Is this blatant anti-Feminism?

[JDFP]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/23264052/detail.html

I guess this should be a warning to guys everywhere: You're damned if you act like a gentleman ("I can get my own door!" screams the feminist) and you're damned if you don't -- or at least 'noodled'.

Personally, I think acting like a gentleman is always the proper course of action, and if a gal has a problem with it she can kiss my... :moon:

j.p.

[krakenslayer]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/23264052/detail.html

I guess this should be a warning to guys everywhere: You're damned if you act like a gentleman ("I can get my own door!" screams the feminist) and you're damned if you don't -- or at least 'noodled'.

Personally, I think acting like a gentleman is always the proper course of action, and if a gal has a problem with it she can kiss my... :moon:

j.p.

Yeah, I think chivalry is the way to go, although for me that involves being courteous, polite and helpful to everyone equally, regardless of gender. Obviously, though, the way the women reacted was not courteous, polite, or helpful either...

[zombiekiller]

Yeah, I think chivalry is the way to go, although for me that involves being courteous, polite and helpful to everyone equally, regardless of gender. Obviously, though, the way the women reacted was not courteous, polite, or helpful either...

that's how i was raised. to treat women with respect. if i go out with some one and they act like a you know what, if i go out with them again i let them get their own doorand seat plus let them pay their own way. if they say anything i tell them if they wanted me to treat them better they shouldn't have said anything in the first place.:D

[SymphonicX]

I go for pure equality all the way. This news story is ridiculous - these women were expecting this random guy to show them unquestionable respect but as soon as there was a hint of that not happening, they acted in such a manner that required no respect whatsoever anyway. Way to be the big person in the situation. Mindless fucking morons.

As for the chivalry/sexism argument - I'll hold the door open for male or female, who gives a fuck? I'm not going to let it shut in someone's face. Just like I'd help a guy with a suitcase struggling up some stairs just as quickly as a woman with a pram.

Feminism is just female machoism and I really, really hate machoism.

[Danny]

I go for pure equality all the way. This news story is ridiculous - these women were expecting this random guy to show them unquestionable respect but as soon as there was a hint of that not happening, they acted in such a manner that required no respect whatsoever anyway. Way to be the big person in the situation. Mindless fucking morons.

As for the chivalry/sexism argument - I'll hold the door open for male or female, who gives a fuck? I'm not going to let it shut in someone's face. Just like I'd help a guy with a suitcase struggling up some stairs just as quickly as a woman with a pram.

Feminism is just female machoism and I really, really hate machoism.

THIS.

i'm a humanist, not a feminist. most people who fall under that moniker nowadays do not want to replace old out of date ideas with equality, just role reversal. I think ive already told the story on here how they made fridays a day at my high school where only girls could use the internet terminals in the school library because they werent using them as much as the boys were but still didnt end up using them anyway. I treat everyone the same, as should everyone. modern feminism is really old machoism, and its everywhere every show on tv jokes how men are stupider than women and they secretly pull all the shots. Its gone so far in trying to remove the old put downs like the idea of women being inferior to men, and rightly so, that its gone all the way round again and just resulted in a reversal of it.

S'like ive always said, political correctness = the new racism/sexism. You cant "identify groups that need help" without profiling and stereotyping people in the first place.

[Ghost Of War]

THIS.

i'm a humanist, not a feminist. most people who fall under that moniker nowadays do not want to replace old out of date ideas with equality, just role reversal. I think ive already told the story on here how they made fridays a day at my high school where only girls could use the internet terminals in the school library because they werent using them as much as the boys were but still didnt end up using them anyway. I treat everyone the same, as should everyone. modern feminism is really old machoism, and its everywhere every show on tv jokes how men are stupider than women and they secretly pull all the shots. Its gone so far in trying to remove the old put downs like the idea of women being inferior to men, and rightly so, that its gone all the way round again and just resulted in a reversal of it.

S'like ive always said, political correctness = the new racism/sexism. You cant "identify groups that need help" without profiling and stereotyping people in the first place.

Spot on, sir.

[SymphonicX]

In terms of it being on TV, I'd actually say its more aggressive and apparent in advertising

And I'd definitely say it's played on in every context - guy is bored shopping with his girlfriend = commentary on gender differences, guy is getting muddy with his son playing football whilst wife watches gleefully and gives us a knowing "typical man!" glance at the camera, those sort of thing - very subtle but all play on our ideas of gender roles. Even the Flash adverts with the two hairy men dressed up as women cleaning - it's all a commentary on either men being useless, or so fucking ALPHA about everything that they have no concept of their behaviour.

It does swing the other way though - with the "no your fat makes you look fat" comedy advertising playing on a male's role in the shopping scenario and how best to sabotage it by bringing male traits to the situation.

bah I'm rambling, I'm jsut theorising as to the comment about TV and media having a role in the reversal of sexism - but the more I think about it the more I feel both sexes get an equal beating...

[SRP76]

If this guy didn't hold the elevator door as it was closing on these bitches, how did they get to him to administer this attack? He should have been 10 floors away by the time they got the next elevator to chase him.

[DubiousComforts]

Um, Roxbury? Kenyana? Waltia? Mohammed?

Trust me, you're not being told the entire story. It's a simple case of assault and battery, a non-issue which the perps are desperately trying to make look like something else.

And I could understand a can of mace, but where exactly does one get a plate of pasta on a moment's notice?

[Chic Freak]

It's not anti-feminism, it's just assault with a weird excuse.


I guess this should be a warning to guys everywhere: You're damned if you act like a gentleman ("I can get my own door!" screams the feminist) and you're damned if you don't -- or at least 'noodled'.

Let's not get into unfair stereotyping of feminists here. Unfortunately the "screaming" kind get the most attention while the rest of us just reject sexism and get on with our lives.

You can't really say "damned if you do, damned if you don't" when it comes to holding a door for a lady because this assault is a completely atypical response to someone not holding a door- hence it's in the news. And the women have been arrested and charged, so it's not like society is accepting what they did, either.


Feminism is just female machoism and I really, really hate machoism.

No it isn't. Feminism at its core is simply a rejection of sexism.

Back in the day, women got the worst deal in absolutely every possible area of life, so if you wanted to reject sexism, you had to be "pro-women" in order to drag their rights up to being equal with men's. Hence it was called "feminism" because it was all about helping females. Males didn't need any help because they already had absolutely everything.

Times have changed and now we are closer to equality, but sexism is now a two-way street with men also being discriminated against in some areas.

There are also various different branches of feminist thought that either focus more on certain issues than others, or hold completely different beliefs altogether, e.g. radical feminism, which I believe is what a lot of people unfortunately are unconsciously referring to when they talk about feminism. However, radical feminists are not typical of feminists as a whole.


S'like ive always said, political correctness = the new racism/sexism. You cant "identify groups that need help" without profiling and stereotyping people in the first place.

Sorry, but that isn't true. You can easily identify groups that need help by measuring their income, numbers, life expectancy etc. This is observing and recording pertinent quantifiable data on a mass scale, which is surely the very opposite of stereotyping (i.e. unfounded, prejudiced beliefs based on emotions rather than facts).

[SymphonicX]

No it isn't. Feminism at its core is simply a rejection of sexism.

Back in the day, women got the worst deal in absolutely every possible area of life, so if you wanted to reject sexism, you had to be "pro-women" in order to drag their rights up to being equal with men's. Hence it was called "feminism" because it was all about helping females. Males didn't need any help because they already had absolutely everything.

Times have changed and now we are closer to equality, but sexism is now a two-way street with men also being discriminated against in some areas.

There are also various different branches of feminist thought that either focus more on certain issues than others, or hold completely different beliefs altogether, e.g. radical feminism, which I believe is what a lot of people unfortunately are unconsciously referring to when they talk about feminism. However, radical feminists are not typical of feminists as a whole.




So you're saying the only thing aiming itself at females was indeed the female slant on the word "anti-sexist". Basically to be anti-sexist in the 30s was indeed being a feminist - which would dictate that a man could be a feminist...

this sort of betrays the modern concept of feminism but by all means, we'll go with that - my issue is, as with everything in this world, with the modern slant on it - however being a white male approaching my 30s, it's pretty hard to talk about the similarities with other types of people where the same thing is ocurring - firstly a fight against prejudice suddenly being distorted into prejudice itself.

Kinda like the "let's kill abortionists" Christian viewpoint I guess. It also bears resemblance in race issues.

But back to modern, distorted feminism, is now a way of labelling - and this happens all over the world with every concievable issue - if there's racial tensions then eventually the first resort in a conflict between the two parties is to accuse each other of being racist, or sexist, or homophobic, whatever..

it's this default argument with pervades the story posted by the OP and in so many other situations that really fucks me off - it's a laziness tool eventually.

but saying this as a white male nearing my 30s, and hardly being part of a minority demographic, makes it hard to swallow..!

