Worst relationship/dating stories?

[JDFP]

Right off the bat, I'm going to make an announcement that other than my grandma and my granny, I just don't really trust women (including my mother, who is crazier than most of the crazy gals I've dated). I don't have anything against women, I just don't really trust them as a general rule of thumb. Are there some amazing gals out there? Sure. I'd like to meet them too. It seems that two things have occurred with my dating in the past: 1. I'm lousy at finding girls that aren't thieves, whores, and just plain trash (even though they generally don't come off this way to begin with). 2. There just aren't alot of people (women AND men) out there that are really worth a shit. I hate most people straight-out becuase they are mostly scum (at least from my experiences). However, when a guy friend hates you or screws you over, it's usually no where near as personal or cruel as a gal doing it (at least from what I've seen).

I'd be remiss if I said I haven't made some terribly poor choices in the 'ladies' I've chosen to date. I met one girl at a bar while seriously drunk (Rule # 1: Do NOT ever pick up girls at a bar, especially a hole-in-the-wall redneck bar that I go to for the primary purpose of getting drunk and listening to Merle Haggard). I dated TWO girls I worked with (Rule # 2: NEVER date a girl you work with, this only ends badly, don't do it!), and I jumped way too fast into a relationship with one gal when all my friends were telling me that I shouldn't (Rule # 3: If your friends are all telling you that she's not good, you should usually listen to them; you almost never will, but you should).

So, a funny thing has really happened the last couple of years (I'm 29 now); I've realized what it took my dad three failed marriages (mom has gone through three of them too, I always thought her and my dad were in a race to see which one could end up with more divorces) to realize: I'm perfectly content and happy being single. Really, I mean life is simple and I don't have to worry about anyone except myself (and watching out for family of course). I get up in the mornings and get ready for work, work, and go home and have the evening to myself. I watch whatever I want whenever I want to, go wherever I want when I want, and it's freaking fantastic. I'm just really not interested right now in dating or having a serious relationship. Not that there's anything in the world wrong with it, but it's just not for me where I am as a person right now. The sad thing is that it's taken me until the last few years to really realize this as I used to think I *needed* to be in a relationship which caused me to go from one bad relationship of heartache and disappointment (and credit card theft and fraud in one case -- that was fun!) to another bad one.

Anyway, enough of my incessant rambling. What about you all? Any horror stories? What are your worst relationship/dating stories? Where do you stand now on the whole deal of relationships/dating?

j.p.

[acealive1]

besides the fact im in a relationship right now, i TOTALLY agree with you. i had virtually no luck until a couple of years ago. cap can tell u about some of the strumpets i ran into.


in ohio for the most part color matters. i've seen multiple people tell their kids date anyone but a black guy. it's kind of mind boggling that in 2010 color is still something that people hate....yet they go tanning.

[Trin]

So j.p., is this a thinly veiled attempt to troll the forum for chicks? :p :lol:

[AcesandEights]

Sounds like I've been asked to tell the tale of my life story :p


So j.p., is this a thinly veiled attempt to troll the forum for chicks? :p :lol:

Or troll the chicks of the forum, depending on how anti-womenfolk this thread gets :lol:

I may contribute my rogue's gallery list of past girlfriends when I have a bit more time.

[Andy]

Capn will tell you what i been like with my ex's and ive been with some shitty girls (especially the last one lol) but i really think ive struck gold this time and me an my girl have been together over a year now and i couldnt ask for more from her.

Just keep your chin up buddy.

[JDFP]

So j.p., is this a thinly veiled attempt to troll the forum for chicks? :p :lol:

Wait, we have chicks now? :stunned: (of course Marie and Chic and occasionally Debbie, but they are part of our little family), but otherwise I can't think of any that last very long. :p

I'm not trying to be anti-womenfolk, just interested in hearing others horror stories about relationships/dating in general as well as your thoughts on the whole process. I'm personally at a point where I just don't care anymore and just ain't interested in the whole thing at all. Too much previous bad mojo.

It is a little frustrating when you have friends/family etc. that are trying to always set you up when you keep trying to explain to them over, and over, and over again... sigh... that you just aren't interested in dating right at this moment in time. That usually also leads to people staring at you like you're crazy. Why do some people just not understand that alot of us that are single just prefer being single? Is it that difficult to grasp that concept?

Chic/Marie/Debbie and any other 'chics' here that accidentally stumble across the forum and decide to post are, of course, more than welcome to also post their horror stories of dating/relationships too. :cool:

j.p.

[acealive1]

Capn will tell you what i been like with my ex's and ive been with some shitty girls (especially the last one lol) but i really think ive struck gold this time and me an my girl have been together over a year now and i couldnt ask for more from her.

Just keep your chin up buddy.


thats true. chin up.

[slickwilly13]

If you want to find "good girls", then travel. People from diffrent parts of the world will act diffrent from one another. There are diffrent cultures, upbringings, and situations. For example, if you look at women from Central America or Eastern Europe they are not going to act like some spoiled and materialistic American girl who parties and does drugs. Sure, they are out there in those places, too, but you will have a better chance at finding someone with better morals or family values. If you are not finding it in TN, then I suggest looking elsewhere.

I am in the same boat as you with women. And it seems like the good girls in my area are already hooked up. I was fortunate enough to meet an exchange student from Odessa, Ukraine a couple of years ago and stayed in touch with her when she went back. Move forward to today and I can honestly say we are very close. We are not bf/gf, because she is on the other side of the world, but if she was over here, then we would be an item. She has more class in her middle finger than most women I dated.

I know for a fact the Pizz is hooked up with a South American, so I am certain he could touch base on the subject about women from diffrent parts of the world and how they act compared to local women.

The single life rules and there is nothing wrong with it if that is what makes you happy. But for those who are not finding what you are looking for locally, then it is time to look elsewhere.

[Tricky]

I've had more than my fair share of relationships or potential relationships that havent worked out either due to me or due to the girl, in fact im very close to breaking things off with the girl i've been with for the past year, she's a really nice, very intelligent & very pretty girl, but we have very little in common which means I cant get her to gigs or to do anything exciting, & call me an arsehole as I know a lot of girls will, but for superficial reasons I've gone off her too.

The girlfriend before the one im with now left me absolutely gutted, we had a whirlwind romance in the first 3 months of 2008 which I wasnt expecting & I fell for her in a big way, but before meeting me she'd arranged to go & work on a cruise ship in the Caribbean for 8 months, we both agreed that we'd keep things going while she was away & that when she came back we'd start making plans for a future! Normally I dont fall for people that quickly but I was besotted with her (which made me naive). So we had 3 months together as a proper couple, then she left to work abroad. The first 2 months or so that she was away it seemed to be going well, we were in touch every day with emails,texts & phonecalls, but then all of a sudden I hardly heard from her for a couple of weeks, then she sent me some long winded message about the distance being too much and she couldnt see it working out etc, which was bad enough, then the next day she altered her facebook relationship status to say she was with some dickhead she'd met on the ship, I was crushed! Took me the rest of that year to get over it, sad eh! Worst part is I should hate her for the fact she ditched me for some other bloke, but I'd get back with her in an instant if i could :rolleyes:

I've had a lot of casual relationships over the years too, but I agree with whats been posted above that I actually prefer being single, certainly while im still relatively young! Too many girls have these unrealistic expectations of a relationship which I blame on all these american shows like "Friends" and "one tree hill" that they're spoon fed daily, and far too many try & turn lads into a boring farts who stay in all the time, which doesnt suit me at all seen as Im very much into socialising, keeping fit, music gigs, extreme sports & outdoor adventures. Call me selfish but I dont see why I should give up all that, just because im in a relationship, and although its nice to be with someone long term, im not interested in turning my life into some uneventful "mature" situation where the only excitement is visiting Ikea or occasional nights out/cinema trips. Theres a lot of old mates I've had over the years who have gone down that route and I dont see them anymore, we havent fallen out or anything, but as soon as they got a girlfriend they just disappeared never to be seen again which makes me feel a bit sad sometimes :(
As JDFP said, I too used to think I *needed* to be in a relationship, but I actually dont, and although I'm in one now I'm kinda looking for a way out (Im a coward & darent be upfront & honest with her just yet). It'll all change when/if I find "the one" I suppose, but for the moment I'd just like to be on my own again to live life as I see fit!

[acealive1]

jd, try going outta town. or los angeles. u don get laid there, i might have to lay hands on you

[Tricky]

Book yourself a flight to Magaluf this summer, theres women from every country in Europe holidaying there, and I shit you not, Polish women are the most beautiful I've ever met, I've met plenty of them on my travels and im yet to meet one that isnt drop dead gorgeous! :stunned:

[MikePizzoff]

Will's right. I've been living with my girlfriend for 2 years now, and it's been the best 2 years of any relationship I've been in - by far. Her family is Ecuadorian, so she does have values/morals/etc much different than every other woman I've dated. She truly believes in compromise and equality in our relationship, not this "ME ME ME" shit we've all dealt with at one point or another. It's great.

I dated one girl for 5 years, and we were close to best friends for 3-4 years prior to that. Toward the end of the relationship, shit started to get pretty rocky. The day before I embarked on a tour, she sent me an e-mail saying we should take a break - I found that pretty conspicuous considering I was about to be far away for weeks. When I returned home, she acted like she wanted to work things out. Long story short, while I was on my best behavior and treating her like the Queen of England, she was busy fucking dudes (and so-called "FRIENDS" of mine) behind my back! After I finally told her to fuck off, she acted like it was all my fault and I haven't really spoken to her since.

[darth los]

After I finally told her to fuck off, she acted like it was all my fault and I haven't really spoken to her since.

Well isn't that what they all do despite their hoeyness? :rolleyes:

:cool:

[acealive1]

Will's right. I've been living with my girlfriend for 2 years now, and it's been the best 2 years of any relationship I've been in - by far. Her family is Ecuadorian, so she does have values/morals/etc much different than every other woman I've dated. She truly believes in compromise and equality in our relationship, not this "ME ME ME" shit we've all dealt with at one point or another. It's great.

I dated one girl for 5 years, and we were close to best friends for 3-4 years prior to that. Toward the end of the relationship, shit started to get pretty rocky. The day before I embarked on a tour, she sent me an e-mail saying we should take a break - I found that pretty conspicuous considering I was about to be far away for weeks. When I returned home, she acted like she wanted to work things out. Long story short, while I was on my best behavior and treating her like the Queen of England, she was busy fucking dudes (and so-called "FRIENDS" of mine) behind my back! After I finally told her to fuck off, she acted like it was all my fault and I haven't really spoken to her since.








some girls are cunts

[paulannett]

Book yourself a flight to Magaluf this summer, theres women from every country in Europe holidaying there, and I shit you not, Polish women are the most beautiful I've ever met, I've met plenty of them on my travels and im yet to meet one that isnt drop dead gorgeous! :stunned:

Magaluf is a cock fest! C'mon! I've been twice and the first time I got lucky with a stunning English girl (mini-holiday romance!) and the second time, there were 5 guys per girl!

Go backpacking! I've never had sooo much fun and never had so many women trying it on with me... my accent does wonders! Seriously, I was only away for 3 weeks and I had my choice of women of many nationalities (American, Canadian, Polish and Spanish being my top picks!). Oh and I agree with what you say about Polish women, wow. I was in Krakow for a few days and I was blown away!

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

As for relationships and dating etc, they are nice to be in, but are over-rated. HOWEVER, if you are in a relationship, let it be a part of your life. NEVER let it be your life.

[MikePizzoff]

Ah, here's another fucked up one for ya...

There's this girl that a lot of people used to talk trash on. My room mate would talk trash on her and say she's a piece of shit human being. Somehow the two start dating?

Slowly my room mate starts disappearing. Not hanging out as much and whatnot. Fast forward...

Now it's to the point where he doesn't EVER hang out. This dude has been one of my good friends for over a decade and this bitch comes along and basically ruins our friendship. Through word, I've heard that she tells him not to hang out with me or my friends because she doesn't like us (for no good reason). The only days she "allows" him to do anything are Monday nights and Tuesday nights. But she still stops in to "check on him".

She has manipulated him, along with my other room mate, to move out of our house and into a different one with her. This is super fucked up because now my girlfriend and I have to find another place to live. This was without warning, too. They basically said "Uh, we're moving so find a place within a month."

He keeps making up excuses saying "it's too expensive to live in this house", yet we live in the cheapest house within miles and miles because the landlord is a family friend of our other room mate so she cuts us a huge break. $1,200 a month for our house split between 4 people is "too much" - yet he's willing to move out, into a more expensive house, with only 3 people? Bullshit! His girlfriend is forcing him to move out so she can completely shut him off from the outside world. We all know it.

Here's one example of why this chick sucks majorly (aside from turning my buddy into a zombie): Some dude came over and trashed our basement when nobody was home. I told the dude to stay away from our house. Guess what the crazy girlfriend said about me... "He's over reacting and being immature". She knew damn well it's super fucked up that someone trashed our basement, the only reason she said that about me was to turn people (more importantly, my room mate) against me.

Gah, I could go on about how much I hate her. Sorry guys, I needed to vent.

[Tricky]

Slowly my room mate starts disappearing. Not hanging out as much and whatnot. Fast forward...

Now it's to the point where he doesn't EVER hang out. This dude has been one of my good friends for over a decade and this bitch comes along and basically ruins our friendship.

A lot of girls do that to blokes, unfortunately very few blokes fight against it and most just disappear off the scene, as said before I've lost a few friends over that, we havent fallen out and I would love to go for a beer with them again, but they're too far gone with the missus unfortunately & live in a little bubble where theres just the two of them! Im not one of those, I split my time between her & my friends, and she doesnt get a say on not seeing them or stopping things that I enjoyed doing before I met her (like my paintballing & nights out etc) :)

[fartpants]

its sad to say but most blokes when with a girl tend to think with the little head not the big one, and even sadder is that women know this and use it against us everyday...

[DjfunkmasterG]

That is so true FP...

Shit, until recently I never opened myself up to any women accept for one who I barely know, and I can't figure out why. She was cool about it

hell since my divorce 5 years ago I didn't get into any serious relationships, and not because she fucked me up that bad its because I figrued all women were devious and not worthy of myt ime or attention, I mean I dated but I said fuck this too many mind games I will just go hunting for short term company or friends with benefits type of shit.

[Wyldwraith]

I'm gonna win the prize here, so here goes:

I'm 13yrs old and a rather introverted, bookish/intellectual/socially awkward type, that somehow didn't fall into the classic "nerd" social niche (but only because I could fight at 2x my weight effectively) ((Thank you Mom for insisting I stick with martial arts since I was so young I hardly remember starting)) So, instead I end up a social pariah/Outsider-classified type.

Had 2-3 good friends, and pretty much tuned out/was tuned out by everyone else at my Middle School/Junior High (was 7th Grade)...so anyways, one day my friend Larry starts bitching about his girlfriend...badmouthing her, sayin a lot of crude shit, and talkin about how they needed to break up, but that her and her friends always ganged up on him, bleh. So anyways, I get roped into going with him during the Free Portion of our P.E class (which is shared by like half the 7th grade), to where the girls hang out under this huge Oak tree (like only significant shade anywhere on the field where they turned us loose for the Free P.E-portion.)

