfect, pure drama, utterly gripping and exciting. My only complaint was the Master resurrection scene which just seemed a little too "Harry Potter", not in keeping with the tone of the show and possibly even slightly lazy writing... but I'm just trying to find something to complain about because, really it kicked ass.

I'm looking forward to the return of the Time Lords on New Years Day, now. I thought Timothy Dalton was excellent as the narrator/Time Lord President and enjoying him in both this and Hot Fuzz makes me wonder why we don't see more of this wonderful actor on our screens these days.

There is actually a clip from the New Years Day episode on the BBC Doctor Who page - click (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S0_09?episode=S0_09&character=&action=videostream&playlist=/doctorwho/playlists/s0_09/video/s0_10_sce_01.xml&video=1&date=&summary=&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s0_10_scene_01) (UK users only, sadly) - which seems to show a flashback to a Time Lord council meeting at the end of the Great Time War (that wiped them out of the current time line), with Dalton and his high falootin' Time Lord friends discussing the Doctor's plan of ending the war by wiping out both Time Lords and Daleks with a secret weapon and arguing about what to do. It seems likely from this scene that an enclave of Time Lords anticipated the Doctor's move and hid away in Voidspace or wherever to escape death and are returning now that everything has died down, and intend to execute the Doctor and undo everything he has done (including his act of ending the Time War), with disastrous consequences - hence: "The End of Time" (as we know it). That's my theory anyway. But I'm still not sure how The Master's part will unfold in all this, although I suspect from some allusions in the episode that there may be more to Donna's Dad than meets the eye... *ahem* magic fob watch *cough*

Also, it strikes me that the Doctor referred to in the flashback must be either the Paul McGann or Christopher Eccleston Doctor. I wonder if we'll be getting any glimpses of them in flashback form, or otherwise.

[MinionZombie]

Wasn't amazing, but wasn't shite either. Clearly a set-up-everything-for-the-finale-episode type show.

What fucked me off no end was this (bit of a rant):

"Oh have you heard Obama's gonna announce how he's gonna save the world economy tonight?" - FUCK OFF WITH THIS SYCOPHANTIC BULLSHIT!!!

The sheer volume of Obama cock-sucking that goes on really pisses me off. Just being "not Bush" isn't good enough, and he can't orate for shit without autocues so he can robotically turn his head from side-to-side every five seconds.

:rant:

While it was definitely good to get him as the next President to improve America's world standing, the frothy-mouthed Bush bashers (I'm neither here nor there about American politics, it's all either way too right or way too left for me) have done a 180 and are now frothy mouthed with imaginary Saint Obama man seed, that they've conjured up from wet dreams about him.

Meanwhile, Gitmo is still hanging around, and we have to endure this sort of sycophantic garbage infecting an Xmas Day episode of Dr Who.

If Bush had been in, or any Republican for that matter, I guarantee you there wouldn't have been that moment in this episode. Oi, Davies - keep your politics out of Dr Who. It's a show about a Time Lord, for crying out loud!

But please don't anyone take this thread into political territory, like I said I'm neither here nor there on American politics, but the above rant is connected to a specific small part of this particular episode that really pissed me off.

Everything else though was alright. Wasn't thrilled or chilled or anything, and quite frankly The Waters of Mars was a much better episode. I'm expecting the final Tennant episode, airing in a few days, to be a doozy though.

[Andy]

Seriously... MZ.... is there any topic you cant find a political rant in?

[MinionZombie]

Seriously... MZ.... is there any topic you cant find a political rant in?
I think in this case, when you're being brow-beaten with sycophantic Obama worship in that aforementioned chunk, I'm fully entitled to be annoyed as a viewer.

It's Dr-sodding-Who, not The Guardian!

[Andy]

Its just part of the story mate, it would be too unrealistic (even for Dr Who) if it said gordon brown saves the world and the writers knew that.

Anyway, back to the topic, i thought waters of mars was abit boring to be honest, but i loved this, it sets up brilliantly for the final new years day episode which i cant wait for.

It may well be the last episode i watch as im a huge tennant fan, i didnt like christopher eccleston at all and i dont like the look of this new guy, but we'll see how he performs.

[capncnut]

Matt Smith is gonna be a departure, that's for sure.

It's not like Doctor Who from 1963-1981 where you totally forgot about the previous incarnation after a few new stories. After the 2005 revival, it was a whole new ball game. Tennant so obviously destroys Christopher Ecclestone in many ways but, Ecclestone was at least watchable.

