When did linearity in games become a bad thing?

[Danny]

So Final Fantasy 13 comes out tomorrow and ive been watching the video reviews all the sites have been doing and so far the biggest "fault" with the game is that it is "linear". Am i the only person wondering why this is a bad thing in a story driven rpg?
I played final fantasy X and its an almost straight line up a continent from besaid to zanarkand and that game was superb. On the flipside final fantasy 8 had great characters and an intriguing plot, but the open world parts where poorely textured, sparsely populated messes.
I honestly wonder when it became wrong to have linear rpgs? lets looks at the shooter genre, gears of war and halo is super linear. you follow a path from plot point to plot point. but it doesnt matter, if the gameplay is good, the art styles fantastic and the soundtrack great to hear what does it matter that you cant spend hours running in a random direction?
Sure when its done well, like oblivion, an open world rpg is great, but its not the best idea for rpgs like final fantasy. dont get me wrong i enjoyed it in earlier ones, getting the airship in 9 rocked. but go back to 12, made by the same team as 13, and it was random zoned areas to act as an open world and it was a mess where you had very little direction in it.
Though this aint a rant against open worlds, im just very surprised how every single review finds a fault with linear gameplay.

no doubt this with have the same reviewers bitching that alan wake has faults because they made that no longer open world because it fit the story better.:rolleyes:

[Eyebiter]

People like choices and the freedom to explore on their own.

[mista_mo]

Yes, but at the same time, there is only so much "non linear" gameplay that is possible before the story suffers. There is nothing wrong with a game being linear, but I do enjoy being able to choose the order of my actions.

Take Mass Effect for instance. The game is comprised of a series of main quest missions that must be done to fully advance the plot. The order that you do them however, is entirely up to the player. The game is still linear, but there are choices that the player can make to decide the path he or she wants to take to fully advance the plot line.

As long as the game has tight gameplay, and some choices the character can make in regards to completion of said game, and as long as the game is of a moderate length (10-18 hours or so) then I don't see anything wrong with it being slightly linear.

Shooters are the biggest culprit when it comes to linear gameplay though, but it fits the game style.

tl;dr,

nothing wrong with a game being linear as long as it is well produced, plays well, is relatively long, and is a moderate challenge.

[CooperWasRight]

Yes, but at the same time, there is only so much "non linear" gameplay that is possible before the story suffers. There is nothing wrong with a game being linear, but I do enjoy being able to choose the order of my actions.

Take Mass Effect for instance. The game is comprised of a series of main quest missions that must be done to fully advance the plot. The order that you do them however, is entirely up to the player. The game is still linear, but there are choices that the player can make to decide the path he or she wants to take to fully advance the plot line.

As long as the game has tight gameplay, and some choices the character can make in regards to completion of said game, and as long as the game is of a moderate length (10-18 hours or so) then I don't see anything wrong with it being slightly linear.

Shooters are the biggest culprit when it comes to linear gameplay though, but it fits the game style.

tl;dr,

nothing wrong with a game being linear as long as it is well produced, plays well, is relatively long, and is a moderate challenge.

Mass effect is NOT linear. If 2 people can play the game from beginning to end and meet different people,go on different missions have different relationships and have different endings... Then they are NOT playing a linear game.

Also it seems silly that playing a game that calls it self a role playing game and yet you cannot make any choices that impact the world or outcome...It really seems dated for the genre...And frankly doesn't sound like an rpg... That does not mean it wont be an awesome game.

[CoinReturn]

There aren't any towns in FFXIII, what were they thinking? And from what I've heard, the soundtrack isn't up to par either. Overall it's looking like a huge disappointment because of the developers stubbornness to stick to JRPG tradition. People want something new, and Final Fantasy is the antithesis to innovation. I hope it bombs so that Square Enix learns a lesson, they haven't made a classic RPG in a decade or more.

[EvilNed]

A linear RPG without choices and freedom is not an RPG. It's an adventure game.

[darth los]

A linear RPG without choices and freedom is not an RPG. It's an adventure game.

True dat ! :thumbsup:

:cool:

[clanglee]

Yeah but the main quest has to be somewhat linear. You have to have the main quest. . or rather I do. . .otherwise the game gets boring. . with no real goal to achieve.

[krakenslayer]

In a truly non-linear, open world game, you wouldn't need to worry about "story". Story would take care of itself. The naturally-occurring series of cause-and-effect events, allegiances, relationships and outcomes witnessed and participated-in by the player would BE the "story". Sadly the only example (so far) of this kind of game in real life is, well, real life. :lol:

I'm not saying linearity is always bad. A well-written story is usually more interesting and poetic than real-life-style events tend to be. I love old-school adventure games (Monkey Island, Leisure Suit Larry, Beneath a Steel Sky, etc.), but I think more role playing games should probably strive towards non-linearity in order to give the player more freedom in the ROLE they are PLAYING.

[darth los]

Yeah but the main quest has to be somewhat linear. You have to have the main quest. . or rather I do. . .otherwise the game gets boring. . with no real goal to achieve.

That i agree with. But In Oblivion or Mass effect you can do it in any order you like. Or You can ignore the main quest indefinitely and just do side missions.

Choice is good. Now, When a game forces you to do something (Like when GTA makes me complete those god- forsaken driving missions in order to advance the story)... Big turnoff dude.

:cool:

[slickwilly13]

What a let down. I have waited 4 or 5 years for this. Unless the reviews are damn good, then I may rent or wait for a huge price drop.

[slickwilly13]

I know some people own a copy. Anyone play it, yet? The reviews are getting better, so I may give it a chance. There is a beta for FF 14 which is a lot like FF 11. If I apply for the beta I may get in, because of my status with Sony.

[darth los]

I know some people own a copy. Anyone play it, yet? The reviews are getting better, so I may give it a chance. There is a beta for FF 14 which is a lot like FF 11. If I apply for the beta I may get in, because of my status with Sony.


I'm still waiting on my copy from gamefly. It hasn't arrived yet unfortunately, but I tend not to listen to reviews. I'd rather judge for myself.

:cool:

[Danny]

I know some people own a copy. Anyone play it, yet? The reviews are getting better, so I may give it a chance. There is a beta for FF 14 which is a lot like FF 11. If I apply for the beta I may get in, because of my status with Sony.

im about 14 hours into it and its honestly better than 12, but also kinda more cliche'. The graphics, and im playing the ps3 version, are outstanding for the most part. though even on the blu ray i saw one instance of models popping in and lightnings arms still have polygonal edges in some scenes for some reason.
gameplay its still final fantasy, but like none youve ever played, based on what paradigms, think mini job classes, youve switched to at that second in a fight the whole party could wipe in a second. you only ever control one, the current story focus, and if they die, game over, though you restart instantly to where you were before the fight started so its no biggie to wipe like in previous games in the series.
The game is actually really fast paced for an rpg, it makes mass effect feel slow. When you really get into it and your changing paradigms across your party enough so an enemy with 129,000hp dies in less than 80 seconds and you used 14 different paradigms in the one fight its like just spinning the ps3 controller around in your hands really fast your hitting so many buttons so fast.
But you can slow it down and set the fights to auto if your real lazy so its not impossible. in fact a friend of mine couldnt cope with how fast paced it can get and had trouble with the slowdown version.

Theres no levels in this. The sphere grids back, which i loved, only now its the cristalis grid. based on how well you did in a fight, and how many enemies you took on you gain cristarium points, or CP, with you spend to move along a path, with little offshoots, in each paradigm.
For example lightning starts with the commando paradigm, basically the warrior class, and vanille with the medic, the white magic. say you get 500cp, you might move far enough to move through an orb point like +20hp or learn cura. as you beat bosses you gain higher levels of each paradigm on the grids, and more grids. right now im on chapter 6 and my lightning has fully covered the stage 5 commando, ravager "red mage" and medic grids. so in a fight i can switch her paradigms at literally any point in real time to go from casting firaga, right into cura.
It takes some getting used to but its a breath of fresh air for turn based rpgs really. though sometimes you WILL wipe about 3 seconds after the fight starts.

i could go on about it more but im only so far into it and i know theres lots more in store. basically it takes elements from ten and twelve and adds enough new stuff in to be a new game and not just another update of the same game. Its no final fantasy 6 or 10 thats for sure, but even so far in i can say its the best jrpg of this console generation.

[LouCipherr]

My only question about the game is this: Final Fantasy 13?

That's an oxymoron if i've ever seen one. :D


As far as linear game play - i don't mind it, but it depends on what game it is. Sometimes I like the sandbox idea of the GTA's and the like, but sometimes I like a well structured game that pushes me through a determined timeline/storyline. It just depends on my mood I guess - but I don't see anything "wrong" with linear gameplay. Not sure why it's considered a "drawback."

[MinionZombie]

Linearity has a time and a place. What makes it bad though, is when you're playing in a game and it really feels more like a corridor, than a game world, if you know what I mean.

[Tricky]

Linearity has a time and a place. What makes it bad though, is when you're playing in a game and it really feels more like a corridor, than a game world, if you know what I mean.

I've found the latest Alien vs Predator game to be a lot like that, dont get me wrong I have been enjoying a lot of it, but it could have been so much better if it had been a bit more open world! Every level in the game feels like a small arena, you kill everything in that small area & then move on to the next bit, theres lots of barriers & locked doors that you cant get past & you have very little freedom to explore the colony, especially as the marine where if you hang about to look at something or try to explore a bit, you start getting hounded over the radio to stay on mission by that tequila character, leaving you wishing you could switch off your radio!
Its slightly less linear as the Alien or Predator, but thats only because you can clamber all over the scenery, your still restricted to the same small areas.
Linear AI characters annoy me as well, in AvP when your stalking marines as the predator or alien, they follow set patterns, only have a few lines in their vocabulary & even if they spot you, you only have to hide for 10 seconds & they just go back to their patrol routes as if nothing happened, its all ridiculously predictable! These days I like games where the AI is emergent & actually behaves more like a living character, and I know it can be done as ive seen it plenty of times in games like Arma 2, and even the Far Cry games

[darth los]

Don't forget the left 4 dead series as well. Imo the A.I. director is where games are going in the future.

I swear i never have gotten the replayability out of any game that i have gotten out of that one.

I'd easily pay 100 bucks for it.

:cool:

[slickwilly13]

I'm still waiting on my copy from gamefly. It hasn't arrived yet unfortunately, but I tend not to listen to reviews. I'd rather judge for myself.

:cool:

I usually do, but in some cases I listen to the true fans and not Game Informer or IGN.

Btw, I nutted up and bought it for PS3 20 minutes ago. I took it off my Gamefly list, since they are sending me the 360 version of Bully. I wasn't expecting that, since Bully was at the bottom of my 10 list. I was actually expecting either Mass Effect 2 or Bioshock 2. No big deal.

If I get access to the beta I will keep everyone posted and discuss only what I am allowed to. Thanks for the feedback.

Also, I am now on Spring BreaK. :cool:

[Eyebiter]

Linearity has a time and a place. What makes it bad though, is when you're playing in a game and it really feels more like a corridor, than a game world, if you know what I mean.

Downtown DC in FALLOUT 3 is like that. Instead of moving along streets they use rubble choked streets, buildings with no doors, impassable chain link fences, and invisible walls to keep the player from going in a straight line.

The saving grace for that game is outside in the wasteland there is room to explore and maneuver.

Most games work best with an overarching campaign goal, then with various minor quests. Some have few consequences, others will directly effect how the character is viewed in the future.

[darth los]

I usually do, but in some cases I listen to the true fans and not Game Informer or IGN.

Btw, I nutted up and bought it for PS3 20 minutes ago. I took it off my Gamefly list, since they are sending me the 360 version of Bully. I wasn't expecting that, since Bully was at the bottom of my 10 list. I was actually expecting either Mass Effect 2 or Bioshock 2. No big deal.

If I get access to the beta I will keep everyone posted and discuss only what I am allowed to. Thanks for the feedback.

Also, I am now on Spring BreaK. :cool:


If you wanna get a new release from gamefly the only way to do it is to have it in your q before the release (obviously) and to have a game sent back before the releasedate so that you are gauranteed a slot.

For example: I'm on the 4 game at a time plan. I have 3 at home and one slot free. That way next monday it'll ship to me virtually gauranteed.

Also, make sure that there's nothing else in your q but things that are coming soon. Because as you have already seen, they will skip everything and send you a game that's way down on your list.

:cool:

[MinionZombie]

Downtown DC in FALLOUT 3 is like that. Instead of moving along streets they use rubble choked streets, buildings with no doors, impassable chain link fences, and invisible walls to keep the player from going in a straight line.

The saving grace for that game is outside in the wasteland there is room to explore and maneuver.

Most games work best with an overarching campaign goal, then with various minor quests. Some have few consequences, others will directly effect how the character is viewed in the future.
Aye that is a fair point. I'd find myself trying to avoid those areas as much as possible in the game, simply because they were more restrictive, and it was kind of annoying. Some rubble you could get over, other stuff you couldn't, and then you'd find yourself going "how the hell do I get from here, to there?!" and you'd probably have to go through a subway to get there - after which point I'd, naturally, just teleport there through my PipBoy thingymajig.

Beyond that though, the world felt really open ... huge even. Very satisfying ultimately.