Who said these bastards were rehabilitated (Bulger murder)

[Tricky]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/James-Bulger-Killer-Jon-Venables-Returned-To-Prison-For-Breaching-Terms-Of-Release/Article/201003115565609?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15565609_James_Bulger_Killer_Jon_Venab les_Returned_To_Prison_For_Breaching_Terms_Of_Rele ase

Good riddance, he's back where he belongs & I hope he doesnt get a second chance at freedom, I wonder if they will reveal details of why he's back in jail? :confused:

[Ghost Of War]

I very much doubt it. They've been protected for 17 years already, surely the Justice system won't admit that they were wrong to release these little evil cunts. I remember being in interviewed by Radio City (Liverpool's local radio station) when it was announced they were to be released, and I was spitting mad down the microphone. The woman from the radio told me that she had very little to use in her report because of the language and threats from people angry at the decision. This is just going to open up the debate as to why they were released in the first place.

[SymphonicX]

This is a very tough issue to fully look at objectively.
The general consensus is that the 8 years they served was simply not enough. In terms of sending out a strong message, I agree - it wasn't nearly enough.
However the key is always going back to the parents of the killers...who should have been jailed too. Venable's (I think) parents were nightmares, and the kid was f**ked long before he got his hands on Bulger.
But looking at this from a non-emotional perspective - is anyone surprised he has reoffended? We don't know the truth behind his reincarceration, apparently he broke the terms of his parole - it could have been anything from leaving a certain area, spending time with someone younger than him, who knows what the conditions were? it could have been innocent, it could have been yet another attempt at taking a life - we just don't know.

This also means we can't comment on his "rehabilitation". The kid was in prison from age 11, this experience is bound to have warped him completely - the real issue for me is, what are we doing with these f**ked up kids when they are sent down? Do any of you really believe that the current prison system is at all set up for teaching people a lesson? Or does it stick f**ked up people in with more f**ked up people who influence them over long periods of time only to produce people in a worse mental state than when they went in?

the problem is, with a crime like this it's so easy to get emotional about it. Of course the situation is tragic but we as a society tend to analyse this in a cold, darkhearted manner that really amounts to nothing more than "hang them" or "lock them up and throw away the key". Neither of these are solutions, but instead gut reactions to the problem. The law has to stay objective.

And we as a society need to give a clear message to the UK government about how we really want to see people reformed. Either that or we just hang everyone. Another issue is that we are so quick to judge from our armchairs with only 10% of the truth in our minds. The prison system does NOT work, and the justice system barely incentivises a person to go straight. We need to look at how to essentially brainwash these f**ked up people to be normal, fully functioning adults without making them worse by sticking them in with people who have been f**ked up for years.

Of course it's easy to accuse this post of pandering to the victim mentality of criminals. But when you look at kids who have literally no sense of respect or empathy, you've GOT to ask yourself who was denying them those elements throughout their lives. Sure people have to take responsibility for their actions. An 11 year old boy tho? Christ when I was 11 I wanted to shoot a hole in a gas storage tank to see it explode (it would have taken out about 5/6 houses and the people in them). And I'm a normal bloke who's never committed a (bad) crime in my LIFE. Kids can go off the rails at the flick of a switch and historically it's ALWAYS been down to the parents to instill a sense of shame, respect, fear, empathy and love for their parent's rules.

Without those things kids go crazy and killers like this are born. So then we punish the kid, leave the parents outside to breed even more horrible little shits and thusly expect the original kid to magically be reformed after spending 8 years living next to kids just as f**ked up as him!? Not practical.

And FYI, my friend stopped me from blowing up the gas tank - a fine example of how influences from peer groups profoundly affect the outcome of a situation.

Still, they and their parents should have been jailed for a long, long time. However the kids should have received intensive psychological treatment and turned into a productive member of society.

[capncnut]

The other one is apparently a top earning clothes designer with a missus and kid of his own. This dude who just got arrested is a paranoid schizo, who cries all day, has never had a proper relationship, is alcoholic, and looks over his shoulder day and night.

Let's see what he did. I reckon he got rat-arsed and tried to contact the Bulger family, which would breach his bail conditions.

[Tricky]

They both should have swung for what they did, no cost to society & no chance of reoffending, theres people around the world who grow up in far worse conditions than those two did who havent used it as an excuse for murder. However they've molded the other one into a supposedly decent person, doesnt change the fact he tortured a 2 year old defenceless baby to death for fun :mad:
Word on the radio this morning is that Venables got into a fight at work which has put him back in jail, but thats just rumour

[Dtothe3]

I think SymphonicX nailed the point entirely.

[Tricky]

Im sure venables 8 years incarceration must have been hell for him, I mean having a dirtbike to ride around the extensive grounds of his secure unit must have been torture for the poor lamb, and all that access to a gym, free holidays to wales & the lake district, trips to old trafford with his father to watch Manchester united playing , a better education than most normal kids get, his own room decked out with a playstation, TV, manchester united wallpaper, videos, dvd's etc etc must have been absolute hell. Not to mention the cost to the taxpayer which probably runs into millions gagging the press, giving him a new identity, protecting him & monitoring his safety around the clock..
Thats not punishment, thats basically rewarding him for what he did to that poor child, giving him priviledges that your average kid could only dream of & that James Bulger never got to grow up & experience.
If a wild dog attacks a child it is instantly put down, not given treats for the rest of its life. Venables & Thompson should have been treated no differently in my opinion. Sorry if that sounds harsh

[Ghost Of War]

Doesn't sound harsh to me at all. I'm having a discussion about this on another forum, with people mainly from Liverpool, and the general consensus is the same. Apart from the usual left-wing do gooders, who are basically saying that they were too young to know what they were doing, they didn't understand that what they were doing was bad, etc. Bollocks to that. They tried to take another kid the same day, they knew what they were doing, it was premeditated, and they tried to cover it up by leaving him on the train tracks for a train to run over him. They should either still be in prison, or like you said, swing. The parents should also be punished, IMO.

I enjoy reading your posts, Tricky. You seem to have the same views as me on some things.

