HD-DVD Rides again

[DjfunkmasterG]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/11/hd-dvd-rides-again-tcl-brings-china-blue-hd-and-blu-ray-together/

[Danny]

why? blu-rays have a higher storage capacity and data transfer rate and do not require there players to be connected to a network for firmware update. hd-dvd's need players that require multiple sound specs and not just the dolby digital, whereas they are only optional extras for blu-ray. Blu-rays biggest problem is they are more expensive to produce and hd dvd players are technically more similar to dvd and cheaper to mass produce. honestly i dont see this fascination with HD-DVD. out of the two it was the technically inferior product. not by much really, but this fanatical zeal seems a bit misplaced dont you think? its like a guy hoarding laserdiscs because they think cd's are going nowhere a year after laserdiscs stopped being made. Not trolling here, but the wars over soldier, you can take a rest. blu-ray won. :lol:


Though now that i think about it why DO you seem so adamant to have two formats on the market?, i remember back when they were both out and it fucking sucked that you could not get certain movies because you did not have the right disc playing device. there movies, not videogames, i dont want to have to buy multiple players just so i could see iron man and 30 days of night or something. before any sort fo brand loyalty you need to think of the general ramifications of it. this is not meant to be a brand, just the hd replacement of the dvd format. nobody wants to go through only being able to watch 'some' of the movies they like and not others because they picked the wrong horse.

[DjfunkmasterG]

hellsing, you have it all backwards...

Everything you mentioned was Blu-Rays issue. When HD DVD tanked it was fully up to spec, whereas Blu-Ray even 3 years into its release is yet to finish on final spec.

HD DVD was the stronger format, and had it continued the newest resin would have handled 100gb of data per disc compared to Blu's 50gb.

HD DVD could do everything Blu-Ray could and more, and did not require an internet connection to be updated, Blu-Ray doesn't actually require it either, you can just order firmware update discs, but in comparison... HD DVD was finalized and working without issue while Blu-Ray has yet to even perfect profile 2.0

[Danny]

if thats all correct then why, in your opinion, arent they made anymore then? they where the cheaper of the two to make, i could probably google why but its been a while since anybody actually talked about media formats in the media section.:D

[DjfunkmasterG]

HDDVD was set to be the format winner, it was going to be announced that Warner Brothers who was format neutral would be switching to HD DVD exclusive. The announcement was set for the Jan 4 2008 CES show, Toshiba had a major booth set up and everything was in place, then Sony entered the room with an option WB couldn't turn down... $500,000,000 worth of options regarding Blu-Ray, WB did an about face and at the last minute informed Toshiba of their switch to Blu-Ray.

The big announcement set to take place was canceled, leaving everyone scratching their heads, and then the second bomb went off when Paramount jumped ship.

WB is the worlds largest studio and when they switch to a format everyone usually follows suit. Feb 2008 Toshiba ends HD DVD program because now they had only 2 exclusive studios, Weinstein and Universal, neither of which had enough clout to carry the format.

2010, HD DVD is starting to slowly resurrect, but no new discs are announced. As of right now Deadlands 2 on HD DVD is the last titled ever sanctioned and released on the format.

[LouCipherr]

Bottom line is: HD-DVD isn't available anymore because $.ony greased the pockets of the movie companies/distributors, plain and simple.

...and probably 'cause they were still butt-hurt that Betamax never won the video tape format war. I'm sure they never got over that.

Y'know what's interesting about all this: So during the video tape wars, we had VHS and Betamax as the two opposing formats. Betamax was the superior format, brought in by $.ony and lost. Then, HD-DVD & BluGay come around.. Sony, this time, doesn't have the superior product, but wins anyway. Interesting how that turned out, eh? Guess they were determined to win this time.

Dj, I don't think "HD-DVD Rides Again" is the appropriate title for this. Perhaps "HD-DVD once again supported on ONE new player that will also do BluGay" would be more appropriate. It's not like it's "coming back" - there's never going to be more titles released for the format (i'll eat my toolbox if it does - other than DL2) so "rides again"? nah. "supported again in one player" maybe, yeah. ;)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Actually CBHD is HD DVD, just uses a different file structure, but decode the structure and make it UDF 2.5 and you have HD DVD

The disc resin is the same, the players the same the laser wavelength the same.... Only difference... file structure.

