NOTLD Revisited

[Gemini]

Just watched this again for the first time in a few years.

Some notes:

Johnny appeared the victim of a broken neck or spinal injury the way he fell on the tombstone (not head trauma) so I don't think there's break of continuity there.

This goes to the other thread, but my favorite quote of all Dead movies, also used so perfectly in a certain White Zombie track:

"It has been established that persons who have recently died have been returning to life and committing acts of murder. Widespread investigation of reports from funeral homes, hospitals and morgues has concluded that the unburied dead are returning to life and are seeking human victims....it's hard for us here to believe what we're reporting to you but it does seem to be a fact."

It's clearly established that the unburied dead rise within minutes (established by radio/tv news and scenes in the movie). This should settle some uncertainty I've read in other threads. Another great quote, once people are deceased they should be drenched in gasoline and burned immediately because "they're just dead flesh, and dangerous"

The Venus probe and subsequent radiation fallout is definitively shown as the reason for the plague. It is only the omission of this theory in subsequent Dead films that make the cause cloudy.

I realized again what I love about these films - the deadly seriousness and apocalyptic fashion Romero treats the genre he created.

People think Land with the butcher zombie using a hatchet is a joke, but Night had more instances of zombies using tools than any of the other films. The rock to take out the car window, rocks to take out the truck's headlights, and most dramatically, the garden spade used to kill, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Land is worthy.

The only weakness, perhaps only seen after several decades of hindsight, is how easily the ghouls are destroyed. The end shows a crack team of sherifs combing through rural areas rather effortlessly. Maybe the manic sprinting zombies of Dawn 04 was a necessary progression to preserve the menace?

In the end this is the best Dead movie, for its simplicity, continuity, and the basic fact that it invented the genre. This is the canon. This is the Dead holy grail. If for no other reason than it's the first.

Thoughts?

[SRP76]

Yay for Night of the Living Dead!:hyper:

I will always like it because it doesn't try to be slick. Here's zombies, here's people who are screwed, and this is what happens. That's all you need. Prime rib and a baked potato is always more satisfying than some platter of 50-colored "gourmet" bullshit that tastes like ass.

Simple is better. Just give us what we want, not what you think we'll accept. All the modern movies try to force-feed us a bunch of unnecessary crap, so they fail.

[Publius]

People think Land with the butcher zombie using a hatchet is a joke, but Night had more instances of zombies using tools than any of the other films. The rock to take out the car window, rocks to take out the truck's headlights, and most dramatically, the garden spade used to kill, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Land is worthy.

Just saw Land for the first time. True, Night does have more tool use than we normally like to think zombies are capable of. But IMHO Land goes far beyond that. If it was just the butcher zombie that'd be one thing. But Big Daddy using a gun, and teaching other zombies how to use guns? That goes way beyond anything in Night, I think.

[Yojimbo]

Just saw Land for the first time. True, Night does have more tool use than we normally like to think zombies are capable of. But IMHO Land goes far beyond that. If it was just the butcher zombie that'd be one thing. But Big Daddy using a gun, and teaching other zombies how to use guns? That goes way beyond anything in Night, I think.
Agreed. None of the ghouls in Night displayed the range of bad acting on screen display of emotions of Big Daddy either, use of tools notwithstanding.

[Precinct13]

The Venus probe and subsequent radiation fallout is definitively shown as the reason for the plague. It is only the omission of this theory in subsequent Dead films that make the cause cloudy.



Always thought it to be speculation. Sure, it could have been the venus probe that caused the dead walking all over the country in Night, but another thing: It's the only possible cause that is even hinted at in the movie. The dead start rising, munching their way to bliss on human flesh, panic abounds, and naturally people are pretty eager to know what the hell could have possibly caused this. The venus probe seems more like the most likely cause people (media, politicians, etc.) could or wanted to communicate at the time of Night rather than the definite cause.

Night is one of my favourite movies ever, had it on tape from a telly showing, and I only recently bought it on DVD. Wish the money went to the right people, copyright issues and all. First time I caught it was somewhere around the mid-90s, and unlike many more effects-laden movies, Night has aged remarkably well. Technically it was rather outdated at the time of its release, I reckon, but the stock music, the black and white images and the perfect pacing make this seem like the movie Hitchcock would have shot had he opted to make "The Ghoulies" instead of "The Birds". It's a pretty timeless movie, as it was never really that much a product of its time, technically at the very least.