We walk over to this group of 3-4 girls, and with no lead-in, Larry just starts ranting the most vile shit in the world at this girl, in response to her saying "Hi hon" and greeting him with a warm smile and an attempt at a hug. My 1st reaction is like "Wow, unless she murdered his siblings or parents, NOTHING she could POSSIBLY have done merits this sort of verbal abuse."

She sits there just stunned for several seconds as he finally winds down. I'm equally stunned, never having seen my friend of 3yrs behave in such an awful way...then she just bursts into uncontrollable weeping, sobbing and shaking. (Need to pause here and say that I'd seen a lot of girls cry, and even at that young age I was all-but-immune to girls turning on the water works-tears to gain an emotional/social advantage...but for some reason HER TEARS just tugged powerfully at something deep in my feelings...left me feeling the classic White Knight desire to make everything all better, and make her smile again.)

Larry doesn't miss a beat, and laughs for a moment at her crying...obviously enjoying her being hurt/upset...very VISIBLY savoring it. Then out of nowhere he rages out and SLAPS HER twice in rapid succession. HARD. Hard enough to knock her backwards into the tree behind her, where she smacks the back of her head hard against it and gets dumped on her ass, all groggy and disoriented, with Larry standing over her beginning to LAUGH AT THIS AGAIN.

I'm not normally given to wild swings of emotion, but right at that moment...something that had gone into motion when she (Samantha) first began to cry, crystallized due to this evil S.O.B's laughter due to his physical abuse of her into this explosive rage inside me. Not a hot out-of-control kind of rage...more an ice-cold matter-of-fact fury.

Ever so calmly I say "Hey Larry" in a casual tone to catch his attention, and then as he turns towards me I just hit him as hard as I possibly could three times in the face, then jumped forward and crashed into him, knocking him down and continuing to beat his ass, not letting up for even a second, and he's so disoriented Larry can't even really defend himself. When he finally manages to turn sideways and get into a full Fetal Position and begin crying himself, my anger turned to disgust and I finally stopped hitting him...

Then something stranger happened. I felt almost PHYSICALLY drawn over to Samantha, to make sure she was ok, though I had no idea what I, a complete stranger, could do to make anything better for her...

Moving the account along...from that day I carried a major torch for this girl, and we were an on again/off-again, will-we/won't-we, frustrating as Hell kinda item from then until 11th grade. The only constant being we remained best friends over the years.

Fast forward several years, end of 12th grade (like the 2nd weekend before graduation)..she arranges for us to go out for the day socially, then, at the end of the day when I'm dropping her off, turns to me and tells me she's getting married to this guy Bryan...because he's going into the military right out of high school and will be able to get her out of her psycho parents house, but he (feeling threatened by me) demands she cut off contact with me. Which she agreed to, basically telling me goodbye for good right there...

Last time I hear from her for like 2yrs. Hear through the grapevine they got married, but things went all kinds of sour, and at various times finances forced the two of them to move in with either his parents or her own...

So, 5 1/2 yrs after high school is over she calls me up hysterical...totally out of the blue. Telling me Bryan had been hitting her, and that he'd, ahem.."forced her"...and that she'd left him, but because they'd been living with her parents, who took HIS side...she had nowhere to go...

I felt awful for her...enough time had gone by that while somewhere in the back of my head feelings for her still lurked, the vastly larger part of me just felt compassion for an old friend in DEEP SHIT. Well, my grandmother had recently moved in with us, since my grandfather had passed away a couple years earlier (me and my family, who I continued to live with due to serious health probs of my own).

I talk to my family, and convince them to let Samantha come down here and live at my grandmother's house, which had essentially been standing vacant...with no more cost than her agreement to begin paying the utilities herself in a few months once she'd gotten a job/on her feet.

So that's all arranged, and she comes down her with the car she rented with what cash she had...Swear to God, up until she stepped out of that car in my driveway, walked over and threw her arms around me, ALL I was thinking was helping out one of the best friends I'd ever had...no matter what had come between us....

Once she touched me though, the chemistry between us roared back to life explosively. Suffice to say, she never made it to my grandmother's...at least no until after we were an item and I went with her.

So, for eight months and several days things were GREAT. Should probably mention that I was 24-25 by then, and had refrained from ...being intimate with any woman until her...just hadn't been interested with anyone else...so Samantha was my first...

So things were great...until I started discovering the lies she'd been telling me, one by one. Not little lies either. BIG ones. Like, she'd never formally even LEFT her husband...despite having sworn to me she'd filed for divorce. And that's just one of the big lies, but it gives you the idea.

Well eventually her husband shows up on her doorstep wanting her back (I'd found out by then, having caught her calling him on the sly, that they were discussing possible reconciliation...while all the while me and her had been talking marriage when her divorce came through)

So...I totally debase myself. Beg her not to go...does no good, and she goes back to him.....on CHRISTMAS EVE no less.

Bad, right?

Well, in the interim I'm just an emotionally destroyed husk of a shadow of a human being....hardly even remember the next month. Well, she calls me at the end of January, begging my forgiveness and wanting me back, telling me NOW its REALLY over with her and her husband. Fool that I was, I believe her and take her back.

Things go along great for the next 3-4 months...but then one day she tells me her childhood friend Anna had just tried to kill herself (Anna lives in Maryland)...and that she needs to go up there and be there for her. I try to talk her out of it because Samantha had just been getting over serious pneumonia of her own...and the cold climate shift wouldn't do her any favors, but she stands firm about going. Equally firm in making excuses why I can't accompany her.

At last I bow to her wishes, it being her right as an adult to go anywhere she damn well pleases...and I get ready to drive her to the bus station. My mother (who could see the deceit I refused to), insisted on driving us down there herself...citing the excuse I'd been sick myself. So she drives us down there.

Even I can tell something fucked up is going on, because once we get to the bus station Sam goes from being all lovey-dovey "God I'm gonna miss u while I'm gone" to all cool and distant, barely pecking me on the cheek goodbye, before marching into the bus station without a look back.

Well my Mom drives the van around the bus station and parks in the abandoned train station depot next door after circling the block where we can remain concealed, but insists I go over to the wood-paneled fence seperating the 2 parking lots and watch the bus station to see what happens.

Sure enough, ten minutes later Samantha comes out of the bus station crying with some middle-aged woman and gets into this lady's car and drives back into downtown. I'm crushed, totally betrayed, and go home in complete silence.

Bad enough, right?

Wrong. Half an hour after we get home THE POLICE SHOW UP...because Samantha's mother had apparently called them, telling them her daughter had told her I was HOLDING HER AGAINST HER WILL...

I get cuffed, my head slammed deliberately against a cruiser door, and tossed into the back of a squad car while my parents let them search the entire house for Samantha...telling them to call the bus station and ask the clerk to confirm a girl with vivid red hair and a NEON GREEN jacket had come in awhile ago. Once they do so they let me go, without an apology by the way...then Samantha herself calls the police, and they patch her through to the cops at my house, where she admits everything she'd told her mother was a lie in order to avoid her family and her husband thinking she'd shacked up with me again...but she'd never expected her Mom to call the cops on me for kidnapping...

The COPS THEMSELVES are horrified at the sheer fucked up EVIL of what this girl has done to me and my whole family, for such a shitty, selfish, superficial reason. They leave, shaking their heads, with comments like "Damn, it would've been LESS fucked up if that bitch had killed this poor guy and his family"

Should be the end of it, right?

Nope. Fool than I am, STILL couldn't get her out of my system. When they move back to Ocala a year later, Samantha calls me up...typically remorseful and repentant, declaring how much she'd missed me, and explaining all the reasons she couldn't leave her husband, but she still wanted to be with me nevertheless.

Thus began 2-3 yrs of an illicit affair with her. Me picking her up at their house after he'd gone to work, and dropping her off before he got home. Was a lot of fun actually.

Other stuff too private to discuss (relates to me leaving her finally, meeting someone else, being involved with them for 2yrs before getting married...having cut all ties with Samantha for the last 3yrs, during the entirety of mine and Erin's relationship/marriage) happened...

But you get the idea. The fucked up stuff didn't stop there, but I'm tired now, and that's all I can share atm.

Whatcha think, most twisted relationship stuff you've heard?

[MikePizzoff]

Damn Wyld, that was one fucked up story. How'd your friends feel about all of that? Anyone mad at you? Anyone laugh at you?

One fucked up thing I can remember about the ex (I spoke of previously) leaving me is a lot of my "friends" cracking jokes and finding it hilarious that I was in this slump of very serious depression for months. Needless to say, I cut those assholes out of my life and haven't really spoken to them since (this was 2.5 years ago, now).

[Mike70]

when i was 18, a girl i had dated a couple of times took me to her church. i thought i was just being polite - "of course i'll come to church with your family." i had done that before with other girlfriends and it wasn't a big deal.

WELL, this girl was a pentecostal and not knowing a fucking thing about pentecostals, i was literally blown away. people were getting crazy, jitterbugging around, speaking in tongues, just generally going crackerdog apeshit. i have never been so mortified in my entire life. flabbergasted does not even begin to cover it. worst thing was that i could not make an escape, i had ridden there with this chick's family and was stuck.

never in my whole life have i been more desirous of the power of teleportation.

anyhoo, i was so traumatized by the whole thing that i broke up with her.

[bassman]

:lol: That's hilarious, Mike. I too have seen one of those services and it is quite disturbing watching people speak in tongues and actually believe it.

The fact that you didn't know it was coming still has me laughing....

[Wyldwraith]

@Mike:
My friends thought I was insane to take her back, and then continue to take her back time after time. Shoulda listened.

Of course my marriage didn't go any better. I'd learned a lot about myself from the whole catastrophe of being involved with Samantha, and I eventually met Erin in a chatroom. Both of us were coming out of intensely fucked up, multi-years-long relationships, so we had a lot of common ground.

Erin did a LOT to put me back together emotionally. Was a good friendship, and I helped her in a similar way with her own ghosts/emotional issues. She was the first one to express having romantic feelings, that centered around me.

