I hate Organized Profession Sports

[Terran]

This is why I hate organized sports:
I love playing many of them (especially hockey) because they are just simply fun to participate in.
Like a video game only in real life :shifty:. :lol:
Often it is also enjoyable, and useful, for one to watch one's teammates and/or potential rival's play the game. This gives one insight on opponent's skills/weaknesses and provides opportunity to witness novel skills and strategies worth adopting.
So in this sense the only organized sports I would enjoy watching are one's that I am actively involved in that host my teammates and rivals.


I loathe Professional Organized Sports. There is next to nothing I find redeeming about them.
There's no "Team Loyalty" or "Regional Cohesion or Strife" with practically all sports:
1)The teams roster and coaches often change year to year. Often these players are from all over the world(depending on sports popularity).
A) Few, if any, of the players are from their given team or franchise’s region.
B) Completely normal, as opposed to rare, to see athletes compete against former teammates and coaches.
C) Commonly in a given athlete’s career they will change teams and allegiances based upon the whims of management and trades.
2)The Coaches, The Players, are drafted in much the same way a corporation seeks consultants or employees for task specific endeavors.
3)A given team franchise is corporate owned. So the motivation behind any given decision about the team is subject to potential monetary gains even if that means moving the team to another region, changing the teams name, or some other drastic re-management.

Given the obvious corporate manufacturing and the resulting “orchestrated” spectacle of a given Professional Sport I am often perplexed at “Team Worship”.
“I love the Washington Redskins” vs. “I love the Dallas Cowboys”
“I love the Detroit Redwings” vs. “ I love the New York Rangers”
“I love the Washington Wizards” vs.. “I love Orlando Magic”
“I love the Baltimore Orioles” vs. “I love the Washington Nationals”

People spend huge amounts of money on tickets and merchandise supporting “their team“. They paint themselves up, sit in freezing weather, cheer and shout, for “their team“. Sometimes this fervor works up to violence directed at rival fans for denying/opposing “their team‘s” dominance, or even rioting in the streets after an important loss or victory, demonstrating support for “their team“.

I am dumbfounded by this. I just don’t understand what these people are so captivated by.

Is it something about the team’s founding?
Would these same people who are current fans of a given team equally love “their team” if they changed regions?
It doesn’t seem that the Montreal Expos kept their Montreal fans when the team moved to Washington DC.
Perhaps its The name or the franchise characteristics then. Since in Montreal’s case they changed their name to The Nationals.
Would the Jacksonville Redskins keep their passionate Washington fans by keeping the franchise image intact? Keeping the same color scheme, same mascot, even keeping the Hogettes (a group of twelve male Washington Redskins fans who wear women's dresses, garden party hats, and pig snouts).

I am pretty sure the overwhelming answer to this question would be:
“Hell No ‘Washington Fans’ would not continue to support the Redskin franchise if they moved to Jacksonville”. This seems supported by the seemingly unwavering support of fans despite team name changes. Washington Bullets transitioned uneventfully to the Washington Wizards.

The next obvious conclusion one could make is that it is the regional characteristics.
“We Love OUR Home Team”
It appears though, that the defining characteristic of a fan’s “Home Team” is the proximity that this team is in relation to themselves at a given point in time. Many people seem to support the team franchise from the area in which they grew up.
Even this seems subject to irrational change.
For many many years the Baltimore Orioles was the “Home Team” for Washington DC and Virginia. Then the Montreal Expos came available to Oklahoma City; Washington, D.C.; San Juan, Puerto Rico; Monterrey, Mexico; Portland, Oregon; Northern Virginia; Norfolk, Virginia; New Jersey; and Charlotte, North Carolina. and Las Vegas, Nevada. Washington DC eventually got the team and overnight the “Home Team” for Washington D.C. fans and Virginia changed to the Washington Nationals. (My younger brother: he was a crazy Orioles fan for years; expensive memorabilia, season tickets, then overnight he canceled he began replacing all these things for Nationals parallels).

This sort of behavior is curious to me because many sports fans keep “their team” if the fan personally moves to another region (example: a Green Bay Packers Fan currently living in DC), but if a stationary fan has “their team” removed to another region or a new team appears in closer proximity their team allegiances change without a terrible fuss.