[capncnut]

An anonymous caller phoned LBC radio this afternoon and said Jon Venables was nicked after getting mashed and decking someone in a pub. Was found with drugs on him too apparently.

[Tricky]

An anonymous caller phoned LBC radio this afternoon and said Jon Venables was nicked after getting mashed and decking someone in a pub. Was found with drugs on him too apparently.


The rehab program really worked there then! I feel desperately sorry for James Bulgers mum who quite clearly feels those two little bastards were never properly punished :(

[capncnut]

The rehab program really worked there then! I feel desperately sorry for James Bulgers mum who quite clearly feels those two little bastards were never properly punished :(
Well, not to worry Trickster, me ol' China. Venables has been rumbled in prison. :lol:

Article 1 (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2879536/Bulger-killer-cover-blown.html)
Article 2 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7372603/Jon-Venables-returned-to-Liverpool-for-drug-fuelled-nights-out.html)

Not that I should laugh. After all, they'll only move him into a nice tidy solo cell under constant watch, where he can surf the net and play Mass Effect 2 at my fucking expense.

[SymphonicX]

Again more thought is given to the justice system's weakness and as a result we're all up for punishing kids again?? How is it the criminal's fault what luxuries they get in prison? That's entirely the fault of this country and the outlook on criminality and rehabilitation - so what are we suggesting here, kill the kids out of a notion of revenge because they'd get an easier life in prison? That's absurd!!!!!!!!

Turns out it might have been a child pr0n offence - which is simply going to draw more criticism and condemnation for him....I say, let's have a look at the system, society and infrastructure that both put them there one way or another and is supposed to be sorting him out. It hasn't worked, it DOESN'T work but a solution to that motivated by nothing more than petty vengeance and spite will just throw us further back into the dark ages.
And we're supposed to be the moral compass against extremism!

[Chic Freak]

The law has to stay objective.

Yes, but it depends what you think the purpose of prison should be. It sounds like a stupid question but think about it: what do you think prison should be for?

Atm I believe it should be for:

1. Protecting the people outside the prison from the people inside the prison.
2. Rehabilitating criminals, when this does not prevent objective #1.
3. Acting as a deterrent for potential criminals, when this does not prevent objective #2 (i.e. don't make it so dreadful that people are worse when they leave than they were when they arrived).
4. Punishing criminals, also when this does not prevent objective #2.

What does everyone else think?

Re: Telegraph article- he has "become prone to violent outbursts of temper"?? Are they kidding???

Apparently he got sent back for some sort of sexual violence (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152433091). Lovely.

[SymphonicX]

Yes, but it depends what you think the purpose of prison should be. It sounds like a stupid question but think about it: what do you think prison should be for?

Atm I believe it should be for:

1. Protecting the people outside the prison from the people inside the prison.
2. Rehabilitating criminals, when this does not prevent objective #1.
3. Acting as a deterrent for potential criminals, when this does not prevent objective #2 (i.e. don't make it so dreadful that people are worse when they leave than they were when they arrived).
4. Punishing criminals, also when this does not prevent objective #2.

What does everyone else think?

Re: Telegraph article- he has "become prone to violent outbursts of temper"?? Are they kidding???

Apparently he got sent back for some sort of sexual violence (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152433091). Lovely.


Through all the near comedic pitchfork brandishing simpson-esque lynchmobs banding around, I think that's the most prevalent question in all of this.

What IS the justice system for? Reading certain posts here you'd only believe it to be a form of relief for victims, at best...at worst it's just a system set up for (as I said before) petty revenge. I mean if you look at it from afar it's plainly obvious to see that people's perception on how this system should be run is essentially based on "eye for an eye" in a lot of cases.

Its a hard question to answer.

All I can say about this and particularly the reaction to the boys in Eddlington (attempted murder case), is that people's instant comdemnation and cries to kill 10 and 11 year old kids is fucking sickening...why? Because you're fucking adults calling for the death of a little boy.

They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty. And the argument that there are plenty of other kids who've grown up similarly yet didn't kill other kids is moot as different people, different brains, different situations are never ever ever comparable in any sense. It's a chemical timebomb waiting to go off and can be flicked easier in some than others - but to write off these kids as "evil" is so archaic, and blindsided.

The truth is, and as Will Self said on Question Time last week, it's far easier for people to believe that these kids are sitting there with devil's horns, scheming for the destruction of humanity than it is for us to realise the uncomfortable truth....

[Tricky]

They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty. ....

Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim. Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death. Why keep making excuses for them? Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that. Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety! The system clearly hasnt worked, & I think the whole way those two were dealt with has been a big experiment by successive governments & the justice system who are now shitting themselves because its failed, hence all the secrecy around it.

Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion, I think those two should both have been given a lethal jab as soon as they were convicted. Im not talking about beating them to death or making them swing or whatever out of vengeful spite, just quickly & quietly removing two dangerous individuals from society permanently. Last time I checked there was a 0% chance of re-offending among executed murderers. I dont understand people who say "society is supposed to have evolved" or "if we did that we're going back to the dark ages", do they think we live in some peaceful hippy utopia where bad things never happen & that we're all trendy modern thinkers?
If there is ever another case like this which I expect at some point in the future there will be unfortunately, it would be extremely stupid & naive of the justice system to employ the same brand of justice as they have with Thompson & Venables.

[capncnut]

If this has got anything to do with child abuse then Venables automatically loses his right to anonymity and gets a trial under his own name in my opinion. And no segregation in prison either. Haven't we paid enough for this walking turd to be hidden away like some great shame?

And I wonder where those rumours of him starting a fight came from. Now the old bill are sending out lies and false reports to protect this piece of filth. :mad:

[SymphonicX]

Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim. Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death. Why keep making excuses for them? Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that. Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety! The system clearly hasnt worked, & I think the whole way those two were dealt with has been a big experiment by successive governments & the justice system who are now shitting themselves because its failed, hence all the secrecy around it.

Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion, I think those two should both have been given a lethal jab as soon as they were convicted. Im not talking about beating them to death or making them swing or whatever out of vengeful spite, just quickly & quietly removing two dangerous individuals from society permanently. Last time I checked there was a 0% chance of re-offending among executed murderers. I dont understand people who say "society is supposed to have evolved" or "if we did that we're going back to the dark ages", do they think we live in some peaceful hippy utopia where bad things never happen & that we're all trendy modern thinkers?
If there is ever another case like this which I expect at some point in the future there will be unfortunately, it would be extremely stupid & naive of the justice system to employ the same brand of justice as they have with Thompson & Venables.

Well I've said my piece. I think you're so far off the mark on this one that you're bordering into absurdity. It's cool though, I still love ya :) Bottom line is everything I've said and I still hold the opinion that calling for the death of a 10 year old boy (even "peacefully" as you put it) is nothing short of sick.

[Legion2213]

Who said these bastards were rehabilitated

The bleeding hearts, the liberals, the human rightists, the guardianista-chatterati...i.e the usual bunch of do-gooder dick heads.

[Tricky]

Well I've said my piece. I think you're so far off the mark on this one that you're bordering into absurdity. It's cool though, I still love ya :) Bottom line is everything I've said and I still hold the opinion that calling for the death of a 10 year old boy (even "peacefully" as you put it) is nothing short of sick.

So what would your suggestion have been to punish them for what they did, just say hypothetically you were in charge of their punishment back in '93? Surely you cant think that the way it was handled was the best way to go? especially now we see Venables was never turned into a decent or even safe member of society despite the millions spent on him!
I also think that since this latest breach, he has forfeited his right to anonymity & he should be turfed out on the streets without all the police protection he has enjoyed up to now. If all the reports about his drug taking, alcohol abuse & fighting are true, then the police & justice system have clearly been doing a pretty slack job of keeping an eye on him over the past few years...

[SymphonicX]

So what would your suggestion have been to punish them for what they did, just say hypothetically you were in charge of their punishment back in '93? Surely you cant think that the way it was handled was the best way to go? especially now we see Venables was never turned into a decent or even safe member of society despite the millions spent on him!
I also think that since this latest breach, he has forfeited his right to anonymity & he should be turfed out on the streets without all the police protection he has enjoyed up to now. If all the reports about his drug taking, alcohol abuse & fighting are true, then the police & justice system have clearly been doing a pretty slack job of keeping an eye on him over the past few years...

All very valid points Tricky. And that's problematic for all of us, coming up with a workable solution.
But you also hit a nail with this idea of him being turfed out with no protection - because in terms of a solution to the problem, in a way this can create a weird sort of circle - let me explain....

One of the most powerful, influential incentives or motivators in society is shame...a basic fear of society's reaction to something...this can easily turn to fear should the right situation evolve and this is what would happen if he was realeased - he'd be shit scared and would inevitably be torn apart limb from limb - with a sickening message being sent out to all and sundry that our society can and will fight back against the sick shit in the world...

No matter how questionable I think that is, I'd say it'd probably work in a sort of Krays-esque manner.

Would it have stopped those two 11 year olds dropping a sink on those kids in Eddlington?

Nope. Let's not bet on it...

You'll probably find people, particularly like me, would rather concentrate on prevention than cure... I have said a few times that obviously the current situation hasn't worked and the problem is there isn't a sufficient infrastructure even thought of to properly tackle these kids who are f**m from the word "go".

See the problem is so blatantly going deeper than two kids arbitrarily waking up with murder on their minds. They are really the tip of the iceberg, and in a sense this particular case was an early warning sign - instead we chose to blame Child's Play 3 and whatnot but really couldn't deal with the fact that we are becoming less and less responsive to our children and family life was decaying alarmingly.

Its worse now, and if you look back to 1993 kids weren't as messed up as they are now. I was 12, growing up in East London...things were pretty bad but now its harsh.

This is all due to the breakdown of family...and also, adressing a point from earlier - kids in abject poverty do the most disgusting things around the world from stealing to murder - the allusion that kids in africa are living in poverty peacefully is misguided. I can attach probably 30 pictures to this post with kids holding Ak47s, pickpocketing, robbing, etc etc and this is a huge problem. In areas of particularly high crime kids will commit the bulk of the street level stuff because the law won't charge them. In poverty in the UK it's mixed less survival based crime with more boredom based crime and this is why these chavvy uneducated little twats will mug, stab, rape or kill for a mars bar. This is due to the breakdown of society, a lack of fundamental guidance, and the very shame that we talked about earler.

So we can keep locking them up or hanging them or peacefully injecting them (!!!!) but there'll be another bunch to take their place in a system that's already failed and continues to.

So as I say, throw em out on the streets might be the only way to solve it if we haven't got a team of people with enough social conscience and integrity to come up with a decent plan. I'm fucking glad it's not up to either of us!!!

I wish I could beat this whole thread into submission with the golden ticket...but alas it's just another wonka bar. I've always toyed with the idea of a prison village...self contained and functional with it's own police force of prisoners and a mayor, also a prisoner, shit like that - kinda like that Ray Liotta movie but less tribal and stuff...just fuckin' get rid of the worst ones...

But as I say, another 10 to replace them because we're breeding faster than teaching. There's a social underclass that's boiling with anger and resentment and it's all going to come to a head - one side is religious piousness and extremism and on the other is pure ignorance and resentment. We're all fucked. Might as well let them both go to be honest...the weird thing is that they are safer inside? Are they locking away the criminals from us or keeping us away from them?

[Chic Freak]

They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty... - but to write off these kids as "evil" is so archaic, and blindsided.

Seems like this is turning towards a nature/ nurture debate between SymphonicX blaming the boys' environment and Tricky saying they were destined to be evil from birth:


Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that.

SymphonicX, taking an objective, scientific approach and referring to psychological explanations for their behaviour (instead of knee-jerk emotional reactions) doesn't necessarily discount the idea of certain people being born with a strong disposition towards acts we would call "evil." Info on psychopathy here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy).

If what Tricky says here is true, you will see that it does support the notion of the boys being psychopaths:


Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety!


Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim.