This time I was 120% up front about each and every one of my very serious flaws. Not least of which is/was health being so poor that I was 100% unable to work/attain gainful employment outside the house. Did everything I could to show her what a bad situation Erin would be mixing herself up in. Erin disregarded it all, saying things like "If you can't work I'll just take care of you and we'll do our best to get you healthy again. If we can't, I'll love you for being the man you are, and we'll find a way to make it work."

Erin finally convinced me to lower my last few protective barriers, and somehow wormed her way deep in my heart. Partially because through her, I'd learned to try and trust again.

Well, it was a long distance relationship to start. She was going to college in Salem, Mass., but we made do visiting each other as often as we could find time and money to do so. One of the healthiest things I gained was the ability (so I thought) to finally put Samantha behind me when Erin and I promised each other to have nothing further to do with our respective ex's.

After a few years of back-and-forth visiting, Erin finally graduated, and as we'd planned moved down here and were allowed by my family to take up residence in my grandmother's empty but extremely nice, completely furnished house rent free until we could afford to cover the utilities.

That's when the problems started of course. Erin couldn't find a job that utilized her (rather useless) European History degree...and grew more and more bitter about having to take a job as an Asst. Manager at a medical courier business....and even more bitter about me not being able to go out and work (despite the fact I was busting my ass as a house-husband/domestic partner, taking care of EVERYTHING needing doing BUT going out and getting a paycheck)

So much for her endlessly repeated vow to "Take care of me", eh?

Well, we went to relationship counselling...and for a time things seemed to improve a great deal. Enough that we went ahead with the wedding (though I did give her repeated opportunities to bow out and not go through with it/did everything to make it a pressure-free decision, because we'd been fighting ever more viciously again)

She did a one-eighty again, and convinced me wholeheartedly what she'd been saying/doing was just a result of pre-wedding jitters and her stress over her resentful friends and family's reactions (who hated me and us getting married because it meant Erin would be living in Florida personally. Not that they missed HER...just that she'd basically been a domestic servant they'd all taken advantage of for years, and they were upset to be losing that unpaid work-resource she embodied)

So we go through with it, and immediately everything goes to hell. 45 days after exchanging vows she leaves me with next to no warning. One minute we're talking marriage counseling, the next its "I want a divorce"...

So she goes back to Mass., but we continue to talk. Her family goes all psycho on her, determined to "pay her back for being such an ungrateful bitch as to leave them without her help" (something I actually heard her Mom say more than once.)

So once again Erin does a one-eighty, and manages to convince me over a period of 4-5 months she wants to give our marriage another chance, and that she's coming back....we set a time for her return and work it all out financially etc.

Three weeks before she's due to return to Florida she goes incommunicado on me. Then finally calls me up, tells me we're getting a divorce...and that's that. No further contact for months.

Well meanwhile a bit after all this (probably 2-3 months after Erin's declaration we're getting divorced and cutting contact with me) I bump into Samantha again while out shopping at the bookstore. We get to talking, and she asks me what's wrong (she could always read me like a book)...so I tell her what had happened...

Fast forward a bit...Samantha and I have become fast friends again, and we've worked things out between us to resolve our own feelings for each other once I'm mostly back to my old self thanks to her support. Her husband openly blesses her essentially having an extramarital relationship with me, and I actually get to be good friends with the guy (weird, huh?)...thus eliminating the need for lies and conflicts...

Well, that was going along really well until my ex-wife found out I was back with Samantha and actually HAPPY. Adopting a "I don't want him, but I don't want anyone else to have him either" attitude...Erin manages to track Samantha down on Myspace and falsifies a bunch of emails to make it look like I was still trying to get back with her while with Samantha.

So Samantha dumps me, believing me to be a two-timing liar (ironic for her, heh)...

And that's the ruin my life has remained in ever since. I don't even think I have any capacity whatsoever for real, deep-down trust anymore. Oh I fake it in order to maintain "friendships" with some people, just to have people to socialize with and not go crazy from boredom...but I'm emotionally scarred down to the bone, with no sign of things ever improving, especially given the exponential increase of my daily pain level for the last few years, until its finally rendered me a near-total shut-in in my family's house...and my room in specific.

So that's pretty much the story of my adult life. All of it together has just left me a kind of exhausted you don't recover from....

[Neil]

^^

*speachless** :(

[SymphonicX]

I've found no relationship to be 100%, not even my current one is 100%, and especially in the past my relationships haven't been even close to that but I disregard all my past relationships one way or another because I was a kid really. I've been with my fiancee for 8 years now, having been with her since I was 20 or so. Even at 20 years old I was still a kid really, finding my feet in the world and as such I made a load of mistakes and stupid decisions, but they were alligned with my mentality at the time - so to look back on certain ex girlfriends and criticise them for anything would be weird for me, because ultimately my mentality and the kind of person I was attracted that sort of girl to me and of course things didn't go to plan.

Currently my fiancee and I have been solid for a long, long time. It was whirlwind at the start and we found that the "honeymoon" period never really dies down, we still enjoy each other's company immensely. The issues I have is that comfortability becomes almost taken for granted - and sometimes when we do argue (which isn't too often but does happen) we find it very easy to resort to dirty tactics to prove a point, which we both know is simply because we are so comfortable with each other and ultimately know that we're in this for the long run, so we try to find reasons to shock each other.

