Religion/Occultism/Mysticism, etc.

[Jeffery]

I'm a LaVeyan Satanist & have been ever since I realized after reading the Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey I was a born Satanist & lived the philosophy long before ever picking up any of his work. To give a brief synopsis on what LaVeyan (Modern) Satanism is...

LaVeyan Satanism was founded in 1966 by Anton LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality, drawing influences from the rituals and ceremonies of occultist Aleister Crowley, and the philosophies of Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand. Employing Crowley's terminology, its adherents define Satanism as a "Left-Hand Path" religion and philosophy, rejecting traditional "Right-Hand Path" religions such as Christianity for their perceived denial of life and emphasis on guilt and abstinence. Unlike Theistic Satanism, LaVeyan Satanism does not involve worship of any deity, but rather uses "Satan" as a symbol of carnality and earthly values, of man's inherent nature.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

Growing up I took a stance & was very anti-drug, very right-wing, but loved metal, horror, the macabre, the taboo & unconventional side of life. I was an outcast from the start! I was always interested in the occult & Left-Hand Path so-to-speak. I prided myself on intelligence, when most my age didn't give a shit. I was the kid who listened to Black Metal & loved splatter/gore flicks, but would never smoke a joint & couldn't wait to vote a Republican into office. When I was about 14/15 I finally got my hands on Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible. When reading it, it felt like I was looking into a mirror. This was it! This was how I had been living all of my life, I just had no idea there was an actual philosophy/religion based on it! From that moment on I had declared myself a LaVeyan Satanist.

I enjoy reading on magic/magick too, along with rites & rituals from other Left-Hand Path religions & the works of Aleister Crowley too, even though I find the man's actions deplorable. A lot of what he stood for, I stand for myself, though not the Anarchist, self-destructive bullshit he preached, even though he didn't see it this way. I like to think one can find something in almost every religion to benefit one's life. However, I feel religion can also be something very destructive too, if one allows it to be. I personally don't buy into actual magic/magick, I believe in mind over matter & making shit happen for yourself, but find it extremely interesting to read about.

Feel free to share your thoughts on this, or your own on your own personal religion/philosophy, etc. I'm sure I'll find a lot here who are merely atheist/agnostic. That's fine! What works for one person doesn't always work for the next. I myself am an atheist too, I just find life to be filled with wonderful things to indulge in, so long as it's not self-destructive, because self-preservation is the highest law!

[krakenslayer]

LaVeyan Satanism = Neitzche for dummies :p :D

EDIT: Hope I didn't offend you with that. I didn't mean it that way. It's just that I read the Satanic Bible some years ago and it was JUST like reading Neitztche with added spells :D

[Mike70]

i have zero belief in religion, the occult, mysticism, or spiritualism of any kind.

logic, reason and the physical sciences, particularly the math based sciences of physics, chemistry, and astronomy, tell us all we need to know about how the world works. i see no reason to engage in wishful thinking and imaginary friends.

mathematics has one tremendous advantage over any religious or occult practice - it shows us what unassailable truth really is and the truths that it reveals apply to everyone, no matter what their personal "belief system" is.

2+2=4. the square root of 16 is 4. things fall toward the center of the earth at the rate of 9.78 meters per second/per second. these things are provable truth. religion cannot offer anything close to this certainty.

[Kaos]

So what do you think about the Temple of Set, Jeff?

[Jeffery]

So what do you think about the Temple of Set, Jeff?

The fact that they claim be the world's leading left-hand path religious organization is complete & utter nonesense.

[Kaos]

They do seem a bit more organized than the other splinter fragments of the CoS. But you are right in that how would you measure that specific claim? Welcome to the board. :)

[Jeffery]

They do seem a bit more organized than the other splinter fragments of the CoS. But you are right in that how would you measure that specific claim? Welcome to the board. :)

Indeed. I actually don't belong to the CoS. I don't really find a need to join. I just apply the philosophy because, well I pretty much already was long before reading the Satanic Bible.

[JDFP]

All individuals adopt some form of faith in something... the Christian, the Atheist, the Agnostic... Capitalism and Communism are as much of a faith as Christianity and Buddhism. The difference is that one is based upon the notion of Supreme faith within God and the other Supreme faith within the Man. The atheistic scientist worships at the feet of men like Einstein and Tesla, the Christian at the prophesies of Peter, Paul, and the Buddhist the Bodhisattvas.

As for me, in less than 100 years the religions of man, Communism mostly, and Capitalism to a degree, have managed to murder and destroy more cultures and people (at least 100 million within Communism) than in all the history of the world combined within the religions of God. You may see God in one way, and I see God in another, or some of us following a man-made faith not at all, but personally I'll stick with putting my faith in God over man any day of the week. But, that's just me.

j.p.

[strayrider]

The atheistic scientist worships at the feet of men like Einstein and Tesla...I'll stick with putting my faith in God over man any day of the week.

My wife's ex-father-in-law was a nuclear physicist who worked for Fermilab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermilab. While he was still living (and she was still married his son) he shared with her his thoughts on God. One of his personal insights was that "When science fails, God will not."

To Jeffery:

The 9 Satanic Statements:

# LaVeyan Satanist represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires (Liberals)!

I would call these Conservative values. (I guess I'm (partially) a Satanist :lol:).

:D

-stray-

[SymphonicX]

I've read the Satanic Bible...and I don't want to offend those who find meaning in it. But all I could see is it lets you be a complete c**t to everyone who annoys you. Hardly making the world a better place.