A psychopathic child would be less moved by the suffering of James (Blair, 1999 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V9F-3WM4PBH-D&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F01%2F1999&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1238642017&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ce8d476da5ae387c6a1dd9fbd869af57)), more likely to take risks to seek stimulation (Quay, 1965 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/pdf_extract/122/2/180)) and generally less worried about the situation (BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6198704.stm)) and therefore more likely to patiently keep trying until they found a child, rather than give up lose or their nerve.

BUT, just to make figuring out the cause more difficult, sociopaths are indistinguishable from psychopaths in their behaviour and neurology BUT their condition is caused by their social environment (hence SOCIOpath) and not solely by what they were born with. So we can still legitimately "blame the parents" and whoever else for creating and unleashing two monsters on the world.

This is indeed harder to accept than just saying, "they ws just evil, innit. End of." If that really was the end of it then why is sociopathy on the rise in the UK? Will Self's point was well made:


The truth is, and as Will Self said on Question Time last week, it's far easier for people to believe that these kids are sitting there with devil's horns, scheming for the destruction of humanity than it is for us to realise the uncomfortable truth....

... that many of these people are being made, not born, which means the environments they are in must be improved as soon as possible in order to save lives.


Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death.

Actually, poverty is one of the most consistently accurate predictors of criminality, e.g. check out social disorganisation theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_disorganisation_theory).


Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion

Then what's the point of being involved in a discussion? :dead:

[Tricky]

Then what's the point of being involved in a discussion? :dead:


Tis only similar to the house of commons where they shout at each other from different sides of the room & rival parties wont back down :p
Good post though Chic :)

[Neil]

He's appearing in court...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10735857

Is he going to get a second second chance?

[Ghost Of War]

Well, if the justice system in this country needs a chance to show that it works, he should be sent back to prison for the remainder of his sentence. He is, after all, out on license. There will be absolute uproar in Liverpool if he is released "on license" again.

[Neil]

Well, if the justice system in this country needs a chance to show that it works, he should be sent back to prison for the remainder of his sentence. He is, after all, out on license. There will be absolute uproar in Liverpool if he is released "on license" again.

Yurp!

EDIT: He's admitted being guilty of the charges - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7905439/James-Bulger-killer-Jon-Venables-admits-child-pornography-offences.html

[Ghost Of War]

Jailed for 2 years. 2 YEARS!! He'll be out in 12 months, with a new id. Disgraceful.

[Neil]

Jailed for 2 years. 2 YEARS!! He'll be out in 12 months, with a new id. Disgraceful.

And no doubt is a 'special wing' for those 12months to protect him...

[Neil]

It gets worse - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7906722/Jon-Venables-posed-as-paedophile-mother-online.html

[slickwilly13]

Reading this makes me glad I live Texas. Too bad they did not commit those horrible crimes here. They deserve no mercy and no protection. You guys need to change some laws over there. Maybe a revolution? It pisses me off that some people care more about the criminals than the victims. They are no better than these turds.

[Legion2213]

And our "justice system" (I use the term loosely) bends over backwards to protect this disgusting piece of filth whilst spitting on the grave of James Bulger and kicking his relatives in the face again.

I hope he gets sussed out and knifed to death in his cell. I very rarely, genuinely wish death on anybody...but this one, yes, I really do want to wake up one morning and read/hear that he has been butchered.

[SymphonicX]

What he did when he was 10 years old was barbaric.
What he's doing as an adult is barbaric.

Doesn't fill me with any of this vengeance crap that some of you are happy to be part of, and it certainly doesn't inspire me to brandish a pitchfork and take part in a witchhunt.

What really scares me is not this guy being released, not even both of them being released with new identities.

What scares me is the cyclical nature of humanity and society in general who can see that this idea of exacting grisly retribution is the way forward, rather than backward.

What also scares me is that no attempt or hint is ever made towards stopping these sort of monsters from developing through childhood. Not one. We'd far more rather wait for kids to be turned into absolute fucking evil little shits so we can then hunt them down, whilst ignoring their parents, and beat our chests over and over and over because this is far easier.

Far, far easier.

Do I want to see two ten year old boys executed? No. Do I want to see even the adult version executed? no, although I realise that may actually be best for them not because of what they have done, but because of the unrelenting brutality that is displayed not by the murderers themselves, but from people who are supposed to know better.

Sorry, controversial, I'm coming down on the side of the kid-killers! Or so it seems.
The reality is that really I'm coming down AGAINST the side of mainstream society who are so hateful, vengeful, and emotional that they would act like this. The lack of understanding or will to understand the root causes of problems like these is overshadowed by the irrational behaviour of the pubilc who cannot get over that these murders were commited by boys who didn't even have the ability to read or write properly.

but we can keep aiming our hate at the killers themselves because it gives us the perfect excuse to ignore the fact that the way our society functions right now, is the perfect breeding ground for murderous monsters like these to be created.

Where is the media pressure on families to bring their kids up properly? Where are the campaigns highlighting the dangers of bad parenting? Where is any kind of intervention beyond a government level and on a SOCIETAL one? Where is it? It doesn't exist.

So we can keep going round in circles trying to punish and repunish those who have committed these heinous crimes in history or we can, collectively, put our efforts into minimising the effects of bad education and poverty on the lower classes, whilst also trying to instill a sense of community back into our towns whereby monsters like John Venables are rooted out at an early age and dealt with properly.

sorry. ramble.

[Legion2213]

Symphonic, if this scumbag had been jailed for life (meaning life), you probably wouldn't see the sort of comments that disturb you, because justice would have been seen to be done.

It's cases like this when evil people are given many chances and the law bends over backwards to protect them that people start saying crazy things.

Example: You don't see too many posts on here or elsewhere about "The Yorkshire Ripper" do you? Why? Because he will die in prison, people know he will die in prison, so they are content that justice has been served to the maximum that we allow in the UK.

[acealive1]

they have a guy in custody who two years ago nearly killed someone working at a gas station by stabbing him. no motive either. even told the guy have a nice night.



then he gets let out and last week he asked a guy who was finishing up work if he had some change for him. the guy said no and was stabbed to death. how the FUCK do u give someone a second chance after u nearly killed someone the first time?

[Wyldwraith]

I'm sickened by so much of this,
Yes, we need to work harder on both finding new means of protecting society from predators and refining existing methods to close many existing loopholes and inconsistencies that allow dangerous individuals to be released after serving only a small fraction of their sentence.

