Thoughts on "Avatar" (someone turn it off!).

[JDFP]

So, I finally had a chance to watch "Avatar" yesterday, and overall, I gotta say, I don't get what all the hype is about. Yes, the film is visually stunning. This is the first thing that sticks out about it and I'd definitely give the film 5/5 stars for the pure visual aspects of it. It's a beautiful film, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But, I don't watch films for the pure "wow, that looks good!" aspect of it. I'm more interested in the story, the characters, and if it breaks away from tired and true cliches to tell me something interesting. It's all about the story and the characters. If you don't have that, then it doesn't matter how 'pretty' your movie is. I thought "Avatar" was pretty weak in all these aspects of story and characters.

A few of the issues I have...

Yet again we are presented with a film in which the military are the "EVIL!" bad guys who are wanting to destroy a culture and a people. Sigh, really? The leader of the military group, played by Stephen Lang, is just about every single military cliche you can think of rolled up into one character. He's completely one-dimensional and completely unrealistic. His sole purpose is in wanting to kick ass and blow shit up. Right, because Heaven forbid we had an officer who is educated, intelligent, or cultured in any way whatsoever. Let's forget that a great number of military officers are some highly intelligent and educated and quite cultured men and women. No, that would be breaking the mold of stereotypes of the military only existing to "blow shit up!" and not think...

The Na'vi are interesting, but I don't feel like enough was properly developed regarding their culture, faith, day-to-day living. It was all about the "Wow, look how cool they look as giant Smurfs!" and them running around screaming and crying and being more human than the "EVIL!" humans attempting to apparently destroy their culture with no consideration for them.

Yet again, the corporation is shown to be the bad guys. Because we all know attempting to better ourselves through Capitalism is nothing but "EVIL!" that breaks the back and the culture of the poor throughout not only our world but now on Pandora (sigh). Substitute the Na'vi for any Third World country in the world and the "Corporation" for any American corporation and you have the same story as presented in a completely one-sided approach. What is left out (because, well, why would you want to show that?) is how most people ultimately benefit from the development of society. But this message would be an attack on the attack of industrialized development that the film is attempting to attack (and that's a lot of attacking).

I think the Na'vi are really a socialist's wet dream. Primitive agrarian collectivists with pagan ideology attacking the industrialized "EVIL!" Corporation that is attempting to benefit from their 'plight' (the changing nature of their primitive collectivist and pagan ideology) through military enforcement. Yes, it's all very familiar...

Another similar film to this that (also unfortunately) portrays most humans as being purely bad and the military as being nothing but crude idiots is a film by the name of "The Battle for Terra". The difference is, I think "Terra" did a better job of developing characters and telling the story.

Anyway, I was quite disappointed with this flick, overall. The characters were one-dimensional for the most part and the story was an attack on sound American ideology. Good looking visuals cannot compensate for a lack of story and characters and a completely one-dimensional approach that gave no consideration to opposing views.

2.5/5

j.p.

[SRP76]

The whole "horrible bad guys coming to take away resources and destroy the culture of perfect people" angle has only been done in about a million other movies and television episodes. It stopped impressing me at least 300,000 ago.

[rightwing401]

I agree with you completely. The special effects of Avatar were completely stunning. But other than that, the movie really had nothing else to offer. About the only thing that I actually enjoyed with the overall plot was the first time the ex marine walked again as one of the aliens. After that, everything else became rediclously cliched.

What I don't get was why so much time was devoted to the inner workings of the Na'vi, but almost nothing was mentioned on why the 'corporation' was there and what the purpose was of the mineral they were mining. Was it just shiny metal being sold like diamonds or did it have properties that were being incorporated to enhancing or even saving billions of lives back on Earth? We really are never told. Another problem I have with the plot is that the ex marine rallies all the natives up by saying that the corporation is plundering their land from what rightfully belongs to them. Well, where did the movie ever show the natives using the mineral that the corporation is mining? How can you be stealing something that's not being used, or likely ever to be used?

Another fact that agrivated me was that the Na'vi, although completely primitive in almost ever aspect, are all completely harmonious with each other and inter tribal war is just as alien to them as their planet is to humans. That's akin to the liberal fantasy belief that places like Africa and North America were complete paradises before the evil Eurpoeans showed up. The stab that Cameron made with the ex marine stating that the only thing humans have to offer the Na'vi is cheep booze and cigarettes was totally blatant in the message that he was trying to whack the audiences over the head with.

This movie is definately one of the most overrated flicks of all time.

[kidgloves]

"unobtainium" :lol: was enough to make me roll my eyes at this film. Does look beautiful though

[Tricky]

"unobtainium" :lol: was enough to make me roll my eyes at this film. Does look beautiful though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

Its actually a real engineering term!

[Danny]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

Its actually a real engineering term!

i prefer unexplainium.

[bassman]

I agree for the most part. This is why I havent purchased the film. Without the theater aesthetic the film loses 99% of it's charm. They spent too much time on the technology and let everything else fall short.

That being said, it's also not as bad as some people make it out to be. This is no Uwe Boll disaster. It's not bad for being any other film, but it's pretty bad when you consider it's from James Cameron....

[fulci fan]

I have seen some clips played on television and at stores. I know everyone will disagree, but from what I have seen, the film's visual effects do not impress me. Almost everything in the film is literally not real. What is the point? Would you put real actors in Toy Story? Imagine if the effects in this film were done practically.

Am I the only person who thinks this movie looks like a video game? :|

[Chic Freak]

Unoriginal but still a fun, slightly cheesy kids' movie, imo. I'd watch it again at some point, probably the next time I'm ill and lying on the couch feeling sorry for myself all day. I thought it was cosy like a Disney film (Pocahontas in particular springs to mind!).

[MinionZombie]

Unoriginal but still a fun, slightly cheesy kids' movie, imo. I'd watch it again at some point, probably the next time I'm ill and lying on the couch feeling sorry for myself all day. I thought it was cosy like a Disney film (Pocahontas in particular springs to mind!).
I look forward to seeing the extended cut of the movie on DVD. I felt like the sort of movie, in the cinema, that would really benefit from more time to flesh out the characters.

[Danny]

I felt like the sort of movie, in the cinema, that would really benefit from more time to flesh out the characters.

Traditionally thats what the plot is for.

[MinionZombie]

Traditionally thats what the plot is for.
:rolleyes:

Had your fill of smart arse this morning? :p

What I meant - clearly - was that even still, some movies would benefit from a longer running time to fully flesh things out. With an acre of characters to cover, you sometimes can't do it all in the theatrical running time, and Avatar feels like such a movie.

Indeed, the extended version is supposed to be 40 minutes longer, so I remember reading.

[Danny]

:rolleyes:

Had your fill of smart arse this morning? :p

What I meant - clearly - was that even still, some movies would benefit from a longer running time to fully flesh things out. With an acre of characters to cover, you sometimes can't do it all in the theatrical running time, and Avatar feels like such a movie.

Indeed, the extended version is supposed to be 40 minutes longer, so I remember reading.

Avatar is almost 3 hours long, if you cannot flesh out characters in that time you cannot write. Back in the days of movies almost as short as 60 minutes in length we had solid character development. There is none in this that does not have to occur for the disney-esque storyline to continue.

James Cameron had almost 3 hours to try and develop characters. He didnt even have to work on the plot instead he focussed on the technology. Thats not how you make a movie, thats how you make a ride for universal studios.

Avatar is good looking, its just not a good looking film it was just a display of effects to sell a technology with a null story with no development or originality there for the sole reason to keep it going to show more outstanding technology.

Cameron makes bitchin' effects. He cannot write characters for shit. If you think 162 minutes runtime is NOT enough time to flesh out the characters you need to watch the film again and ask yourself why you like it.

[MinionZombie]

The script is not Cameron's best work, far from it, and I've not said otherwise.

My point still stands. It's amazing how some extra time can improve characterisation and the over-all film. Indeed the Director's Cut of Watchmen (which, yes, was a better film than Avatar in general from the get-go) really benefits from the extra 25 minutes.

Aliens, 17 minutes longer, is a better film than the theatrical cut too.

[Neil]

Having watched it three times now (twice at the cinema and once at home) it's grown on me each time...

Yes the story is simple, but I have to say, the film is put togethor so well (eg: editing etc) it makes it look all too easy!

But for me, the total jump in reality made the film for me. There's so much attention to detail it's an amazing feat! A number of times (watching at home) I heard my other half say "wow!" under her breath, at the shear scope and beauty of what was on the screen...

No, not Cameron's best script, but still a might enjoyable flick IMHO, and an awesome technical achievement!

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------


James Cameron had almost 3 hours to try and develop characters. He didnt even have to work on the plot instead he focussed on the technology. Thats not how you make a movie, thats how you make a ride for universal studios.

That's harsh, and a little unfair TBH. What Cameron did do is invest a lot of time in Pandora and it's life. Didn't seem like a waste of time to me...

[Danny]

That's harsh, and a little unfair TBH. What Cameron did do is invest a lot of time in Pandora and it's life. Didn't seem like a waste of time to me...

Its not meant to be harsh its meant to be my honest opinion. What cameron did well was the little things, like the skin on the naavi looking so real, but the world was underwhelming and unoriginal and just didnt wow me.

For comparison in terms of visuals heres an example of something recent that did wow me from final fantasy 13:

CGfSKu-qXpo

Course thats because ive seen the floaty rocks and weird jungle stuff in games and films for at least 25 years previous to avatar, again just rehashing things ive seen before. Everything about avatar can be summed up for me in one sentence "It looks nice but nothing about it i havent already seen before".

[MinionZombie]

I look forward to seeing Avatar again - but I'm holding out for an extras-laden DVD release in an extended cut to do so. For me at least, the main point with Avatar is that it transports you to another world - Pandora - (technically a moon), and it successfully does that in spades.

[Neil]

Its not meant to be harsh its meant to be my honest opinion. What cameron did well was the little things, like the skin on the naavi looking so real, but the world was underwhelming and unoriginal and just didnt wow me.

For comparison in terms of visuals heres an example of something recent that did wow me from final fantasy 13:

CGfSKu-qXpo

Course thats because ive seen the floaty rocks and weird jungle stuff in games and films for at least 25 years previous to avatar, again just rehashing things ive seen before. Everything about avatar can be summed up for me in one sentence "It looks nice but nothing about it i havent already seen before".
"The world was underwhelming and unoriginal" - Fair enough... Maybe we have different "whelming" and "original" brackets :) Even little things like the insects that span to get away impressed me :) And that was one of my other half's "wow" moments too... There seemed just a lot of attention to detail that I for one appreciated.

As for that clip of Final Fantasy 13... Ummm to me that just comes across as nothing but "Fantasy" - I can't buy into it so easily. Where as Cameron's Pandora felt a lot more thought through and at least somewhat believable - if you're willing to give it some lea-way.

...anyway... If this proves anything... It's 'each to their own' :)

ps: In that clip, the graphics are impressive. Just the people themselves don't look real...

[Danny]

As for that clip of Final Fantasy 13... Ummm to me that just comes across as nothing but "Fantasy" - I can't buy into it so easily. Where as Cameron's Pandora felt a lot more thought through and at least somewhat believable - if you're willing to give it some lea-way.

it was the opposite for me, in the ff13 clip we see a fantasy world but theres nothing completely crazy - considering its a world involving magic, whereas things like the "fwump!" umbrella plants in avatar where cartoons and seemed out of place in a film attempting to be serious.