Would the Green Bay Packers Fan living in DC still be a fan of that franchise if a new team arose closer to where that fan once lived? Or like mentioned earlier in this post if the franchise moved to another region.




The only legitimate facet of following Professional Sports that I can really wrap my brain around and understand is “Hero Worship”. *Thinks of The Original RollerBall*
There seem to be fewer people though who specifically follow a given athelete and more often than not this “Hero Worship” seems to derive from this athletes participation with a fan’s chosen “Team Worship”.



Given the arbitrary rules of Organized Sports that I mention here (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=16660) and Corporate Control of Professional Teams the only Sport I can really tolerate watching is Mixed Martial Arts.
With a sport like this the only rules are for the safety of the athletes and is ripe for “Hero Worship”


Can someone enlighten me to why these various Organized Professional Sports are entertaining.

[Danny]

ive always said why watch a sport when you can play it.

Me and my mates still spend some time on weekends playing basketball, cricket, baseball or football because, well, its fun, why else? and whilst im good at basketball and not bad with a baseball bat i cant play football or shit, but we still do because its fun. Sitting on your ass watching people play a sport whilst you graze on snacks and gassy drinks has never had an appeal for me, let alone cheesehead level hero worship. I can understand "wow, that guy just batted a fucking amazing game" its the sitting and doing nothing yourself that seems antithetical to sporting events. But that said im the kinda guy who doesnt like sitting and doing nothing so it just seems like a huge waste fo time for me.

[MikePizzoff]

Go to a Phillies game and you may have a change of heart. The fans here are fun and energetic. If you watch one of the home games on TV, you can hear how loud it is; it's not just everyone sitting and staring. Also, we aren't the types of fans that switch who we like at the drop of a dime - although, this is falsely written about us time and time again, what we really do is give our players a [lovingly] hard time if they're doing bad, in order to help boost them back up to par. Players have been quoted saying that the fans being harsh on them really does help them realize they need to whip back into shape.

A lot of the fans you are talking about are the opposite of what Philly is. I'm not totally sure where you're from, but I know for a fact some cities just have terrible fan bases - I mean god awful. This can leave one with a stigma on the subject.

I'm not upset that you feel this way, though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Mike70]

there is something very cerebral and very beautiful about baseball. every pitch is unique and you never know when something amazing will happen. that's why i love it at all levels - from little leauge on up.

other than baseball, the only other sport that i can sit through an entire game of is soccer. through the miracle of cable tv, all 4 english professional leagues are now covered over here.

as far as teams go, i've always been more interested in individual players, usually regardless of where they play.

anelka could play for fricking hull city for all i care.

[Tricky]

I've never got into watching any sports really, my dad was never a football fan or anything so I never got into it as a kid either. I did play for a couple of teams at junior school (rounders & football) but was never any good at it due to lack of interest. As I got older I got into keeping myself fit but still never took up or got interested in any sport till i discovered paintball a few years ago, I play that fairly regularly now but its a bit different to the normal sports!

Loads of other lads I know think there must be something wrong with me because I have no interest in football, the vast majority of lads i've ever met are fanatical about it & I get mocked for not being the same, but I just dont "get it" :confused:

[Terran]

I'm not totally sure where you're from, but I know for a fact some cities just have terrible fan bases - I mean god awful. This can leave one with a stigma on the subject.

I'm not upset that you feel this way, though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I am 15 minutes or so outside of Washington DC in Virginia. So if I were to claim "my teams" by region They'd be the Redskins, The Wizards, The Nationals, and the Capitals. So in terms of popularly or fan base I know that the Redskins are up at the top at least...not so sure about how the others matchup.

Regardless....

I fear that I either poorly portrayed my thoughts, or you misinterpreted my original post because the relative enthusiasm of fans for a particular team really has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
If anything I was trying to demonstrate how misplaced and irrational this enthusiasm was. I think I subconsciously attempted to allude how this enthusiasm was a symptom of some unsubscribed phenomenon.
In an attempt to clarify my thoughts on this Ill cut n paste some of my original post with connecting statements in response to your statements.


