Gay/Ghey

[capncnut]

Was listening to the radio this morning and there was an interesting news item regarding the usage of the word 'gay' in UK schools.

As we know 'gay' or 'ghey' (while officially meaning happy) usually refers to homosexuality, becoming popular after Elton John famously said in an interview "I guess I'm a little bit gay". The meaning of the word has blurred since, meaning naff or stupid, so one doesn't have to be bigoted to use the word.

So it surpised me to hear on the news that a child can be suspended for up to two weeks if he/she calls another child 'gay' in the school ground. I have always maintained that such free usage of the word would probably result in trouble, but even I admit this is a bit much.

What do you think?

[SymphonicX]

There are plenty of other terms for "naff" or "stupid" - such as whack, lame, crap, shit, pointlessly fucking rubbish (reserved for GTA4), or turdish, wank, arse, or even stupid and naff...

I know a lot of people who resent the word gay being used negatively - most of them gay themselves. So if they don't like it, I won't call them it and consider it an offensive word.

[AcesandEights]

It's so weird this was posted today, as I was just reading a back and forth between people on different sides of the issue at a different web board I go to for a hobby. It's not a place that I am that comfortable in, so I just steered right around the conversation, but it's amazing the diversity and vehemence of opinion out there on this topic. It's crazy.

Anyway, if the kids in this school are subject to similar penalties for other insults, I think it's okay. Draconian, but okay. But I wonder if this isn't a 'special' case rule, in which case I wouldn't agree with it at all.

[Kaos]

It is using a term that has direct connotations to homosexuals and homosexuality as a pejorative. Irrespective of spelling (because there would be no ghey without gay) it is de facto discrimination in my opinion.

[Tricky]

One of my best mates is unashamedly gay & proud yet he calls rubbish stuff "gay" and calls other people puffs, I guess it comes down to individuals as to whether they take it offensively or not! Saying that he's a gay who hates gays though, he gets really wound up by mincers & says they give him a bad name! Its really getting annoying that you cant say anything without somebody being offended by it though, it wouldnt be so bad if they didnt always get lawyers & courts involved over such things these days!

[Chic Freak]

There are plenty of other terms for "naff" or "stupid" - such as whack, lame, crap, shit, pointlessly fucking rubbish (reserved for GTA4), or turdish, wank, arse, or even stupid and naff...

But wouldn't isn't using the words "lame" or "wanker" be offensive to disabled people or those who masturbate?

[Exatreides]

When my good gay friend stops calling people fags and gays, Is the day I'll stop calling things gay.

So...Probably never.

[Skippy911sc]

That is SO RETARDED!

[Kaos]

That is SO RETARDED!

LOL! The term retarded is one where it has always been a negative word by denotation as well as connotation. The root of the word means slow and it applies to the condition of Downs Syndrome as well as a number of maladies, some of which do definitely affect some of our community.

[MinionZombie]

But wouldn't isn't using the words "lame" or "wanker" be offensive to disabled people or those who masturbate?

Fair point there, Chic.


That is SO RETARDED!

heh - indeed, "retarded" gets used to (same as "ghey") mean "stupid" or "naff" (and not linked to sexuality) ... it can also mean someone who has done something stupid, but isn't mentally handicapped.

In short, the common usage of "ghey" and "retarded" in playgrounds is - in my belief - always removed from sexuality or mental disability.

That said, kids are always gonna be kids, and it's just a way of life at that age that it's all about being in or out of the group by any measure at all. Indeed, because they can really not know the other meanings of the words, they can use the word to exclusively mean "stupid/naff" or "did/said something stupid/something is rubbish".

Kids will grow up eventually anyway, but even still, the words won't be used in an offensive (to homosexuals, or the mentally disabled) unless it is the explicit intention of the user.


One of my best mates is unashamedly gay & proud yet he calls rubbish stuff "gay" and calls other people puffs, I guess it comes down to individuals as to whether they take it offensively or not! Saying that he's a gay who hates gays though, he gets really wound up by mincers & says they give him a bad name! Its really getting annoying that you cant say anything without somebody being offended by it though, it wouldnt be so bad if they didnt always get lawyers & courts involved over such things these days!

Interesting thing about your mate - even within the gay community there is a sense of different 'types' of gay person, or 'tribes' as you could possibly say - those who are overtly gay, those who are butch gay, those who are closetted gay etc.

Also, political correctness has gone too far. It's gone beyond the original (and just) intention, and become a nuisance that has turned everyone into hyper-sensitive ninnies. It's usually people 'outside of a culture' who bleat the loudest though - such as teachers or adults moaning about school children using "ghey" or "retarded", when they're simply not in the same generation, and aren't a part of that social group, so they just don't get the usage, and the social views and rules connected with the usage.

Indeed, with every new generation, we're gaining more and more socially inclusive individuals - people who are less and less discriminatory.