I'll go as far as to admit that I wasn't that impressed with Dawn at first. Watched this after Night, and whilst Dawn was the younger of the two, it was Dawn that started to show its age. The make-up effects that were sufficient in an era in which space monsters looked like men in rubber suits rather than Giger's Alien were never that convincing to me. And let's not forget that Dawn is a totally different movie than Night.

Romero himself admits that Night is probably the only "scary movie" he has ever made, and none of the dead movies are as straight-forward, terrifying and ruthless as "Night Of The Living Dead" - despite the lack of gore effects that have long become a stapledom of zombie movies and their fan hordes alike. It's not that Night doesn't have any gore, but when it's there, it's a punch in your face rather than yet another gore fest to tease the crowd with. I'd put it in a line with the very best of American B-movie thrillers, movies like "Assault On Precinct 13" and "The Terminator", movies that thrived within their budget constraints, movies that once they start never let go as they were never allowed to waste a single shot in the first place.

[Gemini]

Just saw Land for the first time. True, Night does have more tool use than we normally like to think zombies are capable of. But IMHO Land goes far beyond that. If it was just the butcher zombie that'd be one thing. But Big Daddy using a gun, and teaching other zombies how to use guns? That goes way beyond anything in Night, I think.

Bub tracked down and executed Rhodes with a pistol in Day.

I think people are averse to the intelligent zombies in Land because of Big Daddy's acting/scripting.

[bassman]

The Venus Probe was just a theory. Not a distinctive cause.

[Mr.G]

I think people are averse to the intelligent zombies in Land because of Big Daddy's acting/scripting.

100% agree. It was the actor/script and not what the zombie did.

[Gemini]

Re: The Venus Probe, I think it was more than just speculation. There was actual recorded proof, as reported in one of the newscasts NASA scientists detected the alien radiation and noted "even as the radiation levels continue to rise.."

Totally agree regarding Night's timelessness and its low budget contributing to it being such a tight, concise film.

And although they used tools, there was not a trace of humanity in the walking dead.

[krakenslayer]

Johnny appeared the victim of a broken neck or spinal injury the way he fell on the tombstone (not head trauma) so I don't think there's break of continuity there.

There's still a slight issue with that: the spinal cord carries all commands from the brain to the body, break that and you cut off all communications from the brain to all body parts below the break. Essentially, this would have the same effect as decapitating the zombie - the head might continue to function, but the body is on its own.

[Publius]

Bub tracked down and executed Rhodes with a pistol in Day.


True, I was just comparing Land to Night, since the standard set in Night was the topic of this thread. Like you say, in Night there was no trace of humanity.


There's still a slight issue with that: the spinal cord carries all commands from the brain to the body, break that and you cut off all communications from the brain to all body parts below the break. Essentially, this would have the same effect as decapitating the zombie - the head might continue to function, but the body is on its own.

From watching Land, I learned that the spinal cord is actually really tough, such that you could sever the neck except for your spinal cord and swing your head around by the spinal cord. :p

[sandrock74]

The Venus Probe was just a theory. Not a distinctive cause.

Right. I think the space probe returning from Venus was merely a coincidence. There was too much panic and confusion going around, so people just latched onto the first unusual event they could find.

[Precinct13]

Re: The Venus Probe, I think it was more than just speculation. There was actual recorded proof, as reported in one of the newscasts NASA scientists detected the alien radiation and noted "even as the radiation levels continue to rise.."


Taken from wiki, for what it's worth.


Radio reports explain that an epidemic of mass murder is sweeping across the eastern seaboard. Later, Ben discovers a television upstairs and the emergency broadcaster reveals that the creatures are consuming the flesh of their victims. A subsequent broadcast reports that the murders are being perpetrated by the recently deceased who have returned to life, dubbed 'ghouls'. Experts, scientists and military are not sure of the cause of the reanimation, but one scientist is certain that it is the result of radioactive contamination from a space probe that exploded in the Earth's atmosphere. A final report instructs that a gunshot or heavy blow to the head will stop the ghouls and that posses of armed men are patrolling the countryside to restore order.