Even so, that's NOT ENOUGH. We've built a punitive punishment & deterrent-based justice system. Now we're finding that neither the promised deterrent effect OR the harsh punitive methods of our prisons are working as we envisioned.

Angered by this, many clamor for "justice with finality"....aka retaliatory State-sanctioned murder. Does executing the predators solve the problem of what to do with the predators we've already caught, insofar as protecting society from any further harm by them work? Yes. Unfortunately, capital punishment is not now, nor has it ever been an effective deterrent...which after all, is the primary goal. Dealing with 1 individual who's already done their damage does NOTHING to prevent more and more and more sick fucks from going out and doing the same sorts of vile acts we wish to execute the monsters we've caught for.

If Capital Punishment fails as a deterrent/preventative measure, as every damned study done seems to indicate, then all it becomes is revenge/retaliation that does nothing to help society with the primary problem. What problem? The creation of ever more monsters of this sort with every passing year.

Call it liberal pap if you like, but if we don't go to the heart of the problem by working to eliminate the environments that help to shape these screwed up individuals, we will NEVER stem the rising tide of vicious barbarism that threatens to drown us in its depravity.

What we do once the criminal has already been shaped into the twisted caricature of a human being that desires to perform these depraved acts of violence is simply cleaning up the spilled blood. It does next to nothing to reduce the amount of innocent blood being spilled.

History has taught us that much. The 1800s legal system hung criminals for pretty much everything we consider a serious felony, even non-violent thefts. It made executions into spectacles, theorizing as authorities had for centuries that displaying the consequences of crimes would deter future potential offenders.

The result? One of the most violent, revenge-oriented, unjust periods of American history.

We've tried the "Hang 'em High!" approach, and all it did was make death into some sort of macabre spectacle. Then as now, it did and still would CREATE far more killers than it deterred, if for no other reason than our sick society's emphasis on fame-at-any-cost.

Even without the draconian and methodical expansion of the Retaliatory Justice system, we already need Son of Sam laws to prevent killers from cashing in on the celebrity-status their crimes have given them.

Can anyone honestly and factually support a line of reasoning that can explain why returning to a more execution-friendly system wouldn't explosively expand the Serial Killer As Celebrity phenomena?

If you can't find a means of convincing society to cast aside such ghoulishly bestowed celebrity to these predators, it doesn't matter if you create autonomous roving death squads. You STILL won't have a significant impact on capital crimes.

All this is FAR more complicated than the tried-and-not-true method of Execute Them All, Let God Sort Them Out. I wish more people would understand that.

[SymphonicX]

Symphonic, if this scumbag had been jailed for life (meaning life), you probably wouldn't see the sort of comments that disturb you, because justice would have been seen to be done.

It's cases like this when evil people are given many chances and the law bends over backwards to protect them that people start saying crazy things.

Example: You don't see too many posts on here or elsewhere about "The Yorkshire Ripper" do you? Why? Because he will die in prison, people know he will die in prison, so they are content that justice has been served to the maximum that we allow in the UK.

Yeah fair enough, I see your point.

Perhaps then the issue, like immigration, isn't with the subjects at hand rather than the system that puts them there - or in this case, doesn't - people seem to be confusing their issues with the justice system and their hate for a murderer - seems like the cause should be taken to the government rather than calling for murder themselves...

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------


I'm sickened by so much of this,
Yes, we need to work harder on both finding new means of protecting society from predators and refining existing methods to close many existing loopholes and inconsistencies that allow dangerous individuals to be released after serving only a small fraction of their sentence.

Even so, that's NOT ENOUGH. We've built a punitive punishment & deterrent-based justice system. Now we're finding that neither the promised deterrent effect OR the harsh punitive methods of our prisons are working as we envisioned.

Angered by this, many clamor for "justice with finality"....aka retaliatory State-sanctioned murder. Does executing the predators solve the problem of what to do with the predators we've already caught, insofar as protecting society from any further harm by them work? Yes. Unfortunately, capital punishment is not now, nor has it ever been an effective deterrent...which after all, is the primary goal. Dealing with 1 individual who's already done their damage does NOTHING to prevent more and more and more sick fucks from going out and doing the same sorts of vile acts we wish to execute the monsters we've caught for.

If Capital Punishment fails as a deterrent/preventative measure, as every damned study done seems to indicate, then all it becomes is revenge/retaliation that does nothing to help society with the primary problem. What problem? The creation of ever more monsters of this sort with every passing year.

Call it liberal pap if you like, but if we don't go to the heart of the problem by working to eliminate the environments that help to shape these screwed up individuals, we will NEVER stem the rising tide of vicious barbarism that threatens to drown us in its depravity.

What we do once the criminal has already been shaped into the twisted caricature of a human being that desires to perform these depraved acts of violence is simply cleaning up the spilled blood. It does next to nothing to reduce the amount of innocent blood being spilled.

History has taught us that much. The 1800s legal system hung criminals for pretty much everything we consider a serious felony, even non-violent thefts. It made executions into spectacles, theorizing as authorities had for centuries that displaying the consequences of crimes would deter future potential offenders.

The result? One of the most violent, revenge-oriented, unjust periods of American history.

We've tried the "Hang 'em High!" approach, and all it did was make death into some sort of macabre spectacle. Then as now, it did and still would CREATE far more killers than it deterred, if for no other reason than our sick society's emphasis on fame-at-any-cost.

Even without the draconian and methodical expansion of the Retaliatory Justice system, we already need Son of Sam laws to prevent killers from cashing in on the celebrity-status their crimes have given them.

Can anyone honestly and factually support a line of reasoning that can explain why returning to a more execution-friendly system wouldn't explosively expand the Serial Killer As Celebrity phenomena?

If you can't find a means of convincing society to cast aside such ghoulishly bestowed celebrity to these predators, it doesn't matter if you create autonomous roving death squads. You STILL won't have a significant impact on capital crimes.

All this is FAR more complicated than the tried-and-not-true method of Execute Them All, Let God Sort Them Out. I wish more people would understand that.

Excellent post, couldn't agree more, and couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tricky]

So whats the solution to people who have already turned out like that? Fair point on what you say about execution, but how should they be punished & how should society be protected from them committing future crimes? I think its pretty obvious that the limp wristed liberal approach of social workers, adventure holidays & trying to make them nice & take away their core criminal urges hasnt worked either, and is an insult to the victims & family of the victims who quite rightly wish to see justice done & be seen to be done. At the very least life should mean life for murderers, rapists & child abusers with absolutely no chance of parole, but then you get the problem of overcrowded prisons & the cost to the taxpayer of looking after these people (the public maybe wouldnt complain that much if prison wasnt the 5 star hotel it is these days, especially for special cases like venables who the prison services bend over backwards to care for)

Its a tough one, but there needs to be a solution

[SymphonicX]

So whats the solution to people who have already turned out like that? Fair point on what you say about execution, but how should they be punished & how should society be protected from them committing future crimes? I think its pretty obvious that the limp wristed liberal approach of social workers, adventure holidays & trying to make them nice & take away their core criminal urges hasnt worked either, and is an insult to the victims & family of the victims who quite rightly wish to see justice done & be seen to be done. At the very least life should mean life for murderers, rapists & child abusers with absolutely no chance of parole, but then you get the problem of overcrowded prisons & the cost to the taxpayer of looking after these people (the public maybe wouldnt complain that much if prison wasnt the 5 star hotel it is these days, especially for special cases like venables who the prison services bend over backwards to care for)

Its a tough one, but there needs to be a solution


Totally, this is the conundrum - the system is too far gone to change - and who really wants to see some kiddy fiddling murderer out on an adventure holiday funded by us! You're certainly right, the softly softly approach of trying to turn them into nice people will just NOT work for some types.

This is the thing that really needs thinking about - a viable alternative, say a prison island? I quite like that idea.

[Tricky]

This is the thing that really needs thinking about - a viable alternative, say a prison island? I quite like that idea.

Now theres an idea! It wouldnt even have to be all mod cons, just a huge concrete basic facility on one of the remote scottish or cornish isles with no way of getting to the mainland other than by official boat or helicopter. As long as it had the basics needed to live (water,food,a bed) it wouldnt need anything else. The very idea of it being a nasty place to end up would certainly deter a lot of the petty criminals if even shop lifting resulted in a spell there, and it would be somewhere to permanently house the types who were born bad & will always be a danger. The film "Shutter island" springs to mind :elol:

[SymphonicX]

Now theres an idea! It wouldnt even have to be all mod cons, just a huge concrete basic facility on one of the remote scottish or cornish isles with no way of getting to the mainland other than by official boat or helicopter. As long as it had the basics needed to live (water,food,a bed) it wouldnt need anything else. The very idea of it being a nasty place to end up would certainly deter a lot of the petty criminals if even shop lifting resulted in a spell there, and it would be somewhere to permanently house the types who were born bad & will always be a danger. The film "Shutter island" springs to mind :elol:

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of "No Escape" - sure it was called that - Ray Liota movie from back in the day - let them hole up on an island with no amenities...no prison there, just no way of actually getting off the island - let anarchy rule them

[Neil]

..and he get's yet another chance...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/James-Bulger-Killer-Jon-Venables-To-Be-Given-New-ID-After-Security-Breach-Revealed-Old-Identity/Article/201105115985161?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15985161_James_Bulger_Killer_Jon_Venab les_To_Be_Given_New_ID_After_Security_Breach_Revea led_Old_Identity

[Tricky]

Its disgusting, he's already got away with murder! he's basically got a licence to do whatever he wants because no matter what he does he'll always be protected on the inside as well as on the outside & the government will bend over backwards to make sure nobody ever finds out who he is regardless of how serious his crimes are. He's never suffered or been punished for his original crime & the others he's committed since, whereas James Bulgers mum & family have been punished every day for the past 18 years.
Apparently this is him in the photos that are spreading around the net like wildfire, but I dont think anyone will confirm or deny it http://danmeah.co.uk/2011/05/04/jon-venables-aka-paul-jon-williams/

[Legion2213]

Its disgusting, he's already got away with murder! he's basically got a licence to do whatever he wants because no matter what he does he'll always be protected on the inside as well as on the outside & the government will bend over backwards to make sure nobody ever finds out who he is regardless of how serious his crimes are. He's never suffered or been punished for his original crime & the others he's committed since, whereas James Bulgers mum & family have been punished every day for the past 18 years.
Apparently this is him in the photos that are spreading around the net like wildfire, but I dont think anyone will confirm or deny it http://danmeah.co.uk/2011/05/04/jon-venables-aka-paul-jon-williams/

Another scouse guy was fingered as Venebles a few years ago (totally innocent, not Venebles at all), the poor bastard was living in fear of vigilantes thinking he was guilty and killing him.

It's sickening that innocent people are being placed in real danger to protect these child murdering filth.

Something is VERY wrong when this sort of thing is done by the "justice system", very, very wrong

[Neil]

Jon Venables not given parole - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-13927361

[SymphonicX]

Doesn't shock me whatsoever!
Still like the prison island idea...."yeah, you're a fuckin' number, fuck off"

I dunno though, he'll probably never get out if the public has their way. probably for the best considering they've both been brought by the prison system....! Who wants more of that moral code walking around?

[Andy]

Jon Venables not given parole - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-13927361

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/102/threadnecromancyns1nf0.jpg

:p

[Neil]

This case haunts me. I don't know why. My son is ten, and I can't get my head around how a pair of ten years olds can murder, so horribly...

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65842000/jpg/_65842645_bulger_cctv.jpg



Anyway, when two year old James Bulger was murdered by ten year old Robert Thompson and Jon Venables back in 1993, I didn't realise quite how nearly he was saved, just for bad luck:-

1) ...an elderly woman noticed the baby, who was obviously hurt. She approached them and asked what the problem was. James was in tears, his face bruised and red.

"We just found him at the bottom of the hill," Jon and Robert claimed as if they didn't know him.

