What if the gun store hadn't been in the mall in "Dawn"?

[JDFP]

Here we go, another round of Romero hypothetical ('cause face it, this shit is fun)....

So, what if the gun store hadn't been at the Monroeville Mall in "DAWN"? One of the main reasons the characters decided to stick around the mall in the flick was because they realized they had the ability (thanks to the gun store) to block the entrances with the BP trucks (British Petroleum? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?) and gank all the remaining ghouls in the mall.

If the gun store hadn't been in the mall, this strategy really couldn't have happened. I'd say there were more ghouls (estimate, of course) even after locking the place up in the mall than the ammo that Roger and Peter had at hand. This would have ruled out the possibility of going around and 'blowing the piss out of 'em, all of them'. Would they still have attempted this strategy of killing all the ghouls even though they outnumbered the ammo they had available?

So, what do you think, how would the lack of a gun store in "DAWN" have changed the outcome of the film? Would they have stayed? Would they have taken the whirly-bird up and aim towards Canada, or would they just take the north star until sunrise in the chopper? What are your thoughts?

j.p.

[bd2999]

Possible. I do not think it would have been that big of a blow to them securing the exits really. They did not need to shoot to many of them during that time. When they got close Fran took some shots but really they might have been able to do without that, if Roger could get his head straight and all.

I think it definatly would have made things harder. I am trying to remember but I seem to think Peter wanted to stay around for a while before they knew there was a weapons store. They had what they needed there. So wether that was going down and getting what you need until they find out how to follow you and then get the hell out or what is hard to say. Sure, I doubt they had the ammo to go through and kill all the ghouls in the mall even with the doors locked and trucks blocking but I am sure they could have found other ways around it. Melee weapons and using firearms or fall back points.

They were fairly smart characters really so long as they kept their wits about them. Things started to fall apart when they sort of lost sight of what really mattered. So my answer would be much of the movie could still have happened the way it did, just would have had to be done much differently, or a bit differently.

[rongravy]

Still would've been doable after securing the exits, it just would've taken longer. As slow as those things were, three guys with bats or whatever else they could find in those stores would suffice to mow a pretty good path. They start bunching up too much and you retreat and start again somewhere else. Eventually you'd clear it out. And probably end up with some pretty big "guns" in the process. What a workout!

[Trin]

I think they would've found a way. The guns didn't make any difference on securing the doors with the trucks. They made a little difference on securing the glass doors from the inside (though the car was the real trick there). Once the mall was closed, it was just a matter of time to destroy them all.

Given that Peter and Roger were very comfortable running and punching the zombies as they traversed the mall the first couple forays out I'm confident they could've done "hit and run" on the whole population if necessary.

[SRP76]

They could have simply plowed through large numbers of ghouls with the car first, then walked the mall bashing in helpless skulls as the broken zombies lay on the floor afterward.

Either way, the movie wouldn't have shown "the hunt", so it wouldn't have affected the way it plays out.

[soulsyfn]

Agreed, I think the gun store was a nice to have but not necessary to stay in the mall longtime. The mall as a whole had so much to offer that it made sense to stay for as long as possible.

[Trin]

Gee, did it really? Aside from consumer electronics at rock bottom prices...

The essentials... food, water, power, medicine. I'd expect the mall to run out of water in a matter of days, or at most a couple weeks. They said that the power was maybe nuclear, which means it was not generated on site. That means when it goes dark you're screwed. Food... Hickory Farms is great for a while, but eventually you gotta have a stable source of food. I didn't see a grocery wholesaler there. No fruits or vegetabels. And as for medicine... if there was anything beyond a store first aid kit I'd be shocked. I didn't see a pharmacy, but maybe there was one.

The gunstore was a big bonus, but they squandered it. If you had that many bullets around why are there zombies in a 5 mile radius of your shelter?

[soulsyfn]

According to the map images here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48586604@N00/4267229053/in/photostream/) there are several restaurants that would have a stable supply of freezer space and cooking supplies. Water would be an issue after time but that would be problem at any location. Even at a farm since none of the survivors in Dawn were farmers I doubt they would be able to cultivate, plant, harvest fruits and veggies or milk/slaughter animals.

I say that for the situation they were in (extinction level event) their location was pretty solid and offered them a number of resources that made staying their more comfortable than any other they could think of.

Even if there was no gun store it was a prime location to survive once the mall was closed down and the zeds killed off and removed.

[darth los]

Let's get something straight first off. They were fucked wherever they decided to go. The mall only extended it.

Also, they were idiots to try and defend it against the bikers the way they did. All they needed was their little hideout area. The mall could have been retaken. Just stay up there until the bikers had their run of the place, asses the damage and act accordingly. And what did shutting the gates really do but get one of them killed and ultimately got the others expelled from the mall. It was their greed that got them in the situation they were in.

That's pretty much the whole point of the film. People putting material things in front of what's really important. They had everything a person could ever want at their fingertips yet they were still in an intense malaise.