I don't know the newscasts inside-out, but I'll pay attention to this on a subsequent viewing. Never got it that the film explained a "definite cause" myself, though. :)

As for a perceived lack of continuity in the portrayal of the zombies throughout the series - that didn't just start with Land. All of the dead movies, it's like Romero uses his ghouls as a blank canvas for whatever he is trying to portray, and get across to the viewer. One thing that separates him from the rest of the splatter pack, for sure, and another that gets him into trouble with all the zombie movie fans occasionally. Sure, there are his rules - shoot em in the head and they're dead, etc. But that's about the only thing that stays the same in each film. Night is the only film that's playing the entire flesh-eater thing in this deadly-serious way while keeping a straight face from start to finish. Obviously the pack in Land was going to cross the lines for some people, as they're Romero zombies at their most extreme (yet), no matter how they're being portrayed by whatever actor. People are already shaking from reported sights of zombies on horsebacks in Survival. History repeats itself.

I enjoy Land, actually. My biggest gripe with it is that there isn't much of a big pay-off, there are like three sup-plots trying to start rolling, and you are expecting Romero to make his "heroes" wreak complete havok once they reach Fiddler's Green - but there ain't that much, and the movie sort of just fizzles out. It's a bit the same with Diary that asks you the kind of question only a Romero zombie flick can ask you in the end: "Are we worth saving, actually?" Only that what is on screen has little to do with the message the movie sledge hammers into your brain via countless voice overs over its entire course - and instead it's time for Romero's gun-swinging Rednecks to do their thing again, just like in Night and Dawn before: being a symbol for all the d*ckheads on this planet. Such a hippie, the man. :D

[Gemini]

The Wiki excerpts are taken from earlier in the movie….later on (I think right before the power goes out) they describe actual recorded levels of the alien radiation and note that it is “continuing to rise” ….I really think Romero gave an explanation in this movie then deliberately back tracked in the sequels to make the cause more mysterious.

…and on another note…umm… zombies on horseback?? :barf:

[Gemini]

Here's a link to some great trivia about the film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063350/trivia

Regarding the Venus probe:

One of the working titles for this film was "Night of the Flesh Eaters". Originally, the beings attacking the characters were extraterrestrial in origin, either aliens or humans possessed by an alien pathogen, presumably covering a NASA satellite returning from Venus. Eventually, it was decided that the dead would rise and devour the living, presumably due to radiation that was carried by a NASA satellite returning from Venus.


Though the radiation of a detonated satellite returning from Venus is theorized to be the cause of the dead rising and attacking the living, according to the filmmakers, the actual cause is never determined.

And the GAR timeframes:

Assuming the movie takes place on the spring time change (according to the dialog at the beginning) after the date (December 1966) on the calendar in the house (a reasonable assumption from the condition of the body in the house), the movie begins on the night of 30 April 1967 and ends the next morning, which is May Day. However, for the sequels, Romero has treated the timeline of the Dead saga with a bit of malleability; in the movie novelization of Dawn of the Dead he notes "The stock market had plummeted way below the lowest point of the Carter administration" and refers to an upcoming election. Day of the Dead features a copy of the novel Salem's Lot, published in 1975, after Night of the Living Dead came out; it seems peculiar that this publish still saw publication in a world where "ghouls" actually exist. Diary of the Dead takes place isochronally with Night of the Living Dead yet features modern computers. Of course, even Night of the Living Dead references technology far advanced than that available at the time of the film's release (i.e. the Venus probe).

[bassman]

Your number one problem?

Trusting imdb as a credible source. :p

[C5NOTLD]

The Venus Probe was just a theory. Not a distinctive cause.

It was a cause in the original film. Not only was it talked about during the news broadcasts, but also used as the reason in early press releases that went out on the film.

And the Autopsy Of The Dead DVD's interview with Bill Hinzman covers this when he said that they sat around a table trying to come up with a reason for the dead to return and he was the one who suggested the venus probe as the cause which they agreed upon. It was a real NASA probe at the time the film was made - the original newsreel for NASA's Venus Probe is in Autopsy Of The Dead.

No doubt Romero changed his mind and made the cause more mysterious and vague in later films but in NOTLD, it was caused by the venus probe radiation. When you are the boss, you can change your mind. :)

I always liked Dawn's explaination - when there is no more room in hell the dead will walk the earth.


.

[Gemini]

It was a cause in the original film. Not only was it talked about during the news broadcasts, but also used as the reason in early press releases that went out on the film.

And the Autopsy Of The Dead DVD's interview with Bill Hinzman covers this when he said that they sat around a table trying to come up with a reason for the dead to return and he was the one who suggested the venus probe as the cause which they agreed upon. It was a real NASA probe at the time the film was made - the original newsreel for NASA's Venus Probe is in Autopsy Of The Dead.

No doubt Romero changed his mind and made the cause more mysterious and vague in later films but in NOTLD, it was caused by the venus probe radiation. When you are the boss, you can change your mind. :)

I always liked Dawn's explaination - when there is no more room in hell the dead will walk the earth.


.

Exactly.

GAR tried to take it back.

But the explanation was already out.

[bassman]

Hinzman can say whatever he wants, but it's not definite in the film. It's mentioned as a possibility, but never stated as concrete information.

Besides....Hinzman also thought Night30 was a good idea.:p

[EvilNed]

Hinzman seems to be the kind of person who takes credit for pretty much everything. I saw an interview with him where he claims he told George to shoot this and shoot this so it'd work in the editing room. For some reason, I can't help but think his memories are taking him on a bit of a ride.

Then again, he was there, I wasn't. But I still don't trust him.

[Precinct13]

It was a cause in the original film. Not only was it talked about during the news broadcasts, but also used as the reason in early press releases that went out on the film.



Never heard about those, and as such I'm just staying with what I'm filtering through the actual movie - which never bothers to pinpoint to an actual definite cause, as far as I'm concerned. It's not a biggie anway, and not something to start a fight about or anything - that Romero keeps his cause hidden behind his super-size glasses is hardly the number 1 cause that I'm attracted to the Dead films. And likely not yours or anybody elses.

[Trin]

The Venus probe and subsequent radiation fallout is definitively shown as the reason for the plague. It is only the omission of this theory in subsequent Dead films that make the cause cloudy.I would say "definitely stated" as the cause is more accurate. Shown implies proof that the movie viewers see. Night doesn't give us proof. Night gives us a newscaster attempting to assign cause to a rapidly developing story with barely a quote from a scientist to back up the assertion.

The omission in later movies is not really a contradiction in my mind. It could just be that they all knew about it, accepted it, and didn't bother talking about it.


I realized again what I love about these films - the deadly seriousness and apocalyptic fashion Romero treats the genre he created.That is fantastic.


People think Land with the butcher zombie using a hatchet is a joke, but Night had more instances of zombies using tools than any of the other films. The rock to take out the car window, rocks to take out the truck's headlights, and most dramatically, the garden spade used to kill, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Land is worthy.
The anti-intelligent zombie crowd is only one anti-Land faction. I, for one, am not particularly anti-intelligent-zombie, nor am I particularly anti-Big-Daddy. I used to be - but several pro-Land debaters on these forums showed me that the intelligent zombie angle wasn't that objectionable. For me, the plot holes killed Land. And bad plot makes a Dead movie unworthy.


The only weakness, perhaps only seen after several decades of hindsight, is how easily the ghouls are destroyed. The end shows a crack team of sherifs combing through rural areas rather effortlessly. Maybe the manic sprinting zombies of Dawn 04 was a necessary progression to preserve the menace?
Looking at it as Night alone - prior to Dawn/Day - they never meant to paint the menace as apocalyptic. It was one night, one small area, cleaned up by morning. It made sense.

But the interesting part is that Dawn did such a good job showing how the fall of everything could follow on the heels of the rural town handling the problem. Showing the urban areas overrun in the first scenes was just brilliant in how it integrated as an extension of the events of Night, without contradicting them.

Day picked up nicely. They were in a better situation, but still were low on food, ammo, etc.

Land... well, again, here's where things make less sense. I didn't see much menace left from the zombies, with Dead Reckoning rolling through towns and nothing outside the walled city but empty streets.


In the end this is the best Dead movie, for its simplicity, continuity, and the basic fact that it invented the genre. This is the canon. This is the Dead holy grail. If for no other reason than it's the first.
That's just really hard to argue against. :)

[C5NOTLD]

Hinzman seems to be the kind of person who takes credit for pretty much everything. I saw an interview with him where he claims he told George to shoot this and shoot this so it'd work in the editing room. For some reason, I can't help but think his memories are taking him on a bit of a ride.

Then again, he was there, I wasn't. But I still don't trust him.

His memories are actually very good and detailed - such as which camera was used for which film/portion of the film,etc. Working as Romero's DP on The Crazies, I could easily see him offering shots. That is part of the DP's job and they were very close friends (Romero was his best man at his wedding). Hinzman's definitely not afraid to say I don't know or I don't remember. And one remarkable aspect of The Latent Image years besides the high level of talent was how much teamwork was involved among the members. The teamwork on NOTLD was extraordinary and is one of the primary reasons it turned out the way it did in addition to Romero's editing skill. Most independent filmmakers today could really learn a lesson from teamwork like that.