However, I don't think we have heard the last of HD DVD by a long shot. I have a feeling HD DVD will come back from obscurity. Believe it or not new resins are still under development.

Anytime a product is still under development usually is a sign that it will make a come back, and remember Micro$oft didn't leave the HD DVD forum, I have a feeling HD DVD will be implemented into gaming technology. Console games are getting brutal in size and right now regular DVD doesn't cut for every game, but up it to dual capacity of HD DVD (30gb) and you can get a ton of data on a disc and the games could look outstanding.

[LouCipherr]

Actually CBHD is HD DVD, just uses a different file structure, but decode the structure and make it UDF 2.5 and you have HD DVD

The disc resin is the same, the players the same the laser wavelength the same.... Only difference... file structure.


Which means they're different. :lol:

I doubt VERY seriously that HD-DVD is going to make any kind of attempt to come back onto the market. When Toshiba threw in the towel to $.ony, it was over, finished, gone, done, and out. Like I said, i'll eat my toolbox if that ever happens.

At this point, the way downloadable gaming content is available, along with streaming and things of that nature, that little plastic "disc" you hold in your hand is becoming more and more irrevevant. Maybe not today, maybe not this year, but sooner or later, everythinig will be delievered as downloadable or streaming content (yes, even HD - give it time). The days of the "storage disc" (for gaming at least - "Steam" anyone? and movies soon too) is going by the wayside. Hell dude, even computers are going the same way - sooner or later, everything is going to be in the "cloud" - even google has a web-based operating system in the works. "Windows" will cease to exist (as well as Mac OS too) soon enough. Matter of fact, there is rumblings that Win7 or possibly the OS that follows Win7 will be the last desktop OS before everything goes into the 'cloud'

[bassman]

At this point, the way downloadable gaming content is available, along with streaming and things of that nature, that little plastic "disc" you hold in your hand is becoming more and more irrevevant. Maybe not today, maybe not this year, but sooner or later, everythinig will be delievered as downloadable or streaming content (yes, even HD - give it time). The days of the "storage disc" (for gaming at least - "Steam" anyone? and movies soon too) is going by the wayside.

I doubt that. Yes, downloads will be available for just about everything, but I really can't see them taking away the ownership of films on an actual hard copy. There's something all together special about owning the film on disc and having it in your hands. Too many people collect them and they won't be able to have download only.

Besides....if they go download only it will only make pirating stronger and hurt their sales. They get more moola out of the discs than they do downloads.

[blind2d]

Remember when DVD was new? Ah... the good ole' days... around about the turn of the century. Almost everything after that terrorist attack... things don't seem to have been as good. Technology-wise, I don't get the big deal behind either of these guys, so... I just ignore them and hope they go away... like Mormons.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Remember when DVD was new? Ah... the good ole' days... around about the turn of the century. Almost everything after that terrorist attack... things don't seem to have been as good. Technology-wise, I don't get the big deal behind either of these guys, so... I just ignore them and hope they go away... like Mormons.


I don't think Blu-Ray is going to go away any time soon. Face the inevitable, just as you will have to go WS on your TV, your going to have to go Blu-Ray too

[blind2d]

Future's so bright.... I gotta wear shades.

[krakenslayer]

I don't think Blu-Ray is going to go away any time soon. Face the inevitable, just as you will have to go WS on your TV, your going to have to go Blu-Ray too

I dunno man, I'm with Blind. These days I watch all my movies on my PC's 20" 4:3 LCD monitor. My buddy has a 40-odd inch WS plasma screen with surround sound and, other than it being BIGGER, I don't think the size or shape of the screen really affects my enjoyment all that much. I can live with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen and I can live with sitting only a few feet from the screen. I don't really buy into the whole total-immersion home cinema schtick. I accept that most people are different though.

Money's tight at the moment for me and even if it wasn't I couldn't really justify spending hundreds on a monitor for all the difference it would make to me. I could by a Blu-Ray player pretty cheap for my PC, but what's the point: on my monitor, I'm barely gonna notice any difference between the two formats.

Bottom line: If DVD goes obsolete I'm gonna switch to downloading movies only, legally or otherwise.

