Looks like the French are all set to ban the veil

[capncnut]

Click (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7080560/France-moves-closer-to-Muslim-face-veil-ban.html) for article.

Or at least partially. I'll be honest and agree with the decision. I live very close to London and find the full veil quite anti-social and intimidating. I wear a beanie hat in a shopping mall and I'm ordered to take it off for the CCTV, while someone walking around completely covered is totally acceptable? Nah, mate, not having it.

[MinionZombie]

I'm always very weary about banning stuff.

I don't think I'd support banning full veils.

HOWEVER - that's not to say that I personally find them demeaning to women, and I'd prefer to see someone's whole face - we're a society which puts a lot of stock in seeing someone's whole face, so it flies in the face (excuse the semi-pun) of our own society's coding (if you will) - so I personally find it uncomfortable/a barrier for traditional Western interaction.

It is also something that can and has been abused by terrible people. The sort of people who have totally misinterpreted Islam and gone off on a wild and violent tangent with it.

So in summary - I wouldn't support a ban ultimately - but at the same time I don't support full veils as I personally see them as demeaning to women.

...

As this is a topic that could potentially get heated, or possibly offensive, I'll chime in ahead of time to remind everyone to keep it civil and respectful. :)

[Tricky]

I am in agreement with it, both for the reasons stated above & also because it sends a clear message to the muslim world that at least the french will rightfully tolerate them, but "dont you bloody well think you can come to our country & take over" which is where the UK needs to toughen up big time. We seem to pander to them including the radicals who would like nothing better than to take over & impose Sharia law on us, and thats wrong. No other culture has come to our country & started making as much noise as they do, we have immigrants from all other backgrounds who just quietly get on with it & are welcome here, why cant they just do the same instead of forcing islam down the throats of us all?

[Ghost Of War]

Click (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7080560/France-moves-closer-to-Muslim-face-veil-ban.html) for article.

Or at least partially. I'll be honest and agree with the decision. I live very close to London and find the full veil quite anti-social and intimidating. I wear a beanie hat in a shopping mall and I'm ordered to take it off for the CCTV, while someone walking around completely covered is totally acceptable? Nah, mate, not having it.

I 100% agree with the bold bit. I've been told to do the same thing when I was in London once, I told them to fuck off and left, for that very reason. If I can't wear a hat or cap in your shopping centre, why should they be allowed to cover their whole faces? Oh, because I'm white/black/whatever and wearing a cap and a hooded top you presume I'm up to no good. :rolleyes: It's NEVER happened to me in Liverpool. The current government in the UK is too shit scared of offending anybody (apart from white christian British people), that a ban on veils here would never, ever happen.

That being said, I wouldn't support a total ban on the things. What I would support is the Muslim leaders in this country to use some common sense and "suggest" that women don't wear them.

[fartpants]

I The current government in the UK is too shit scared of offending anybody (apart from white christian British people), that a ban on veils here would never, ever happen.

.

this hits the nail on the head for me, its just a shame people are too scared to say it when it matters....:elol::elol::elol:

[Skippy911sc]

I don't understand the cultural impact of the veil or the banning of it. But if they can ban hats and ski masks at banks and malls then they should ban these as well. This gives me a great idea of using a veil as a disguise for a er... Never mind.

[capncnut]

I am in agreement with it, both for the reasons stated above & also because it sends a clear message to the muslim world that at least the french will rightfully tolerate them, but "dont you bloody well think you can come to our country & take over" which is where the UK needs to toughen up big time.
Smoochies. :kiss:

[kortick]

Its kinda odd to think u could wear
something that covered your total identity.

I i walked into a bank with a halloween mask on
id probably be shot.

i mean some people are so ugly that u would
prefer they wear something that covers their
face at all times, but we dont get that luxury.

it seems odd cuz wearing that definitely draws
attention to yourself and i know some areas
around here where if you walked around in
that type of clothing your body would probably be found
in a dumpster.

you should start a trend where if you see someone
with that thing on you rip it right off them, why wait
for the government to try to stop them.

[darth los]

I don't understand the cultural impact of the veil or the banning of it. But if they can ban hats and ski masks at banks and malls then they should ban these as well. This gives me a great idea of using a veil as a disguise for a er... Never mind.


The problem is that those don't qualify as religious articles while veils do.

:cool:

[MinionZombie]

you should start a trend where if you see someone
with that thing on you rip it right off them, why wait
for the government to try to stop them.

That actually happened a while ago I think.

It was a sort of violent/racist attack ... didn't win him any applause from the majority of Brits.

[darth los]

you should start a trend where if you see someone
with that thing on you rip it right off them, why wait
for the government to try to stop them.


Because when the gov't does it it's unconstitutional.

When private citizens do it it's considered a hate crime. Mitigating circumstances are rarely considered and they normally are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

So, not a good idea.

There is a way around that though. If enough people had the balls to do it, it couldn't be stoped. What are they gonna do arrest everyone? NOT

But then again the last time millions of Americans had the balls to take action on something it was called WW2. So ya...

:cool:

[Marie]

Click (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7080560/France-moves-closer-to-Muslim-face-veil-ban.html) for article. I wear a beanie hat in a shopping mall and I'm ordered to take it off for the CCTV, while someone walking around completely covered is totally acceptable? Nah, mate, not having it.

Interesting, so if youre Jewish and wear the yamaka(sp) do they tell you to take THAT off?

M_

[MinionZombie]

Interesting, so if youre Jewish and wear the yamaka(sp) do they tell you to take THAT off?

M_
Well no, cos it's religious.

...

