This Day In History: Remembering The Patriots

[Purge]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

[Publius]

Perhaps you mean "remembering the clusterf**k." There were no heroes in that messed-up situation.

[clanglee]

Wait, which side had the patriots again? :confused:

[ProfessorChaos]

wasn't the oklahoma city boming on this date as well?

[Exatreides]

Remembering the patriots? The religious wacko's in Waco? The only hero's there were the law enforcement officers who tried to save the women in children in there.

[JDFP]

Oh, wow, the Waco incident... been a long time since I've looked into that.

That's where the government ensured the death of about 75 people due to irresponsibility in leading to a fire that blocked people into the compound (after collapsing a floor of a building onto people so they couldn't get out)-- of course, this was all at the brilliant behest of Janet Reno, one of the greatest insults to America in the last 20 years.

Branch Davidians, a cult for sure, but the government's response and actions led to a great number of deaths (including many members of the ATF due to even greater government irresponsibility). Bravo, federal government, another shining example of your inability to properly handle a situation that could have been much better handled and preferably resolved without the death of so many people.

Man, this isn't even a political issue, it was just pure shitty tactics and irresponsible action.

j.p.

[SRP76]

I remember the Patriots every day. I'm a huge fan. Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe, Andre Tippett, Randy Moss, Tedy Bruschi...

[Publius]

wasn't the oklahoma city boming on this date as well?

It's also the anniversary of the Battles of Lexington and Concord in 1775. A more appropriate reason for remembering patriots (it's actually a holiday called Patriots' Day for that reason in Massachusetts and a couple other states).

[Exatreides]

It was also oddly enough, Israeli memorial day. What are the odds eh?

[mista_mo]

It was also oddly enough, Israeli memorial day. What are the odds eh?

Clearly this must be a Jewish conspiracy to conquer all American holidays.

[Purge]

Wait, which side had the patriots again? :confused:

The Davidians.

[darth los]

wasn't the oklahoma city boming on this date as well?

Yes. There was a special on msnbc last night about it.

:cool:

[Wooley]

April 19th also marks the day the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto rose up with a few handguns, rifles and explosives and held off the Wermacht and SS longer than the Polish Army did.

[SymphonicX]

Oh, wow, the Waco incident... been a long time since I've looked into that.

That's where the government ensured the death of about 75 people due to irresponsibility in leading to a fire that blocked people into the compound (after collapsing a floor of a building onto people so they couldn't get out)-- of course, this was all at the brilliant behest of Janet Reno, one of the greatest insults to America in the last 20 years.

Branch Davidians, a cult for sure, but the government's response and actions led to a great number of deaths (including many members of the ATF due to even greater government irresponsibility). Bravo, federal government, another shining example of your inability to properly handle a situation that could have been much better handled and preferably resolved without the death of so many people.

Man, this isn't even a political issue, it was just pure shitty tactics and irresponsible action.

j.p.


I saw a documentary on them yearrrrrrrrrs ago, from what I remember their only crime was holding weapons and using them for "training" - am I right in remembering that the ATF and FBI got involved and essentially caused a siege where only a few people managed to get out alive - with the rest boarding themselves up inside until they were burnt out?

Wasn't the burning caused by fire tanks?

Also, they played Barney the Dinosaur at full volume for hours to wreck their state of mind from what I recall...

[Publius]

I saw a documentary on them yearrrrrrrrrs ago, from what I remember their only crime was holding weapons and using them for "training" - am I right in remembering that the ATF and FBI got involved and essentially caused a siege where only a few people managed to get out alive - with the rest boarding themselves up inside until they were burnt out?

That's more or less the case. Claims were made that they possessed illegal machine guns, but I don't think any evidence of that was found. Allegations of child abuse were thrown in for PR purposes, but that's not the territory of the BATF, which conducted the raid.


Wasn't the burning caused by fire tanks?

That's a much-disputed question. The tanks were there to inject CS gas (tear gas) into the compound. There's some evidence that the tear gas may have reached lethal levels in some areas, but I think the best evidence shows that the fire was started by the Branch Davidians themselves.

[Exatreides]

Don't forget that he claimed he was god, had sex with multiple women and young girls some as young as 13 years old.

He was a nutcase and a physco. And I thank the Federal Government for moving in and stopping it before it spread any more and anyone else was hurt.

The only hero's at Waco were the ATF officers who died during it, and those that were brainwashed into staying.

[Publius]

Don't forget that he claimed he was god, had sex with multiple women and young girls some as young as 13 years old.

He was a nutcase and a physco. And I thank the Federal Government for moving in and stopping it before it spread any more and anyone else was hurt.

Again, the feds moving in had nothing to do with the horrible behavior in your first paragraph. The BATF doesn't handle any of that stuff. They were investigating gun charges, period, and screwed it up massively.

[Purge]

The only hero's at Waco were the ATF officers who died during it, and those that were brainwashed into staying.

Are you kidding me? They intentionally set fire to the compound and burned it to the ground with women and children in it--and then ran their damn flag up a nearby flag pole minutes afterward.

[Wooley]

Don't forget that he claimed he was god, had sex with multiple women and young girls some as young as 13 years old.

Uh, innocent until proven guilty, remember? Besides, the state of Texas had sent investigators out to the Davidian's crib multiple times and each time found no evidence to substantiate the claims of child molestation and other sex crimes.



He was a nutcase and a physco. And I thank the Federal Government for moving in and stopping it before it spread any more and anyone else was hurt.


Nutcase and psycho? Is that your professional medical opinion? Sane until proven otherwise. And the second part makes disturbs me that you're thanking officials who killed almost everyone in the compound on the day of the final assault. You don't thank people who fuck up that badly.



The only hero's at Waco were the ATF officers who died during it, and those that were brainwashed into staying.

There were no heros there. Only victims and perpetrators. Kinda telling that to this day, not a single Federal law enforcement officer has spent a day in prison or even been fired over what was clearly a case of massive incompetence and ineptitude that lead to the deaths of almost 90 American citizens. But they tried their damndest to put the Davidians who survived in prison on a cop killer rap.

[Wyldwraith]

Here's something very telling,
Even by the admission of the Danforth Report, FBI obstruction of the Special Investigator's activities/investigation was comprehensive and clearly implicated over 100 FBI personnel in said cover-up. It's mentioned in passing that the agents involved in the cover-up were subjected to "Internal Disciplinary Action."

For the record, the most severe penalty suffered by any of these FBI employees/agents was a *Temporary* Non-Punitive Letter of Censure in their personnel jacket. Said Letters of Censure were removed no later than 120 days after their placement, resulted in no loss of pay or progress on the promotion track.

Argue what happened at Waco all you like. What is indisputable is that armed agents of our government lied repeatedly under oath, and during the ensuing investigation(s) into possible wrongdoing on their part.

We EXPECT the suspects/perpetrators to be committing criminal acts. If those charged with pursuing, monitoring and apprehending the worst and most dangerous our society has to offer piss on the very laws they swore to uphold, they destroy for all time any pretense of credibility or integrity in their agencies.

Personally, I've become so utterly disgusted by Federal Law Enforcement that I look on those killed "In the line of duty" as something slightly more important than the score racked up on an online arcade game, but slightly LESS important than the shape of the turd I dropped in the commode during my last BM.

They're no different than the Regulators of Lincoln County during the cattle wars. Just slicker and with a more officious air.