Stopping power 9mm vs .40

[Yojimbo]

Since I know we have several members here who are very knowlegeble about firearms, I am hoping for some feedback regarding the stopping power of a 9mm parabellum as compared to a .40 caliber.

I am considering purchasing a Glock- either M-26 chambered for 9mm parabellum or a M-27 in .40 caliber. In asking around I have heard conflicting things about the stopping power of a 9mm vs .40 - two freinds of mine who are also law enforcement officers have conflicting views on the .9mm with one saying that the stopping power is only slightly better than a .38 +P who recommends I go with the .40 as an alternative and the other who says the .9mm is more than sufficient and that the .40 is meant for those with machismo issues.

So to the members in the know- is the difference in stopping power negligible between a 9mm and a .40? Is the .40 a superior round as far as stopping power goes?

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks!

[Arcades057]

Stopping power is generally a myth; shot placement is what counts. Sure, a .45 or a .44 will make a nice big hole in someone, but a shot to center-mass in .22 LR WILL stop your attacked in his tracks.

A .40 caliber is one hard-kicking son of a bitch, too. You fire a compact GLOCK chambered in .45 and you can manage it; do the same with a .40 and you're in for a surprise. I've owned the compacts of both 9mm and .40 (GLOCK 19 and 23 respectively) and while I loved both, I'd have to give the 19 an edge due to a) price of 50 rounds, and b) likelihood of delivering a good pair into a target.

Going by general consensus, however, .40 is regarded as the round with better stopping power. Then, if you want to graduate to full male status, grab yourself one of these bad boys...

http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/10/20/20.gif

Glock 20 (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://remtek.com/arms/glock/model/10/20/20.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/10/20/index.htm&usg=__isfYnmNX0qBkZJaAf9JrQVusnEo=&h=321&w=435&sz=73&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=hCRn83NNxh9XhM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGlock%2B20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe% 3Doff%26sa%3DN%26rls%3DHPIC,HPIC:2009-45,HPIC:en%26tbs%3Disch:1)

[Eyebiter]

Either caliber is manageable with the proper ammunition selection.

If you go by cost per round 40 cal is more expensive than 9mm
http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=9mm+Luger
http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.40+S%26W

Personally I'd get the 9mm version. Less recoil and the ammunition is cheaper.

Too many guys spend big money on a great handgun then are too cheap to bring it along to the range because the ammo costs too much.

When you order the pistol, try several different brands of ammo until you find one you like. Then go online and buy 1k rounds of ammo for it. That way you will be encouraged to take it to the range often and practice with it.

[fulci fan]

If it is for your house, I would get the 9.

[Skippy911sc]

A friend of mine (LEO) had the sort of experience you are looking for and passed this story on to me. He worked Narc div. and was getting ready to make a bust. They burst through the door and the lead Detective went first where he encountered a HUGE guy with a shotgun (he was on something) the office did the usual put it down, freeze, po-po thing and the guy just kept coming, he unloaded 6 9mm rounds into the guy before the officer behind him laid him out with a .45. That Detective switched, after that day, to carrying a .45. I know placement counts but I think of it this way, what is the minimum size of round you are allowed to use on hunting with a firearm, and step it up one. :)

I like a good ole 1911, and have fired all of the rounds mentioned in this discussion. If you are talking about your life, don't mess around with something small. If you want to plink and have fun... go with a 9.

For hunting I use a .460 pistol but will practice with the .454 or .45 colt. If you not planning on carrying get yourself a good old 870, the sound of the pump is enough to scare the crap out of most intruders.

[Yojimbo]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, folks. Quite a lot to consider here and a lot of good info.

[Publius]

All I can say from personal experience is that a .40 puts slightly larger holes in paper than a 9mm, and a .45 makes slightly larger holes than a .40. ;)

From what I've read, the difference in "stopping power" between the rounds is marginal and often overrated, especially when using modern defensive ammunition. The point that 9mm will go right through someone without doing much damage is based on using standard military FMJ ball ammunition, which you shouldn't be doing unless you're constrained by the Hague Conventions. ;) Here (http://oblio13.blogspot.com/2009/10/9mm-vs-40-s-vs-45acp.html) is a good blog post on the subject.