It is an interesting thing though, because yeah - the full face veil hides someone's entire identify, then there's the ones with mess over the eyes, so you can't even see someone's eyes - and indeed a terrorist suspect fled the UK wearing the full veil and the whole shebang a couple of years ago.

...

Thinking about it further, really when all is said and done, the full face veil itself is against Western norms and traditions (referring back to my view that the full veil is demeaning to women, and that its basis lies in the man controlling the woman).

However - on the news if you see a female reporter in an Arab country or what have you, she'll be wearing a head scarf ... ... interesting.

[JDFP]

I guess I'm the only one out there who feels this way, from reading this post I suppose, but here goes anyway...

As long as someone's religious clothing doesn't cause harm/offense to me (like walking around naked, unless you're a hot girl of course, or wearing a sword at all times), then I think it's a damn shame to attempt to suppress this religious right and freedom. Furthermore, it's a direct assault against religious rights and is an attack on Freedom of Religion.

While we see the veil, burqa, or head-dresses in one way, to Muslim women they are a sign of submission before God, respect to God, as well as to their path of life. These articles of clothing are also worn to help keep men from giving into lustful thoughts of women they see. Whether we agree with the ideology or not, we don't have to, it's really none of our damn business because it's not our faith. A woman who chooses to wear these articles of clothing because of her religious ideology should damn well have the right to do it. The veil / burqa / head-dress to us may be seen as a sign of "oppression", but to many Islamic women they are a sign of respect to their faith and God. And good for them if they do. I have seen some absolutely beautifully crafted head-dresses / veils and have nothing but respect for women who choose to cover themselves in this way for their religious ideology. I think it's overly simplistic to say that women don't choose to cover themselves in this way and are only doing it because they are oppressed into it -- ALL of the Islamic women I have personally known who dress in this manner, and I knew quite a few when I attended college, see it as giving honor to their faith and God.

How would I feel if I went to a foreign country, as a Christian, and was told that I could never carry a rosary with me in public? How would I feel if I was told I couldn't wear the color red in some countries? I see people every day wearing shirts with words like "FUCK YOU" and other obscenities on them regularly, and this is perfectly fine, but it's shameful to see a woman who wears a gorgeous head-dress passed down from her mother's side of the family for generations because we associate that with: "Oh, she might be one of those fundamentalist Islamic terrorists! Go grab the rifle off the bed of the truck next to the rebel flag, Pa!".

Yeah, the real problem isn't with the article of clothing at all... it's the problem with associating that article of clothing with the fear people have of that person being of a particular religious ideology (Muslim) and oh no no... we just can't have that in our society at all... So let's be religiously tolerant and accepting of other faiths / cultures, as long as they don't scare us because of what fringe members from that faith have done.

j.p.

[TheSeasonOfFire]

Basically people are intimidated by practices that seem alien to them, and they're first instinct is to try to force that person to conform to what falls into the predetermined comfort zone.

How can you say you live in a free country when you want to control what clothing a grown woman chooses to wear?

[Tricky]

Basically people are intimidated by practices that seem alien to them, and they're first instinct is to try to force that person to conform to what falls into the predetermined comfort zone.




I'd say those fears are quite justified by a lot of people though, its not just that its alien, people are actually seeing the aggression of fundamentalist muslims around the world daily! Whether its people like Abu Hamza or that Choudary bloke chanting hate on the streets of Britain or the mumbai terror attacks, or the so called "honor killings" against Muslim girls by their own families for the most pathetic reasons, the 7/7 tube bombings & the British born muslims travelling over to Afghanistan to kill British soldiers, we have a lot more to fear from that particular religion than any other in the world!

[SymphonicX]

I for one am against this "banning". Just like Sweden (?) banning minarets as an architectural style, this is just completely stupid.

I'm also very offended by some of the views expressed in this thread but to save bitching sessions I'll leave that there.

I can't really find the words to go into to express myself here, the disbelief is taking over. This is just too much, banning religious symbolism because of a fringe group's distortion of their meaning is beyond me. It's again a kneejerk reaction to the problems that are being faced here.

Personally it's not within my cultural grasp to understand why the veil is so widely worn by people, and to be completely honest that removes my right to an opinion really. I can sit here for hours saying how it "hides" people, how it's this and that and whatever...the bottom line is, if you go out on the street you'll find no end to the people who support it's use - in our supposedly "free" Britain or in any other city in the world.

Just like I'll never understand why you'd not eat meat on a Friday, or would paint eggs in April, or wear a toga.

Live and let live guys. Is the veil hurting you? No. It can be argued that it's hurting Islamic women - I say let them traverse their own cultural boundaries themselves. It took us hundreds of years to be OK with sex before marriage, for example. This same journey will be taken by those who want to take it, in due course.

The veil symbolises nothing with regards to terrorism. Let's not forget that 99.9% of people practising religions do NOT want to blow themselves up. Those who do are doing it for a political reason and you'll find that religion barely comes into it for those people - they just express it through religion in the media and that has harmed the whole bunch of apples. This will affect way too many innocent people.

I feel sorry for those who just want to practise islam in peace. It's NOT a violent religion, its just got some violent people using it as an excuse...in the same way Christians did hundreds of years ago.

[MinionZombie]

Just in case, I'll clarify my position.

While I've asked questions, or made observations, regarding the full face veil - and expressed my own view of it as demeaning to women (in my view) - I don't support a ban.

...

And that minaret thing in Sweden was strange ... there's barely any minarets in the entire country, isn't there? There was a funny bit about the whole deal on The Daily Show a while back too, if I remember correctly.

[SRP76]

My god, what does this mean for the ninja community?!:eek: