Sarah, Day, and the rape issue

[sandrock74]

Why does it seem that every thread about Day always has "Sarah being raped" brought up? I mean, why does everyone assume that every guy there was going to just up and pounce on her at any given minute?

Maybe I'm just undersexed or something, but I've never had a desire to rape a woman...not because it is illegal, just because it's simply wrong. Even if I were in the bunker for a long time with only one chick around, I don't see that opinion changing.

I just think that too many viewers just assume the worst from the soldiers there. Other than the single instance of Rhodes making his ever so suave (sarcasm alert) comments towards her, not one of the guys ever said anything to her or made threatening moves against her in that regard. (I also don't believe for a minute that there was respect for her due to her being with Miguel.)

So, am I just incredibly naive? Did I miss a scene in the movie or something? I'm just curious to see why everyone seems to think the whole Sarah gang rape was like minutes away. Please discuss, I'd love to hear what you all have to say.

P.S.
Philly, I eagerly await to see some images with red arrows and circles. :lol: Seriously, if you could work one or two in somehow, you will be my idol! :D

[Mike70]

she probably was never raped because she was armed and there are other people in the bunker who would come to her defense.

i agree, legality aside, rape is one of those things that is just WRONG no matter how you slice it or what your viewpoint is. there is not a single viable reason or defense for an act of rape nor does it depend on your personal notions of what is right or wrong. period.

[darth los]

So, am I just incredibly naive? Did I miss a scene in the movie or something? I'm just curious to see why everyone seems to think the whole Sarah gang rape was like minutes away. Please discuss, I'd love to hear what you all have to say.

Well, I'm at work so i don't have time to psycho analyze the male brain with you but after they're get together where rhodes tells them there's a meeting tonight numerous sexual comments were made (even before then with the "biggest piece of meat in the cave" comment) including sedating miguel so "the rest of them can have a shot at some lovin'"

Fisher definitely noticed because when they left he told her "you better watch yourself, I mean PSYSICALLY watch yourself."

That's where people get it from among other instances.

:cool:

[AcesandEights]

P.S.
Philly, I eagerly await to see some images with red arrows and circles. :lol: Seriously, if you could work one or two in somehow, you will be my idol! :D

Incoming ven diagrams!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eVQg42Xdh0s/SwWy1NRbHeI/AAAAAAAAAO8/wa0yylLOndw/s1600/Jesus+zombie+vampire+venn+diagram.jpg

[krakenslayer]

I think there was an undercurrent of sexual threat, or at least harassment, in scenes like the first corral sequence where the guys seem to get pretty breathless and display aggressive body language while talking about their dicks and how they could "excite" her; and also later when Rickles thrusts at her while taking about her screwing Miguel. Those guys have a lot of pent up aggression and sexual tension.

I think Romero did it to make Sarah seem more threatened and vulnerable, in spite of her strong personality, and also to highlight how different John and Billy were. I doubt Torrez, Johnson, and the like (even Rhodes) would rape her anyway, it's just Rickles and Steel (particularly Rickles), I'm not sure about.

[darth los]

I think there was an undercurrent of sexual threat, or at least harassment, in scenes like the first corral sequence where the guys seem to get pretty breathless and display aggressive body language while talking about their dicks and how they could "excite" her; and also later when Rickles thrusts at her while taking about her screwing Miguel. Those guys have a lot of pent up aggression and sexual tension.


Ok. Let's conceed that point.

That's one of the things that always messed me up about this film. All that pent up sexual tension being displayed by virtually all the military personel, yet they are way to quick, imo, to shove the last known living woman on earth into the coral. Yet another inconsistency.

:cool:

[AcesandEights]

All that pent up sexual tension being displayed by virtually all the military personel, yet they are way to quick, imo, to shove the last known living woman on earth into the coral. Yet another inconsistency.

:cool:

I don't see that as inconsistency, per se. It's misplaced aggression, which is everywhere throughout the film. The fact is, the characters involved were acting irrationally in many ways and this is, I feel, due to the situation and strains they were under; with reason & a shattered sense of common decency & societal norms competing against base instincts, aggression and fears in an--all too often--losing battle.

Also, the very act of sexual violence is, to many of us, counter-intuitive...as is placing another person who is a possible compatriot in violent danger of their lives. I just don't see how we can accurately apply the psychology of sexual desire along with the normal give and take of healthy human beings to many of the survivors in the bunker at the point we meet them in the narrative.

[krakenslayer]

Ok. Let's conceed that point.

That's one of the things that always messed me up about this film. All that pent up sexual tension being displayed by virtually all the military personel, yet they are way to quick, imo, to shove the last known living woman on earth into the coral. Yet another inconsistency.

:cool:

Well, I guess sexual violence is never really about sex, it's more a vent for anger and frustration and a means of exerting power. Under the right conditions, it's possible that their frustration might have been vented in sexual violence rather than in the way it did, but the way it DID play out was that Rhodes (who was mostly just interested in keep everyone in line) had the traitors more or less "formally" summarily court marshalled. If it had all been a little less "planned" out and more chaotic, or if Rickles and Steel had been left alone to guard her, it might have been different.

Remember it was only Rickles, Steel, and to a much lesser extent, Rhodes that exhibited any sexism towards Sarah. Johnson, Torrez and the other couple of guys were all pretty laid back, really.

[AcesandEights]

Well, I guess sexual violence is never really about sex, it's more a vent for anger and frustration and a means of exerting power. Under the right conditions, it's possible that their frustration might have been vented in sexual violence rather than in the way it did, but the way it DID play out was that Rhodes (who was mostly just interested in keep everyone in line) had the traitors more or less "formally" summarily court marshalled. If it had all been a little less "planned" out and more chaotic, or if Rickles and Steel had been left alone to guard her, it might have been different.


Mmmm, I wanted to type something like this up, but couldn't have done it so succinctly. Good points, Kraken!

[SRP76]

For all they knew, Sarah was the only pussy left on Earth. Two choics: rape it, or go without ever getting laid ever in your life, ever again.

With a zombie horde outside and nothing to lose, not everyone's going to go all moral on us. Plenty of guys would just say, "well, time for me to get some".

[Gemini]

The isolation and morbid existence of those living in that cave would drive normally sensible and sane people to do atrocious things, including rape. It is easy to say from where we sit all of the terrible things we would "never do" ...but extreme situations change people.

And it would not be about sex or getting the last pussy on earth, it would be about violence and control.

[EvilNed]

Extreme situations (and I'd like to call the situation in Day extreme) bring out a different side amongst men. During wartime people change. Sometimes for the worse. I can definetly see that happening here.

[krakenslayer]

Leaning very slightly off topic: one thing that I don't get about rapists, aside form the obvious question of "why do they do it", (and I'm really not trying to be funny here) is... well... I don't think I could get it up in middle of a fight.

I mean, sorry if this is a little graphic, I've never tried it obviously, but I would have said the exertion and adrenaline of violently wrestling with someone and pinning them to the ground would be a ball shrivelling experience rather than a sexually exciting one. I'm not saying I have trouble getting it up under normal circumstances, but I don't think I've ever been angry and had a boner at the same time (okay, you can laugh now :lol:) and I honestly don't think I could physically commit rape even if I wanted to (which I obviously don't).

So although I agree to an extent about extreme situations making people do things out of character, I do think rape is a special case. I think, unlike murder, you have to be a certain kind of person to be physically capable of it, someone for whom violence is actually a turn on. That, admittedly, may be a fairly large part of the male population, however (given some things I've seen online, and I'm not talking porn).

[SRP76]

I'm not a rape guru or anything, but I'd guess that most of the time there isn't much of a fight. The offender would be using some sort of weapon to threaten the victim into not struggling.

[darth los]

For all they knew, Sarah was the only pussy left on Earth. Two choics: rape it, or go without ever getting laid ever in your life, ever again.

With a zombie horde outside and nothing to lose, not everyone's going to go all moral on us. Plenty of guys would just say, "well, time for me to get some".

Never underestimate what human beings will do if they feel that there's no chance that they'll get caught or that there will not be any consequences to their actions.

When no one's watching...

:cool:

[sandrock74]

I'm not a rape guru or anything, but I'd guess that most of the time there isn't much of a fight. The offender would be using some sort of weapon to threaten the victim into not struggling.

That's not what she said! :lol::stunned:
Just kidding....I just wanted to say it before someone else did.

[JDFP]

I think the thought of Steel raping Sarah is pushing it a bit. He's easily the most interesting character (outside of Rhodes, IMO) in the film that I really wish we had gotten to see more and come to know better. Maybe it was just the acting in the film, but I never saw Steel as just a "grunt idiot for fodder" in the flick. Even Rickles surprises with his whole comment of (paraphrase): "Maybe they're scared, they know what Frankenstein is going to do to them." While Johnson, Miller, et. al. were definitely nothing more than fodder in the flick, Rickles (and especially Steel) were much more.

There's a couple of fairly touching scenes in the flick with Steel as well. The scene in particular where I think it's Johnson (one of the fodder guys) is saying: "Take me, Steel, I don't want to be like them!" and you can see the real pain and sorrow in his eyes. Sure, he's a dirty mouthed S.O.B. sometimes, but I think there's a great deal more going on up in Steel's brain than we give the man credit for in this thread.

Second is the scene where Rhodes yells at Steel to shoot Sarah. The man was definitely pulled between following the orders (ethics aside in a situation where you may be the only survivors in the world) from his C.O. in shooting her and the hesitation and fear. How different of a flick would "DAY" have been if Steel had gotten some steel balls and shot Rhodes instead? I don't think Steel would have raped Sarah, while a few of the other soldiers may have considered it, I just don't see Steel going in that direction.

Then again, maybe it's just Gary Howard's very astute acting that blows away the other fodder soldiers that give's that extra "oomph" to Steel.

j.p.

[Mike70]

With a zombie horde outside and nothing to lose, not everyone's going to go all moral on us.

indeed they wouldn't. i'd be the first to admit that i am a bit of a moralist. i think that there are absolutes in the way one acts and the way one treats other people; that they don't change depending on the situation you are in.

this is not to say that i wouldn't kill someone in a survival situation if they became a threat to my life or the people around me. it simply means that i wouldn't act like an animal.

[blind2d]

Yep, so... rape... I personally think it's the worst, stupidest thing one could ever do. Worse than murder, and probably suicide. I mean, what reason could you possibly have to justify it? Nothing that holds water, I'll tell you that! I mean, everyone's got hands, pretty much, so... yeah, rape is just... it shouldn't exist. Way worse than cannibalism.

[Publius]

I mean, what reason could you possibly have to justify it? Nothing that holds water, I'll tell you that! I mean, everyone's got hands, pretty much, so... yeah, rape is just... it shouldn't exist. Way worse than cannibalism.

In the old, old days it was often a method of appropriating an enemy's resources by force. Just like you might take his crops, land, or livestock. Still horribly unjust, obviously, but there's your practical answer. Everyone's got hands but you can't breed with 'em.

[clanglee]

I'm not a rape guru or anything.

:lol::lol::lol:

Quoted!!