So for him to be offering suggestions is very conceivable. Let's face it, the lighting supervisor on NOTLD suggested the music box shot, which had always been assumed was designed by Romero. So suggestions were flying around the set which is why it was such a great creative atmosphere to be a part of. And why we have such a special film to enjoy 40+ yrs later.



.

[DubiousComforts]

The Venus Probe is the best, most likely explanation for the dead rising in NIGHT. This type of space exploration was a current event in the mid-60s, and while it's not shown to be the definitive proven cause, it is far more than just "speculation" or "coincidence" if you're keen on going by what's shown in the film. It's also absolutely the only theory advanced in the story.

According to Chuck Craig who wrote the actual news reports, there were no alternative explanations filmed, as has been claimed by both Romero and Russo to have been excised by the distributor after the fact. The final TV news report even mentions the radiation levels "increasing" as a means to show the protagonist's situation becoming more bleak.

The real reason the film doesn't establish the Venus Probe as the definitive cause for the phenomenon is to demonstrate the ineptitude of the authorities and news media who can't seem to agree on anything. It was only years later that the filmmakers began downplaying the radiation angle; they didn't seem to appreciate that the entire premise of their work (now being touted as a "horror classic") rested on a bad B-movie sci-fi plot.

Regarding Bill Hinzman "taking credit for everything," nothing can be further from the truth. His exact comments regarding NIGHT: "It all boils down to just one person and that's George Romero. He's the nerve center of that film. A lot of us contributed, but it took him to put it together and you can't deny him that."

[Wyldwraith]

Re: The Venus Probe: Agree that it was definitively stated as cause, but the fact that the remainder of the franchise stuck doggedly to "the cause is a mystery" doesn't "cloud" the issue, it highlights the direction/intent of continuity in GAR's mind.

After all, look at Day. A movie whose basic premise was a bunch of holed-up eggheads trying to get a handle on the Undead Phenomena. If the acknowledging of the Radiation Cause was so widespread as to be beyond any discussion by researchers working on this problem, why no research directed towards the creation of decontamination procedures? (For one thing.)

Re: Land/Tool Use/Intelligent Zombies: The problem (at least for me) is not that GAR decided to, and then implemented a franchise-wide trend that depicts the "evolution" of intelligent zombies. The problem is the piss-poor implementation of this plot element. Bub was a great starting point, and had GAR continued in that vein I think Land might've turned out much better.

Unfortunately, rather than wrack his brain for ways to showcase how this gradual increase in zombie intelligence, Romero took the easy way out and tried to make Big Daddy a sympathetic character/symbol of the disenfranchised masses pushed beyond reason. To pull this off (in however half-assed a manner), Romero leaped FAR beyond the simple and direct basic reasoning that gave Bub such appeal/made him such a fascinating character, and chose to focus on never before depicted levels of zombie skill, focus and adaptation.

So very much more I could say about this, but don't want to launch yet another condemnation of the Navy Seal Zombie Horde's stealthy crossing of the undefended river.

[Gemini]

The final TV news report even mentions the radiation levels "increasing" as a means to show the protagonist's situation becoming more bleak.

The real reason the film doesn't establish the Venus Probe as the definitive cause for the phenomenon is to demonstrate the ineptitude of the authorities and news media who can't seem to agree on anything. It was only years later that the filmmakers began downplaying the radiation angle; they didn't seem to appreciate that the entire premise of their work (now being touted as a "horror classic") rested on a bad B-movie sci-fi plot.



Agree 100%. The explanation for the outbreak was given at the time Romero conceived the first Dead film. The question is, as fans, do we lean on the initial explanation or buy into Romero's subsequent and intentional clouding of the issue?

[Phenia Films]

REVISTED: EVANS CITY CEMETERY
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff202/joebarbarisi/FLOWERS%20for%20the%20DEAD/evanscity1800s.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff202/joebarbarisi/FLOWERS%20for%20the%20DEAD/ECCJBBW.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff202/joebarbarisi/FLOWERS%20for%20the%20DEAD/ECCBW2JB.jpg

[Dave_Dunwoody]

Looking forward to visiting the cemetery for the first time this September.

[DubiousComforts]

Looking forward to visiting the cemetery for the first time this September.
Why not visit in October instead when you'll also be able to attend The Living Dead Festival (http://thelivingdeadfest.com) and visit all the filming locations instead of just the cemetery?

[EvilNed]

I think I'll have to take back my comments on Hinzman. I trust you guys are better versed in that subject than I am, and I must've just got the wrong idea. It must be the Zombie Nosh talking, and I apologize!

[Dave_Dunwoody]

Why not visit in October instead when you'll also be able to attend The Living Dead Festival (http://thelivingdeadfest.com) and visit all the filming locations instead of just the cemetery?

I wish I could make it out there around Halloween. I will be visiting for Horror Realm (http://horrorrealmcon.com/), though, and I'm gonna try to check out a few locations while I'm there.

[Trin]

Agree 100%. The explanation for the outbreak was given at the time Romero conceived the first Dead film. The question is, as fans, do we lean on the initial explanation or buy into Romero's subsequent and intentional clouding of the issue?I'm not sure I understand what you mean by intentional clouding? What makes you think the Venus Probe explanation is cast aside in the later movies?

[darth los]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by intentional clouding? What makes you think the Venus Probe explanation is cast aside in the later movies?

What makes you think it wasn't? It was never even hinted at again. And even in the film it's only speculated that it's the cause.

I agree that it was implied that was the cause but the outbreak was in it's first stages and that explanation was as good as any at the time. It was also described as affecting only the eastern seaboard and we know from subsequent films that's not he case. So anything that was said in the first film is subject to change because as we all know GAr didn't have his ghoul "rules" set in stone yet.

Also, he tried his darndest to obfuscate the issue in the following films implying just as hard in DAwn that there was some mystical cause for it and then in day that it was more viral/scientific.

:cool:

[Gemini]

It was also described as affecting only the eastern seaboard and we know from subsequent films that's not he case.

:cool:

The radiation fallout very well may have started along the eastern seaboard before spreading

[sandrock74]

If the probe was destroyed in the atmosphere (as opposed to NASA allowing it to impact on the ground somewhere), it was most likely done over the Atlantic Ocean, which would make the eastern seaboard of the U.S. and the western coast of Africa to be the first areas affected. It would spread out from there due to the earths rotation and weather patterns.

[Gemini]

If the probe was destroyed in the atmosphere (as opposed to NASA allowing it to impact on the ground somewhere), it was most likely done over the Atlantic Ocean, which would make the eastern seaboard of the U.S. and the western coast of Africa to be the first areas affected. It would spread out from there due to the earths rotation and weather patterns.

Right on.

Although Romero never specifically implies an inter-continental plague....I guess we just assume it's a global apocalypse?

[darth los]

The radiation fallout very well may have started along the eastern seaboard before spreading

It very well might have.


Just watched this again for the first time in a few years.

In the end this is the best Dead movie, for its simplicity, continuity, and the basic fact that it invented the genre. This is the canon. This is the Dead holy grail. If for no other reason than it's the first.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't call anything in NOTLD canon, There are countless things that happen and are said in that film that either don't apply or are contradicted in later films.

:cool:

[Gemini]

I wouldn't call anything in NOTLD canon, There are countless things that happen and are said in that film that either don't apply or are contradicted in later films.

:cool:

That's your take.

My take is that NOTLD supercedes every other sequel because it came first, and was arguably the tightest/most consistent of the films.

[darth los]

That's your take.

My take is that NOTLD supercedes every other sequel because it came first, and was arguably the tightest/most consistent of the films.


You're right in a way. Atleast the presence of jogging zombies makes into the sequel. So i guess there is consistency there.

:cool:

[Trin]

What makes you think it wasn't? It was never even hinted at again. And even in the film it's only speculated that it's the cause.

To be clouded I'd like to see something contradictory. While you are right that it's never hinted at again, neither is it refuted, nor is any alternative ever suggested.


Also, he tried his darndest to obfuscate the issue in the following films implying just as hard in DAwn that there was some mystical cause for it ...
I don't consider "When there's no more room in Hell..." an alternative scientific explanation. It's religious conjecture. It delves more into the metaphysical "why" of it than the more concrete "what" is happening.


...and then in day that it was more viral/scientific.
Day put forth no scientific explanation of cause. The closest they came to discussing the "why" of it was John's bossman speech, which again was religious conjecture.

I figure you can look at it one of two ways.
(1) They never refuted the Venus Probe radiation thing because it was good enough for a bunch of horror movies.
(2) When you try to come up with a plausible explanation to cover the reanimation and the bites it's near impossible, so they chose to ignore the whole mess.

[darth los]

To be clouded I'd like to see something contradictory. While you are right that it's never hinted at again, neither is it refuted, nor is any alternative ever suggested.


I don't consider "When there's no more room in Hell..." an alternative scientific explanation. It's religious conjecture. It delves more into the metaphysical "why" of it than the more concrete "what" is happening.


Day put forth no scientific explanation of cause. The closest they came to discussing the "why" of it was John's bossman speech, which again was religious conjecture.

I figure you can look at it one of two ways.
(1) They never refuted the Venus Probe radiation thing because it was good enough for a bunch of horror movies.
(2) When you try to come up with a plausible explanation to cover the reanimation and the bites it's near impossible, so they chose to ignore the whole mess.


Good points. However, my point from earlier in the thread has yet to be refuted. The Venus Probe is NOT the cause of the plaugue. It's only a bunch of speculation in the film pertaining to why was the president having space experts convened along with his Joint Chiefs.

They "speculated" that it could have something to do with the recent Venus space probe witch started back to earth but never got here. This was discussed but never proven to be the concrete cause.

Fast forward to about 57 minutes and see for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBc18J5cUcs

:cool:

[DubiousComforts]

It's only a bunch of speculation
While never proven to be the definitive cause, it is clearly more than just "speculation." For every example in the news reports that supports mere "speculation" and "coincidence," there is another instance that supports a "definite connection."

[Rancid Carcass]

After doing a little research, I’ve reached a conclusion that the radiation theory cannot be the actual cause of resurrection. Basically, and if I’ve understood it correctly, cosmic radiation is absorbed by the Earths atmosphere and only two particles of this radiation can penetrate it. One decays after only a few metres the other can penetrate the Earths surface by up to 700ft, but this has been happening all day every day since the Earth was formed and forms a natural part of our background radiation, so presumably if it were capable of resurrecting the dead it would’ve been doing it continually since humans first evolved, which clearly it hadn’t.
The other problem with the radiation theory is that once the authorities have identified the radiation as the source of the outbreak they could simply(ish) construct lots of lead lined buildings, convert hospital wards and morgues so that the terminally ill and the 'about to die’/recently deceased are shielded against it and don’t resurrect. If you can do that early enough then you’ve got at least some control over the situation and ceases to be an apocalyptic event, or make it less likely to be.
The thing I love about George’s films is that they weren’t able to pinpoint what was causing the dead to rise, so they had no way of stopping it - that is a truly frightening prospect. The shit is hitting the fan and there’s nothing you can do about it.

[JDFP]

After doing a little research, I’ve reached a conclusion that the radiation theory cannot be the actual cause of resurrection. Basically, and if I’ve understood it correctly, cosmic radiation is absorbed by the Earths atmosphere and only two particles of this radiation can penetrate it. One decays after only a few metres the other can penetrate the Earths surface by up to 700ft, but this has been happening all day every day since the Earth was formed and forms a natural part of our background radiation, so presumably if it were capable of resurrecting the dead it would’ve been doing it continually since humans first evolved, which clearly it hadn’t.
The other problem with the radiation theory is that once the authorities have identified the radiation as the source of the outbreak they could simply(ish) construct lots of lead lined buildings, convert hospital wards and morgues so that the terminally ill and the 'about to die’/recently deceased are shielded against it and don’t resurrect. If you can do that early enough then you’ve got at least some control over the situation and ceases to be an apocalyptic event, or make it less likely to be.
The thing I love about George’s films is that they weren’t able to pinpoint what was causing the dead to rise, so they had no way of stopping it - that is a truly frightening prospect. The shit is hitting the fan and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Interesting thoughts on the radiation topic.

However, do you know how many "Lots" of lead-lined buildings they would have to build for this to be a feasible task, and do you know how much manpower this would require to even be potentially feasible? Not realistic. Probably the best "option" for confronting such a thing would be lining up a few thousand people in a row with guns and just having them walk straight-across fields/towns to shoot all the ghouls and kill them all (this is actually what happened, in so many ways, in "World War Z"). It's just not terribly feasible to attempt to re-take land/structures and destroy the ghouls unless the size of your force (expanding outward) is exponentially increasing at the rate of distance you traverse.

I always liked the idea of building a huge fortification (say the size of the state of Montana or so) and having the borders of the area guarded by Soviet-like walls, fences, etc. to completely block it off from entry. From this fortification you could slowly expand further and further outward to gain more territory. As you expand outwards you are also adding other survivors/survival groups to your rank so that the algebraic equation of people per defense of square area will continue to equalize as the group expands further outward (I'm sure there's an algebraic formula for what I'm saying). If you're in a world where you only become infected by a bite, this would probably be the easiest method of re-taking land/towns, etc. If you're in a world where anyone can become a ghoul by simply dying it makes it more difficult (but still possible). If you're in a world where ghouls have superhuman strength and sprinting ability you're pretty much screwed regardless -- in that case you hunker down and wait on the infected to die off.

j.p.

[Trin]

Good points. However, my point from earlier in the thread has yet to be refuted. The Venus Probe is NOT the cause of the plaugue. It's only a bunch of speculation in the film pertaining to why was the president having space experts convened along with his Joint Chiefs.

They "speculated" that it could have something to do with the recent Venus space probe witch started back to earth but never got here. This was discussed but never proven to be the concrete cause.
Yeah, I agree. I think the authorities believed it, but as viewers we were never shown proof. And no one in any of the movies ever stated support for the theory.


...to why was the president having space experts convened along with his Joint Chiefs.
This explains why in Day the scientist that died before the events we see (remember Rhodes said the scientists had lost one man) was a cosmic radiation specialist, as we all know. :clown:

@rancid - The entire radiation theory assumes a kind of radiation earth has not been subjected to previously. Your arguments only support why the earth has not experienced the phenomenon so far. Radiation, as a scientific phenomenon, has all the necessary properties to account for reanimation. It can travel through solid objects. It carries energy that could account for the fuel source for the dead bodies. It has demonstrated effects on tissues. It cna permeate large areas from space. The fact that we haven't witnessed this particular kind of radiation is not relevant.

But, really, no one knows and GAR never explains it. For all we know the magnetic field of the earth is the only thing keeping dead bodies dead. And maybe the venus probe jacked with the magnetic field and all of a sudden every dead creature suddenly woke up.

[darth los]

It's just frightening that the best and brightest minds of our day couldn't explain the cause in GAr's films. One thing that's scarier than the ghouls is the unknown.

Mankind has always been uncomfortable with phenomena they cannot explain.

When there were lightning bolts in the sky, it was because Zeus was hurling them down from Mt. Olympus. When their crops wouldn't grow due to lack of rain it was because the Gods were angry and needed to be appeased.

My point being that in addition to the horror of the dead walking, the "why" behind must have been just as crippling to society, particulaurly on religious grounds.

:cool:

[Epidemic79]

But, really, no one knows and GAR never explains it. For all we know the magnetic field of the earth is the only thing keeping dead bodies dead. And maybe the venus probe jacked with the magnetic field and all of a sudden every dead creature suddenly woke up.

Fantastic theory/explanation!!! Actually something that I had never thought of before. Impressive.

Well Venus Probe or not,I have always enjoyed how he left it wide open for speculation,and how the Why is Not the imporatant issue. Its just happening.

As for George and his elusive & confusing timeline. You can take as it is,up in the air in order to span the huge time gaps between his movies. Or if you want to be amitious with it you can attempt to take it literally,altho still flawed.

To color in the 10 odd year gap between NIGHT and DAWN,we could speculate that the begining of the outbreak was indeed in '68,it was at least sorta contained,as is hinted at in the end of NotLD. Possibly parts of the eastern US were reclaimed,but maybe the cause (Venus radiation or not),never went away and the past decade had been spent fruitlessly trying to figure it out or "cure" the problem. Then maybe it resurges or has simply just plain built up so massive that its spilling over onto the whole world?

-Begin DAWN '78,its in full blown epidemic,eveything is now collapsing and people are now begining to brake and run. You know the plot of the movie.

-Enter DAY circa '85; Were all familiar with the movie's scenario Im sure so I dont have to elaborate. We know the shit has already hit the fan & dried stuck to it! The Dead have taken over at least most of north America and number somewhere in the Millions.

-LAND sprouts up (like it or not)-circa early 21st century,Civilization as we knew it is just a memory. Only small isolated pockets of survivors here & there every so many hundreds of miles remain. The dead have been reanimating for almost 40 years now. They have been active for so long that most of them have literally rotted away,which would explain there lack of numbers in this flick.

Just my theory for better continuity & enjoyment. NIGHT is still my all time favorite & will never be dethroned.:D