I think it's a good idea to find a range that rents guns, give each a try, and see what feels most comfortable for you. The best choice is whatever you're most accurate with. I personally don't find the difference in recoil to be very significant, and it will be even less with a high-performance 9mm round, so that may not be a big factor in favor of 9mm. Other factors to consider are that you'll get slightly higher magazine capacity with 9mm and 9mm is cheaper so you'll get more range time with the same ammo budget.

[fulci fan]

The 45. is an ass kicker. It definatley has stopping power because the bullet is designed to create "hydrostatic shock" (at least the ammunition I shot.). I heard it is similar to getting hit with a cannon ball rather than the bullet going right through.

[Exatreides]

I think we use to talk about something like this a lot in the old forum in the fiction section.

Though I think it was the FNp90 vs the UMP or mp5 or something like that. Same argument about smaller rounds and higher velocity and rpm, vs larger slower rounds.

Can't remember who won that argument...though I do think I favored the FNp90.

Really its all just about personal preference and what you feel comfortable shooting.

Remember whatever range you have with a pistol is going to be in doors and pretty close(if its for home protection sort of thing) So I always consider what weapon I can raise to someone's chest/head the fastest and deliver as many accurate rounds as possible.

[strayrider]

As Arcades mentioned the term "stopping power" is highly over-emphasized. Any round, properly placed, that can penetrate bone and disrupt neurological (brain, spinal column) function has "stopping power". Larger caliber bullets (9mm-.45 ACP) have a tendency to do this more effectively than the smaller calibers (.25, .22LR).

More important than stopping power is the ability to properly place the round in the target. Center mass (heart, lungs, spinal column) is the most effective area to place the shot (head shots, though not impossible to make, are often difficult in a "stress fire" situation).

As such, I'd advise Yohimbo to visit his local range and test fire pistols of different calibers and find out which he is the most comfortable and accurate with. Go with the largest round that you can effectively and consistently place in the kill zone.

For home defense go with a shotgun using a light load, #6 birdshot, for example. Bullets can and will penetrate doors, walls, etc. and pose a danger to others--especially in an apartment/condo scenario. Plus, as someone else correctly mentioned, a shotgun being cycled for in preparation for firing has a sound that will often stop an intruder in their tracks and send them them running.

If they choose not to flee, keep in mind that an intruder does not break into your home to talk or make new friends. Their socio or economic deprivation is nothing that should be taken into consideration--NOT your problem, in other words. Your responsibility is to your family and yourself. If the intruder does not comply with your instructions--if they take so much as a step in your direction--do not hesitate to pull the trigger.

:D

-stray-

[DubiousComforts]

I am hoping for some feedback regarding the stopping power
Who or what are you trying to stop, Jimbo?

[Exatreides]

Personally I like to think what could stop Giant rabid bears... You know like the kind that scare the shit out of you in Condemned 2.

What do I need to stop that.

[DubiousComforts]

Personally I like to think what could stop Giant rabid bears... You know like the kind that scare the shit out of you in Condemned 2.

What do I need to stop that.
A good cheat code?

[Exatreides]

Where I'm from...We don't have cheat codes for Rabid bears.

[Wooley]

I'll +1 to what others have said about shot placement being more important than caliber, renting each gun and seeing which one you find more accurate and controllable, and then add buy lots of cheap practice ammo for it and hit the range with it, maybe even consider some kind of professional training.

Training would be very helpful in learning how to recongize a bad situation and therefore avoid it, or try to minimize it, as well as how to improve your ability with the gun, learn malfunction drills, reload drills, and tactics like retention, room clearing, and such to make you more effective if it does come down to settling things with hot lead.

Then get some good, reliable defensive ammo-Golden Sabers, Hydrashoks, Hornaday TAP, etc, and then put the rest in the hands of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You'll have done the best you can.

