Avatar 2, 3, 4 & now 5 (films)

[Neil]

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Avatar-2-Will-Happen-Underwater-18192.html

[bassman]

*waits for the inevitable "AVATARD SUXX!!!1!!!" responses*

I enjoyed Avatar in Imax 3D. Sure, the story has been done before and bits of it were dull, but it's not as bad as most people make it out to be. It's just the cool thing to do right now - hate on Avatar. One thing that is undeniable though.....Cameron brought an amazing visual experience to the screen unlike anything before. THAT is what made Avatar great. The immersive experience into this new world that basically invaded your senses. The story could've used some work, but the invention of the new technology is where Cameron succeeded in spades.

This is where Avatar two will have to REALLY push the envelope in order to be a success. With the new 3D technology already explored in the first film, Cameron is going to have to bring something new to the table or come up with a more engaging story.

But this new 3D technology in an underwater environment? Yes please. That has the potential to be even more immersive than the first film. Just hopefully the script and storytelling process will get a bit more attention than the technology this go round.

[mista_mo]

I hope that the second film centers around the human initiative to destroy the perfect blue cat people. Like, you know, send in the actual military, instead of some mercenaries.

kill off the population, and mine to your hearts content! It will be great.

[AcesandEights]

Perfect sequel?

A short recap of the valiant effort of the blue people and their few human allies to stave off, defeat and finally push the greedy humans off the blue people's home planet, inter-cut with with new bits about how this drawing together of the disparate blue people clans was the true beginning of the blue people nation, which eventually led to their vast leaps in technology & social engineering, then military & technological supremacy and finally intergalactic primacy.

Pan back, off of the computer monitor of a young blue person in a classroom. As the blue person teacher goes on about the eventual defeat of the evil humans, pan to the window and down to the lawn of the well groomed school grounds and focus on the chained human slave tending to the bushes. Now quick pan upwards across the landscape (plane, then satellite level view) to see the American continent, then pan out again to a view of the planet earth.

Screen goes black, end credits roll.

[Danny]

These damn sequels are indicative of the horseshit that the movie industry has now become.

Try selling an idea of a film thats stand alone with no sequels or ability to franchise and you wont even get past explaining your idea. No sequel no chance nowadays. Ive specifically known people who had to go to eastern europe to get funding because EVERYONE in the west said "so can we alter the ending of your zombie movie? we really think a trilogy is where this could go" and he just wanted a stand alone film and really had to work to try and get funding. Now that i think about it i never did hear if it did get funding after all, although i may have heard he had to cave and sign up for a sequel as well.

[bassman]

Sequels are generally just a cash cow, this is true....BUT - This is James Cameron here. The arguable king of sequels. If anyone can make a decent sequel, it's him.

[bassman]

And Peter Jackson. :D

I would personally disagree with that, but yeah Jackson did turn in two decent sequels that met expectations. They're nowhere near as good as T2 and Aliens, though.

"All those movies were just walking! Even the trees walked!"
:lol:

[bassman]

ha....I thought I was the only member here that wasn't too impressed with the Ring trilogy.

I don't absoutely hate them, but they're overrated. As you said, mildly thrilling with decent visuals. Although the visuals are already starting to look dated, if you can believe that.:stunned:

[bassman]

Agreed. The story and execution was average, but the theater experience made up for it. This is why I most likely won't get it on Blu Ray for a while. It won't be near as good in a home setting without the good 3D. It's like Cameron spent more time and energy in the visuals than he did the story. It's a shame too, because if he had a better story it would have been a fantastic peice of cinema.

[EvilNed]

The Lord of the Rings was a visual sleeping pill released in three parts.

[mista_mo]

By the way, I think that this is the best thread to dump this in, but now you can all relax, and enjoy the feeling of being a perfect blue cat person.

http://reface.me/profile-pictures/avatarize-yourself/

I did it, and I have never felt happier or more fulfilled. Picture very related.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj300/realmoseph/avatar_character.jpg

I am so excited, that my eyes have changed size, and are slightly askew

[Neil]

The Lord Of The Ringpiece series is dire: mildly thrilling, great FX, but very little in the grand scheme of tangs. Gimme Bakshi's animation anyday.

<ducks for cover>

The Lord of the Rings was a visual sleeping pill released in three parts.



Have to disagree there... I love them!

[DjfunkmasterG]

So I guess they will be using this same plot?

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/epic-fail-avatar-plot-fail.jpg

[soulsyfn]

So I guess they will be using this same plot?

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/epic-fail-avatar-plot-fail.jpg

That is funny as hell, and yes Cameron will just follow the same methodology... maybe it will be more like Lilo and Stitch?

[darth los]

I guess no idea is realy new. Hilarious find there deej.

:cool:

[DjfunkmasterG]

I knew when I saw it I had to post it.

[wayzim]

Have to disagree there... I love them!

Quite agree ... Jackson came out of quirky indie films and made a trilogy which simply got better with each new film. Gollum wasn't just another CGI character, he was the high bar which is yet to be surpassed ( yes, I'm including Avatar )

Wayne Z

Gollum: Frankly, nothing can compensate for the long hours and low pay
and miserable experience we've had making this f***ing movie...And if you
think this *beep* tub of gold popcorn is going to remotely make up for
everything we've suffered, you're Sadly! F***ing! Mistaken! YOU'RE ALL BASTARDS! MTV
SUCKS! We hate you all!

[Neil]

Avatar 2, 3 and 4 it is then by the sounds of it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23546537


Fox Studios have announced there will be three sequels to Avatar, after director James Cameron found two films "would not be enough".

The three sequels will be filmed simultaneously beginning in 2014, and will be released respectively in December 2016, 2017 and 2018.

Four script writers are to help him...

[bassman]

Fingers crossed for something good, but I can't help but feel like the truly GREAT James Cameron is gone at this point.

I would much rather see some more of his documentaries than another THREE Avatar films.

[EvilNed]

I can't believe how hyped people got over Avatar. Even at the time I was flabbergasted how people could not see it for the crap it was.

But I've started to realize I've simply tired of big movie blockbusters. can't think of a single one in recent years that's been any good.

[Neil]

for the crap it was.
*sigh*

[MinionZombie]

I liked Avatar, and I still like it. Is it the most original plot in the world? Nope. Is it very broad brush storytelling? Yep - but Cameron's been using broad brush storytelling for ages ... just, perhaps, not quite this broad brush.

I didn't get the over-reaction to it from some folks who 'didn't want to live in the real world after seeing Avatar' because they were so devoted to Pandora ... yeah ... weird.

The movie was quite successful in other areas, and is brilliantly designed. Cameron's films are always technical challenges and impressive spectacles ... although as a result he does tend to skimp a bit on storytelling subtlety. Hopefully the screenwriters helping him will be able to inject some heart and some light touches to the characterisation and storytelling that make it feel a bit more smooth, rather than the very bold and straight-forward approach in the first film.

But yeah, I enjoyed Avatar. Not his best, not his worst either. It stumbles in some regards, but is successful in others.

[bassman]

But yeah, I enjoyed Avatar. Not his best, not his worst either. It stumbles in some regards, but is successful in others.

What would you consider his worst? I'm hoping you don't say True Lies......

Titanic always gets hate too, but I've always stood my ground and said it's a great flick. Most people can't get past the fact that he had to inject fictional characters into the plot, but I argue that there wouldn't be a movie without it.

[EvilNed]

I've always been surprised by people who say the design is brilliant.

Really? Is it? To me, everything seemed really bland. I'm talking mostly about creature design here, but most of the animals on pandora look just like animals on earth. There's your Space-Horses, your space-Jaguars and your space-Rhinos. Where's the brilliant design? The jungle? It's an OK jungle, but brilliant? That's higher praise than anything in this film deserves.

[Neil]

I've always been surprised by people who say the design is brilliant.

Really? Is it? To me, everything seemed really bland. I'm talking mostly about creature design here, but most of the animals on pandora look just like animals on earth. There's your Space-Horses, your space-Jaguars and your space-Rhinos. Where's the brilliant design? The jungle? It's an OK jungle, but brilliant? That's higher praise than anything in this film deserves.

You're coming across like one of these folks who didn't enjoy a successful film, so feel they somehow need to balance the scales by coming down rediculously hard on the negative side. I mean your previous point described the film as "crap," which clearly it isn't to any fair minded individual.