She told the boys to take him to the Walton Lane Police Station just down the road and gave them directions there. The little boy's injuries worried her. She pointed them in the direction of the police, but watched incredulously as they walked off in the opposite direction. She shouted after them, but they didn't turn back. As she stood there, unsure what to do, another woman who had seen the boys earlier said that James had been laughing. She believed the baby was okay; they were probably inexperienced brothers watching over their younger sibling.

The old lady so nearly stepped in!

2) They stopped inside some of the shops. A woman walking a dog eyed the boys with the toddler and asked what was going on. They told her that they found the lost boy at the Strand and were on their way to the police station. Another concerned woman, who had a little girl with her, overheard the conversation and joined in. "Well," she said, "you've walked a long way from the Strand to Walton Lane Police Station."

Jon said, "That's where the man directed us." When she asked where they lived, Robert was about to answer, but Jon cut him off. "The police station is on our way home."

Robert let go of James' hand, as if willing to relinquish him. The women watched Robert as he looked away. He seemed nervous. But then Jon took control. "Get hold of his hand," he said. Robert once again took James by the hand.

The younger woman with the child looked down at James, who was hurt, and appeared upset. "Are you all right, son?" she asked. James didn't answer. Jon insisted they would find the station; they would take care of it. But the woman felt something wasn't right. It was getting dark and the boys weren't honest. She asked that the other woman with the dog to watch her little girl, who was tired, while she escorted James to the station. But the woman with the dog refused — her pet did not like children.

If the dog owner had just got involved!




http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/3.html

[Mike70]

But the woman with the dog refused[/B] — her pet did not like children.

If the dog owner had just got involved!

that's about par for the course with dog owners. "god forbid that my dog is put out because a child is in trouble"

I hope whoever that dog owner was has read this story and their actions haunt them in nightmares for the rest of their life.

[Morto Vivente]

This case haunts me. I don't know why. My son is ten, and I can't get my head around how a pair of ten years olds can murder, so horribly..

Anyway, when two year old James Bulger was murdered by ten year old Robert Thompson and Jon Venables back in 1993, I didn't realise quite how nearly he was saved, just for bad luck:-

What with the other recent case in Liverpool concerning the 2 teenagers brutally beating a homeless man to death, I was thinking about the James Bulger case a lot recently.

- - - Updated - - -


She asked that the other woman with the dog to watch her little girl, who was tired, while she escorted James to the station. But the woman with the dog refused[/B] — her pet did not like children.

[i]If the dog owner had just got involved!

The dog not liking children sounds like a lame excuse to me. I think the woman in question just couldn't be arsed. It probably does plague her conscience, and if it doesn't she should seek out a psychologist immediately.

[Cykotic]

I think we should be told of their identities and whatever happens, happens. They brought it upon themselves when they took his life. Denise Bulger has always fought for their protection to be lifted, and I agree with her. They will or have got out of jail. She will always have to face the consequences of their actions. She is in effect, serving a life sentence.

I have a twelve year old nephew, an 11 year old niece, a 4 year old niece and a 2 year old nephew. If anything happened to them, Not a force on this earth would stop me from taking out their attackers.

[Neil]

Jon Venables is about to be released (again) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23190447


One of James Bulger's killers, Jon Venables, should be released from prison, the parole board has said.

Venables was previously paroled, but sent back to jail for accessing child pornography.

[Cykotic]

FFS.... the wrong people in society are being protected

No doubt, he will get a new identity..... at our expense of course

[Neil]

And the poor mother is still suffering - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36794888


A woman who admitted sending disturbing Twitter messages to the mother of murdered toddler, James Bulger, has been jailed for three years.

Chloe Cowan, 20, from Margate in Kent, pleaded guilty to stalking involving serious alarm or distress at an earlier hearing at Canterbury Crown Court.

She had posed as one of the toddler's killers and as his ghost in the tweets.

[Neil]

8eKZTtJGsi8

[bassman]

Wow.....this is the first I’ve heard of this case. Very disturbing. My daughter is currently ten years old and I too just can’t fathom something like this happening.


I’m hesitant to say it just because of the serious nature of this thread, but the kid in that trailer looks to be a good actor for his age...

[MinionZombie]

Wow.....this is the first I’ve heard of this case. Very disturbing. My daughter is currently ten years old and I too just can’t fathom something like this happening.


I’m hesitant to say it just because of the serious nature of this thread, but the kid in that trailer looks to be a good actor for his age...

Yeah, this was huge news in 1993 here in the UK, and the case continues to reverberate to this day. It's one of those cases that everyone has at least heard of, or knows the connotations of it, and of course it always gets refreshed interest everytime there's a new documentary. There were two competing docs last year as it was the 25th anniversary, one of which was quite controversial in its apparent take on the killers themselves. Then, of course, there's the recurring issue of Venables and possession of child pornography (both killers are under new identities, with one or both having had to get new identities at one time or another as the info has been leaked). IIRC Venables is back in prison for a second time for that offense.

The whole thing was beyond shocking at the time. I didn't know too much of it when it was happening as I was only about 8 or 9 at the time and the Nine O'Clock News was of no interest to me, but it's something you then discover at some point (news stories, documentaries, etc). Apparently the things those two did to James Bulger were even more horrific than what was publicly confirmed (hard to imagine considering how awful the stuff that was reported on actually was!)

As for this docu-drama ... oof ... this is very sensitive territory to be stepping into, especially in the UK, and you wonder about the perspective of it all. Yes, you hear these boys - now caught - blubbering like any child fearing an adult's discipline ... but the things these boys did are beyond shocking, beyond sickening, beyond comprehension.

The anger that was brought out by the whole case was in itself quite stunning. When you see video of the vans bringing the boys to court and you see these hordes of people furiously screaming and trying to get at the vans (the fervor stirred up by the tabloids, although it was the top news story anywhere you'd care to look) ... it's all quite indescribable, really.

There are certain crimes that haunt a nation's psyche - and this is one of those cases, if not the case, for the UK.

...

More about the film - from the Director:

I wouldn’t expect [the family] to be comfortable with a film which humanises the boys but I do hope they understand the reason it was made, and it certainly wasn’t to bring any more grief to them.