[Chic Freak]

Basically to be anti-sexist in the 30s was indeed being a feminist - which would dictate that a man could be a feminist...

this sort of betrays the modern concept of feminism but by all means, we'll go with that

No it doesn't. Of course men can be feminists. This has always been the case. The president of the Feminist Society at my uni was male, in fact.


my issue is, as with everything in this world, with the modern slant on it - however being a white male approaching my 30s, it's pretty hard to talk about the similarities with other types of people where the same thing is ocurring - firstly a fight against prejudice suddenly being distorted into prejudice itself.

Kinda like the "let's kill abortionists" Christian viewpoint I guess.

Yes, what I'm saying is the "let's kill men" approach isn't genuinely feminist, because by definition feminism is not sexist.


But back to modern, distorted feminism, is now a way of labelling... it's this default argument with pervades the story posted by the OP and in so many other situations that really fucks me off - it's a laziness tool eventually.

I don't actually know what you mean here. Labelling who or what as what? What argument, you mean "I can get away with this because I'm a feminist"? What's lazy?

[Marie]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/23264052/detail.html

Personally, I think acting like a gentleman is always the proper course of action, and if a gal has a problem with it she can kiss my... :moon:

j.p.

AFAIK they'll be no arsekissing from me.I prefer a Gentleman who opens doors and with all the other nicities. It indicates to me he'll be a considerate lover if things go that way

M_

[Danny]

Yes, what I'm saying is the "let's kill men" approach isn't genuinely feminist, because by definition feminism is not sexist.

isnt it though? i mean not in a negative way, but still its feminism, not humanism. It is still quantifying differences between both genders which for good or ill is still making judgements and presumptions based on the differences between genders and the unfortunate need that arose FOR feminism in the first place y'know?
It's like the phrase how for athiests to not believe in god they need to believe in psychics, if there is a need for a particular group to take some form of action they must also mentally separate into "us an them" themselves. Different sides of a similar segregating coin.

Though honestly i think this is a personal sort of ethos which you can make governments and workplaces change but each person will still be different. Plus lets not forget im a white male from a 1st world country born way after any sort of message on tv or in books changed to address these problems. Ive never treated someone different based on there gender or race, its frankly asinine and counter productive in the grand scheme of things but then like i said. white male, from the moment i was born ive never had any sort of ideals of racial pride or "girl power" or what have you because of who i am.
By and large, as someone born in '88, if there was a tv show or a movie or anything that dealt with racial or gender based issues the bad guy in the situation was a white male.
So for the most part all ive ever seen in my lifetime, not before it chronologically speaking in terms of the media, was white males being some blend of sexist, racist, uneducated, adulterers, murders, thieves and just all around violent assholes in the equality questioning situation.
I was raised with every media outlet saying as a white male the problems of equality were my fault and i should feel bad about it regardless of having had nothing to do with it.
So i never had this sense of pride or what have you in my 'group' which is ironic since the only group i ever considered myself a part of was humanity and taking pride and singling yourself out as part of a specific subsection for beneficial reasons seemed to be an unneeded flipside to doing the same thing for hate filled reasons.
I just grew up thinking "cant they see we're all the same?, cant we all just get along?" :lol:

Thats kind of a tangent to the original topic but ive honestly grown up to ...not dislike feminism, thats not the right word, that implies i see it as a negative- which i do not. i just failed to see the need for it, Its the same as when your told what racism is when your young i just thought "how odd, were all the same, why does it matter?" -of course sexism does still occur in the real world, same as racism.
but i will never base anyone on anything but the actions they have done and how they treat there fellow human beings. So i can understand the need for feminism as a movement, but personally? i dont think your different, or inferior because you dont have a Y chromosome, theres no 'us and them' mentality to this discussion for me.
Just people and more people. So on a personal level it seems to be something unneeded and slightly counter productive to the true equality of just knowing an individual and personally thinking "what a nice person" or "geez, what an assehole".

At least i think so, its a very difficult thing to put into words and eloquently express what i mean but do i think women need equal treatment? damn right i do, should i judge someone on there skin colour? not in a million fucking years.
I just feel that as long as we feel we have to campaign against unequal rights we will always be segregating ourselves into groups as a result anyway, thus leading future generations to still be instilled with the "us or them" ideals.
Though like i said i am part of the bland vanilla section in terms of equality so i cannot take into account the positive benefits of pride in different ideals and cultures because frankly ive never had my own to speak of. But im not a close minded brick wall. i am open minded to ideas other than my own, this is all just part of my own personal ethos and as such will never be right for anyone but me and would never expect anyone to follow my opinion just because i think it applies to how i live.

[AcesandEights]

Dunno, the modern take on feminism has always seemed to me a reversal of the old feminism (ie. nowadays it's okay for girls to be girls, women to be sex objects and men to be the untergeschlecht--lower sex; pardon my bad German).

It's not very forward thinking nowadays, but it has regulated the radical elements of those pushing for true gender equality to a degree and is somewhat more realistic/compatible with human nature than the overt hostility and high-minded impracticability of years gone by.

The big problem is that business and media interests co-op the negative aspects of the 'gender wars' for their own ends. So female empowerment then goes hand in hand with male degradation in the popular media and consciousness, while female sexual empowerment gets tweaked into social permission to be a whore (on film, the internet, for products etc.).

Now I'm not going to get into a conversation about women using their sexuality for their own material ends. I actually have little problem with that, but it tends--in the time-tested tradition of humanity--to get co-opted for others gain and to lead to things that are not very empowering for the women involved (admittedly, not always).

[SymphonicX]

isnt it though? i mean not in a negative way, but still its feminism, not humanism. It is still quantifying differences between both genders which for good or ill is still making judgements and presumptions based on the differences between genders and the unfortunate need that arose FOR feminism in the first place y'know?
It's like the phrase how for athiests to not believe in god they need to believe in psychics, if there is a need for a particular group to take some form of action they must also mentally separate into "us an them" themselves. Different sides of a similar segregating coin.

Though honestly i think this is a personal sort of ethos which you can make governments and workplaces change but each person will still be different. Plus lets not forget im a white male from a 1st world country born way after any sort of message on tv or in books changed to address these problems. Ive never treated someone different based on there gender or race, its frankly asinine and counter productive in the grand scheme of things but then like i said. white male, from the moment i was born ive never had any sort of ideals of racial pride or "girl power" or what have you because of who i am.
By and large, as someone born in '88, if there was a tv show or a movie or anything that dealt with racial or gender based issues the bad guy in the situation was a white male.
So for the most part all ive ever seen in my lifetime, not before it chronologically speaking in terms of the media, was white males being some blend of sexist, racist, uneducated, adulterers, murders, thieves and just all around violent assholes in the equality questioning situation.
I was raised with every media outlet saying as a white male the problems of equality were my fault and i should feel bad about it regardless of having had nothing to do with it.
So i never had this sense of pride or what have you in my 'group' which is ironic since the only group i ever considered myself a part of was humanity and taking pride and singling yourself out as part of a specific subsection for beneficial reasons seemed to be an unneeded flipside to doing the same thing for hate filled reasons.
I just grew up thinking "cant they see we're all the same?, cant we all just get along?" :lol:

Thats kind of a tangent to the original topic but ive honestly grown up to ...not dislike feminism, thats not the right word, that implies i see it as a negative- which i do not. i just failed to see the need for it, Its the same as when your told what racism is when your young i just thought "how odd, were all the same, why does it matter?" -of course sexism does still occur in the real world, same as racism.
but i will never base anyone on anything but the actions they have done and how they treat there fellow human beings. So i can understand the need for feminism as a movement, but personally? i dont think your different, or inferior because you dont have a Y chromosome, theres no 'us and them' mentality to this discussion for me.
Just people and more people. So on a personal level it seems to be something unneeded and slightly counter productive to the true equality of just knowing an individual and personally thinking "what a nice person" or "geez, what an assehole".

At least i think so, its a very difficult thing to put into words and eloquently express what i mean but do i think women need equal treatment? damn right i do, should i judge someone on there skin colour? not in a million fucking years.
I just feel that as long as we feel we have to campaign against unequal rights we will always be segregating ourselves into groups as a result anyway, thus leading future generations to still be instilled with the "us or them" ideals.
Though like i said i am part of the bland vanilla section in terms of equality so i cannot take into account the positive benefits of pride in different ideals and cultures because frankly ive never had my own to speak of. But im not a close minded brick wall. i am open minded to ideas other than my own, this is all just part of my own personal ethos and as such will never be right for anyone but me and would never expect anyone to follow my opinion just because i think it applies to how i live.

@chicfreak - in answer to your last question/confusion over my comments - what I meant to say I've put above^

[Legion2213]

The women told police “they had to use their fists, their bags and their feet to teach him a lesson,” according to the police report.

That is just...awesome. :lol: