When a chat with a three and a half year old gets profound...

[Neil]

Over the weekend, my three and a half year old little girl (Ella) was talking to her seven year old brother (Harvey) about one of our cats who died over a year ago. Obviously her little brain was trying to come to terms with what this 'death' thing was all about.

"Will I die" she asked him.

"Yes Ella," he replied.

"When?"

Harvey (even at seven) realises (to some degree at least) such a discussion is not a nice one, so replied something along the lines, "not for a very long time Ella! "

In her head, she realised this did actually meant 'sometime', and understood that 'death' means in reality 'gone' and 'goodbye'. So she continued, "but when I die, will I be alive again afterwards?"

Harvey knows the answer to this. When the cat had died and I'd had to tell him, "she's gone!" In floods of tears his first question had been, "What? Forever?" So he told her the truth, "No, when you're dead, you're dead!"

Within a few seconds she was in floods of tears. "I don't want to be dead forever, I want to be alive again!"


In trying to comfort her it was an interesting experience. On one basic level she was simply upset at not getting the answer she wanted. In her head she wanted something, and was told she couldn't have it. I want that for Christmas... No you can't have it! I won't to be alive again after I'm dead... No you can't have it!

But what was particular profound and painfully clear, was that on some deeper level she did actually 'get it!' It was interesting seeing someone trying to grasp the reality of something that as adults we all take for granted, and something that we've grown accustomed to pushing aside and not really confronting.

Over the weekend she took a first little step towards understanding her own mortality, and to some degree understood that at some point - no doubt an unimaginable lump of time in the future in her frame of reference - that she would simply cease to be. It was a strangely profound moment watching a three and a half year being introduced, and trying to comprehend, the inevitability of their own death, and come to terms - for the first time - with their own mortality.

[MinionZombie]

Bloomin' nora...

That's heavy stuff for a 3.5 year old. :eek: Most people never even think about death until their teens or even later (usually a grand parent dying) ... I remember as a kid I never made the link between a pet dying and a person dying. I was aware of a grand parent dying when I was a kid, and was of course upset, but I never really 'got it'.

It was only when I was not far from turning 21 that I finally 'got' death when my last surviving grandparent passed on.

Although I suppose wrestling with a new concept, and 'getting' something are two different things. Even still, heavy stuff for a 3.5 year old. :stunned:

[Tricky]

Theres a chapter in the book "pet sematary" (which ive just finished reading) about this very subject, dont know if you've read it? As King says in the foreward he'd had this conversation with his daughter before he wrote the book & he included it in there!

[Neil]

Bloomin' nora...

That's heavy stuff for a 3.5 year old. :eek: Most people never even think about death until their teens or even later (usually a grand parent dying) ... I remember as a kid I never made the link between a pet dying and a person dying. I was aware of a grand parent dying when I was a kid, and was of course upset, but I never really 'got it'.

It was only when I was not far from turning 21 that I finally 'got' death when my last surviving grandparent passed on.

Although I suppose wrestling with a new concept, and 'getting' something are two different things. Even still, heavy stuff for a 3.5 year old. :stunned:

Well, it's the biggest issue most of us ever really deal with. Our own mortality, and the fact we're stting on some some railway lines and although we can't see a train coming, if we listen carefully, we can hear it...

I'm not saying she really understood "death". But she's very switched on for her age, and to some degree she cottoned on to some of it, and realised that there's the ultimate "goodbye" in store for her sometime...

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------


Theres a chapter in the book "pet sematary" (which ive just finished reading) about this very subject, dont know if you've read it? As King says in the foreward he'd had this conversation with his daughter before he wrote the book & he included it in there!

Interesting! I'll see if I can find it!

[Tricky]

Interesting! I'll see if I can find it!