So, to answer the o.p., I agree that in securing the entrances the ammo would not have been an issue. Clearing it out would have been a little dicier but still doable.


No matter how how many ghouls were left in the mall it still paled in comparison to the millions waiting to reach them outside (that doc frank is quite a quote machine ain't he? )

So leaving there or going to Canada was not an option. It never made sense to me wanting to be on the road as fran wanted to do. (Riley seemd obsessed with this misguided idea as well. although, if I had dead reckoning I might feel as he did as well.

side note:

I would have like to see how fran fared during childbirth. Peter seemed to know a little about old world methods (he knew how to abort so maybe he had some midwifing skills as well.)

Just from the perspective of natural childbirth under those conditions her survival was far from a lock.

:cool:

[Mr.G]

I agree with Darth...couldn't have said it better. Classic Risk blunder...they spread themselves too thin.

[fulci fan]

JD, at first I thought your signature was Bruce Campbell lol.

[Cartma7546]

Hmm I don't know Darth could they really have retaken the mall once the bikers had left? They had a hard enough time doing it with Roger alive let alone just Peter and Steve-o. Not to mention the fact that the entrance was destroyed when the bikers came through. This is saying that they try the same truck blocking the entrances plan.

[Neil]

Hmm I don't know Darth could they really have retaken the mall once the bikers had left? They had a hard enough time doing it with Roger alive let alone just Peter and Steve-o. Not to mention the fact that the entrance was destroyed when the bikers came through. This is saying that they try the same truck blocking the entrances plan.

Surely they could have tried clearing out the dead first of all. Get in a truck and draw them out into the car park and simply mow them down.

Yes, there'd be others but you'd get rid of the majority just by doing that so have far less to deal with afterwards...

[krakenslayer]

It would have been possible to secure the mall - maybe - but consider the characters' motivations for doing that: the whole idea of making the place "their own" developed over the course of that first raid from the tunnels. When Peter and Stephen saw down into the "sporting goods" store, that seemed to be a turning point in their strategy. Stephen's "I've seen it, come on", suggests that he has been mulling it over in his head and it contributed to his plan to secure the place.

To cut a long story short, I think the presence of the gun shop was a big contributor to giving the characters the confidence to even try undertaking such an upscale and dangerous task. I'm not sure Stephen would have even seriously considered the idea, had he not seen the shop.

[Neil]

To cut a long story short, I think the presence of the gun shop was a big contributor to giving the characters the confidence to even try undertaking such an upscale and dangerous task. I'm not sure Stephen would have even seriously considered the idea, had he not seen the shop.

+1 agreed!

[Wyldwraith]

Something I always wondered about,
Those were some heavy-duty trucks. Screw bullets, they could have run down literally thousands of non-dodging zombies without getting close to going through a tank of gas. If you wanted to get ridiculous about it, you could end each killing run beside a new truck, then take the almost out of gas one to the entrance to serve as a blocker, then have the new truck follow you over, pick you up, kill several thousand more ghouls etc.

Wasn't just the gun store. The Dawn survivors underutilized ALL their resources. If I was going to risk my ass at ground level with swarms of zombies, it'd be to accomplish more than sealing some entrance points. They had no other planned uses for the trucks, so its not like expending the fuel in them is a big deal.

Really they were just a bunch of unimaginative underachievers.

[Neil]

Something I always wondered about,
Those were some heavy-duty trucks. Screw bullets, they could have run down literally thousands of non-dodging zombies without getting close to going through a tank of gas. If you wanted to get ridiculous about it, you could end each killing run beside a new truck, then take the almost out of gas one to the entrance to serve as a blocker, then have the new truck follow you over, pick you up, kill several thousand more ghouls etc.

Wasn't just the gun store. The Dawn survivors underutilized ALL their resources. If I was going to risk my ass at ground level with swarms of zombies, it'd be to accomplish more than sealing some entrance points. They had no other planned uses for the trucks, so its not like expending the fuel in them is a big deal.

Really they were just a bunch of unimaginative underachievers.

Let's be frank. The truck thing was down to budget/script.

It would have been expensive effects wise and there's only so many times we can see zombie Savini bouncing off a trampaline. And it also would have been pretty boring watching a truck mowing the zombies run after run after run :)

[Thorn]

If the gun store was not there I think things would have played out much the same. Our heroes would have died just less well armed.

Or they would not have had the courage to try and defend the mall.

One or the other it is impossible for me to say.

Either way the major failing here was in not leaving the mall when you are faced wit ha foe that is larger in number, better equipped, and has more experience (You could argue Peter and Roger were trained that is 2 of 4 and certainly not enough to overcome an entire biker gang surviving on the road as long as they did)

I am sorry but you pick up and move on. There are hundreds of malls, if a predator moves into your back yard you don't live near it if you can help it. Why fight with the bikers at all? Move on to greener pastures or at least ones with less lions waiting to nibble your bum.

[krakenslayer]

I think they might have stuck with the original plan and headed for the Canadian Rockies (I assume that was the plan, anyway).