[LouCipherr]

I can't reply to this without getting very wordy - my apologies in advance for the long post. :(

Bassman - you have some very valid points, but as an example of my viewpoint, take a look at itunes sales vs. sales of physical cd's. iTunes is catching up to phsyical CD sales quickly and CD sales are quickly going down the drain. Sooner or later, iTunes (and other music downloading outlets like Amazon) are going to surpass phsysical CD sales - when these music companies see that happening, where do you think they'll concentrate their efforts on? A physical CD (which costs them more than just encoding a song digitally, which cuts into their profits) or the minimal - if any cost - to put them into mp3 or even a lossless format for download? I think more $ can be made if it goes all digital. There's almost no cost involved in making an mp3 versus making a physical disc.

Steam is a prime example of gaming and downloads - you can pay for & download a full game directly from Steam and go play it - no need for a physical cd, and believe it or not, Steam is pulling some really good numbers which are increasing each year. I could care less if I had the CD or DVD case for Unreal Tournament or Quake - as long as I have a digital copy I own and can install whenever or wherever I want, I'm happy (this brings up the DRM aspect, which is a whole other conversation, but I'll leave it alone for now but it has to be said: DRM does kill sales - Spore is a prime example).

Bottom line is, if people get used to no physical medium in one aspect, they're more likely to adpot the same policy for other mediums...eventually.

As far as making things available for download increasing piracy and decreasing sales - that has already been proven to not be true for the most part (there are always exceptions to the rule, but they're rare). Here's why I say that: almost every movie made is already available for free (illegal) downloading if you know where to look, but movies (even digital copies) still sell - and sell well. Sure, sales are down at the moment, but the industry is trying to figure out this digital-world mess they're in and are slow-moving to adopt new ways of doing business (ie: selling movies & music in digital formats).

While the piracy of that item might go up when made available for free, sales will also go up when people are given easier accessibility to the product. Ask Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails. Radiohead made a lot of money allowing their last CD to be downloaded for free from their website. They just asked people make a 'donation' for downloading it if they wanted to (the downloader was left with the choice to do so or not). Apparently, they made more $ doing that then they ever did being on a major or indie label - and it wasn't even their best selling album.

I just see things moving more towards "instant access" and "immediate gratification." People nowadays want stuff and they want it NOW - they don't want to leave their couch to go to the store to buy stuff. *I* am a prime example of that! I haven't done any xmas shopping in a phsyical store for over 5 years now, I do it all online. I'm not sure what that says about me, but I know many people do the same thing I do. Convienence (and laziness) is king in this day and age.

I seriously hope I'm wrong about all this, but based on my observations, this is where I see it going.

I want my records back. Screw CD's and DVD's! BRING BACK THE LP! :lol:

[bassman]

Good points all around, lou.

I'm one of those people that collect dvds to thoroughly enjoy the features, packaging, presentation, etc,.....so I don't really want them to go away. There are some DVDs I own(mainly box sets) that I can never see myself parting with.:p


And I'm right there with you on the Christmas shopping thing. I did it all online this year and it was pure bliss!:lol:

[LouCipherr]

Oh, I'm right there with you bassman. I love having something physical in my hand. Reading the liner notes of a CD (or in my younger years, reading them off the sleeve of an LP - am I dating myself here?!) while listening to it are one of my favorite things to do. I couldn't imagine all of my movies being on a hard drive as opposed to being in a case I can hold in my hands - but, if things continue the way they are, I can see everything going streaming and/or downloading.

Y'know, one nice thing I've noticed about iTunes & Amazon is, now when you buy an album digitally some bands offer pdf files of what would've been the cd's liner notes. Matter of fact, when I bought Chickenfoot's new CD, I was shocked to find the liner notes were included and were pretty awesome - they had built in hyperlinks, hidden downloadable content within the pdf, links to behind the scenes videos, etc. A big step up from "just download these 10 songs and like it" Reading those liner notes helped me get more into the band I was listening to, and I would sorely miss the opportunity to do so in the future.

Yeah, the xmas shopping online thing has been sooo awesome for me the past few years. I HATE going to crowded malls and dealing with those inconsiderate buggers, so now I avoid it all together.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I only bought one item in the store this past xmas, just one. Everything else was done ONLINE. I am fat lazy and don't like dealing with the majority of the general public. Mostly because the people where I live tend be pompous arrogant pricks, and since I consider myself the KING prick I refuse to deal with other *so called, self proclaimed Prick Kings*

Basically I have lost my patience with people, and if I can hop on AMAZON, WOOT, CLICK ME GET ME BUY ME what ever dot COM and have it shipped for free or a small fee, I am all over that stuff.