And self indulgent belief systems just add to it. Sorry, not for me.

[Ghost Of War]

I have The Satanic Bible, and have read it maybe 3 times, and while I wouldn't consider myself to be a LaVeyan Satanist, I do find some of the philosophies in the book fascinating, and agree with many of them. I don't believe in any god whatsoever, in fact I find religion quite repulsive, but I do believe that there's another plain of consciousness that we "ascend" to eventually when the body dies, and I don't mean that in a spiritual way. I find things like this hard to express in words sometimes.

[Jeffery]

I've read the Satanic Bible...and I don't want to offend those who find meaning in it. But all I could see is it lets you be a complete c**t to everyone who annoys you. Hardly making the world a better place.

And self indulgent belief systems just add to it. Sorry, not for me.

No offense but if this is what you've gathered from it, you obviously aren't reading it for what it is & didn't pay much attention to its text. If people are kind/respectful to you, you should reciprocate. If someone is cruel to you & harms you in any way shape or form, you have the right to defend yourself & not turn the other cheek. This is mans natural/animalistic instinct/nature. If you feel like turning the other cheek & treating people only how you wish to be treated, be my guest. I for one prefer enjoying life & standing up for myself & not allowing others to impact my life in a negative way.

What's wrong with indulging? It's good for the psyche & body. You obviously missed the part about self-preservation being the highest law & not allowing any indulgent act to become compulsive, because that is self-destructive behavior. At times the Satanic Bible is tongue-in-cheek. It's laced with wit & sarcasm at times too. It was not intended for everyone, nor is the philosophy. It's a religion for the elite & those who want to get the most out of life.

---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------


My wife's ex-father-in-law was a nuclear physicist who worked for Fermilab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermilab. While he was still living (and she was still married his son) he shared with her his thoughts on God. One of his personal insights was that "When science fails, God will not."

To Jeffery:

The 9 Satanic Statements:

# LaVeyan Satanist represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
# LaVeyan Satanist represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires (Liberals)!

I would call these Conservative values. (I guess I'm (partially) a Satanist :lol:).

:D

-stray-

Like LaVey (as he states in the book Satan Speaks!), myself & many other members of the CoS, abortion is something else the philosophy/religion frowns upon & find deplorable. Again, responsibility to the responsible. I think most people would be shocked how many conservative values can be found within this specific religion.

[krakenslayer]

All individuals adopt some form of faith in something... the Christian, the Atheist, the Agnostic... Capitalism and Communism are as much of a faith as Christianity and Buddhism. The difference is that one is based upon the notion of Supreme faith within God and the other Supreme faith within the Man. The atheistic scientist worships at the feet of men like Einstein and Tesla, the Christian at the prophesies of Peter, Paul, and the Buddhist the Bodhisattvas.

j.p.

I would disagree somewhat with that. Scientists don't really worship Einstein, etc, although popular science in the media can sometimes give that impression. Science does not refer to a faith, or even an agreed-upon body of knowledge, it is simply a method of inquiry. Science is basically about taking ideas (your own or others) and testing their accuracy by trying hard to prove them wrong - if it holds out, it's more likely to be correct. Science never assumes 100% certainly even when something has been "proven". Although scientists may make assumptions from time to time in order to open up a new line of inquiry, a good scientist would always highlight these limitations in their paper and urge caution regarding their conclusions because of this and their theories may not be fully accepted until further investigation is done. Scientists who prove their own theories wrong are still well-respected in the scientific community, for adding to knowledge by highlighting a possibly erroneous idea.

Science isn't really a faith, it's just a method of inquiry that uses doubt to sort the wheat from the chaff

I do agree with your overall point here though, apart from the science comment, but I would use the word philosophy rather than religion, but that's just semantics.

[Kaos]

I think most people would be shocked how many conservative values can be found within this specific religion.

I think most people would be shocked at the number of police and military personnel who are members of Satanist orgs let alone those who just follow the practice.

[SymphonicX]

No offense but if this is what you've gathered from it, you obviously aren't reading it for what it is & didn't pay much attention to its text. If people are kind/respectful to you, you should reciprocate. If someone is cruel to you & harms you in any way shape or form, you have the right to defend yourself & not turn the other cheek. This is mans natural/animalistic instinct/nature. If you feel like turning the other cheek & treating people only how you wish to be treated, be my guest. I for one prefer enjoying life & standing up for myself & not allowing others to impact my life in a negative way.

What's wrong with indulging? It's good for the psyche & body. You obviously missed the part about self-preservation being the highest law & not allowing any indulgent act to become compulsive, because that is self-destructive behavior. At times the Satanic Bible is tongue-in-cheek. It's laced with wit & sarcasm at times too. It was not intended for everyone, nor is the philosophy. It's a religion for the elite & those who want to get the most out of life.



---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------



Like LaVey (as he states in the book Satan Speaks!), myself & many other members of the CoS, abortion is something else the philosophy/religion frowns upon & find deplorable. Again, responsibility to the responsible. I think most people would be shocked how many conservative values can be found within this specific religion.

Hey there Jeffery, thanks for your reply. And don't worry I rarely take offense to posts on a webboard :)

I did read the text, admittedly I was 18 at the time - a decade later things have definitely changed in my life and of course my memory of the book has faded somewhat - however you've jogged certain memories in me and one of them was the line "if you're struck on the cheek, smite them in the face"...or something like that.