Even still, there's room for things to be said in the right tone and context within various social groups. Always has been, always will be.

[SymphonicX]

But wouldn't isn't using the words "lame" or "wanker" be offensive to disabled people or those who masturbate?

I'll give you lame, fair play....

but not wanker....noooo....that's an insult, plain and simple and can be applied to any group of people, of any age, or any kind...irrespective...

[AcesandEights]

I'll give you lame, fair play....

but not wanker....noooo....that's an insult, plain and simple and can be applied to any group of people, of any age, or any kind...irrespective...

But masturbation is a healthy practice and, for some, a lifestyle choice. I don't know if denigrating it is within the realms of goodness, Citizen SymphonicX. ;)

[MikePizzoff]

Call me PC, but I haven't used the term "gay" to describe something/someone lame in many years. How hard is it to just say lame? Seriously. It's a derogatory word. I don't understand when people think it's not okay to say the n-word, but it's okay to say gay; it's not okay to say either of them! It's a hurtful word and I'm glad these kids are getting in trouble for it - perhaps it'll open their eyes.

[EvilNed]

dude mike ur gay

[thxleo]

Call me PC, but I haven't used the term "gay" to describe something/someone lame in many years. How hard is it to just say lame? Seriously. It's a derogatory word. I don't understand when people think it's not okay to say the n-word, but it's okay to say gay; it's not okay to say either of them! It's a hurtful word and I'm glad these kids are getting in trouble for it - perhaps it'll open their eyes.

Okay, you're PC. Gays certainly don't seem bothered by the term since they use use it and flaunt it very openly. I have a friend that I've known for about 12 years and the guy uses the word gay all the time and is very proud of his "gayness". I make fun of him all the time for it, but it does not bother him in the least.
We are headed towards a society where EVERYTHING is a derogatory word and is hurtful. Political correctness is a disease that is turning people into mind numbed robots, IMHO.

[BillyRay]

Political correctness is a disease that is turning people into mind numbed robots, IMHO.

You can't use the term "Robot", Leo, it's offensive to Mechanical Americans.

:elol:

[darth los]

Call me PC, but I haven't used the term "gay" to describe something/someone lame in many years. How hard is it to just say lame? Seriously. It's a derogatory word. I don't understand when people think it's not okay to say the n-word, but it's okay to say gay; it's not okay to say either of them! It's a hurtful word and I'm glad these kids are getting in trouble for it - perhaps it'll open their eyes.

But mike, first it's the speech police, what's next? Perhaps telling you how to dress because it offends some people.

Maybe i like to use the word gay (which i don't by the way) but when some one tells me i can't do something it makes me want to do it even more.

Gay shall now be my new word. Thnx guys ! :thumbsup:

:cool:

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------


You can't use the term "Robot", Leo, it's offensive to Mechanical Americans.

:elol:

Or the plasma/flesh challenged dude.

:cool:

[thxleo]

You can't use the term "Robot", Leo, it's offensive to Mechanical Americans.

:elol:

Touche...my sincerest apologies to all of the mechanical people of the world.

[SymphonicX]

Touche...my sincerest apologies to all of the mechanical people of the world.

My robot friend read your comments and was really fucking upset thxleo.

Thanks.

He told me to tell you this:

011011011010011010 011010101101011 010101010101111110101 !!!!!

Don't fuck with him next time, he might not let you off so lightly...

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------


Okay, you're PC. Gays certainly don't seem bothered by the term since they use use it and flaunt it very openly. I have a friend that I've known for about 12 years and the guy uses the word gay all the time and is very proud of his "gayness". I make fun of him all the time for it, but it does not bother him in the least.
We are headed towards a society where EVERYTHING is a derogatory word and is hurtful. Political correctness is a disease that is turning people into mind numbed robots, IMHO.

back to serious matters - just because you know gay people who don't mind using the word like that doesn't make it OK. Just the other day a lesbian friend of mine made a point to tell everyone just how hurtful SHE finds it...so not all gay people fit under this all accepting blanket that you've got going on unfortunately...all it's gonna take, is one person at your place of work to be offended, and your whole career can be shot to shit....not good!

Having said that it's all about context and if you use it in the company of your friends and in an accepted context with him then it's not going to be a problem in the first place...

[Chic Freak]

back to serious matters - just because you know gay people who don't mind using the word like that doesn't make it OK. Just the other day a lesbian friend of mine made a point to tell everyone just how hurtful SHE finds it...so not all gay people fit under this all accepting blanket that you've got going on unfortunately...

I agree- perhaps this overused phrase "gay community" gives the vague impression that all LGB peeps are in a sort of club that any member can represent, so if a gay person says "gay" to mean "rubbish" then it must be okay with all the other gays :p

I'm not sure tbh... it's unnecessary to use it, but then it is arguable that the word "gay" now has three meanings, so it's all context-dependent:

1. happy
2. homosexual
3. a bit rubbish/ crap

But then, definition #3 probably wouldn't have arisen if we didn't live in a fairly homophobic/ homosuspicious (word I just invented) society. Hmmmmmz

[thxleo]

My robot friend read your comments and was really fucking upset thxleo.