In regards to owning physical discs, DVD's disc, or I should sau blu-rays are pretty much what I want, fuck CD's I can download the song, throwit on my ipod and be done, but Movies become a talking point for me, they make a great conversation piece when n the company of other filmmakers or people who enjoy films. When the physical disc for movies goes away, it will be a sad day for me.

[Danny]

the talk of dlc versus hard copies makes me think of books. now i have a massive book collection, theres nothing like opening a large tome with the smells of the musty paper and enjoying a good story. but then were seeing downloads for kindles and such becoming more popular and the thing is it is arguably the better choice, you can make multiple copies so you never forget the book your reading anywhere, you cant damage them in any way, and most importantly they dont pysichally exist, so no trees are cut down to make the paper for them. but still i choose paper and print. i feel bad about doing so but then i dont think its gonna be around for the rest of my lifetime. im pretty sure newspapers will be gone by the time im 40.

[MinionZombie]

Plus with books it's nice to look at something which isn't a fuckin' screen - why does everything have to be on a screen, or come with a screen these days?

I seriously doubt physical discs or cds will ever go away, or at least not for an exceptionally long time. It's just retarded. While downloading, when provided properly for the masses, will of course increase greatly, and physical media sales will drop as a result, that'll still mean an utter shedload of physical media is still being bought and sold.

Books should be on paper too. Fuck that stupid palm pilot book idea thing that came out recently.

[LouCipherr]

Good call, hellsing - the kindle is anothe prime example of moving away from a 'physical' medium to a electronic (or "virtual") one. I completely forgot about that thing. :D

MZ - It'll be just like today - there are still people buying LP's/records (even though the format was long considered 'dead') - the same will happen with cd's and dvd's - they might still be available (on a much smaller scale) physically in a store, but it'll be a 'niche' thing just like records are now. Only a select group of people will collect them, the rest of the masses will be downloading.

Sorry everyone, I kinda threadjacked this topic on accident. :lol: Old habits die hard I guess.

[Danny]

Plus with books it's nice to look at something which isn't a fuckin' screen - why does everything have to be on a screen, or come with a screen these days?

I seriously doubt physical discs or cds will ever go away, or at least not for an exceptionally long time. It's just retarded. While downloading, when provided properly for the masses, will of course increase greatly, and physical media sales will drop as a result, that'll still mean an utter shedload of physical media is still being bought and sold.

Books should be on paper too. Fuck that stupid palm pilot book idea thing that came out recently.

i imagine some sort of memory stick might seem like a sort fo replacement, but honestly all i can see is digital downloads in like 30 years time. i can imagine some sort of media centre, no doubt by apple or sony that combines a family tv, pc and general web browsing meets home theatre into some big minority report type interface, only with more gradient blends in the colour scheme.:lol:

[MinionZombie]

I duno if physical DVDs and CDs would be as niche as vinyl though. Although in some circles vinyl is alive and kicking.

Interestingly, there was a new horror film which sent out promo copies to reviewers - on VHS - in a proper 80s style box with matching cover art. The House of the Devil, or something like that ... saw it on Bloody Disgusting, I think.

[Danny]

Good call, hellsing - the kindle is anothe prime example of moving away from a 'physical' medium to a electronic (or "virtual") one. I completely forgot about that thing. :D

MZ - It'll be just like today - there are still people buying LP's/records (even though the format was long considered 'dead') - the same will happen with cd's and dvd's - they might still be available (on a much smaller scale) physically in a store, but it'll be a 'niche' thing just like records are now. Only a select group of people will collect them, the rest of the masses will be downloading.

Sorry everyone, I kinda threadjacked this topic on accident. :lol: Old habits die hard I guess.

yeah but lps arent the same as hd dvds, djs use them, audiophiles crave them and you can buy one that was never reprinted in any format and convert it to an mp3 with the right device. never got into them myself, though i got a free lp of HIM's "and love said no"s first printing as a gift, never listened to it though.