Oh, and the difference size wise between a 9mm and a .40 is about .05ths of an inch, since the 9mm is a .35 caliber bullet or 35/100ths of an inch wide and the .40 is well, 40/100ths of an inch. Lots of people think that because their gun's caliber starts with a 4, it's some kind of magical death ray. It's not. There's been failures to stop people from harming others after being shot with everything up to a .50 BMG and a 20mm cannon.

[Publius]

The 45. is an ass kicker. It definatley has stopping power because the bullet is designed to create "hydrostatic shock" (at least the ammunition I shot.). I heard it is similar to getting hit with a cannon ball rather than the bullet going right through.

Obligatory zombie connection:

Hydrostatic shock as a wounding mechanism is somewhat controversial because most body tissues are more elastic than ballistic gelatin, and there is widespread disagreement about how much damage can be caused from what kind of bullets via ballistic shock waves. However, there is probably more agreement about hydrostatic shock from very high velocity rounds, like full-power rifle rounds. Some studies have shown damage to the brain from hits to the chest.

The brain? This suggests that with a big enough, fast enough projectile, you may be able to take out zombies with a chest shot. It would be awesome to see a demonstration of this in a movie, maybe with someone using a .50 BMG sniper rifle to kill zombies with long-range center-of-mass shots.

[Yojimbo]

Who or what are you trying to stop, Jimbo?

My wife and I likely will spend a lot of time and money at the range shooting at these things and hope that we never have to shoot at anything else.

http://www.rimrockfirearms.com/targets.html

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------



Training would be very helpful in learning how to recongize a bad situation and therefore avoid it, or try to minimize it, as well as how to improve your ability with the gun, learn malfunction drills, reload drills, and tactics like retention, room clearing, and such to make you more effective if it does come down to settling things with hot lead.


Excellent point, Wooley. I think that all gun owners should be required by law to go through training exactly like you mentioned. As it is now, at least in California, there is a lame written test primarily concerned with basic gun safety that has to be passed in order to purchase. Far too little!

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------



I think it's a good idea to find a range that rents guns, give each a try, and see what feels most comfortable for you.
I totally agree with you and the other posters that stressed range time. Since my wife might need to pick up this piece at some point and fire it, it is vital that the recoil/weight be manageable not only for me but for her as well, and finding this out before purchasing is an extremely good idea. Once the decision on which piece to purchase is made, proficiency can only be had through practice and drilling.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------



For home defense go with a shotgun using a light load, #6 birdshot, for example. Bullets can and will penetrate doors, walls, etc. and pose a danger to others--especially in an apartment/condo scenario. Plus, as someone else correctly mentioned, a shotgun being cycled for in preparation for firing has a sound that will often stop an intruder in their tracks and send them them running.


I agree with you and Skippy, the sound of a 12 gauge pump is the best defense. I do have an old Mossberg 500 with a modified choke barrel that is just way, way too long, that I intend to retrofit with the shortest barrel legally allowed in my state. That being said, even with a short barrel it is way too heavy for my wife. Maybe it's time I think about one of those Taurus Judge .410/45 revovlers for the nightstand? Yeah, I know that lacks the pump action sound (which is the point) but those things look so cool!

[strayrider]

Yeah, I know that lacks the pump action sound (which is the point) but those things look so cool!

Although the "sound" of the gun being pumped does have psychological value, the point is to be able to neutralize your target.

I really can't comment on the effectiveness of the Tauris Judge .410/.45LC combo. I've never owned, or fired one.

If you're wanting something that your wife can utilize, you may want to go with a sub-compact pistol (whatever model and caliber that SHE is most comfortable with). Just keep in mind that if you're using it as a "nightstand" pistol keep it loaded with hollow-point bullets. The hollow-points expand and are less likely to over-penetrate whatever they strike making them less likely to hurt someone that you did not intend to shoot.

You have to make the ultimate decision, Yoh, whatever you and your wife are most comfortable with (in the largest caliber possible).

