Dr. Logan stays dead?

[Gemini]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but why didn't Dr. Logan rise after being executed? Did he catch a round in the skull that we didn't see?

[EvilNed]

Yes. Let's just leave it at that. Yes.

[Mike70]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1364/868682530_23a1aced40.jpg?v=0

back, back i say!

[bassman]

I've given it a lot of thought...and the answer is 42.


42.

[Trin]

Y'all know it's a good question. And the answer lies somewhere between GAR and Inconsistent.

[hadrian0117]

Either GAR simply forgot to show Logan rising or it's a relic from the original scrip for Day (which had a character not rising and thus giving hope to the survivors that the zombie pandemic was ending). My money's on the latter.

[krakenslayer]

I think it's a goof. However, the goof is not that Romero FORGOT to revive him, but instead that he neglected to show a head wound clearly, because he probably thought (wrongly) that what he showed on-screen was enough to give us the impression of a body punctured top to bottom by bullets. The poor guy is absolutely riddled with lead, it's possible, nay, likely that he got hit in the head and that Romero intended this to be the case. We're certainly not shown otherwise (we first see Logan being shot from the front, the bullets pounding his torso, but then cut to a shot from behind and we see him from the shoulders down, dancing around like a ragdoll as bullets rake across his body and finally collapses).

I think we're supposed to assume that Rhodes's bullets put him out of action permanently. But it's too ambiguous to be sure.

[bassman]

This is been covered in several threads, i believe. The short answer is there is no answer.

I could be wrong, but isn't Richard Liberty asked this question on the Day dvd audio interview and he says it was never discussed?

[Trin]

I've watched the scene enough times to be convinced that the brain is never destroyed. The head appears intact both when Logan drops during the shooting scene and later when Bub finds him. There just doesn't appear to be a head wound.

My personal opinion is that Rhodes and his men would've preferred to kill Logan in such a way as to preserve his brain and make him into one of the creatures. But they weren't really thinking too hard about it at the time.

We also don't know specifics of how long it takes for a dead body to rise. Most of the evidence points to a timeframe that is very short. But it's not conclusive. Everything happened very fast. It's possible that Logan just hadn't gotten around to it yet. We know he was late to meetings. :p

And, as everyone knows, there's no clean answer here.

[shootemindehead]

He dies in a freezer. Probably wouldn't be doing too much walking around after that.

[bassman]

He dies in a freezer. Probably wouldn't be doing too much walking around after that.

Well....Dead bodies shouldn't be doing too much walking around period.:p

[Gemini]

I hate to say it, but if I had to guess I would say it was a goof and we are all scrutinizing the scene much more than the production crew was, unfortunately.

[JDFP]

Now see, all these people have it completely wrong...

Doc Logan was a genius, after all, and he was well-prepared for the day that Rhodes and his men would decide to attempt to kill him. What really happened that day is that Logan had a thin but effective bullet-proof body vest that he was wearing. He also had the vest sealed with a red ink to make it look like exploding blood if shot. It was all very realistic, and part of his ploy, you see.

When Bub came upon Logan he hadn't turned because he wasn't really dead. The shock of the bullets was enough to knock him unconscious for some time though. Many hours later, after he came to again, it was to his great chagrin that the ghouls were in the compound. However, the scene of Bub and Dr. Logan embracing as friends was a very emotional one, and with Bub's help Logan was able to make it to the armory in succeeding in the plan that Rhodes failed in earlier -- unloading the artillery on the ghouls in the compound and "blowing the piss out of 'em".

Bub and Dr. Logan were able to re-take the facility from the ghouls. There in the compound they lived many years of playing chess and arguing about Aunt Alicia's cookies and Logan was able to create a family of sorts, the kind he never had before, after training many more ghouls to behave themselves. Of course, one day, Logan decided to leave the compound with his new friends for good -- but, as they say, that's a story for another day...

:)

j.p.

[Gemini]

Now see, all these people have it completely wrong...

Doc Logan was a genius, after all, and he was well-prepared for the day that Rhodes and his men would decide to attempt to kill him. What really happened that day is that Logan had a thin but effective bullet-proof body vest that he was wearing. He also had the vest sealed with a red ink to make it look like exploding blood if shot. It was all very realistic, and part of his ploy, you see.

When Bub came upon Logan he hadn't turned because he wasn't really dead. The shock of the bullets was enough to knock him unconscious for some time though. Many hours later, after he came to again, it was to his great chagrin that the ghouls were in the compound. However, the scene of Bub and Dr. Logan embracing as friends was a very emotional one, and with Bub's help Logan was able to make it to the armory in succeeding in the plan that Rhodes failed in earlier -- unloading the artillery on the ghouls in the compound and "blowing the piss out of 'em".