Go to a Phillies game and you may have a change of heart. The fans here are fun and energetic. If you watch one of the home games on TV, you can hear how loud it is; it's not just everyone sitting and staring.
As a passing comment, any time you get a massive group of people who, collectively, are fixated on, singular, human events/interaction there will be a tendency for those within this collection to be energetic,loud, otherwise enjoying themselves. See: Concerts, Plays, Fairs, Theme parks, Parades, even a political rally.
I felt in my initial post that I acknowledged fan enthusiasm for "their team" I was more questioning why they were so enthusiastic given that:

There's no "Team Loyalty" or "Regional Cohesion or Strife" with practically all sports:
1)The teams roster and coaches often change year to year. Often these players are from all over the world(depending on sports popularity).
A) Few, if any, of the players are from their given team or franchise’s region.
B) Completely normal, as opposed to rare, to see athletes compete against former teammates and coaches.
C) Commonly in a given athlete’s career they will change teams and allegiances based upon the whims of management and trades.
2)The Coaches, The Players, are drafted in much the same way a corporation seeks consultants or employees for task specific endeavors.
3)A given team franchise is corporate owned. So the motivation behind any given decision about the team is subject to potential monetary gains even if that means moving the team to another region, changing the teams name, or some other drastic re-management.
And by "Team Loyalty" I meant that in terms of the athletes, coaches, managers, and owners....Not the Fans.

I guess it too many words what I was really asking was.

What exactly makes a given team "Our/My Team"?

Also, we aren't the types of fans that switch who we like at the drop of a dime
A lot of the fans you are talking about are the opposite of what Philly is.
So the questions I would ask you (Or any fan for that matter):
What makes the Phillies "your team"?
Is it because of who actually owns the team?
Phillies Owners:
David Montgomery
Giles Limited Partnership (Bill Giles)
Claire S. Betz
Tri-Play Associates,
Double Play Inc.

!Corporate Pride! :clown:
Well that cant be it.

Is it because of who plays/coaches/manages on the team?
In any given year how many of the players are from Philadelphia or even Pennsylvania for that matter?
That cant be it because any of these players or coaches could have easily been drafted or hired to another team.


Is it because of their name?
If a team was called the Philadelphia Phillies but for some inexplicable reason was always located in Ft Myers Florida would people from Pennsylvania still be fans if for some inexplicable reason they had always had a team called the Oakland Athletics playing out of Citizens Bank Park?
(I know illogical just using this example to demonstrate that the fans are more attracted to the proximity of the teams "home")

These people are fans because of Location...

So:
despite the players/coaches from being all over the world...
despite the owners being corporate region-less entities...
The Phillies are still Pennsylvanian's team only because a multi-national corporation, in league with a coalition of smaller corporations, decided to incorporate the romantic history of a team into their corporate brand.

"Corporate Brands kick-ass!"

Despite the logistics of it occurring...imagine if these corporate entities just up and moved the Phillies.... Ft Myers Phillies.... Would they still have Pennsylvania fans? I doubt it....

This has happened before....

Before the Oakland A's were a California team they were the Philadelphia Athletics....3 of 4 World Series from 1910 to 1914 under Philadelphia

Now? Is this teams fans predominantly from California or from Pennsylvania? Or from Kanas?


So the question remains the same.
Why do people consider any professional team "their team" when the only characteristic valid for this designation is the location of the teams "Home Field" which only 50% of their games are played anyhow.

[mista_mo]

I know that this may not contribute so much to the discussion in the way that you may wish, but I think that it is slightly relevant.

As you may well know, the Stanley Cup playoffs are currently going on. Needless to say, the only Canadian team in the running right now is the Montreal Canadians. Every night, after they win a game, the entire city lights up, and people run out, honk their horns, yell, whatever. Keep in mind that I live no where near Montreal, i indeed, I am a good 7 hours or so away from the city, and yet, people lose their shit over a positive outcome in their favour.

I think that a lot of the connection that someone has to a team stems from either nationalism, or the fact that they grew up watching that team play. My boss at work is an avid Blackhawks fan, and needless to say, he is quite excited by their progress in the playoffs thus far. I asked him one night why he was so excited about the outcome of the finals. I mean, it is just a game right? He told me that he loves the hawks, as he grew up listening to their games on the radio, and watching their games. He just felt a connection to the team that grew as he continued to dig deeper into their history.

That may not be the answer that you were looking for, but I feel that is a perfectly normal response to the question at hand.

They simply grew up watching that team play, and have formed a connection with them, or it stems from national pride of sorts. Everyone wants to see a home grown team do well, and that is especially important here, in Canada, seeing as how we generally consider it our national pastime. With the relative lack of Canadian NHL teams, people will generally support whatever Canadian team is left in the playoffs.