Thanks.

He told me to tell you this:

011011011010011010 011010101101011 010101010101111110101 !!!!!

Don't fuck with him next time, he might not let you off so lightly...[COLOR="Silver"]



Please send my regards to your robotic "partner". Tell him/her/it that I feel their pain and I apologize. ;)
I hope that wink wasn't too "gay". Oops, sorry again.

[MinionZombie]

I'm not sure tbh... it's unnecessary to use it, but then it is arguable that the word "gay" now has three meanings, so it's all context-dependent:

1. happy
2. homosexual
3. a bit rubbish/ crap

But then, definition #3 probably wouldn't have arisen if we didn't live in a fairly homophobic/ homosuspicious (word I just invented) society. Hmmmmmz

I'm with Chic's bolded text there.

I'm not so sure if we live in a "fairly homophobic" society though. There's homophobia in parts of society, but it's nothing like a few decades ago when you'd have a public information film warning young men of the dangers of gay people (who were painted as not only bad gays, but paedophiles) - indeed, I've seen such public information films when I was gathering Public Domain footage for an educational dvd about sex-related ethics.

So society in general I wouldn't call "fairly homophobic". There are niche pockets of homophobia (some very violent), and plus I think it depends on where you are in the world ... and even where you are within your own country. But generally speaking, as a rule of thumb, I wouldn't say that society can generally be considered in any noticeable measure "homophobic".

I duno ... that's how I view it.

It's daft, because like race, sexual orientation so doesn't matter. Happy people who are good people is all that matters.

[Skippy911sc]

I love the English, only they can make an insult sound nice.

Rubbish... Really???

That's just a load of SHIT!!!

;)

I watch Top Gear on BBC America and love to hear the cast insult each other...they are so polite in doing so.

[darth los]

The flintstones used to have a gay old time as well

Now this makes me wonder just what exactly Fred and Barney were REALLy up to on those bowling/Buffalo Lodge nights? :confused:

:cool:

[MikePizzoff]

Okay, you're PC. Gays certainly don't seem bothered by the term since they use use it and flaunt it very openly. I have a friend that I've known for about 12 years and the guy uses the word gay all the time and is very proud of his "gayness". I make fun of him all the time for it, but it does not bother him in the least.
We are headed towards a society where EVERYTHING is a derogatory word and is hurtful. Political correctness is a disease that is turning people into mind numbed robots, IMHO.

You're making a wrong generalization. I have gay friends, as well. They aren't okay with people using the term "gay" loosely.

Some black people use the n-word. Does that mean ALL black people are okay with the word? And because there are some that are okay with it, does that mean it's okay for people of other races to throw around the word?

Okay, maybe that's a bit much. But that's how I look at it.

[thxleo]

You're making a wrong generalization. I have gay friends, as well. They aren't okay with people using the term "gay" loosely.

Some black people use the n-word. Does that mean ALL black people are okay with the word? And because there are some that are okay with it, does that mean it's okay for people of other races to throw around the word?

Okay, maybe that's a bit much. But that's how I look at it.

Read my first post to you. We are headed to a point where everything is offensive.
And yes, that was a bit much.

[clanglee]

When I was growing up the word "faggot" was tossed around a lot. It was the worst insult you could throw at someone in elementary school. I am still alive and well and have suffered no long term ill effects from hearing or using the word. "Gay" is such a wimpy little word next to that other giant of the vernacular. We are breeding soft and stupid kids that will grow into soft and stupid adults. Horray for the future!!:rolleyes:

[Exatreides]

I...Agree with thxleo.

There's a difference between the word gay, and the word fagot. Just like there's a difference between the word colored and nigger/nigga.

I don't know many blacks that get offended when you ask them to pass the colored pencil. If I asked them to pass the nigger pencil, it might be a different story.

Saying "That place is gay." Has a lot different meaning then.. "Thats a faggy place." Catch my drift?

Do I get offended when people say they got Jewed when I kill them in COD? No, I agree that I just treated them like a palestinian and they should learn there lesson and not try to take my flag. haha.

if they called me a Kike though, well thats a different story.

[SRP76]

Might not matter at all about political correctness. The term could simply be filed under "profanity", which you're not allowed to use in school. At least, you weren't allowed to when I went to school. If I had said "fuck" in class, I would have been on my way to a nice punishment real quick.

No telling how out of control schools are now, though, since I don't attend. Maybe they let kids quote Dice Clay nursery rhymes in the middle of class by now.