While I certainly would not say Avatar was a masterpiece, IMHO it was a pretty solidly made scifi story with ground breaking visuals and production. And that's not saying the visuals and production were the best ever, but they were exploring and utilising new technology, and make a pretty stab at using them fairly well. As for the story, it was simple but well told IMHO. It was no where near as deep/gritty as I would have liked, but I'm hoping the next one(s) can fix that.

As for the design being brilliant... I'd certainly say it was good. We had typical Cameron tech for the human vehicles etc, and Pandora looked rich, believable, imaginative, and at times utterly gorgeous!

[EvilNed]

Who are you to say what I can and cannot think of a film? There's no consensus I have to adhere to. There's no general law that says I have to admit to it being a "fair" film.

It's predicteable. It's dumb. It's generic. The design is bland, at best. The film is overloaded with CGI, which makes it look like a cartoon.

The highest praise anyone could ever give this film is that it's average. Because admit it, this film isn't above average in ANY aspect. Except for the cgi, but good cgi still looks fake. So there you go.

[MinionZombie]

What would you consider his worst? I'm hoping you don't say True Lies......

Titanic always gets hate too, but I've always stood my ground and said it's a great flick. Most people can't get past the fact that he had to inject fictional characters into the plot, but I argue that there wouldn't be a movie without it.

Cameron's worst is Piranha II: The Spawning ... but you can see little glimmers of him in the film ... but yeah, that's his worst (an easy statement alright, haha). I actually really enjoy True Lies - does that one get a lot of stick? I've always enjoyed it. It's not his best work, but it's also jolly good fun and does everything you want an action comedy to do. :)

Titanic - first time I saw it I was more interested in the boat sinking stuff. All the big technical action set pieces ... then I hated it, but that was more a case of me being an arrogant teenager - and all teenagers think they know everything - and looking to fit-in with 'popular opinion' on the film. However, my mood softened on it, and then a couple of years ago I got the 4-disc DVD and dived into that. Again, Titanic isn't JC's best work, but it's an immense undertaking nonetheless. Again, it's JC's 'broad brush' storytelling, and I think it's more appropriate to have fictional characters in there - you need a couple of follow throughout, and it'd be wrong to take real people and just make stuff up about a fictional romance between real people. Now, real people were represented - you can't ignore them as it's a historical movie - but with the central thrust being Kate & Leo, it was the right choice to make them fictional.

Design wise Titanic was brilliant - the sheer attention to detail, the research, the recreation of the ship, using original blue prints etc to get everything just-so (down to the correct cutlery and plates!). Does it play to the audience? Oh God yes - but it's supposed to, and really, most movies play to their audience. There's different ways of playing to your audience, but if you don't play to your audience, your audience won't give a shit about your movie ... different ways of doing it - very different ways - but they all, in their own ways, play to their audience.

Broad brush, grand, sweeping ... again, I've never been a part of 'the Titanic craze' surrounding that movie, but recently I've been able to appreciate it for what it is and enjoy it.


I've always been surprised by people who say the design is brilliant.

Really? Is it? To me, everything seemed really bland. I'm talking mostly about creature design here, but most of the animals on pandora look just like animals on earth. There's your Space-Horses, your space-Jaguars and your space-Rhinos. Where's the brilliant design? The jungle? It's an OK jungle, but brilliant? That's higher praise than anything in this film deserves.

Perhaps "brilliant" isn't quite the correct word for my context, but what I mean is that the design on the film is extremely detailed and well thought-out. Having explored the extra features on the special edition, there's a lot of info that goes into the designing of the machines, the creatures, the plant life, and the general world of Pandora. Of course they used 'earth bound nature' as an inspiration - if you don't base it on things that are somewhat familiar to we humans, then you could just design any damn nonsense, but it'd just be gibberish to us. We wouldn't understand it - so to use, for example, deep sea creatures as inspiration for certain life forms on Pandora is a good idea ... particularly as the deep sea has only been scratched at thus far, it's essentially an alien world on our own planet.

Now, I'd say that the design on Prometheus was better than Avatar (again, the massive making-of goes into great detail about the design process), but why I said the design was brilliant was because they realised an entire world. Lazier designers would just say "that's good enough", but there'd be various gaps in the world around them. Great design - like on Avatar or Prometheus - goes right down to each individual warning sticker somewhere in the background. You might never see it, but it's there in the background, adding to the fully realised nature of the world being presented on screen.