That being said, I support the team that has the most bitchin' logo, and to me, that would either be San Jose, or Edmonton.

Go Sharks etc....

[Terran]

REPLYING TO THE CONTENTS OF HIS POST. ACTUAL POST OMITTED FOR SPACE

Fair enough.

I think that in this thread I acknowledged what you termed the "perfectly normal response" afterwords offering hypothetical situations that would 'stress' this relationship of fan/team in some way.

"Its like science, man. You like stress things out-and-stuff, then it falls apart like, *KaPow*!. And then I would like pick up the pieces and look at em, for like data, or something. I would totally make a kickass pie chart after that...Hmm Im hungry" :clown:


What I question, and to some extent "attack" is how rational this impulse of fandom is.
People get very emotional over "their" team as anyone can attest to.
*Thinks of all the extreme examples some of which already mentioned in passing*


You mentioned the, likely common, scenario of a person growing up watching a team play, resulting in them being a lifelong fan.

I offered the scenario in this thread of something occurring to a given franchise that "changes" the team.
First Situation
Subject A: An avid Blackhawks fan
Element B: Blackhawks franchise
Occurrence 1: Blackhawks franchise changes name to the Lawrence Iroquoians
Subject A: After grumbling over name change is an avid Lawrence Iroquoian fan since its still the same "team"/franchise.
(Many instances of professional sport teams changing names keeping the same fanbase)


Second Situation same intial set up as before.
Occurrence 2: Blackhawks franchise changes region to, lets say for lack of a better place, Wyoming. Now called the Wyoming Fever.
Subject A: Is likely royally pissed because he lost his team despite it being the same "team"/franchise.


I just do not really understand mindset and the passion that appears to stem from claiming a team as one's own.
Other than a team's home field being located in a given location there is nothing other than a brand that associates a team with any particular region.
Apparently a brand and a location is enough for people to get all bent out of shape over.


You mention nationalism as a possible explanation.
Ill consider this equivalent to regionalism in terms of other sports.

I looked it up, and 49.8% of the entire current NHL are Canadian citizens (52.0% in 2007-2008).
So from a national standpoint the whole league is "My/our team", if your Canadian.

With the relative lack of Canadian NHL teams, people will generally support whatever Canadian team is left in the playoffs.
No matter which team takes the playoffs the Canadians won it. :D





The more I talk about it the more I think of a metaphor i just invented.

Pepsi decides to release a "new" beverage.
Pepsi then sets up or acquires satellite distrubtion centers in select cities across the country to distribute the beverage.
Each of these satellite distrubtion centers name the beverage they receive according to what they feel will resonate with regional community.
And despite the ingredients being the same in this beverage the national community become fans of a given beverage name.
They cheer for the success of their favorite name or region from which this name came from. Endlessly
:annoyed:

[Wyldwraith]

I'm with the OP,
MMA, Fixed-Style MA, Individual shooting competitions (pretty much just an Olympic thing on this one), and Pro Paintball matches are the extent of my viewing/following of "sports".

In the case of the shooting-related competitions, my fascination is with the individual's capacity for seemingly inhuman feats of accuracy and focus. Watching one of the few remaining old-style shooting exhibitionists is also fascinating to me.

As for Paintball, as a franchise it can suffer from all the faults the OP cites concerning other Pro sports and their fans. However, I don't really view paintball from a team-based fandom. It's more like a wargame to me. The tactics and strategy interest me.

Martial arts are a different matter. There you have cause for the admiration of the martial artist(s) as individual(s). MMA, particularly the UFC format is beginning to grow stale, however. The dominant participants fall almost exclusively into 3 categories now.

You have the Ground & Pounders, the Strikers (basically a guy biding his time waiting to unload one brutal overhand punch for a knockout), and the Submitter.

Highly successful participants who are equally adept at all three strategies (and thus dynamic/interesting to keep watching), are fewer and further between. Many UFC matches are such lookalike muddles that they're difficult to remain interested in. Watching a couple guys spend 80% of the entire 3 rounds moving from Guard, to half-Guard, and out again before repeating the cycle actually ends up looking pretty homoerotic, which I can DEFINITELY do without.