Its pretty good, its written in Kings usual descriptive & thoughtful style :)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Wow man... Thats some deep shit right there. While I am not very fond of kids and don't plan to ever have any, it is little moments like that make me sort of wish I did have kids so I could have the big talk about life and death, but then again that would only be a few good moments out of lifetime of screaming and misery that I am not equipped to deal with... nor do I have time to deal with... right now I am too selfish about my own goals and aspiration and bringing a child into all that would be unfair to the kid, but once again, it is those moments that make me think twice.

[AcesandEights]

Wow, that has got to at least be a bit rough to witness as a parent, but it's interesting to note how early on your daughter is questioning these essential points.

I'd like to think I'll be able to arm my kids with some different viewpoints on the varying belief structures associated with deism and the possibility/fiction of the eternity of the soul, to pave the way for them to make an informed decision, but I think I'd only have gotten to lay the barest of tracks towards that sort of conversation when s/he/they would be 3 and a half.

Sounds like it went pretty well, you know, considering the gravity of the subject matter.

[EvilNed]

Really awesome. Good thing you don't "BS" them about any afterlife, as well. Well, maybe that's not a good thing, I don't really know, but knock em' on the head with the truth early in life and they'll turn out fine - just like me.

[bassman]

Smart kid. I'm sure it was a difficult situation and that's why I'm not looking forward to having it with my child.:dead:

[Terran]

I just remember songs like these as a kid...

First you're sick and then you're worse
And then it's time to call the hearse

They put you in
the cold, cold ground
with all your relatives
standing around.

The worms crawl in
The worms crawl out
The worms they crawl
all about

The worms crawl in
The worms crawl out
They play pinochle
on your snout!



Or....

Did you ever think as a hearse drives by
That you may be the next to die

They wrap you up in a big white sheet
And throw you in six feet deep

The worms crawl in the worms crawl out
In your ears and out your snout

Your eyes fall out, your teeth decay
A rotten end to a lovely day

[darth los]

Smart kid. I'm sure it was a difficult situation and that's why I'm not looking forward to having it with my child.:dead:


If you think that's rough, You just wait till the birds and the bees come up dude. :stunned:

:cool:

[bassman]

If you think that's rough, You just wait till the birds and the bees come up dude. :stunned:


"Go ask your mother." :lol:

[Trin]

My son asked how a 401K works last week. I started into it. Pretty soon I was like, "Can't we just talk about how girls work?"

[Neil]

Wow, that has got to at least be a bit rough to witness as a parent, but it's interesting to note how early on your daughter is questioning these essential points.

I'd like to think I'll be able to arm my kids with some different viewpoints on the varying belief structures associated with deism and the possibility/fiction of the eternity of the soul, to pave the way for them to make an informed decision, but I think I'd only have gotten to lay the barest of tracks towards that sort of conversation when s/he/they would be 3 and a half.

Sounds like it went pretty well, you know, considering the gravity of the subject matter.

She's not mentioned it since... So it will be interesting next time it comes up.

It's interesting that my son (now 7) still gets a little teary when talking about our cat who died over a year ago...

[JDFP]

Smart girl, Neil, is that taking after her mom or her dad? :)

"When you're dead, you're dead" is true enough in physical form, but our spirit will live on long after our physical forms are ashes within the ground of time. For those of who write or have children, we also live onward on earth as well as within spirit. Our children carry us onward and we never truly die as long as they carry our memory. The great thing about it is that we don't know how it all works, and that's perfectly fine. It doesn't matter, all that matters is how we lived the life we have here each and every day. The same living onward goes for those of us who write, as long as our words live on, so shall we live onward (to paraphrase great Whitman). I don't think anyone ever "truly" dies except physically.

j.p.

[EvilNed]

It's interesting that my son (now 7) still gets a little teary when talking about our cat who died over a year ago...

I get a little teary eyed whenever I think of my past cats. So it's no surprise he does as well. It's a good sign. It means he's human.

[darth los]

I get a little teary eyed whenever I think of my past cats. So it's no surprise he does as well. It's a good sign. It means he's human.