Likewise with Pandora, it had a fully realised feel - what's more, it felt like there was much more out there to explore. Just because you don't like the film itself, it doesn't mean that an extraordinary amount of time, effort, skill, and passion went into designing Pandora.

[EvilNed]

Now, that's where I disagree. Sci-fi is all about exploring unknown worlds. Pandora didn't feel that alien to me. It felt very terrestial. Very earth based. Things like Prometheus or Alien are much more alien and interesting to explore.

As for them creating "whole worlds", that's kinda common practice these days. From Star Wars, Star Trek, Riddick, John Carter, it's just not that big of a deal as far as I'm concerned. Heck, Frank Herbert did it with Dune back in the 50's.

[Neil]

Arnold Schwarzenegger reuniting with Cameron for Avatar 2? - http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-Reuniting-With-James-Cameron-Avatar-2-39451.html


Cameron is planning to take his old buddy Schwarzenegger with him on his next journey to Pandora, casting the Governator as one of the bad guy humans who return to the alien planet in their never-ending quest for that sweet, sweet unobtanium.

[bassman]

I'm still wanting True Lies 2, dangit....

[MinionZombie]

That's cool, but I'd rather see Michael Biehn return to the JC fold.

[Neil]

Stephen Lang, who played Colonel Miles Quaritch, is - even though he died - back in Avatar 2, 3 and 4 :)

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Stephen-Lang-Become-Darth-Vader-Avatar-Return-All-Three-Sequels-39968.html

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/39968/stephen_lang_39968.jpg

[MinionZombie]

Hopefully with some new writers on board they can boost the story up a little bit, freshen things up, make it less predictable/done before, which the first film did suffer from (even though I really enjoyed the movie!) ... as for Quaritch, maybe after he got killed in #1 his body was consumed by Ewa or something and he's like part of the eco system or something weird like that ... ... or the military clone him.

Bit of a wait though, 2016 through 2018 ... three of them back-to-back eh? He'd best get the balance right, otherwise you'll end up with three off-kilter films (Matrix 2 & 3, anyone? Even though there was plenty to enjoy in those films, they were inferior to the first for the same reasons in both sequels).

[Neil]

as for Quaritch, maybe after he got killed in #1 his body was consumed by Ewa or something and he's like part of the eco system or something weird like that ...Yes, like Weaver maybe!?

Or maybe he's another twin :)

[EvilNed]

Can't wait to see how they bring him back into the story.

Psyche.

[bassman]

Lang is awesome to me, so I don't really care how he's back. I'll be glad to see him again.

I'm still surprised we don't see him in more leading roles. Even though his character in Avatar was one big cliché, the guy is awesome...

[MinionZombie]

Lang is awesome to me, so I don't really care how he's back. I'll be glad to see him again.

I'm still surprised we don't see him in more leading roles. Even though his character in Avatar was one big cliché, the guy is awesome...

I hadn't realised initially, but he was the flabby newspaper reporter guy in Manhunter - quite a physical change - in Avatar he's a hell of an intimidating physical presence.

Now ... how can they improve with the sequels? Get Michael Biehn, Bill Paxton, and possibly even Lance Henriksen on board!

[bassman]

Now ... how can they improve with the sequels? Get Michael Biehn, Bill Paxton, and possibly even Lance Henriksen on board!

:lol:

Aliens reunion!

[Neil]

Filming in New Zealand for December 2016, 17 and 18 release...

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/James-Cameron-Reveals-Location-Back-Back-Avatar-Sequel-Shoots-40718.html

[Neil]

So now a fifth film is planned as well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36052818


The first sequel is due in 2018, with follow ups in 2020, 2022 and 2023.

Speaking at CinemaCon, Cameron said: "We have decided to embark on a truly massive cinematic process.

"I've been working the last couple of years with a team of four top screenwriters to design the world of Avatar going forward: The characters, the creatures, the environment, the new cultures.

"So far, the art I'm seeing, is in pure imagination, really far beyond the first film. It's going to be a true epic saga."

Personally, I'm more interested in these than Star Wars for example...