:D

-stray-

ps-- but hey! Why stop with a single gun purchase? Get one for her and one for you! Then buy more! You can NEVER own too many guns.

[Yojimbo]

but hey! Why stop with a single gun purchase? Get one for her and one for you! Then buy more! You can NEVER own too many guns.
Whatever caliber the auto I get ends up being,9mm or .40, I still like that .410/.45 taurus - though it was a matter of folly and sort of a joke that I mentioned it.

I own several revolvers - charter arms undercover and S&W Airweight both snub.38s, and a Ruger Speed Six 357, also a snub. My house loads are semi-wadcutters that I have cross grooved (though perhaps I should switch to hollowpoints as you mentioned for saftey reasons since I do have some semi-jacketed hollowpoint .38 +p at my disposal) My current nightstand piece is the Ruger and the S&W my wife's. At the range, she is decidely the better shot even though I'm the one that trained her.

Maybe I can talk her into allowing me to purchase both a Glock and and the Taurus? Well, I can dream, at least!

[Publius]

If you're wanting something that your wife can utilize, you may want to go with a sub-compact pistol (whatever model and caliber that SHE is most comfortable with).

A subcompact pistol and a tape recorder with the sound of a shotgun being racked. :p

[slickwilly13]

Why the angry face outside the topic? Is someone going get killed?

[AcesandEights]

Why the angry face outside the topic? Is someone going get killed?

I just came in here to ask the same question! :lol:

I'd been following the thread the last few days, without anything useful to add, but just noticed the angry face this morning.

[Yojimbo]

I just came in here to ask the same question! :lol:

I'd been following the thread the last few days, without anything useful to add, but just noticed the angry face this morning.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. You know, I had put that up some time ago when the functionality had been first added to the site- apparently at that time my mood was brooding, though now I cannot recall why I was in a sour mood that day - and I promptly forgot about it so it has remained that way ever since. I am going to change that today since discussions of firearms should be a happy- not brooding- thing.

[childofgilead]

The problem with high velocity rounds such as the 9mm and .40, especially in +P or +P+ is that they can pass straight through a target without transferring any energy INTO the target.

It'd be the equivalent of being stabbed with a pencil. Or a crayon going REALLY fast. heh.

Many lesser quality "defense" rounds do not properly deform, and their expense generally means you can't test them much to make sure they feed properly. (many weapons, even though overbuilt to handle the pressure may still not feed them properly)

Whatever you choose, shot placement is key. That weapon is no more useful than a brick if you can't confidently and consistently place shots center mass.

The point isn't just being accurate, it's being able to clear jams with high adrenaline, in the dark with someone screaming in your ear or coming at you with a hunting knife.

Self defense is complicated!

[strayrider]

I own several revolvers

So you're not a gun "newbie" then. If you're simply seeking an automatic handgun forget everything that was mentioned and go with this:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=2

Anything (and everything) else is a waste of time. Go for it. You owe it to yourself. You deserve it!

:D

-stray-

[Arcades057]

Just wanted to correct a few things here:

1: Please, do not ever suggest that the sound of a shotgun being readied to fire is a valuable defensive strategy. If it was said in jest, then forgive my righteous indignation. This is an old, old wives' tale like "it's best to use birdshot in your defense shotgun. To test this theory grab a sheet of plywood and stand 8 feet from it (typical engagement range for self-defense shootings) and put a round of birdshot into it. Then fire a round of 00 buck. All of you remember that Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head and neck with a shotgun at close range; that was birdshot. Buckshot, and Cheney would've been out one friend.

2: Even if a round "over-penetrates," or goes through its target, the area through which the wound passes is left with a wound cavity, as shown here:

http://sites.google.com/site/gagglegnash/_/rsrc/1258643263662/what-me-done/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg
The fragmenting of the round is not nearly as important as the wound cavity. The cavity is what kills you, by the way, not the 9mm-in-diameter bullet happening upon an artery or organ.