It is deeply within my beliefs that this very notion of all things makes the Satanic bible a very destructive and selfish mantra to follow.
Let's pretend we all live in a world full of self indulgent, spiteful people who aren't afraid to "smite the other cheek" and come back at people with full, harsh force just because they believe it's their right to do so. How much better is the world then? Surely, we've learnt to lead by example? And what example is set to people on the basis of that? Of course it's not always the correct thing to turn the other cheek - but "evil begets evil" - and simply believing that a vengeful thought process will get you out of trouble is unfortunately erroneous, I believe.

This belief system is anti-human in every sense. It's not progressive or helpful or unifying to our species. It's a survival of the fittest idealogy that falls short of proclaiming that we should just kill each other to save the bother of having to deal with ourselves.

Also, you don't actually help this with the statement that it's a religion "for the elite" - if this is how the elite feels about each other, then excuse me while I step outside with the peasants.

Another thing that's stuck in my mind is this statement:

"If you feel like turning the other cheek & treating people only how you wish to be treated, be my guest. I for one prefer enjoying life & standing up for myself & not allowing others to impact my life in a negative way."

This very statement tells me you consider a caring attitude one to be of lesser value than your own right to enjoy yourself - it avoids completely the very well taught lesson in life that you get out what you put back in, and if your focus is simply to indulge and enjoy yourself (at other's expense?), you've just added another layer of shit to the layercake.

For instance I don't consider myself to be any of the things that the Satanic bible propogates because I'll always attempt some form of altruistic response to people. If someone at work for instance, has seen fit to cause trouble for my working life, I'll take them out to lunch and have a friendly get-to-know-you session (at my expense) and will in the future reap the rewards that their loyalty and support gives from such a gesture. This always works. It's much more rewarding to turn the other cheek and work progressively with people than it's ever going to be smiting them back in the face with an equally childish response.

I do remember the SB being quite rife with funny moments and it was well written - but it was written by a bitter, dejected old man who saw the world through twisted eyes.

As for conservative values, I put myself so far away from those notions of being that it really isn't worth me commenting on - so to have the SB marry up to a belief system that I absolutely despise only strengthens the fact that this "survival of the fittest" idealogy has completely departed from the fact that we are the ONLY species on this planet with the foresight to look outside ourselves and realise the cause and effect of our actions in the long term. With this ability I believe we can all strive for a peaceful and loving species however, with things like conservatism and the satanic bible beating their drums, I fear we'll always be stuck in a selfish, "grass is greener" mentality.

Thanks for reading, I hope too that I didn't offend you!!!
Cheers, take care
T

[Jeffery]

Hey there Jeffery, thanks for your reply. And don't worry I rarely take offense to posts on a webboard :)

Excellent, same here.


I did read the text, admittedly I was 18 at the time - a decade later things have definitely changed in my life and of course my memory of the book has faded somewhat - however you've jogged certain memories in me and one of them was the line "if you're struck on the cheek, smite them in the face"...or something like that.

Yes, this being a personal favorite of mine & what I teach my lady's two boys too, obviously she too agrees with this philosophy. We've taught them not to look for trouble, but not to run/turn the other cheek too. To be a survivalist & treat others with respect off the bat, but never to let your guard down in the process too.



It is deeply within my beliefs that this very notion of all things makes the Satanic bible a very destructive and selfish mantra to follow.
Let's pretend we all live in a world full of self indulgent, spiteful people who aren't afraid to "smite the other cheek" and come back at people with full, harsh force just because they believe it's their right to do so. How much better is the world then? Surely, we've learnt to lead by example? And what example is set to people on the basis of that? Of course it's not always the correct thing to turn the other cheek - but "evil begets evil" - and simply believing that a vengeful thought process will get you out of trouble is unfortunately erroneous, I believe.

I believe humans are no different than animals in the sense of our instincts, etc. Obviously I feel that our lives are more meaningful, but that's an entirely different debate. I feel that if certain laws were more strict in our society, people weren't afraid of reciprocating the way in which they're treated we'd have a better society. The reason a lot of people tend to do wrong towards others is they feel there will be no repercussions for their actions. It's not natural to turn the other cheek & leads to a very self-destructive lifestyle. You may feel as if you're about to explode on the inside, but you never let the person who has wronged you know of this, then you're doing yourself harm & it's an injustice to oneself. LaVeyan Satanism is a very selfish religion. If this isn't you, then it's completely understandable. I don't feel one can become a Satanist, I feel you're born a Satanist. If you're one who doesn't like confrontation & you're one who lets others get away with wronging you, then this isn't the religion for you. I on the other hand was raised that if someone hits you, hit them harder. Never back down & always stand up for your convictions. I never go looking for trouble & in most cases I'm just a sarcastic asshole (verbally) to those who feel it necessary to bad mouth me or become passive aggressive. I rarely see it fit/suitable to fight. However, if it's me or someone else, it's going to be them every time, if I can help it.


This belief system is anti-human in every sense. It's not progressive or helpful or unifying to our species. It's a survival of the fittest idealogy that falls short of proclaiming that we should just kill each other to save the bother of having to deal with ourselves.

Anti-human? I don't think so. Anti-Humanism? Yes! I'm not a humanist. In fact I despise most I come into contact with on a daily basis as it is. Also, letting others walk all over you, without fear of consequences is not progressive either, for your well being that is.


Also, you don't actually help this with the statement that it's a religion "for the elite" - if this is how the elite feels about each other, then excuse me while I step outside with the peasants.

Here we will agree to disagree. The weak shall inherit the yoke & the strong shall inherit the earth. Survival of the fittest.