[MinionZombie]

If they can pull it off then good on them, but really, another four movies now?! Might that be a smidge presumptuous? The 3D fad has waned quite a bit since 2009 - when Avatar was the movie for everyone to go and 'try out this new form of 3D' (me and a bunch of mates did that very thing). Since then 3D viewing figures are down (look at Star Wars TFA), so the 3D gimmick isn't going to return them the profits they saw beforehand. The hoopla surrounding the film has died down quite a bit, too, so they'll really have to get people amped up for new flicks (#2 coming out nine years after #1). I'm sure they'll bring along something entertaining, and I'm glad that they seem to be working hard on the scripts - it has to be said that Avatar wasn't particularly original on that front - but it did have spectacle and a fascinating world to explore.

We'll see how it goes, I guess ... still quite a ways off ... I just hope they're not biting off more than they can chew and, should the worst happen (i.e. film 2 or 3 flops big), I'd not want the overall story to get cut off before it's finished.

[EvilNed]

Hmm. Well, if Cameron has this much faith in the project, there must be some value to it.

I'll be the first to say that I found Avatar 1 to be a dull film. Not only was the plot paper thin, it was a textbook example of just showing off state-of-the-art technology. I even found the actual designs to be lackluster. Geez, wow, look at that horselike creatures that functions just like a horse... But in space. Or how about the space-pumas? Or the space-dragon? I don't see why it got so much credit for it's designs. In addition, the human designs were boring to. There's your run-of-the-mill scifi Mech, there's your average sci-fi Verticopter...

But still, the man isn't incompetent. But had Avatar been 2 hours long instead of 3, it would have been a much better film. And maybe what we're getting here is the story for ONE film stretched out over FOUR films?

[Neil]

Hmm. Well, if Cameron has this much faith in the project, there must be some value to it.

I'll be the first to say that I found Avatar 1 to be a dull film. Not only was the plot paper thin, it was a textbook example of just showing off state-of-the-art technology. I even found the actual designs to be lackluster. Geez, wow, look at that horselike creatures that functions just like a horse... But in space. Or how about the space-pumas? Or the space-dragon? I don't see why it got so much credit for it's designs. In addition, the human designs were boring to. There's your run-of-the-mill scifi Mech, there's your average sci-fi Verticopter...

But still, the man isn't incompetent. But had Avatar been 2 hours long instead of 3, it would have been a much better film. And maybe what we're getting here is the story for ONE film stretched out over FOUR films?

I enjoyed Avatar... It's not the "bad film" many people seem to want to proclaim it to be (IMHO), but it certainly isn't a super classic :)

I think Cameron made the film look so effortless, people almost under estimate the story/work within it IMHO.

Anyhoo, here's hoping Cameron's future Avatar films improve on the first :)

[Neil]

So he's shooting all four concurrently in effect - http://famousmonsters.com/archives/22748


It’s not back-to-back. It’s really all one big production. It’s more the way you would shoot a miniseries. So we’ll be shooting across all [AVATAR scripts] simultaneously. So Monday I might be doing a scene from Movie Four, and Tuesday I’m doing a scene from Movie One. … We’re working across, essentially, eight hours of story. It’s going to be a big challenge to keep it all fixed in our minds, exactly where we are, across that story arc at any given point. It’s going to be probably the most challenging thing I’ve ever done. I’m sure the actors will be challenged by that as well. It’s like, ‘No, no, no, no, this person hasn’t died yet, so you’re still in this phase of your life.’

[MinionZombie]

Crikey!

Well, as long as everyone keeps beat sheets to track their characters and references those against their scripts, that should be a big help in keeping them on-track. Likewise for Cameron & Co.

It's gonna be a big old thing to pull off, but seeing as Avatar 2 is out in a couple of years they'd probably shoot most of that up front, wouldn't you think, before they get into 3 and 4 and 5, which would probably more likely be the ones they do more 'all over the place'. I wonder if Cameron got the idea from Peter Jackson doing LOTR and The Hobbit flicks, where they were jumping back and forth in the timeline for production reasons and cast availability.

As for a challenge, well, we all know JC loves a challenge, so he should be capable of pulling this off.

[bassman]

About a year after the “Papyrus” sketch appeared on Saturday Night Live, Cameron seems to have changed the font and logo for the sequels:

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2018/10/29/29-new-avatar.w570.h570.2x.jpg

This is the sketch starring Ryan Gosling, which is quite funny:

jVhlJNJopOQ