3:
if you're using it as a "nightstand" pistol keep it loaded with hollow-point bullets
I would suggest, unless you're planning to engage a home-invader wearing multiple layers of denim or light body-armor (in other words, if you live in a fatasy world or are a drug-dealer) use holow-point or hydrashock for all of your defense weapons.

4:
Excellent point, Wooley. I think that all gun owners should be required by law to go through training exactly like you mentioned. As it is now, at least in California, there is a lame written test primarily concerned with basic gun safety that has to be passed in order to purchase. Far too little!

VERY slippery slope. Being a fundamental right guaranteed through the 2nd Amendment and the Bill of Rights, the right to bear arms is, or at least should be, protected by the same protections under law as voting, being safe from illegal search & seizure, and freely expressing your mind/practicing your religion. The more caveats added to that right (as in mandating classes or something for prospective gun owners) will form a precedent which could later be used to abridge other rights. Picture having to take a civics exam prior to voting, or losing your right to have freedom in your affairs from search and seizure after getting a speeding ticket.

5:
Personally I like to think what could stop Giant rabid bears... You know like the kind that scare the shit out of you in Condemned 2.

10mm will take down a charging fricken Rancor, so go with that. :D

[Yojimbo]

I just came in here to ask the same question! :lol:

I'd been following the thread the last few days, without anything useful to add, but just noticed the angry face this morning.

In my earlier post I misunderstod and thought you were talking about the "mood" feature under my user name, but I now see that angry face on the post list. Someone angry?

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------


VERY slippery slope. Being a fundamental right guaranteed through the 2nd Amendment and the Bill of Rights, the right to bear arms is, or at least should be, protected by the same protections under law as voting, being safe from illegal search & seizure, and freely expressing your mind/practicing your religion. The more caveats added to that right (as in mandating classes or something for prospective gun owners) will form a precedent which could later be used to abridge other rights. Picture having to take a civics exam prior to voting, or losing your right to have freedom in your affairs from search and seizure after getting a speeding ticket.

:D

Very true - points well taken. Thanks brother!

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------


So you're not a gun "newbie" then. If you're simply seeking an automatic handgun forget everything that was mentioned and go with this:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=2

Anything (and everything) else is a waste of time. Go for it. You owe it to yourself. You deserve it!

:D

-stray-
Nice! Always wanted one of those!

[strayrider]

1: Please, do not ever suggest that the sound of a shotgun being readied to fire is a valuable defensive strategy. If it was said in jest, then forgive my righteous indignation. This is an old, old wives' tale like "it's best to use birdshot in your defense shotgun. To test this theory grab a sheet of plywood and stand 8 feet from it (typical engagement range for self-defense shootings) and put a round of birdshot into it. Then fire a round of 00 buck. All of you remember that Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head and neck with a shotgun at close range; that was birdshot. Buckshot, and Cheney would've been out one friend.

As I stated, the sound of a shotgun being actioned (or a pistol being cocked) can have a psychological affect on an intruder, but you are correct. "Scaring" someone is not your primary mission in a defensive situation.

The same can be said for simply showing the intruder that you are armed. They might take a hint and run for the door, or they might not. When you confront them expect the latter and fire without hesitation the second that they take a single step in your direction. Of course, if they do turn to run DO NOT shoot them in the back. (You'll have a hard time convincing a jury that someone was a threat if police find their body in your front yard with six bullet holes in their back).

Do not communicate with them except to issue commands for them to submit. For example: "DON'T MOVE OR I'LL SHOOT!" If this does not convince them of your intent and they make any attempt to close the gap between themselves and you, shoot them as many times as is needed to put them down.

In this case, do not worry if a shot or two hits them in the back. It has been proven that in "stress fire" situations the shooter is likely to continue pulling the trigger until the target is down. If the target happens to turn during the shooting (shying away from the pain and impact of the bullets) that is incidental damage. Your attorney (and you will need one in some cases) should be able to produce experts to testify (preferably police officers who have faced the same situation) on the tendency of a person to fire multiple rounds until a threat is neutralized. It is also advisable to not speak with anyone (your spouse and police included) about the shooting until you consult with your attorney.

The only reason that I mention the communication issue is because I read an article some years ago by an "expert" (an anti-gunner, if I remember correctly) who tells us "That it is better to negotiate with a criminal rather than resort to violence." Try to remember that they are a human being, just like you, with thoughts and emotions--they laugh and they cry, they live and they love. It is not their fault that they must resort to crime due to social or economic injustice. Included in this article were quotes from inmates from various prisons who didn't believe it was "right" for someone to be able to shoot them just because they broke into a house. Take that into consideration before you go "blowing away" some poor person creeping around your home in the middle of the night looking for something to steal to sell for "food" (for their kids, of course, what good parent wouldn't resort to home break-in to feed their kids?).

Ah, I'm off on a tangent...back on topic...

The matter of using birdshot for HD is one that is constantly being debated. Some say "yes"; others "no". I favor it because it is less likely to penetrate walls, floors, doors, etc. inside an apartment or condo.

At closer ranges it has the ability to act as a "slug" and penetrate several inches into a human body producing an incapacitating wound.

Dick Cheney's friend was "speckled" by a few stray pellets of birdshot at a distance of 30 yards or so. At that range the shot pattern had spread nullifying the "slug" effect. Had Cheney hit him at a shorter range (say 2 yards) the wound would have probably been fatal.

:D

-stray-

[Skippy911sc]

I view this a lot like stray does. My intention is to protect my family not kill the intruder. I keep a .357 in my nightstand, but I would rather hit the alarm and let the noise of the alarm scare the intruder away. My brother in law had someone trying to break into his house and, believe it or not, the sound of his 870 was enough to scare that guy away. I don't really know how I would feel if I killed someone in my own home. But I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by six.

[Arcades057]

But I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by six.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

[fulci fan]

Keep in mind that most people robbing your house don't want trouble. They don't want there to be a chance of them being killed. This is why criminals target people that appear weaker on the street. There is less chance of the criminal being hurt or killed.

And always keep in mind: You must be in danger to kill someone and it will take an emotional and mental tole on you. This ain't a movie.

[Yojimbo]

My intention is to protect my family not kill the intruder

Agreed. Defense of family and myself is my only goal. Actions taken in this regard are not to be done without reason.

[general tbag]

wow alot of misinformation about loads, calibers and such, number 1 that pic of a glock 20 isnt a .40, it a 10mm not even in the same league

the 10mm is a evolved round after the fbi found the 9mm to be to small to use after the 1986 FBI Miami shootout.The 10 mm evolved into the .40, and the .45 was done away as the caliber is to large to subdue suspects, it considered a killing round aka a military round.

to even stress the point about 9mm, youll be very hard pressed to find any law enforcement weapons for sale by manufactures in 9mm, for the most part it been done away in favor of the .40sw and .45 .9mm is more of a sporting round. It be very apparent when the military does away with the m9.

For home protection for sure the 9mm and heres why , it easier caliber to control in small spaces, you can control your shots,( yea you maybe be shooting at a robber, but if u miss your shots, you could wind up hurting other people other than the robber) and high magazine capacity.Those examples actually give you a better tactical advantage.myself i can zero in the 9mm on a target faster than a .40 on multiple shots.

if it stopping power for sure the .40 over the 9mm, but when every second counts you would rather have a tactical advantage in a life or death situation.

honestly get a 12 guage, when people hear the cocking of the pump most people know that sound, even robbers lol

[Arcades057]

wow alot of misinformation about loads, calibers and such, number 1 that pic of a glock 20 isnt a .40, it a 10mm not even in the same league

the 10mm is a evolved round after the fbi found the 9mm to be to small to use after the 1986 FBI Miami shootout.The 10 mm evolved into the .40, and the .45 was done away as the caliber is to large to subdue suspects, it considered a killing round aka a military round.

to even stress the point about 9mm, youll be very hard pressed to find any law enforcement weapons for sale by manufactures in 9mm, for the most part it been done away in favor of the .40sw and .45 .9mm is more of a sporting round. It be very apparent when the military does away with the m9.

For home protection for sure the 9mm and heres why , it easier caliber to control in small spaces, you can control your shots,( yea you maybe be shooting at a robber, but if u miss your shots, you could wind up hurting other people other than the robber) and high magazine capacity.Those examples actually give you a better tactical advantage.myself i can zero in the 9mm on a target faster than a .40 on multiple shots.

if it stopping power for sure the .40 over the 9mm, but when every second counts you would rather have a tactical advantage in a life or death situation.

honestly get a 12 guage, when people hear the cocking of the pump most people know that sound, even robbers lol

After reading this, I think your gun "knowledge" comes from playing video games.

[Publius]

The 10 mm evolved into the .40, and the .45 was done away as the caliber is to large to subdue suspects, it considered a killing round aka a military round.

:rockbrow:

Huh? So they shoot to wound with the 9mm and .40S&W?


It be very apparent when the military does away with the m9.

Let us know when that happens. Apparently so far the U.S. military along with the rest of NATO has not realized that they're using a sporting round rather than a military round.

This is particularly ironic when you consider that the round is called 9x19mm Parabellum. Para bellum being Latin for "for war."

[Exatreides]

Having fired both the 9mm with the Army (standard medic sidearm to compliment my M4a1/m16a2) and the .45

I personally feel more comfy with the 9mm Beretta 92fs then most other pistols, but thats probably because I've fired it more.

[Skippy911sc]

I know of several people in the service who, when given the choice, decided not to carry a side arm because it was a 9. It meant, in there opinion, it did not have the stopping power they wanted, and they would have to keep another gun clean.

I did not think Arcades057 reasoning or knowledge came from a game, he has an opinion just like the rest of us. 10 mm is not the most common of calibers around. It sound like yojimbo probably has a shotty, mossberg I think he stated so the need for another one is mute. Go to a range, with the wife, and try all the calibers. Find one that best suites your need, it is a tool after-all.

I prefer the .45, because I have shot it so often, I also have the 357 in the nightstand because it is a wheel gun and works every time. I know of several departments that still issue 45s, in fact I saw one transition from 9 to 40 to 45 in a matter of a few years.

The caliber on chooses is much like the brand or type of gun they choose. I do not like the Glock or the polymer type guns but that is my opinion, and I kow of several who love them, that is theirs.

Try em out and let us know whet you wind up with, and don't forget the pictures!!!

[Arcades057]

I also have the 357 in the nightstand because it is a wheel gun and works every time.

I must be the only person in the world of gun-owners who vehemently hates the revolver. That being said, I take nothing away from their reliability and ease of use; it's just a personal prejudice I have against them.

If you have a Myspace account, check out some of these links here of us blowing stuff up.

Me firing full-auto (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=61539355)

Buddy shooting a .500 Nitro (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=61582907)

Me shooting an asshole noisy-cricket (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=61539091)

Us going through about 100 bucks in a second (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=61494074)

[strayrider]

I must be the only person in the world of gun-owners who vehemently hates the revolver

I own one revolver--a Ruger Vaquero, single action, chambered for .45 Colt. I take it out to the range on those lazy days of summer. It takes me about an hour to go through a box of 50. Fun stuff!

http://www.ruger.com/products/vaqueroStainless/models.html
Mine has Rosewood grips, BTW.

:D

-stray-

[Arcades057]

There might be a video floating around the net somewhere of me firing a pair of .45 Colt revolvers with cowboy loads at a pair of empty propane tanks (the rounds pancake on the thin metal; we found some after shooting that were the size of half-dollars).

I had a bad experience with one of these...

http://web.jet.es/rafa/spsteel_llama_supercomanche.jpg
This POS is called the Llama Super Comanche, chamber in .357. They fizz up like a firework when the bullet fires off-center from the barrel.