Bub and Dr. Logan were able to re-take the facility from the ghouls. There in the compound they lived many years of playing chess and arguing about Aunt Alicia's cookies and Logan was able to create a family of sorts, the kind he never had before, after training many more ghouls to behave themselves. Of course, one day, Logan decided to leave the compound with his new friends for good -- but, as they say, that's a story for another day...

:)

j.p.

Now that is some funny shit, especially the Aunt Alicia reference

[blind2d]

JD... you're a genius. But personally, I think Logan was just a slow riser. If yours or my answer here is wrong, then... I don't know what it could be.

[AcesandEights]

I never understood why this was worth any controversy what-so-ever. Does it spring from something else someone behind the scenes once said or hinted at?

There are a number of things that could have happened off-screen that accounted for not seeing Logan again that were far more likely than Logan not reanimating due to an end of the condition causing the dead to rise (the end of the 'curse' as some have said), Likewise, just because something is not expressly covered on-screen doesn't mean it was a goof.

[bassman]

Likewise, just because something is not expressly covered on-screen does mean it was a goof.

Right on. Plus - whether or not Logan could or would rise from the dead has nothing to do with the scene at hand. The scene was about his brutal slaying and Bub's emotional reaction to it.

It makes you wonder though....would Bub have went after Rhodes if Logan had come back as a zombie? Or would they have just been living dead best buddies and shambled off into the sunset while holding hands?

[Legion2213]

It would've been great to have seen him rolling Bub and all his other zombie pals later on though...:)

[RustyHicks]

maybe a bullet bounced off a wall and hit him in the back of the head and we didn't see any wounds. Who knows. I think he suppose to be shot in the head and it wasn't shown.

[AcesandEights]

I'm officially starting a rumor.

8 seconds of film were supposedly shot, wherein Rhodes walks up to the bullet-riddled body of Dr. Logan and aims his sidearm down (presumably at the good Doctor's head...but, oh my god, what if it was at his clipboard?! After all the head shot was not explicitly shown!) and says: "You can cancel my order of Greek Salad, Doc." and pulls the trigger.

Rumors as to why this was seemingly added to film, while not being included in the script, only to be left on the cutting room floor are many and varied...

[Trin]

Right on. Plus - whether or not Logan could or would rise from the dead has nothing to do with the scene at hand. The scene was about his brutal slaying and Bub's emotional reaction to it.
I think fundamentally you're right. The scene plays out fine as shown. But it's all perspective.

Consider the viewer watching the scene for the first time who recognizes that Logan *should* rise from the dead but doesn't. That viewer might be confused by the inconsistency and distracted wondering if the detail was important. Thus missing the point of the scene. The expectation that Logan would/should rise could lead to a real wtf moment.

A little of that is fine. Write it off as loose storytelling or director/writer flubups and move on. String too much of it together, though, and we get Land hater threads.


It makes you wonder though....would Bub have went after Rhodes if Logan had come back as a zombie? Or would they have just been living dead best buddies and shambled off into the sunset while holding hands?Maybe Bub shows Logan how to use the gun and teaches him to kill. Then lets Logan go off Rhodes. Then they start a book club and call all their friends on the phone.

[Andy]

I always just thought we don't see him rise rather than he dosnt, Logan dosnt get much screentime after his death and you never really know from any of the dead trilogy how long it takes a body revive so...

That said I've never given it alot of thought, there's bigger more important mysteries in romeros dead universe, like howcome the cemetry zombie never even tried to bite johnny?

[Mike70]

8 seconds of film were supposedly shot, wherein Rhodes walks up to the bullet-riddled body of Dr. Logan and aims his sidearm down (presumably at the good Doctor's head...but, oh my god, what if it was at his clipboard?! After all the head shot was not explicitly shown!) and says: "You can cancel my order of Greek Salad, Doc." and pulls the trigger.

:lol:
oh, if that were only in the movie it would be one of the greatest movie quotes ever.

[BillyRay]

That said I've never given it alot of thought, there's bigger more important mysteries in romeros dead universe, like howcome the cemetry zombie never even tried to bite johnny?

Yeah! Howcome Johnny, who gets his melon caved in, rises from the dead, but the little old lady in the farmhouse don't, and she only got her face chewed off?

And is there a zombie Rhodes dragging his undead torso through the underground bunker?