For all the "regular" sports though, the OP pretty much said it all. Very insightful, and I agree completely.

[MikePizzoff]

The reason people call teams "their teams" and follow them, loyally? Simply put: entertainment. The same reason some people are batshit over LOST. Or the Dead Heads that follow around The Grateful Dead. Or those who play video games.

Sports give fans something to look forward to; a good way to pass time.

[Publius]

Go to a Phillies game and you may have a change of heart.

So, Mike. . . . Pat's or Geno's? Or someplace else? I expect to be passing through Philadelphia next month and want to make sure I hit the right place.

[MikePizzoff]

So, Mike. . . . Pat's or Geno's? Or someplace else? I expect to be passing through Philadelphia next month and want to make sure I hit the right place.

To be honest, neither Pats nor Genos are all that good. They're just tourist traps. Once you see them in person you'll understand why (picture the neon lights of the Las Vegas strip).

A way better spot would be Jim's Steaks, on the corner of 4th & South. However, if you plan on going on a weekend, during the afternoon, be prepared to wait in a VERY long line (it wraps around the queue inside the store, out the door, around the corner, and down the block quite frequently).

But, to be honest: the best Philly cheese steaks are, in fact, made in South Jersey. I technically live in New Jersey (I'm separated from Center City by the river) and the place that has won "Best Philly Cheese Steak" by the major newspaper for the past 5 years, is literally 100 feet from my house.

[Trin]

There are lots of reasons to be a fan of a particular franchise that don't involve ignorance or cults.


Would the Green Bay Packers Fan living in DC still be a fan of that franchise if a new team arose closer to where that fan once lived? Or like mentioned earlier in this post if the franchise moved to another region.
Green Bay Packers is an interesting example so I'm glad you brought it up. GBP are community owned and non-profit. There is a reason why the fanbase up there is so rabid - they have little or no fear that their beloved franchise will ever move. If the franchise is ever sold any profits go to the Green Bay Packers Foundation - a charity. It's also very typical for a GBP fan to remain a fan long after they've left the region.

Look at the KC Chiefs as another example. Created and owned by Lamar Hunt since their inception they were the founding member of the AFL. A lot of the fanbase around KC stems from pride over the history of the franchise and its long-time owner.

In a larger sense sports give a region a rallying point that allows people to overcome petty regional differences. It may not be rational but it's valuable.

[Terran]

In a larger sense sports give a region a rallying point that allows people to overcome petty regional differences. It may not be rational but it's valuable.

Ahhh....Just like in Star Trek Deep Space Nine "The Story Teller" Season 1 episode 14
Where O'Brien has to take on the role of a Sirah....
(Just happened to watch this last night had to look up the Season/Episode though).


A Sirah's role can be summarized as follows: the village in question used to be bitterly divided, so the first Sirah used a piece of an orb to channel all the villagers' fears into a monster called the Dal'Rok, which would appear over a five-day period every Bajoran year and be repeatedly driven out by the collective goodwill and unity of the villagers, catalyzed by stories told by the Sirah, which essentially stated that although the Dal'Rok is powerful, the village is united and thus the Dal'Rok will be defeated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Storyteller_%28Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine%29


Yea...so not rational...but socially valuable...
*grumbles*
Damn humans

[Mike70]

Millwall vs Swindon at Wembley on May 29th. Get up there, you Lions! :cool:

i've seen millwall play a couple of times on tv lately and i'll be checking this out for sure.

and on another note: why would anyone want to watch pro sports? i mean it's nothing more than incredibly skilled athletes competing at the highest levels. why would anyone be interested in that?:rolleyes:

[3pidemiC]

I think it also has a lot to do with hometown pride. Everyone likes to root for the team that represents their city or state. It makes you feel good to know that your team is doing well at the national level.

Also, I think an exception to the blanket rule about owners applies somewhat to Mike Illitch, the owner of the Detroit Red Wings and Tigers. He is a Detroit native who has done a lot for not only those great franchises but the city as well. He also owns Little Ceasars so...come'on.

Go Wings!

[Trin]

Ahhh....Just like in Star Trek Deep Space Nine "The Story Teller" Season 1 episode 14
Where O'Brien has to take on the role of a Sirah....

Yea...so not rational...but socially valuable...
*grumbles*
Damn humans
Yes, that is an excellent example of the principle. And leave it to DS9 to create the gayest possible support for my argument. :p

[Publius]

To be honest, neither Pats nor Genos are all that good. They're just tourist traps. Once you see them in person you'll understand why (picture the neon lights of the Las Vegas strip).

Ouch, that's harsh. ;) Actually, my one visit to Philadelphia (which was earlier this year) I did try both Pat's and Geno's. So I know what you're talking about re: neon lights (at least with respect to Geno's). Both were good but not as amazing as I had been hyped up to expect. So I was wondering if there was someplace else I should try. Next time I'll see if I can go to Jim's.

On the same topic: provolone or whiz?

[Publius]

A way better spot would be Jim's Steaks, on the corner of 4th & South.

Well, you're right. I went to both Pat's and Geno's the first time. Couple weeks ago I went to Jim's while passing through Philly again. It was better than both of the others. Next you'll have to recommend a place in Jersey for me.

[Eyebiter]

Sports act as a surrogate form of tribal warfare. In our modern era there are societal prohibitions on killing and maiming your enemy. Thus the popularity of team sports, to give the masses a "healthy" outlet for their pent up aggressions.

Why are they so popular? Fans sit in the stands or watch TV in safety. Yet their view allows them to project themselves into the conflict on the court or field.

Now that ticket prices are $200 per seat for live events, cable networks are increasingly turning to pay per view to extract capital from home television fans.

[MikePizzoff]

Well, you're right. I went to both Pat's and Geno's the first time. Couple weeks ago I went to Jim's while passing through Philly again. It was better than both of the others. Next you'll have to recommend a place in Jersey for me.

Definitely! It's kind of tough right now because so many of the [formerly] great South Jersey places have recently gone under new management so I'm still trying to get my bearings straight on what's gonna be my new "go-to" place for cheesesteaks. The place a block from my house WAS voted #1 Philly Cheesesteak by multiple reputable sources from 2004-2009, but recently switched over owners and has completely lost its appeal to me. :(

[DubiousComforts]

Sports act as a surrogate form of tribal warfare. In our modern era there are societal prohibitions on killing and maiming your enemy.
I'm waiting for Death Race before I'll follow any organized sports. They said it would be out in the year 2000. I'm still waiting.

[Trencher]

Sports act as a surrogate form of tribal warfare. In our modern era there are societal prohibitions on killing and maiming your enemy. Thus the popularity of team sports, to give the masses a "healthy" outlet for their pent up aggressions.

This is the truth. Sport was invented as a replacement for war and even in modern times people go through ritualized socializing behavior just to get rid of agression. I was with my nephew on a local football event and it was huge flags, people marching, chanting and uniforms everywhere. It was quite the spectacle, it looked like a naziparade from old documentaries. So as you might understand the fact that each team changes players often and has little regional value is a good thing not bad.

[Mike70]

sports and even more to the point, exercise have their places in life. forget pro sports for a bit. i am a big believer in people being involved in some sort of physical activity (i know that i have joked in the past about it, but i actually exercise regularly). the fact that there are so many disgusting fat people in our country, whose number is growing daily, is one reason to encourage EVERYONE to take part in either a sport or some form of physical activity. i prefer hiking and kayaking. there are a myriad of ways to get yourself up and outside.

if there is a doom on this country it will not be wrought by politicians nor by democrats, republicans, communists, or neo-nazis. it will be the fault of fat people sitting in front of video games. don't cry just yet, video games have their place but like everything else in life, moderation is the key.

[AcesandEights]

Professional sports is a whorehouse where the revolutionary ideals of your forefathers have been corrupted and sold on the back alleys of capitalism!

[Mike70]

Professional sports is a whorehouse where the revolutionary ideals of your forefathers have been corrupted and sold on the back alleys of capitalism!

impressive. you might have a future as a demagogue.:lol:

[AcesandEights]

impressive. you might have a future as a demagogue.:lol:

I only aspire to being on the right side of the barbed wire and holding a swagger stick ;)

[BillyRay]

Professional sports is a whorehouse where the revolutionary ideals of your forefathers have been corrupted and sold on the back alleys of capitalism!

"My name is Alexei Yuri Gagarin Siege of Stalingrad Glorious Five Year Plan Sputnik Tractor Moscow Dynamo Back Four Balowski. Me Dad was a bit of a Communist, know what I mean?"

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