Another thing that's stuck in my mind is this statement:

"If you feel like turning the other cheek & treating people only how you wish to be treated, be my guest. I for one prefer enjoying life & standing up for myself & not allowing others to impact my life in a negative way."

This very statement tells me you consider a caring attitude one to be of lesser value than your own right to enjoy yourself - it avoids completely the very well taught lesson in life that you get out what you put back in, and if your focus is simply to indulge and enjoy yourself (at other's expense?), you've just added another layer of shit to the layercake.

I love/care about very few people in this world. HOWEVER, to those I do care about I give them my all. Love seems to have been spread so thin it's a worthless vanier. I feel love should be given to those who deserve it & not wasted on ingrates, as I've stated previously.


For instance I don't consider myself to be any of the things that the Satanic bible propogates because I'll always attempt some form of altruistic response to people. If someone at work for instance, has seen fit to cause trouble for my working life, I'll take them out to lunch and have a friendly get-to-know-you session (at my expense) and will in the future reap the rewards that their loyalty and support gives from such a gesture. This always works. It's much more rewarding to turn the other cheek and work progressively with people than it's ever going to be smiting them back in the face with an equally childish response.

See, I don't consider this to be the better person mentality. In actuality you're kind of being a bit condescending to the individual by doing this in my opinion. If someone sees fit to screw me over, be it at work, or in every day life I will wash my hands with them. I don't believe in doing anything illegal to 'said' individual, by any means. But at times there are certain ways of getting back at a person for wronging you in either the same sense or with a little added spice to it & in some cases the best thing to do is wash your hands completely with this person. If someone knowingly wrongs me & does so out of spite, I have no use for scum like this.


I do remember the SB being quite rife with funny moments and it was well written - but it was written by a bitter, dejected old man who saw the world through twisted eyes.

Bitter? You're damn right. Old? No, he wrote the Satanic Bible when he was thirty-nine years old. If you want bitter old man, check out Satan Speaks! A great read & a bit easier of a read than that of the Satanic Bible. They're merely short essays about various topics.


As for conservative values, I put myself so far away from those notions of being that it really isn't worth me commenting on - so to have the SB marry up to a belief system that I absolutely despise only strengthens the fact that this "survival of the fittest" idealogy has completely departed from the fact that we are the ONLY species on this planet with the foresight to look outside ourselves and realise the cause and effect of our actions in the long term. With this ability I believe we can all strive for a peaceful and loving species however, with things like conservatism and the satanic bible beating their drums, I fear we'll always be stuck in a selfish, "grass is greener" mentality.

World peace will never happen, no matter how much one might want this. This mentality to me is a bit delusional & that of pipe dreams. I am a realist & I prefer living in that mindset. However, this is merely my opinion.


Thanks for reading, I hope too that I didn't offend you!!!
Cheers, take care
T

You're welcome, my pleasure. And no, you did not offend me in the very least.

[SymphonicX]

I think we're world's apart Jeffery! Thanks for your reply though, I enjoyed reading it immensely - I think we've both given our side of things so I'll leave that here, it was definitely worth reading.

[Mike70]

Science isn't really a faith, it's just a method of inquiry that uses doubt to sort the wheat from the chaff


that has been an extremely weak theist argument for eons. i see that you understand, krackers. science and more importantly, math, do not require faith or belief in anything. i try very, very hard not to even use the word "belief" in reference to myself. belief does not by any stretch of the imagination equal reality or truth.

math reveals beautiful and elegant truths about the world that cannot be refuted by anyone or anything. even god, if he existed, would have to bow down before mathematical truth.

[Jeffery]

I think we're world's apart Jeffery! Thanks for your reply though, I enjoyed reading it immensely - I think we've both given our side of things so I'll leave that here, it was definitely worth reading.

Agreed. It's refreshing to debate with someone who has an open-mind & doesn't lace their rebutles with insults & cheap shots.

[Mike70]

Agreed. It's refreshing to debate with someone who has an open-mind & doesn't lace their rebutles with insults & cheap shots.

i think you'll find most people here like that. shit does get out of hand from time to time but mostly discussions here are pretty level.

anyway, everyone knows that professorchaos and i are the only real assholes here.:D

[SymphonicX]

belief does not by any stretch of the imagination equal reality or truth.

.

That's a great quote....my new facebook status...!

[JDFP]

that has been an extremely weak theist argument for eons. i see that you understand, krackers. science and more importantly, math, do not require faith or belief in anything. i try very, very hard not to even use the word "belief" in reference to myself. belief does not by any stretch of the imagination equal reality or truth.

math reveals beautiful and elegant truths about the world that cannot be refuted by anyone or anything. even god, if he existed, would have to bow down before mathematical truth.

Considering God created the mathematical truths, I'd say it's strike that and reverse it, Willy Wonka. :)

I actually profoundly respect what Mike is saying though, as I always enjoy his intelligent insights into everything, even if we are dramatically opposed on a theological matter, and that's okay that we are. I can respect differing opinions.

If we want to talk about what is within theology, than we can, and if we want to talk about what is outside theology, I'll leave that to the experts there. I know my stuff when it comes to Christian Theology (mainly from a Catholic perspective before that pompous German monk named Luther decided to butcher Christianity), but as far as science and the more materialistic realms of knowledge -- I'll leave that to those folks who know it. I'm not so much interested in the material as I am in the sacred in the long run. There is the a priori (sacred) and the a posteriori (materialistic) when it comes to existence...

As far as the misinterpretation of "turning the other cheek" that is mentioned in some above posts here, I'll get to that letter when I have more time -- being that I'm probably one of the few folks here that have a degree in Theology and I know my stuff about it. Alas, I need to go get some food and hang out with a friend for now. :)

By the way, LeVay had a very misguided interpretation of Christianity, one that was not very theologically accurate or sound... more on that later too, I suppose, if people are wanting to discuss it...

j.p.

[SymphonicX]

By the way, LeVay had a very misguided interpretation of Christianity, one that was not very theologically accurate or sound... more on that later too, I suppose, if people are wanting to discuss it...

j.p.

You could probably say that about most Christians too!
I look forward to reading your future post on the subject

[Mike70]

By the way, LeVay had a very misguided interpretation of Christianity, one that was not very theologically accurate or sound... more on that later too, I suppose, if people are wanting to discuss it...

j.p.

i think lavey had a miguided interpretation of just about everything. not to offend anyone but i find satanism to be self-indulgent and self-important to an extreme. it's nothing more than a road map for being an insensitive, materialistic bastard. who are these "strong" people? the people who believe like lavey, of course. his ideas seem to be nothing but tired elitist ideology wrapped up in 4th grade theology with the morality of your average caveman thrown in.



i think we are so far apart on the subject of god that there is no real purpose for discussing religion v. science. there is nothing you can say or do that will convince me of his existence and nothing that i can say or do that will convince you of his non-existence. so, simply agreeing to respect each other's ideas on the subject is the best way to go.

[SymphonicX]

I had a reaffirming experience in God today...

I lost 20p in the vending machine upstairs at work (the lord taketh away)
But I found 45p in the vending machine downstairs at work (the lord giveth back!)

makes perfect sense to me!

[Mike70]

But I found 45p in the vending machine downstairs at work (the lord giveth back!)


with interest:D

[Jeffery]

By the way, LeVay had a very misguided interpretation of Christianity, one that was not very theologically accurate or sound... more on that later too, I suppose, if people are wanting to discuss it....

Enlighten us more on this, please. In a nutshell he found Christianity to be a farce & did not believe in a God, or a Devil.

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------


I think most people would be shocked at the number of police and military personnel who are members of Satanist orgs let alone those who just follow the practice.

Indeed, sir!

[capncnut]

I dip my toes into all without classifying myself as 'a follower of ...'. At first, I was into LaVeyan Satanism, and while it does contain some wonderful teachings, it's all rather 'entry level' for me. I much prefer Crowley's philosophies.

LaVey was a great man though, and I have a rather extensive collection of the man's books and films.


Indeed. I actually don't belong to the CoS. I don't really find a need to join.
Pretty much how I felt. I don't need to make a donation to any group in order to prove, or have officially documented, my beliefs.

Anyway, welcome to the boards, Jeffery. :evil:

Shemhamforash!

[Jeffery]

I dip my toes into all without classifying myself as 'a follower of ...'. At first, I was into LaVeyan Satanism, and while it does contain some wonderful teachings, it's all rather 'entry level' for me. I much prefer Crowley's philosophies.

LaVey was a great man though, and I have a rather extensive collection of the man's books and films.


Pretty much how I felt. I don't need to make a donation to any group in order to prove, or have officially documented, my beliefs.

Anyway, welcome to the boards, Jeffery. :evil:

Shemhamforash!

Appreciated!

Asmodeus!

[Tricky]

What Mike said :) I dont believe in any gods, religions etc. I went to a church of england school till I was 11 & because it was drilled into me from an early age I did believe in it all as a child, but once into my teens & even more so as an adult when I began to experience & learn more about life & the world, I just made my own mind up & I stick to science & evolution. Thats not to say I dont believe in doing good things & even living by some of the christian rules because in their stripped down state they are the basic requirements for a civilised society, but I dont believe it all comes from gods in the clouds & that theres a heaven & a hell & all that other jargon, thats just nonsense to me, I just believe that these rules were thought up to try & tame the savages back in the olden days, and putting a god to it put fear into people which helped them stick to the rules. I dont doubt Jesus existed either, he was probably a man with good morals & a decent storyteller, but thats all, no son of god or miracle working.

All these celebrity religions that have popped up since the latter half of last century make me laugh as well, like madonnas favourite "kabbalah" or that fruitloop "scientology" that the hollywood set all feel they have to be part of, all it proves is how easy it is to make up a religion & to get gullible people to follow it!

[Danny]

What Mike said :) I dont believe in any gods, religions etc. I went to a church of england school till I was 11 & because it was drilled into me from an early age I did believe in it all as a child, but once into my teens & even more so as an adult when I began to experience & learn more about life & the world, I just made my own mind up & I stick to science & evolution. Thats not to say I dont believe in doing good things & even living by some of the christian rules because in their stripped down state they are the basic requirements for a civilised society, but I dont believe it all comes from gods in the clouds & that theres a heaven & a hell & all that other jargon, thats just nonsense to me, I just believe that these rules were thought up to try & tame the savages back in the olden days, and putting a god to it put fear into people which helped them stick to the rules. I dont doubt Jesus existed either, he was probably a man with good morals & a decent storyteller, but thats all, no son of god or miracle working.

All these celebrity religions that have popped up since the latter half of last century make me laugh as well, like madonnas favourite "kabbalah" or that fruitloop "scientology" that the hollywood set all feel they have to be part of, all it proves is how easy it is to make up a religion & to get gullible people to follow it!

i remember at school our headmaster would speak from the bible every assembly in the mornings, and i was always thinking "this is the man in charge of my education and he's talking about magic and beings in the sky watching us, this guys crazy!" and to be honest thats what religion is, i have yet to see any proof of the supernatural, i think its a coping mechanism. the bleak truth that we are random results of chance, biological machines in an ecosystem that live, die and then break down and feed other organisms and so on, is pretty damn depressing to some people. i think religion sprang up as the sort of failsafe to keep people sane. but ive always figured it doesnt matter at all. some people need religion to make them get out of bed in the morning, regardless of which imaginary thing they pray to i see no proof for it. its all fantasy, but luckily ive never grown up being told to believe in something, so why should i care what people believe in? and i truthfully dont. ive got friends who staunchely believe in various religions and ive said "how is any of these miracles you talk of more realistic than something from harry potter?" and we joke and laugh because we know both is absolutely sure that the other is wrong, but it doesnt change what cant change, people are people and believe what they choose, but i always found it odd that the teacher spent every week reading what he believed was word from his god, but never once tried to enforce his belief on anyone else. in that respect he was a standup guy.

he was also a dick of a history teacher.:lol:

[kortick]

I always found that people who claim to
be 'Satanists' but yet do not beleive that
Satan exists to be the ultimate in incongruity.

I know people who actually met Anton LaVey,
and they were not impressed by him at all.
And having read his works I do not think highly of him
or his philopshies which are watered down tenants
of Nietzchian ideas of existentialism and nihilism.

Also having known true Satanists who do beleive in
the being known as Lucifer as a real entity take great offense
at LaVey using the name of Satan to sell books and promote
his ideas.

LaVey is considered a joke in the true occult circles.
He is hardly the first to espouse the values he does,
but is indeed the only one to attribute his 'teachings'
to his version of Satan.

The only way you could be born a Satanist, who doesnt
beleive Satan exists, is if you were deprived oxygen
at birth. I doubt this was the case with you.

As much as you may seem to think, this isnt meant to be
an insult on you. LaVey was good at stealing other peoples
ideas and passing them off as his own.

If his writings give you some benefit or bring anything positive
to your life then I am glad for that.

But you are no means practising occultism or Satanism.
compare LaVeys words to the defintion of existentialism:

'Existentialism stresses that people are entirely free and therefore responsible for what they make of themselves.'

His works and the works of others written long before him
bear too much similarity.

[capncnut]

As much as you may seem to think, this isnt meant to be an insult on you.
I think anyone who has studied LaVey and all forms of satanism in depth couldn't be truly offended by what you have posted, Paul. It was one of the things that pushed me into Crowley, if I'm honest.

But I think Anton threw in enough original wise words in The Satanic Bible to warrant inspection. Also, the book is responsible for empowering and informing a lot of people, turning them away from the sheer inhuman farce that the Christian bible is, so that can only be good right?

[krakenslayer]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD! :D

[Danny]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD! :D

if it makes it to a 4th page without a flame someone may have div'd by zero and we all died and the island is hell and the smoke monster is a cloud of nanites.

[JDFP]

Okie dokie... I've got some time to spare before opening up my twelve pack of Milwaukee's Best, so here goes, since a few folks asked for it...

Warning before you read this folks, these are my personal thoughts/ideas on things, I'm not telling you how to live your life or base your own ideas/beliefs. That's for all people to individually do themselves. I would not intentionally offend anyone here, as I respect all mature people here, but I will be clear in my thoughts...

The notion of "turning the other cheek" doesn't mean: "Hey, if someone screws you over, it's all good, man! Just ignore it and let them keep doing it!". That's childish. And those who argue against Christian ideology on limited understanding of study of the faith and ideas are arguing in a childish arena. To be honest, I can respect Atheists that attack Christianity and religion in general on a mature well-considered basis (Alfred North Whitehead is one of these people). But, when they attack it on interpretations they have of scripture that are not accurate hermeneutic readings into it I just want to vomit. An example would be Bertrand Russell who gave a speech back in the day that became: "Why I Am Not A Christian" -- anyone who has studied theology for a good solid year could rip his reasons apart as being weak, silly, and just pitiful. And this man was a professor at some of the finest colleges/universities in the world! This man ascribed to some amazing mathematical and scientific principles in his life, I respect him for some of his ideas, but when it came to waiving aside Christian ideology it was good enough for him to do it on an elementary and unenlightened level of his false interpretations of it. That's a slap in the face of reasoning.

Anyway, I'm really digressing... I can get into more of that later. I was talking about the whole "Turn the other cheek" thing. What it means is that if someone wrongs you, than you should be willing to forgive the person the indiscretion. It doesn't mean don't defend yourself if someone is literally punching you on the cheek or screwing around with your girlfriend/wife. It means that you must be willing to forgive the individual the transgressions they impose upon you. Turning the other cheek is turning your heart back to the person with a spirit of forgiveness with the person who has wronged you.

The problem with scriptural study, and a great deal of Christianity in general (as I'm sure this is a problem with any other form or religion as well, but I'm not as well versed in them enough to intelligently speak of them) is that people want to read a passage and say: "Oh, this is what that means..." without properly understanding the message, the hermeneutics of the language, the development of said culture within the time period that it happened. Great folly is not the fault of the message, but of the messenger wanting to take his/her own interpretation of it without understanding the nature of it. The greatest threat to religion is not people outside of the faith who do not ascribe to the theology/philosophical grounding of the faith, but those within the faith who want to make their own flawed bases of belief from something that was never intended to be taken in a certain way. This is the crux of what created Protestantism for example. Someone else mentioned that ignorance is the problem, and to a great degree, it is.