The reason the film was made was to try and offer more of an understanding as to how these two 10-year-old boys could have committed such a horrific crime because I think if we don’t understand the cause of it, it’s likely that something similar will happen again in the future.

The Bulger family weren't consulted regarding the film. On one hand you can understand not wanting to dredge it up again - but it is also something they live with every single day - but on another hand you're depicting the victim in the film, so it's a lose-lose position to put yourself in as a filmmaker.

Nominated for an Oscar in the Short Film category.


More than 90,000 people signed a petition asking the Academy to disqualify the short film, but yesterday (January 22) it was revealed Detainment had made the short list for Best Short Film (Live Action).

Denise took to Twitter to share her outrage at the nomination, where she wrote:

I cannot express how disgusted and upset I am at this so called film that has been made and now nominated for an Oscar.

It’s one thing making a film like this without contacting or getting permission from James family but another to have a child re-enact the final hours of James’s life before he was brutally murdered and making myself and my family have to relive this all over again!

And the opinion of James' father:


Hollywood should hang its head in shame. There are some things that should be off limits and the murder of a baby is one of them.

To *Hollywood it is just another film. But to me and my family it is a living *nightmare. Those behind the Oscar nominations knew how we felt about this film and the director.

We’ve been very public about how *devastating it is to see such a sympathetic portrayal of James’s killers.

The boys who killed James are now grown men, one is inside again for child abuse offences. But will they remember that on Oscar night in their fancy dresses and tuxedos?

[Neil]

It's really tricky territory isn't it. When is long enough? What is a fair view/representation or not?

[MinionZombie]

It's really tricky territory isn't it. When is long enough? What is a fair view/representation or not?

You also have to wonder what the goal really is and is it achievable? The Director says he wants to find an explanation, but how are you going to achieve that within the brief timeframe of a short film, but also from the interview tapes in the immediate aftermath?

Even after all this time and examination there's no clear explanation beyond 'two despicable scumbag kids did some incomprehensibly vicious and twisted'.

Tumbling down the rabbit hole, as you jump from article to article, it sounds as if Venables in particular just wasn't right. Other offenders who were at the same institution as him have spoken about how Venables got special treatment and often boasted about what he had done. Considering his continued crimes and spells in and out of prison, there's clearly something not right in that scumbag's head.

[Neil]

You also have to wonder what the goal really is and is it achievable? The Director says he wants to find an explanation, but how are you going to achieve that within the brief timeframe of a short film, but also from the interview tapes in the immediate aftermath?

Even after all this time and examination there's no clear explanation beyond 'two despicable scumbag kids did some incomprehensibly vicious and twisted'.

Tumbling down the rabbit hole, as you jump from article to article, it sounds as if Venables in particular just wasn't right. Other offenders who were at the same institution as him have spoken about how Venables got special treatment and often boasted about what he had done. Considering his continued crimes and spells in and out of prison, there's clearly something not right in that scumbag's head.

Yeh, I think there's no mention of the two's post Bulger "activities"... Which surely is important to give a rounded view of the two characters. ie: This is what they did and were like as kids, and they went on to do...?

[MinionZombie]

Yeh, I think there's no mention of the two's post Bulger "activities"... Which surely is important to give a rounded view of the two characters. ie: This is what they did and were like as kids, and they went on to do...?

And the old excuse by very curious people saying things 'at 10 years old you can't know right from wrong and the consequences of your actions' ... ... really??? At 10 you know the difference between right and wrong, you know if you get hit that it hurts, that if you get cut you bleed, that kidnapping a toddler from a shopping centre (something they'd attempted at least once before IIRC), committing a litany of disgusting and perverted violent actions, and leaving the body on train tracks to be run over by a train is most certainly bloody wrong! :stunned:

They weren't stealing sweets from a corner shop, they didn't break someone's window with their football - they committed one of the most horrendous and shocking crimes in British history.

[EvilNed]

Remind me to read through this thread some day. Seems interesting.

[shootemindehead]

Yeah, this was huge news in 1993 here in the UK, and the case continues to reverberate to this day. It's one of those cases that everyone has at least heard of, or knows the connotations of it, and of course it always gets refreshed interest everytime there's a new documentary. There were two competing docs last year as it was the 25th anniversary, one of which was quite controversial in its apparent take on the killers themselves. Then, of course, there's the recurring issue of Venables and possession of child pornography (both killers are under new identities, with one or both having had to get new identities at one time or another as the info has been leaked). IIRC Venables is back in prison for a second time for that offense.



Yeh, Jon Venables is a truly disturbing character and the Bulger case is all the more shocking because of how innocent he and Thompson looked at the time. I remember the case really well and it was terribly shocking to everyone. What I hated though was the politicians using 'Child's Play 3' and other horror movies as a cheap political football and trying to emulate Mary Whitehouse's gibberish ten years earlier and thus belittling the entire case and the conversation that SHOULD have been happing because of it.

Hard to believe it was 25 years ago.

[MinionZombie]

Yeh, Jon Venables is a truly disturbing character and the Bulger case is all the more shocking because of how innocent he and Thompson looked at the time. I remember the case really well and it was terribly shocking to everyone. What I hated though was the politicians using 'Child's Play 3' and other horror movies as a cheap political football and trying to emulate Mary Whitehouse's gibberish ten years earlier and thus belittling the entire case and the conversation that SHOULD have been happing because of it.

Oh yeah, the "Ban The Sadist Videos" resurgence. What a load of bullshit that was. Something to do with the father of one of the kids having rented Child's Play 3, but there was sod all evidence that the killers had even watched it. And how could go from that film to the sort of stuff those two bastards did?! Scapegoat bollocks, tabloids rushing for easy answers, same old shit comes around every generation like in 2005 and the whole palava around "Manhunt".

http://www.hudsonlee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/mirror-cp3.jpg

https://pm1.narvii.com/6441/9b7b81776a4d0283f00d5522cb053c8ad5cc3ab2_hq.jpg

^^^
"Dolls" ... seriously?! That's tame as all get out. Fun flick, but it's more like a Grimms fairytale than anything else!

[Neil]

LghWVySobEA