I really don't know if I can handle a kid in the role of the Doctor. Peter Davidson was twenty-eight (the second youngest ever) when he took over from Tom Baker, and I thought he was one of the worst. :dead:

[Mike70]

i love the old doctor who, esp. jon pertwee but the newer stuff doesn't do anything for me. i liked the first season of the new show but there is something about david tennant that i cannot stand. i can't put a finger on it but i can't bear watching that guy for more than 3 minutes at a stretch.

the episode with the "fat creatures" in it was the one that did it for me. i hated that ep and haven't watched one since.

[capncnut]

the episode with the "fat creatures" in it was the one that did it for me. i hated that ep and haven't watched one since.
Yeah, that one was spectacularly crap.

[krakenslayer]

I think in this case, when you're being brow-beaten with sycophantic Obama worship in that aforementioned chunk, I'm fully entitled to be annoyed as a viewer.

It's Dr-sodding-Who, not The Guardian!

To be fair, if you watch it again I think you'll find that the whole Obama thing was done with tongue very firmly in cheek, and not sycophantically at all. We see him turned into a white man on Christmas Day, fer chrissakes! :lol:

---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------


i love the old doctor who, esp. jon pertwee but the newer stuff doesn't do anything for me. i liked the first season of the new show but there is something about david tennant that i cannot stand. i can't put a finger on it but i can't bear watching that guy for more than 3 minutes at a stretch.

the episode with the "fat creatures" in it was the one that did it for me. i hated that ep and haven't watched one since.

That one and Fear Her (about a little girl that could make anything she drew come to life) were the worst of the series so far. But the standard of the show is a hundred miles above the quality of those particular episodes.

[MinionZombie]

Just the thing about 'Obama's gonna save the world's economies with this super amazing idea' thing ... why not "Obama's gonna make an important speech about the economy/the war/something alien related" (after all, Torchwood takes place in the same universe, and we just had all that malarky with the 456 or whatever they were called - it could be a speech about an investigation into the whole event, being that so much was secret behind-closed-doors type meetings and such, and there was the whole idea of exposing the stuff using those contact lense cameras).

If it had just been something a tiny little different in that one small aspect, then I wouldn't have been annoyed.

As such though, Obama saving the world's economies with one speech just came off as sycophantic. Didn't feel at all comedic to me - if it had been a sleight against him, then it would have played better if someone had scoffed referencing Gordon Brown's "saved the world" comment.

They would have never had Brown do it as it's so obvious that he's a fucking ass clown, an inept toss pot who has fuck all idea about financial issues.

...

Also, in Dr Who the UK PM isn't Brown or Blair or anyone. So why does the American President have to be the real one?

...

As such, felt more like sycophantic Obama worship to me, especially after Davies spouted a dreary eulogy (in the Daily Mirror of all crap holes) for what he envisions to be the end of the BBC in a few years because 'the nasty Tories till kill it off' ... :rolleyes:

...

Davies - keep your politics to yourself, and keep it out of Dr Who - and if you simply must make it a joke, make it a really CLEAR joke and avoid sycophancy like the fucking plague.

...

Anyway, it was only a small bit, but it was a small bit that stuck in my throat like a nuisance. The rest of the episode was workable but nothing amazing - hence why I think Waters of Mars was a much better episode.

WoM felt like The Thing in some respects, and the whole thing of the Dr having to stick by history even if it'll mean people's deaths, and then when he tries and it still ends in death it sends him into a bit of a spiral - that was much more interesting than The Master eating a cheese burger and flashing his blue skull at people.

Xmas Day's episode was purely all set-up for New Years Day's episode.

[BillyRay]

Look, I'm just glad I didn't have to wait six months to see the latest Who here in the States. And based on the BBCA ratings for this one & Waters of Mars - we shouldn't be waiting very long from now on.

[krakenslayer]

The Master's Facebook page: http://the-hellish-gnome.deviantart.com/art/The-Master-s-Facebook-Page-148491314 :lol::lol:

[Andy]

The Master's Facebook page: http://the-hellish-gnome.deviantart.com/art/The-Master-s-Facebook-Page-148491314 :lol::lol:
lol i like it :)

[Andy]

So, we havnt really touched on part 2 except for a couple of messages in the shoutbox..

Whats everyones thoughts? i personally felt pretty let down, i could see the master eventually siding with the doctor and i said that ages ago, you could tell in part one and even somwhat in the masters other episodes (sound of the drums and last of the timelords) that at least part of him wants redemption, but he just cant accept it and he does respect the doctor in a way.

Timothy dalton was awesome, you cant go wrong with him though.. he should of had more screen time, which is my only complaint there. Going back to the master breifly, his plan felt very clumsy and not well thought through at all, not a classic master plan at all.. i mean did he really think that he could just take over the timelords as easilly as he did mankind? Not a chance.

Tennants death and exit was very rushed and a real anti-climax if you ask me, i didnt like it at all, for all that tennant has done bringing a new generation of Dr Who fans in, they could of written him out alot better than this i thought.

Last thought, matt smith or whatever he's called.. the 11th doctor. already i dont like him. Ill give him a chance and watch a couple of episodes (for the companian in police uniform if nothing else :D ) but i know im not going to like him right now.

[Kaos]

Thread moved.

[krakenslayer]

So, we havnt really touched on part 2 except for a couple of messages in the shoutbox..

Whats everyones thoughts? i personally felt pretty let down, i could see the master eventually siding with the doctor and i said that ages ago, you could tell in part one and even somwhat in the masters other episodes (sound of the drums and last of the timelords) that at least part of him wants redemption, but he just cant accept it and he does respect the doctor in a way.

Timothy dalton was awesome, you cant go wrong with him though.. he should of had more screen time, which is my only complaint there. Going back to the master breifly, his plan felt very clumsy and not well thought through at all, not a classic master plan at all.. i mean did he really think that he could just take over the timelords as easilly as he did mankind? Not a chance.

Tennants death and exit was very rushed and a real anti-climax if you ask me, i didnt like it at all, for all that tennant has done bringing a new generation of Dr Who fans in, they could of written him out alot better than this i thought.

Last thought, matt smith or whatever he's called.. the 11th doctor. already i dont like him. Ill give him a chance and watch a couple of episodes (for the companian in police uniform if nothing else :D ) but i know im not going to like him right now.

I did like it overall, although, like you, I felt it was somewhat of an anticlimax.

I was hoping, for one, that we'd get to see more of the Time War or even some scenes of a previous doctor fighting the Time War, but nope. The Time Lords' return (only to be vanquished two minutes later) was also a little disappointing, because everything seemed to be built up to their becoming a permanent feature in the Whoniverse again, possibly as semi-villains/anti-heroes, but nope.

However, I will admit that most of these complaints stemmed from my personal expectations which were largely brewed up in my own imagination. I can't blame them for not making the episode of my dreams.

That said, though, there were also a few interesting or confusing plot points that popped up briefly, only to never be addressed again: The "defence" mechanism the Doctor implanted in Donna? The White Point Star that allows the Time Lords to return - what the hell is that? Were the Master clones simply drones under M's pseudo-control, or were they all individual, self-aware, independent Masters? Speaking of the Master, we never see what happened to him - did he get sucked in with the Time Lords or just bugger off while the Doctor was sprawled on the floor? Etc, etc.

There were also a few things that just seemed lazy or weird: The Doctor can now survive falling thousands of feet, crashing through weatherproof glass and smashing into a marble floor? A lesser fall sparked the regeneration between the fourth and fifth Doctor! The machine that irradiated the Doctor - why the hell would it be designed to vent toxic gas into the operator's booth!? And how come the Doctor knew it would do that, when just last episode he had no idea what the thing was?

Overall, however, I liked it. The performances from Tennant, Cribbins (give the man his own spin-off!), Dalton and Simm were all absolutely perfect. The way the plot and the emotional aspects played out between the Doctor and the Master was very well done. All the action was typically exciting, and dripping with gripping drama. I enjoyed the last twenty minutes, where the Doctor says goodbye to all his recent companions, and the "Mos Eisley Cantina" sequence was cool.

In all, a great episode, but as Tennant's final one - well, it pushed all the buttons, but didn't quite have the power I'd expected.

As for the regeneration itself, it did seem a bit anticlimactic simply because it was the same (more or less) as the last one. Back in the day, each regeneration was slightly different - four-to-five has a ghostlike backwards echo of the Doctor's fifth regeneration haunt him through his final adventures, finally combining with him as the regeneration takes place; five-to-six actually takes us inside the fevered mind of the doctor during the regeneration, into a hallucinogenic nightmare as the Master (from the Doctor's own subconscious) taunts him and encourages him to die, before bright colours blast the screen and the "new" Doctor bursts back to life. Ten-to-eleven was just identical to the nine-to-ten, Jacoby-Simm (Master) and ten-to-ten (red-herring) regenerations we've seen in the revived series. Yawn. Granted, though, it was genuinely heartbreaking to see the Doctor face the change frightened and alone.

Finally: the new guy. To be honest, I have no idea what he will be like. He seemed to be doing a semi-Tennant impression when he revived, so it's difficult to judge how he will really take the role on. The Doctor's new personality traditionally takes one full episode, or thereabouts, to fully take shape (both due to the effects of the regeneration and the actor cutting a niche for himself). From what I saw, he can at least carry the role in a basic fashion, but whether or not he will be a bit annoying (as he initially seemed) remains to be seen. Looking back, I have to admit I "knew" I was going to dislike Tennant after his first appearance, but he gradually became one of my favourite Doctors.

So, we'll see. :)

[Andy]

I did like it overall, although, like you, I felt it was somewhat of an anticlimax.

I was hoping, for one, that we'd get to see more of the Time War or even some scenes of a previous doctor fighting the Time War, but nope. The Time Lords' return (only to be vanquished two minutes later) was also a little disappointing, because everything seemed to be built up to their becoming a permanent feature in the Whoniverse again, possibly as semi-villains/anti-heroes, but nope.

However, I will admit that most of these complaints stemmed from my personal expectations which were largely brewed up in my own imagination. I can't blame them for not making the episode of my dreams.

That said, though, there were also a few interesting or confusing plot points that popped up briefly, only to never be addressed again: The "defence" mechanism the Doctor implanted in Donna? The White Point Star that allows the Time Lords to return - what the hell is that? Were the Master clones simply drones under M's pseudo-control, or were they all individual, self-aware, independent Masters? Speaking of the Master, we never see what happened to him - did he get sucked in with the Time Lords or just bugger off while the Doctor was sprawled on the floor? Etc, etc.

There were also a few things that just seemed lazy or weird: The Doctor can now survive falling thousands of feet, crashing through weatherproof glass and smashing into a marble floor? A lesser fall sparked the regeneration between the fourth and fifth Doctor! The machine that irradiated the Doctor - why the hell would it be designed to vent toxic gas into the operator's booth!? And how come the Doctor knew it would do that, when just last episode he had no idea what the thing was?

Overall, however, I liked it. The performances from Tennant, Cribbins (give the man his own spin-off!), Dalton and Simm were all absolutely perfect. The way the plot and the emotional aspects played out between the Doctor and the Master was very well done. All the action was typically exciting, and dripping with gripping drama. I enjoyed the last twenty minutes, where the Doctor says goodbye to all his recent companions, and the "Mos Eisley Cantina" sequence was cool.

In all, a great episode, but as Tennant's final one - well, it pushed all the buttons, but didn't quite have the power I'd expected.

As for the regeneration itself, it did seem a bit anticlimactic simply because it was the same (more or less) as the last one. Back in the day, each regeneration was slightly different - four-to-five has a ghostlike backwards echo of the Doctor's fifth regeneration haunt him through his final adventures, finally combining with him as the regeneration takes place; five-to-six actually takes us inside the fevered mind of the doctor during the regeneration, into a hallucinogenic nightmare as the Master (from the Doctor's own subconscious) taunts him and encourages him to die, before bright colours blast the screen and the "new" Doctor bursts back to life. Ten-to-eleven was just identical to the nine-to-ten, Jacoby-Simm (Master) and ten-to-ten (red-herring) regenerations we've seen in the revived series. Yawn. Granted, though, it was genuinely heartbreaking to see the Doctor face the change frightened and alone.

Finally: the new guy. To be honest, I have no idea what he will be like. He seemed to be doing a semi-Tennant impression when he revived, so it's difficult to judge how he will really take the role on. The Doctor's new personality traditionally takes one full episode, or thereabouts, to fully take shape (both due to the effects of the regeneration and the actor cutting a niche for himself). From what I saw, he can at least carry the role in a basic fashion, but whether or not he will be a bit annoying (as he initially seemed) remains to be seen. Looking back, I have to admit I "knew" I was going to dislike Tennant after his first appearance, but he gradually became one of my favourite Doctors.

So, we'll see. :)


You know, i noticed alot of that aswell.. things that were never clearly explained but as a im a relatively new dr who fan who never watched the older series i put it down to things which were a nod to the older generation of fans.

Just touching on the master again (im a huge fan and could talk about the master alone for hours, ask brett he normally gets it on msn :lol:) i would of liked a little bit more explanaition as to what exactly happened to him, i understand that his lifeforce is draining and the timelords somehow implanted the rythm in his head but a little more backstory would of been nice, i mean simm somehow seems even more mentally unstable than last of the timelords, which you could argue is due to the botched resurection but maybe not.

Also speaking of regeneration, i think the regenerations are different but very subtle differences for example, the last regeneration from 9th - 10th doctor didnt set the tardis on fire lol, the regerneration from 10th - 11th doctor seemed alot more intense and painful. Did you see the master's regeneration in utopia when he went from jacobi to simm, it was really really strange and eerie, very different from the doctors regenerations which i suppose was supposed to be some hint that there's something wrong with the master?

[BillyRay]

Loved it. I'm gonna miss Davies & Tennant, but I'm looking forward to where Moffett & Smith take the show from here.

(I had a more- long winded post in mind, but my coffee just didn't take this morning.)

Best line by far:

"I don't want to go..."