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Trin
24-May-2010, 07:00 PM
Alright, I have tons of questions and lines of thought on Survival and this is one of them.

What part does the horse eating play in the whole thing?

Looking back at the movies we have a lot of attention given to zombie eating practices, either around when/how they eat humans or attempts to get them to eat other things.

Examples:
- Zombie eats bugs in Night (probably inconsequential given it was the first)
- Fischer attempting to feed "beef treat" to zombies to get them to accept a substitute food source in Day
- Bub ignoring the instinct to feed on humans in Day (whether trained or simply his nature)
- Big Daddy ignoring eating humans in Land, and convincing other zombies to do the same
- A general lack of attention to zombies naturally eating animals throughout the series

Now we add in Survival.

- A zombie is shown to ignore a pig for what we assume to be an extended period of time. We are also led to believe this was not the first attempt and that all zombies thus far had ignored the alternate food sources available.
- Zombie sister takes a bite out of living sister.
- Zombie sister eventually takes a bite out of the horse, and then the zombies descend on the horse en masse.

What can we draw from all this?

Will a zombie eat an animal? Sometimes.
Will a zombie choose animal over human? Seems not, or at least in a very slim case.

My biggest question - why a horse? It doesn't make sense for Muldoon to think the dead girl would even consider eating a horse. Horses are not generally considered food sources, and in this case the girl would be particularly predisposed against eating a horse. She loved horses. If he were trying to create the best environment for her to eat an alternative this seems an awful choice.

Unless... what if the whole point is that the dead girl attacked and bit something she loved? What if that's what we're really supposed to glean from it all? She bit her sister... she bit her horse. Maybe Muldoon was at wits end and decided to see if she'd eat something she loved?

It's almost genius on GAR's part. Yes, zombies can be shown to eat alternative food sources. But in this case it's almost worse than what we had before. She only gave in when it was something beloved. So it proves Muldoon's argument but doesn't help the situation at all.

Another observation on the topic. Did anyone else notice that any zombie that was restrained was not lunging at the end of their chains whenever a human was near? They all but ignored humans in close proximity. But as soon as they were released they became agitated and aggressive? I thought that was interesting. By and large the zombies were more docile than Bub, who to this point was considered an aberration. I'm not sure what to make of that.

And, finally, what does the whole horse eating subplot have to do with the social commentary? Is there social commentary in that? Beyond the tie-in with the O'Flynn/Muldoon rivalry, that is.

Incidentally, I'm hoping to avoid discussion about the fact that she rode the horse in this thread. There's already a thread to discuss that aspect of the movie.

krakenslayer
24-May-2010, 07:35 PM
Alright, I have tons of questions and lines of thought on Survival and this is one of them.

What part does the horse eating play in the whole thing?

Looking back at the movies we have a lot of attention given to zombie eating practices, either around when/how they eat humans or attempts to get them to eat other things.

Examples:
- Zombie eats bugs in Night (probably inconsequential given it was the first)
- Fischer attempting to feed "beef treat" to zombies to get them to accept a substitute food source in Day
- Bub ignoring the instinct to feed on humans in Day (whether trained or simply his nature)
- Big Daddy ignoring eating humans in Land, and convincing other zombies to do the same
- A general lack of attention to zombies naturally eating animals throughout the series

Now we add in Survival.

- A zombie is shown to ignore a pig for what we assume to be an extended period of time. We are also led to believe this was not the first attempt and that all zombies thus far had ignored the alternate food sources available.
- Zombie sister takes a bite out of living sister.
- Zombie sister eventually takes a bite out of the horse, and then the zombies descend on the horse en masse.

What can we draw from all this?

Will a zombie eat an animal? Sometimes.
Will a zombie choose animal over human? Seems not, or at least in a very slim case.

My biggest question - why a horse? It doesn't make sense for Muldoon to think the dead girl would even consider eating a horse. Horses are not generally considered food sources, and in this case the girl would be particularly predisposed against eating a horse. She loved horses. If he were trying to create the best environment for her to eat an alternative this seems an awful choice.

Unless... what if the whole point is that the dead girl attacked and bit something she loved? What if that's what we're really supposed to glean from it all? She bit her sister... she bit her horse. Maybe Muldoon was at wits end and decided to see if she'd eat something she loved?

It's almost genius on GAR's part. Yes, zombies can be shown to eat alternative food sources. But in this case it's almost worse than what we had before. She only gave in when it was something beloved. So it proves Muldoon's argument but doesn't help the situation at all.

Another observation on the topic. Did anyone else notice that any zombie that was restrained was not lunging at the end of their chains whenever a human was near? They all but ignored humans in close proximity. But as soon as they were released they became agitated and aggressive? I thought that was interesting. By and large the zombies were more docile than Bub, who to this point was considered an aberration. I'm not sure what to make of that.