[MaximusIncredulous]

"When there's no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth."

Honestly, I think Doc Logan went to Heaven.

[Ghost Of War]

I heard a rumour that 8 seconds of film were supposedly shot, wherein Rhodes walks up to the bullet-riddled body of Dr. Logan and aims his sidearm down (presumably at the good Doctor's head...but, oh my god, what if it was at his clipboard?! After all the head shot was not explicitly shown!) and says: "You can cancel my order of Greek Salad, Doc." and pulls the trigger.




(sorry, couldn't resist)



But really I reckon this quote pretty much nails it.


whether or not Logan could or would rise from the dead has nothing to do with the scene at hand. The scene was about his brutal slaying and Bub's emotional reaction to it.

Simples.

[krakenslayer]

That said I've never given it alot of thought, there's bigger more important mysteries in romeros dead universe, like howcome the cemetry zombie never even tried to bite johnny?

Yeah, I always wondered about that. The only explanations I can think of are: the zombie will always chase live prey over a dead meal (quite possibly what was originally intended, but creates another inconsistency with the rest of the series), or the lightning flash momentarily stunned/distracted him at the moment he was going to bite, then when the distraction cleared, he had glanced up and Barbara was the only human in his field of vision, so due to his fish-like attention/memory span he immediately forgot about the corpse underneath him and went after Barb.

[shootemindehead]

Well....Dead bodies shouldn't be doing too much walking around period.:p

You're on the wrong board pal... :D

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------


Now see, all these people have it completely wrong...

Doc Logan was a genius, after all, and he was well-prepared for the day that Rhodes and his men would decide to attempt to kill him. What really happened that day is that Logan had a thin but effective bullet-proof body vest that he was wearing. He also had the vest sealed with a red ink to make it look like exploding blood if shot. It was all very realistic, and part of his ploy, you see.

When Bub came upon Logan he hadn't turned because he wasn't really dead. The shock of the bullets was enough to knock him unconscious for some time though. Many hours later, after he came to again, it was to his great chagrin that the ghouls were in the compound. However, the scene of Bub and Dr. Logan embracing as friends was a very emotional one, and with Bub's help Logan was able to make it to the armory in succeeding in the plan that Rhodes failed in earlier -- unloading the artillery on the ghouls in the compound and "blowing the piss out of 'em".

Bub and Dr. Logan were able to re-take the facility from the ghouls. There in the compound they lived many years of playing chess and arguing about Aunt Alicia's cookies and Logan was able to create a family of sorts, the kind he never had before, after training many more ghouls to behave themselves. Of course, one day, Logan decided to leave the compound with his new friends for good -- but, as they say, that's a story for another day...

:)

j.p.

Ah, you've seen 'Day of the Dead 2 Contagium' as well...

[krakenslayer]

He dies in a freezer. Probably wouldn't be doing too much walking around after that.

That's a very, very good point. I think somewhere between seeing him riddled with bullets, his corpse being left in a mist of freezing ice vapor on the floor of a massive refrigerator, and us only seeing his corpse within an hour of his death, we're just supposed to just accept that he doesn't rise during the movie. Maybe he does come back, maybe he does after we've left the bunker because the cold temperature delayed his revival. But it serves no function in the plot as it stands, so it's not shown.

[darth los]

That said I've never give it alot of thought, there's bigger more important mysteries in romeros dead universe, like howcome the cemetry zombie never even tried to bite johnny?

That i would attribute to the fact that at the time they didn't have their ghoul "rules" set yet.

However, by the time DOTD rolls around you'd figure that they would have it down.

Gotta love GAr.

:cool:

[Trin]

Who would you rather eat? Johnny or Barbra?

[blind2d]

Good point, I suppose. Then again, since Johnny was dead immediately, it makes sense that the guy would lose interest, especially since there was a live person (Barbara) so close.

[AcesandEights]

I heard a rumour that 8 seconds of film were supposedly shot, wherein Rhodes walks up to the bullet-riddled body of Dr. Logan and aims his sidearm down (presumably at the good Doctor's head...but, oh my god, what if it was at his clipboard?! After all the head shot was not explicitly shown!) and says: "You can cancel my order of Greek Salad, Doc." and pulls the trigger.


You heard that too? :D

[krakenslayer]

Good point, I suppose. Then again, since Johnny was dead immediately, it makes sense that the guy would lose interest, especially since there was a live person (Barbara) so close.

Not to open a whole new avenue of debate, but I'd submit that it's better for continuity's sake if we assume that Johnny was simply knocked out on the stone, and was killed later, while he lay unconscious in the cemetery.