As a Catholic myself, and I am only speaking from my perspective myself, I don't have time to concern myself with the ideas of Heaven and Hell, what happens to my soul after I die happens. I don't concern myself with silly little 'really good feelings in my gut' about God and faith and some of that more willy-washy notions of "oh, it's all love!". It's not about love, it's about sacrifice. Christ once stated that he had come to bring a sword upon families, upon all through his actions. The person who says that Christianity is all about love and feeling good about "The big guy with the white-beard and the Charlton Heston booming-voice in the sky and all that fantasy stuff about Heaven" -- that's the person who is ignorant and espousing thoughts on something they don't truly understand. And I'd say the vast majority of these people are Christians that don't even truly understand their own faith, and sometimes of no fault of their own because that was the way they were always taught. This is the arguing of a Theology based upon elementary ideology. If I put Rahner's thoughts out there, don't hit me back with Dr. Seuss ideology. Unfortunately, all too many want to attack (or attempt to defend something on an apologetic level which they should never do unless they've had years of training like I have) with in return. Following the teachings of Christ is about sacrifice. Bonhoeffer said it best: "God bids us come die with Him."

Okay... deep breath... there's more I could say, and may later say, but I'm tired for now...

Must...have...beer... :)

j.p.

[strayrider]

The weak shall inherit the yoke & the strong shall inherit the earth. Survival of the fittest.


..self-indulgent and self-important to an extreme. it's nothing more than a road map for being an insensitive, materialistic bastard. who are these "strong" people?...


http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=414
"Some people pack up on bottled water toilet paper and tins of soup. I stocked up on ammo, guns and items to make explosives. I can justify theft and murder by my own hands in a post apoc world by the simple fact that the government and civilization will have broken down and its now a survival of the fittest. If you think someone like me is going to go hungry while someone hordes their food supplies, you are grossly mistaken I will take what he has whether he wants to give it or not. THAT is how the world will operate under those circumstances. Right, wrong, moral, immoral or not is all up for grabs". (Khardis, Homepage of the Dead, 6-Aug-2008)

Of course!

:evil:

-stray-

[Mike70]

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=414
"Some people pack up on bottled water toilet paper and tins of soup. I stocked up on ammo, guns and items to make explosives. I can justify theft and murder by my own hands in a post apoc world by the simple fact that the government and civilization will have broken down and its now a survival of the fittest. If you think someone like me is going to go hungry while someone hordes their food supplies, you are grossly mistaken I will take what he has whether he wants to give it or not. THAT is how the world will operate under those circumstances. Right, wrong, moral, immoral or not is all up for grabs". (Khardis, Homepage of the Dead, 6-Aug-2008)


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

and to reiterate: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

made me choke on my coke, stray.

funny how old khardis just automatically assumed he was one of the "fittest." he also seems not to realize that when you start shooting at people, a lot of them have the annoying tendency to shoot back.

your reply gets a chuck award.

http://thelostjacket.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/chuck-norris-epic-win.jpg

[SymphonicX]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD! :D

Fuck you Kraken.

Sorry, I couldn't resist! :D :D :D

[krakenslayer]

Anyway, I'm really digressing... I can get into more of that later. I was talking about the whole "Turn the other cheek" thing. What it means is that if someone wrongs you, than you should be willing to forgive the person the indiscretion. It doesn't mean don't defend yourself if someone is literally punching you on the cheek or screwing around with your girlfriend/wife. It means that you must be willing to forgive the individual the transgressions they impose upon you. Turning the other cheek is turning your heart back to the person with a spirit of forgiveness with the person who has wronged you.


As a committed agnostic bordering on atheist I usually fight on the other side of the battle, but I must support J-Dog on this particular point: "Turn the other cheek" is probably the most widely misunderstood concept in any religion.

It is my understanding that "turning the other cheek" is almost an act of defiance towards someone who has wronged you, it's saying "I'm not afraid of you, I will not be drawn into your pettyness and I am not intimidated, look I'll even present my other cheek to prove it." Forgiveness doesn't mean you don't fight against enemies that pose a direct threat or that you let yourself be walked all over; it means not letting yourself be consumed by futile frustration, not descending into petty bickering and tit-for-tat bullshit. Basically it's all about remaining dignified and stoic in the face of adversity, about not letting your antagonist lower you to his level. That's my understanding anyway.

I'm not a Christian, as I say, but I really respect that particular philosophy.


Fuck you Kraken.

Sorry, I couldn't resist! :D :D :D

:lol:

[SymphonicX]

[QUOTE=krakenslayer;215610]As a committed agnostic bordering on atheist I usually fight on the other side of the battle, but I must support J-Dog on this particular point: "Turn the other cheek" is probably the most widely misunderstood concept in any religion.

It is my understanding that "turning the other cheek" is almost an act of defiance towards someone who has wronged you, it's saying "I'm not afraid of you, I will not be drawn into your pettyness and I am not intimidated, look I'll even present my other cheek to prove it." Forgiveness doesn't mean you don't fight against enemies that pose a direct threat or that you let yourself be walked all over; it means not letting yourself be consumed by futile frustration, not descending into petty bickering and tit-for-tat bullshit. Basically it's all about remaining dignified and stoic in the face of adversity, about not letting your antagonist lower you to his level. That's my understanding anyway.
[QUOTE]

Beautifully said, agree 100%

[LoSTBoY]

Well, welcome to the board Jeffery, hope you have a good stay. :)

I am not unfamiliar with the Satanist point of view, my friend is an active member of the CoS and if you recall a few years ago in the papers, he became the first registered Satanist in the Navy.