[JDFP]

I think there is a proper time and place for most, if not all, words in the English language. It depends on when/how the word is used. Definition and connotation are both equally important for the message sometimes. As a writer, I find this very important. Take for example, if I'm writing a story and a character's life is in danger he isn't going to say: "Oh golly gee, I sure hope I don't get eaten by those zombies! No sir-ee, not me!".

Likewise, I think it's absurd to consider banning words or ideas. Just because you don't like the word or the idea doesn't mean that the idea doesn't carry weight. If one day the word "very" were to become obscene (and it's not as far fetched as it seems, using the word "gay" fifty years ago would have been common and none would have thought twice about it -- before the word was taken and assaulted), would we all start using "double good" like in "1984"?

Even the "N" word has its time and place for proper usage (hear me out, at least in this paragraph, before assaulting me for stating this). Bill Cosby, who I greatly respect, has been vocal in pointing out to young African American men and women who act in certain ways are acting like the "N" word. Cosby uses the word for emphasis in his statement for that very purpose, and it holds a powerful message in thus using it in that particular way and purpose. It is the proper word to use for him to convey said message that he is trying to carry across to people that are acting as an impediment to society -- and his message would not have the same meaning by sugar-coating his words by saying: "You young men and women who act in such a foolish way are acting like the common understanding of the word "yaddashakka"." It doesn't convey the message.

Anyway, I think there is a proper time and place for certain words and the ideas conveyed by the power of the words themselves. Children should be taught the power and importance of words and why (Etymology and Semantics) of the word itself. Banning a word outright or attempting to "Ignore" it because we don't like it only causes more issues in the long run and is promoting the very ignorance we are attempting to avoid by avoiding the specific word in question itself.

j.p.

[MinionZombie]

I love the English, only they can make an insult sound nice.

Rubbish... Really???

That's just a load of SHIT!!!

;)

I watch Top Gear on BBC America and love to hear the cast insult each other...they are so polite in doing so.

Gotta love a bit of Top Gear. There was a whole fuss kicked up after episode 9x01 (when Richard Hammond returned to the show after his big crash) and Clarkson said "Are you now a mental?" ... but like all controversies kicked up by Clarkson saying something, it blew over in no time.

Everybody's too PC these days. To think that Clarkson wouldn't respect those who are really mentally handicapped is just nonsense. You can use a word, including those being discussed in this thread, and not think less of 'whoever is somehow linked to this word in one of the contexts in which it is used' ... if that makes sense.


When I was growing up the word "faggot" was tossed around a lot. It was the worst insult you could throw at someone in elementary school. I am still alive and well and have suffered no long term ill effects from hearing or using the word. "Gay" is such a wimpy little word next to that other giant of the vernacular. We are breeding soft and stupid kids that will grow into soft and stupid adults. Horray for the future!!:rolleyes:

One summer I was working at a garage, I remember some of the guys would say to the other lads "you're such a lesbian" ... but in the context, it was simply "you're such an idiot", and in no way connected to female-on-female love or relationships, let alone sex.

...

Also, just thinking about it - what about when someone says "stop being such a girl"?

[SymphonicX]

I guess what we're gleaming from this is the use of the big C word...

Context!

[MinionZombie]

I guess what we're gleaming from this is the use of the big C word...

Context!
EXACTLY.

Which is why all this bullshit that crops up now and again about banning the use of a particular word is such nonsense, not to mention the very notion of banning a word is just silly ... ... you might even say it was "retarded", even "ghey", to do so.

[SymphonicX]

The fact is, in a school context it might not be appropriate though....

[Chic Freak]

Also, just thinking about it - what about when someone says "stop being such a girl"?

Yeah, I don't like that. Although I do say it sometimes. Argh!

[MinionZombie]

The fact is, in a school context it might not be appropriate though....
Kids say a hell of a lot of vulgar things in school. "Ghey" and "retarded" are the least of a tightly-wound teacher/parent's worries.

[mista_mo]

I hate the word "ghey". Well, okay, I don't hate the word, i just hate people who insist on spelling "gay" as "ghey". Stop it, it is silly.

[SymphonicX]

Kids say a hell of a lot of vulgar things in school. "Ghey" and "retarded" are the least of a tightly-wound teacher/parent's worries.

yeah true, but y'know...it all starts somewhere - more an issue of respect and ruliness than it is an issue of what words are being used...ie: it's a teacher's responsibility to not let kids belittle and cajole each other...

[MinionZombie]

yeah true, but y'know...it all starts somewhere - more an issue of respect and ruliness than it is an issue of what words are being used...ie: it's a teacher's responsibility to not let kids belittle and cajole each other...
But it's also something kids grow out of eventually anyway.

That said, some people will always be twats, regardless of how old they are or what they say.

[SymphonicX]

But it's also something kids grow out of eventually anyway.

That said, some people will always be twats, regardless of how old they are or what they say.

and I am living proof of that..!