For a long time I though it was a goof, but I guess if you watch closely, it's not really a fatal blow, even in the remake where the injury is much more violent. I've seen people in real life, with far worse head injuries, suffering no long-term ill-effects.

[strayrider]

Personally, I believe it was a case of Romero "dropping the ball", not "goofing" by not having Logan revive.

Imagine (if you will) that when Rhodes opens that final, fateful door in the bunker, instead of a bunch of silly looking ghouls standing there--we see the grinning, bullet-riddled corpse of Logan (cue dramatic music).

Ah the irony. Rhodes attacked and eaten by the man he had just murdered, and Logan who had once fed men like Rhodes to his prized specimen. Both, in the end, receiving their final "reward".

In Night we had the return of Johnny.

In Dawn the return of Roger and Stephen.

In Day...no one (excluding Johnson's wired-up head).

Third and goal...3 seconds on the clock...there's the snap...Romero rolls right, looks left...endzone...fumble!

:D

-stray-

[darth los]

Good point, I suppose. Then again, since Johnny was dead immediately, it makes sense that the guy would lose interest, especially since there was a live person (Barbara) so close.

I agree with kraken and we just can't assume that he died immediately.

Also, in DOTD fisher died immediately and the ghouls had no problem busting him down so i don't think that theory is likely. But then again it is GAr so...

:cool:

[Trin]

Not to open a whole new avenue of debate, but I'd submit that it's better for continuity's sake if we assume that Johnny was simply knocked out on the stone, and was killed later, while he lay unconscious in the cemetery.
Help me out - how does that help continuity?


For a long time I though it was a goof, but I guess if you watch closely, it's not really a fatal blow, even in the remake where the injury is much more violent. I've seen people in real life, with far worse head injuries, suffering no long-term ill-effects.
Blunt trauma head wounds are only rarely fatal in any short time frame. Most often IF people die from them it's due to brain swelling that happens later.

For that matter, is there even such a thing as a blow that has the body dead within a few seconds? I mean, the worst spine severing neck blow still has signs of life for thirty seconds or so. From the cemetary zombie's point of view Johnny is still good eatin as he lays there on the ground whether he's gonna be dead within the minute or whether he's gonna wake up later.

It seemed like the cemetary zombie just went for Barbra because she caught his attention. It wasn't that he wouldn't have eaten Johnny because he was lying motionless. He saw a more tasty snack.

The little girl was eating on mommy who was non-moving and dead. When Ben shows up she pulls away and pursues him. Apparently a mom in the mouth is NOT worth two Ben's in the cellar.

After 5 movies it's still unclear what a zombie will eat, when, and why. Heck, it's still not certain IF all zombies will eat. Remind me why I love these movies so much?

[krakenslayer]

Help me out - how does that help continuity?

Because if he did receive such massive head trauma that he was killed outright, which he probably doesn't, then it kind of hurts the believability of him later returning as a ghoul. Sure, it's possible that a zombie can function with cranial injuries sufficient to kill a human, but it clashes conceptually (if not factually) with the idea that head trauma is what kills zombies.

[darth los]

Not to open a whole new avenue of debate, but I'd submit that it's better for continuity's sake if we assume that Johnny was simply knocked out on the stone, and was killed later, while he lay unconscious in the cemetery.

For a long time I though it was a goof, but I guess if you watch closely, it's not really a fatal blow, even in the remake where the injury is much more violent. I've seen people in real life, with far worse head injuries, suffering no long-term ill-effects.

Were we watching the same movie !?! :confused:

They looked pretty fatal to me. I mean, have you ever gotten a violent blow with the side of a marble gravestone? Nah, me neither. :p

Also, i don't take fatal in meaning instant. Just because a blow/strike is fatal doesn't mean you die then and there but it does mean your gonna die.

:cool:

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------


Because if he did receive such massive head trauma that he was killed outright, which he probably doesn't, then it kind of hurts the believability of him later returning as a ghoul. Sure, it's possible that a zombie can function with cranial injuries sufficient to kill a human, but it clashes conceptually (if not factually) with the idea that head trauma is what kills zombies.

Well, it depends on the severity of the trauma.

Just look at the ghoul from diary with the acid eating at his brain. His brain was half gone and the big bastard was still looking for lunch.

:cool:

[Rottedfreak]

There's a load of inconsistecies in the quadrilogy, Night has the radio announcer stating "Examination on some of the bodies show evidence of murdered victims having been partially devoured by their murderers." and then TV has a scientist say it takes only minutes for them to rise which would make it impossible for anyone to do a autopsy or examination.

[Andy]

There's a load of inconsistecies in the quadrilogy, Night has the radio announcer stating "Examination on some of the bodies show evidence of murdered victims having been partially devoured by their murderers." and then TV has a scientist say it takes only minutes for them to rise which would make it impossible for anyone to do a autopsy or examination.

Unless they mean a examination of a ghoul which they have killed? :confused:

[krakenslayer]

Unless they mean a examination of a ghoul which they have killed? :confused:

Yeah, it's also likely that those referred to as "victims" at that time were those who had not, for whatever reason, risen from the dead, because (if I remember correctly) this was before it had been announced that the corpses were actually rising. The ones that got up and walked away before the cops arrived wouldn't have been picked up and taken back for examination.

[Trin]

Because if he did receive such massive head trauma that he was killed outright, which he probably doesn't, then it kind of hurts the believability of him later returning as a ghoul. Sure, it's possible that a zombie can function with cranial injuries sufficient to kill a human, but it clashes conceptually (if not factually) with the idea that head trauma is what kills zombies.Oh, I gotcha.

I never really thought about it, but isn't it possible (even likely) that there is a level of brain injury that can kill a person but not render the brain destroyed for reanimation? Dr. Logan showed that only a small part of the brain was required for reanimation whereas (except for some of us posters here) a large portion of the brain is required for life.

[krakenslayer]

Oh, I gotcha.

I never really thought about it, but isn't it possible (even likely) that there is a level of brain injury that can kill a person but not render the brain destroyed for reanimation? Dr. Logan showed that only a small part of the brain was required for reanimation whereas (except for some of us posters here) a large portion of the brain is required for life.

Yeah, it's possible, I guess. However, it would be misleading and confusing to the audience, continuity-wise, if that's what was intended but never discussed. It's just the sort of thing that's possible in "real life" but you wouldn't write into the script if you were trying to tell a coherent fictional story, like having two unrelated characters with the same name - possible and common in real life, but you never see in in movies/TV. Sure, Romero has some inconsistencies in rules between the movies, but no so often within them.

[darth los]

There's a load of inconsistecies in the quadrilogy, Night has the radio announcer stating "Examination on some of the bodies show evidence of murdered victims having been partially devoured by their murderers." and then TV has a scientist say it takes only minutes for them to rise which would make it impossible for anyone to do a autopsy or examination.

Unless they cut out the brain first...

:cool:

[Trin]

Yeah, it's possible, I guess. However, it would be misleading and confusing to the audience, continuity-wise, if that's what was intended but never discussed. It's just the sort of thing that's possible in "real life" but you wouldn't write into the script if you were trying to tell a coherent fictional story, like having two unrelated characters with the same name - possible and common in real life, but you never see in in movies/TV. Sure, Romero has some inconsistencies in rules between the movies, but no so often within them.Yeah, sure, I was just speculating.

It really seems like the ghouls have a very low tolerance for brain injury. How many times do we see them get hit with a gun butt or 2x4 and go down? Whereas Logan hacks one of their brains to shreds and it still moves.

[krakenslayer]

Yeah, sure, I was just speculating.

It really seems like the ghouls have a very low tolerance for brain injury. How many times do we see them get hit with a gun butt or 2x4 and go down? Whereas Logan hacks one of their brains to shreds and it still moves.

Yeah, that's true. I guess you could explain that away by Logan's careful scalpel-work - "Fifteen hours of fancy surgery" and all that. I guess it's also a trade off between cohesion with the surgery scene (having some zombies not die immediately when shot or bludgeoned in the head) and people going "duuuh, but that one got hit in the head and didn't die, it's a goof!" :lol:

It's a good observation though, never really gave that much thought.

[SRP76]

Why assume the few "partially eaten" people didn't get their heads caved in during the ghoul attacks that killed them? We don't know how they were killed. Tom and Judy got blown up, for instance, and they wound up eaten. Zombies were capable of brick clubbings and whatnot to bring down their meal, too. Or the head could be chewed/torn off completely during the feeding frenzy.

A lot of things could have happened to the victims in the process of getting "partially devoured".

[darth los]

A lot of things could have happened to the victims in the process of getting "partially devoured".

Doncha just love the vaugeness of that term?

It could mean all they ate was the genetalia and we'd have no way to dispute it. :lol:

:cool:

[Rottedfreak]

On the other hand you could say the bodies found and examined were actually ghouls who were dealt with by people who knew what was happening.