That's the main reason i won't keep animals anymore. You can't help but love them and see them as family. It just hurts too damn much when they go. :(

:cool:

[bassman]

That's the main reason i won't keep animals anymore. You can't help but love them and see them as family. It just hurts too damn much when they go. :(


Isn't that the truth. My last dog, Venkman was sick so we had to put him down. And who do you think was the one that had to be there for it? I had to hold him. I actually felt his heart slow down and then stop.:(

After that we decided not to get another pet for a long time. It just hurts too much when you lose them...

[Neil]

Isn't that the truth. My last dog, Venkman was sick so we had to put him down. And who do you think was the one that had to be there for it? I had to hold him. I actually felt his heart slow down and then stop.:(

After that we decided not to get another pet for a long time. It just hurts too much when you lose them...

Christ! When I was young I had pet rats! Awesome little fellows. Extremely clever and very friendly. In the morning they'd have the run of the house, and when my dad sat down for breakfast, they'd typically all go and sit on his lap while he ate his breakfast and went through the paper. He'd hand them bits of toast and they'd all just site there enjoying breakfast time.

The only time I saw anything like my dad crying was when we had to put one of them down!

[wayzim]

Firstly, I almost choked when someone seriously declared that most kids don't think about Death until their teens. Sounds like a person without children.
As soon as those knee biters can speak, it's amazing what's on their unfiltered little minds.

Secondly, kudos to mentioning Pet Semetary. That was my first thought when Neil brought up this topic.

"I don't want Church to be like all those dead pets! I don't want Church to ever be dead! He's my cat! He's not God's cat! Let God have His own cat! Let God have all the damn old cats He wants, and kill them all! Church is mine! "
Ellie on her fears for Church

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_King#Pet_Sematary_.281983.29

For me, I remember when I was eight, we lost one of those stupid little box turtles, and a friend of my big brother officiated at the funeral.
"Friends, we're gathered together today to bury this here dead turtle. "

I never quite took Death seriously after that until we lost our family dog to Cancer, and then later when Dad died (just over seventeen years ago. )

Wayne Z
"Death was when the monsters get you. "
Mark Petrie, Salem's Lot

[Tricky]

Isn't that the truth. My last dog, Venkman was sick so we had to put him down. And who do you think was the one that had to be there for it? I had to hold him. I actually felt his heart slow down and then stop.:(

After that we decided not to get another pet for a long time. It just hurts too much when you lose them...

I've been there too, in my mid teens we got a labrador pup called Basil & because I was at an age when I had plenty of time to spend with him we had a solid bond & I brought him up to be a cracking dog, a well trained & funny playful gundog that I took everywhere with me, I loved him to bits & he was the same when he was around me! when was around 20 years old, for no reason whatsoever, his kidneys started to fail even though he was a young healthy dog, the vets operated but couldnt do anything. We had him another couple of months but he was wasting away quickly despite all the medication so me & my mum took him back to the vets & she said they were going to have to put him down. The vet listened to him & said the dog was crying which completely broke my heart, I was in bits, then I had to hold him while she put him down. I blubbered like a baby as did my mum, and in all honesty I felt more upset over that than I have when human relatives have died in the years since then :(

[Eyebiter]

Within a few seconds she was in floods of tears. "I don't want to be dead forever, I want to be alive again!"

Perhaps she will soon be old enough to attend Sunday school at church. The concept of Heaven could be one of several possible responses to her question.

[Neil]

Within a few seconds she was in floods of tears. "I don't want to be dead forever, I want to be alive again!"

Perhaps she will soon be old enough to attend Sunday school at church. The concept of Heaven could be one of several possible responses to her question.

LOL! My mum - who is religious - suggested the same thing... :)

I'm not religious in the slightest, but I wouldn't close doors to her. If she expressed an interest in religion then good for her... But at this age I don't really want to push her in any direction. Too easy to indoctrinate them at this young age I believe...

[Terran]

One of Us. One of Us.

[Chic Freak]

There was an interesting episode of Child of Our Time where they asked the kids (I think they were 5 - 6 year olds) what death was in one-on-one interviews. I wonder if it's on youtube somewhere?