Over the years when we get a quiet spot and a few drinks we would discuss the teachings. From what I have learned, it seems to be more of a philosophy thant a religion and although many would not realise, they go by the 7 rules of Satanism on a daily basis.

Even though I go by the rules generally I'm still an agnostic at heart, too many Si-Fi films I think. :)

[Shadowofthedead]

consider myself christian but i dont push my beliefs off on people i dont think its right. i dont know much about the things you seak with the bible of satan nor do i have any interest in finding out. but you are you i am me and lets all not blow each the and have fun living... no point f this ost i was just bored:elol:

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

oh and middletown jeffey that place sucks there is literally nothing to do there
ha middie sucks

[krakenslayer]

consider myself christian but i dont push my beliefs off on people i dont think its right.


If only more religious people thought like that. I don't mind having and intellectual discussion on the topic of theology or science, but I hate it when people start trying to make me into whatever they are.

[EvilNed]

As for me, in less than 100 years the religions of man, Communism mostly, and Capitalism to a degree, have managed to murder and destroy more cultures and people (at least 100 million within Communism) than in all the history of the world combined within the religions of God.

No we didn't. Everything prospers with us. Everyone's happy. Everyone. Come... Join us. We are the happy ones.

(A lot of people may think I'm joking when I pull those communism things off, but Karl Marx said one thing I agree with to 100%:

Religion is the opiate of the people.)

[strayrider]

Aren't the following just common sense (except for 7 and 11)?

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s home, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. (see sexual harrassment.)
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved. (see stealing.)
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm young children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Rule #11 represents one of the 9 Satanic Sins:

1. Stupidity — The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism...

It is unwise to "destroy" someone for bothering you. You'll wind up in prison and get poked in the bottom.

Of course you could always ask your potential "poker" to refer to Rule #5, unless you're in their cell (see Rule #3). Rule #4 only apples if they've come to your cell looking for some lovin'. At any rate, do not invoke Rule #8 because if you hadn't followed Rule #11 and committed the #1 Sin you wouldn't be in the situation to begin with ...

Now, about Rule #7.

GKyGyH9mWHk

:D

-stray-

ps--At any rate, Jeff, I'm just funnin' (NOT making fun of) you. As a wise old guy preaching on the street corner once told me "You can believe what you want to believe!" Everything is valid. Whatever twists your cork screw.

[Danny]

a religious threads made it 4 pages without flaming. this is the first sign of catnarok.:|

[krakenslayer]

a religious threads made it 4 pages without flaming. this is the first sign of catnarok.:|

Yes, it makes me want to cry... not out of joy but out of strangeness and fear. :shifty:

:lol:

[MikePizzoff]

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.[/I]

Rule #11 represents one of the 9 Satanic Sins:

1. Stupidity — The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism...

It is unwise to "destroy" someone for bothering you. You'll wind up in prison and get poked in the bottom.


Ever since I first did some research on Satanic shit years ago, I've always found that rule absolutely hilarious. Every time I read it, I chuckle.

While I appreciate a lot of the Satanic ethos, and write/listen to plenty of music that's all about Satan, I can not bring myself to be governed by any sort of religion. However, I do feel that Satanists have a more level headed look on a lot of topics Christians freak me out over; thus making it the only religion I have some sort of respect for, although very minimal.

However, the biggest attraction to Satanism is that when used in metal it freaks out "norms" and can cause the weak to have panic attacks. :D

Bring the black box to the altar
Now raise your hands and do the sign
All hail Satan, yes hail Satan
Lay down your swords, the evil star

[krakenslayer]

Ever since I first did some research on Satanic shit years ago, I've always found that rule absolutely hilarious. Every time I read it, I chuckle.

:lol: Yes, I always envision Ming the Merciless, wild eyed and gesturing, bellowing: "DESTROY THEM!"

...which, if you've seen Anton LeVay, is really quite apt. :D

[AcesandEights]

I guess I don't have too many good things to say about Satanism as it's espoused nowadays. It's not so much the tenets that I take issue with, but the brand choice and unnecessary frippery that goes along with the tag satanism.

That said, if the world has room for Jedi adherents and practitioners of Scientology, why not Satanists? Though I prefer my satanists to be virgin-sacrificing plot devices.

Each to their own.

[Mike70]

Aren't the following just common sense (except for 7 and 11)?

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s home, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. (see sexual harrassment.)
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved. (see stealing.)
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm young children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.



most are both common sense and self evident as all hell. to set up a list of "rules" that are things that most 10 year olds understand is hardly a road map to live life by.

#4 makes me laugh like hell too. if a guest in your house annoys you, ask them to leave. treating annoying people "cruelly and without mercy" is ridiculous, impolite and hardly the way to win friends and influence people.

most these fall squarely in the realm of "no duh." #7 and #11 fall into the realm of WTF?


---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------




Bring the black box to the altar
Now raise your hands and do the sign
All hail Satan, yes hail Satan
Lay down your swords, the evil star

it's a black funeral,
she was a victim of my coven.


words from metal's favorite cartoon character.

[Danny]

words from metal's favorite cartoon character.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/khazrak/670165-him_large.jpg

[Mike70]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/khazrak/670165-him_large.jpg

ah! so that's what mrs. diamond looks like. i've always wondered.