And, finally, what does the whole horse eating subplot have to do with the social commentary? Is there social commentary in that? Beyond the tie-in with the O'Flynn/Muldoon rivalry, that is.

Incidentally, I'm hoping to avoid discussion about the fact that she rode the horse in this thread. There's already a thread to discuss that aspect of the movie.

Very interesting observations, some of which I agree with, some still bother me a little.

I know you didn't want us to mention the riding of the horse, but I think it is relevant: why did she spend weeks riding the horse around the island without taking a bite, only to chow down once stuck in a paddock for five minutes with the very same horse. Was it something to do with the fact that she is no longer riding it, and so it is no longer viewed within her psychology as a means of locomotion, but just an animal? Or is it because she just got her first bite of flesh (from her sister) but was refused the "full meal", so having been thrown into a feeding frenzy by the taste of human flesh, she took out her hunger urges on the nearest warm living thing? I'm not sure if this is an oversight by Romero or if I'm just missing the point.

Sammich
24-May-2010, 08:43 PM
My guess is that zombies react much like sharks.

The primary prey of zombies are humans, but sometimes will mistakenly eat bugs or animals. If there is a large amount of blood scent in the air, a group may go into a feeding frenzy and start attacking any living thing within reach.

There could be mutations of what is causing the dead to rise and it leaves some with more memory and reasoning abilities than others, especially if in life they were very disciplined or passionate about something.

Trin
24-May-2010, 09:01 PM
I know you didn't want us to mention the riding of the horse, but I think it is relevant
Yes, in the context of what you added it is absolutely relevant and a very valid point. Why did she all of a sudden decide it was lunch? Was sis an appetizer? Did she take a bite of person and decide she was hungry after all?

The fact that the girl had been riding that chunk of food for weeks before she ate it - was it calculated on GAR's part or just a plot oversight?

I'm struggling to decide if there is subtle genius there or an example of lazy plot.

Rancid Carcass
24-May-2010, 11:50 PM
I think the point being made was that zombies will eat animals if there is nothing better around. If you look at the scene with the pig tied to a pole, they were trying to get the zombie to eat the pig but it wasn't interested because there were people in close proximity. It's kind of like raiding the fridge, you eat all the good stuff first then make do with whatever's left at the end of the week. I'm sure we've all done that! It was only at the end when everyone was either dead or left the island that they turned on the livestock. That's how I see it anyway.

JonOfTheShred
25-May-2010, 01:54 AM
I think the point being made was that zombies will eat animals if there is nothing better around. If you look at the scene with the pig tied to a pole, they were trying to get the zombie to eat the pig but it wasn't interested because there were people in close proximity.

I noticed that as well. Why stand around and watch the zombie if you want to teach it to eat something else? They were only being distractions.


It's kind of like raiding the fridge, you eat all the good stuff first then make do with whatever's left at the end of the week.

Best way of putting it, IMO.

Trin
25-May-2010, 04:36 AM
The zombie (Timothy's boy) had been in the pen with the pig for 3 days. And he wasn't the first. The ranch hand says, "We haven't had a dumb fu#& yet take a bite out of the pig." It stands to reason there was not a human standing there the entire time.

Also, live sister was standing right there watching when zombie sister took a bite out of the horse. Zombie sister even looks over at her as she chews on it. So the idea that no one was around is right out. The rest of the group had only left the scene seconds before too.

There's definitely some crucial point of zombie learning here. Prior to the shootout scene Muldoon says:
"We tried this with a lot of the deadheads. We tried feeding them rabbits, squirrels, pigs. This time we're gonna try something bigger."

"Trying to keep the fallen with us. Can't ever do that unless we can keep them from eating something that ain't human. It's important - and not just for us but for the rest of the world."

"Let the others out of the stable. Let them see what's going on. Who knows? Maybe they'll learn something."

Sarge says (as they're on the boat leaving - as we also see zombies eating the horse):
"Still I wondered. What if we could teach the dead to eat something that wasn't us. What if Muldoon was right?"

EvilNed
25-May-2010, 09:25 AM
Maybe they only eat things they're attached too? Like pets they like, people and stuff like that...

krakenslayer
25-May-2010, 12:48 PM
Maybe they only eat things they're attached too? Like pets they like, people and stuff like that...

That's actually a really chilling possibility. Strong emotional attachments are carried over into their "afterlife", but are channeled into hunger rather than love, like a serial killer who murders the women he falls in love with.

This could even extend to why they strive to eat human flesh in general: somewhere inside they "know" something is wrong with themselves and the hordes around them. They spot a living human, perhaps someone they know or even a complete stranger, lurch towards them for what, unconsciously, might be a need for help or comfort, but upon feeling the familiar warmth of the flesh, cannot fight the reptilian urge to chow down.