But our issues are trivial in the grand scheme of things...I mean our last argument was about me holding my phone to her ear so she could speak to a friend while she was using a cashpoint...her point of view was that I should have gotten the money out for her instead but instead I didn't bother myself with it and held the phone cos I thought it'd be quicker - it's pathetic, and not a reason to argue...but if this is the only thing we can find to slap each other with, then I'm happy. It's trivial and we can resolve shit like that with a few angry words and a hug and a shag.

There were hairy moments in the past when we had a sort of open relationship. Things got a bit much with some random guy who took the word "open" to mean he could literally make a blatant attempt to steal her from me - she got caught up in a sort of whirlwind and substance dreamy haze because at the time we would party every week, very very hard...so it got a bit emotional and I called off the open thing until we could get our heads together - but this guy persisted and it got to a point where I made the "ultimatum" - she instantly accepted the ultimatum and never once looked back - and trust was restored. That was about 3 years ago...so that does tend to stick around a bit and can catalyse some paranoia from my perspective but a lot of it is easy to see is my perspective of myself reflecting on her. She is a rock and whilst she can piss me off no end, there isn't anything I wouldn't do to maintain our relationship and keep us on the straight and narrow. We oppose each other socially, I'm a bit of a self sufficient person (some would say loner) whilst she is very social - together we pull each other inwards with me helping her to see through some bullshit her "friends" put her through, and help reign in her altruistic tendencies when they are blatantly going to be ignored, and she gets me out in the open air, socialising and building up strong friendships....

[paulannett]

Wow, you guys have had some fucked up relationships. "On a break" and "open relationships" are both deal breakers, be with me or not, no middle ground.

As for you Wyld, WAT? There were red flags EVERYWHERE that this was always gonna end in a messy, hurtful fashion. I'm not ragging on you here, but I read your entire story shaking my head in disbelief!

Now that it's all in the past (thoughI'm not so convinced!), you need to get your act together and don't make the same horrible mistakes again!

[SymphonicX]

Wow, you guys have had some fucked up relationships. "On a break" and "open relationships" are both deal breakers, be with me or not, no middle ground.
!

For some people it's completely undebatable...but there is logic to the madness, that freedom means you don't feel the need to be unfaithful - and with that freedom, I've acted on it maybe 2/3 times in the past - and only actually went all the way with one girl, with which my fiancee was in the room at the time, on the same bed....shagging her too. Can't complain :) Basically the open relationship was in inverted commas because we are commited to each other but really don't mind getting someone else involved for giggles - and yeah it swings both ways (I don't swing both ways, the situation I mean) - we've done all sorts of crazy stuff.

But that was in the past and it did get slightly hairy - it's always the males that mess these situations up though, after all that happened me and the fiancee are pretty much only up for girls now anyway, far safer emotionally. but even if it never happened again, I wouldn't care tbh - I can say I've achieved most male's fantasy, so part of my ego can die happy. I draw the line at confiding emotionally in people that we may have physical relationships with - if she needs to go to someone else to confide and get support then I'd start to worry.

[rightwing401]

I've had a few bad experiences myself, though all of them were in highschool. I never really bothered with the whole relationship thing back in junior high. My first bad experience happened in my Sophmore year.

I had met this girl about a month into the new school year. Things were kind of akward between us, but there was definately an attraction. After taking quite a long time to grow enough of a pair, I finally asked her out. Because we were both still too young to drive on our own, and we really didn't want our parents getting involved in the whole mess before we could figure things out, we both agreed to hook up at a party that we both knew about on the coming Friday. Fast forward to the party, I'm basically on my own after my ride took off, spending somewhere close to an hour shifting through the masses looking for this girl. Finally getting a bit bumed out, I take a beer and go hang out in this gazeboo out in the back of the house. Now as I'm sitting out there, looking like a total dumbass because I'm sitting by myself, I finally spot the girl. I see that she's heading out back to where I am. I get so excited about finally seeing her that I didn't even realize until she's almost at the gazeboo that there's a dude trailing behind her. They both come in to where I am, and she looks straight at me, gives a smile that I've never seen before or since, and plops down with the guy on a hamock that was put up on the other side of the building. Now while I'm not even twenty feet away from them, they start making out in full french kissing like the entire world was going to blow up in the next ten minutes. I felt like some huge guy had punched me right in the stomach in that moment. With my head still spinning wildly trying to process what I had just saw, I stumbled away from them and wandered around for the rest of the night in a sort of daze. But here's the best part of this tale. The next Monday, the girl confronts after I didn't sit by her at lunch. The bitch actually couldn't understand why I didn't want to be her friend anymore, and asked if it had something to do with what happend the previous Friday night. I never gave her an answer, and I never talked to her after that.

Fast forward a year and a half later. I end up meeting this rather cute foreign exchange girl. She was a very quite and shy thing, which was probably what drew me to her in the first place. We never really interacted much during my junior year, but a wierd twist of fate found us both in summer school. Since neither of us had any friends going through the program, we started hanging out quite a bit. After a while I asked her out, and things were pretty good for the rest of the summer. Then, when we got back to our Senior year, everything changed. She started growing distant and not wanting to hang out with me, rathering instead to spend the time with her friends. Then one day, completely out of the blue, she calls me up and tells me its over. That's it, no explanations, nothing, just we're done. If that wasn't bad enough, she dumped me on the Friday of the week before September 11. So four days after having my heart crushed to pieces, I got treated to the image of the second plane smashing into the other twin tower on live tv. Long story short, I figured out why she dumped me about two weeks later when I saw her cuddling up with some dude that I've never seen before. Man, that left me fucked up for months.

Another realy doosy for me was when I finally got over her, my best friend told me about how him and his girlfriend, along with several of her friends, were planning a trip to the beach. Not wanting to be the only guy there, he asked me if I wouldn't mind tagging along. Having nothing else to do, I agreed. When we all finally met up, I was introduced to one of his girlfriend's friends, who was a very pretty black haired chick with glasses. She was kind of clumsy and very reserved, which once again created an immediate attraction for me. We spent the whole day on the beach hanging out, realizing that we had a lot in common and got along really well. At one point, she mentioned to me about how she's never kayaked. I offered to take her out on one that was nearby. She totally sucked at it, eventually falling out of it about a hundred yards from shore. I ended up catching her and helped her back in, then actually dragged her and the stupid little boat all the way back to shore. I got a very affectionate hung from her for my good deed. Anyway, the next day, I'm talking to my friend, trying to get the girl's number, telling him about what a great time I had with her and that it sucked that I didn't have anything to get her number with when we parted at the beach. Then he drops a bombshell on me, saying that his girlfriend told him to tell me that she didn't want me to call her, and that she wasn't interested in me at all. "Dude, what the fuck?" were the first words out of my mouth. Against his protests, I eventually got the girl's number and called her up. She gives me some crap about there was never any real connection between us and that we had nothing in common, completely contrary to what I knew happened at the beach. Not wanting to just give up, I offered to take her out to dinner and a movie of her choice, even giving her my word of honor that if she still didn't want to date me after that, I would leave her alone and never bother her again, no grudges or anything. She still refused, saything that I was sounding really desperate and annoying, and told me to hang up and never call again. What happened next was rather funny when I think back on it, but I think at the time I was just plain fed up with all the bullshit I had been dealt by the opposite sex.

"Can I say one last thing before I hang up and never speak to you again?" I asked. I hear a very angry grumble on the other end of the line.

"Fine, go ahead."

"You're fucking stupid."

There was a very, very long pause before she answered. "Excuse me?"

"You heard me, I said you're fucking stupid."

She started to say something, but I cut her off. "You do realize that I just offered you free dinner and a movie of your choice. I've even said that there would be no strings attatched if you didn't want to hang out after tonight. And you still refused. So to me, that makes you fucking stupid. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go out to dinner and catch a flick."

I hung up before she had a chance to say anything. I later found out that she had indeed thought that we had a somewhat ok cemestry that day at the beach, but apparently, at 5'10 and a 120 lbs, I wasn't nearly good looking enough to date. But you know what, I got the last laugh when I found out that a guy she chose over me had screwed around on her several times and left her completely devistated.

Fortunately now, I'm happily married to a good woman and all that dumb shit is behind me.

[MikePizzoff]

"Can I say one last thing before I hang up and never speak to you again?" I asked. I hear a very angry grumble on the other end of the line.

"Fine, go ahead."

"You're fucking stupid."

There was a very, very long pause before she answered. "Excuse me?"

"You heard me, I said you're fucking stupid."


:lol::lol::lol: You da man!
http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000022356/arseniohall.gif

[JDFP]

You know, as I've been reading all these multiple posts about women doing absolutely cruel and heartless things to guys it's really made me realize (and feel a little better) about knowing that I'm certainly not the only guy who has had to deal with a psycho.

I worked with this girl, who we shall refer to as Satan from this point forward, and the first time I saw her thought she was absolutely beautiful and wanted to get to know her better. Fighting all my nerves I ended up talking to her and got her number. Later on that evening I ended up giving her a call and we ended up talking like an hour (to me this was like an eternity as I'm not a "phone talking person"). We decided we were going to go out and hang out and go from there. To say the least, I was on cloud # 9 with excitement.

We end up hanging out and it's amazing. When she comes back to the apartment we end up kissing and go, ahem, from there. I would say that it's bad taste to sleep with a girl on the first date (and says something about her if she's willing to put out on the first date as well) but she's extremely attractive and I was certainly not thinking with the correct 'noggin.

Anyway, we become very close and start going out / spending time regularly. After awhile she all but ends up moving into my apartment with me (she has clothes there with her own drawer for them, hair-dryer, hair-straightener, shampoo, etc.) and stays at least 3 or 4 nights a week. It's fantastic... and I'm head over heels and not thinking logically. Anyway, S. has two children from her previous marriage (they were divorced only a few months before I started dating her) and she's only 22 when should have been a red flag for me. At the same time, her ex is all the time trying to call her on her phone which just royally ticks me off. I should have known something was up, but, again, I wasn't thinking correctly. When we are in the midst of this type of "experience" we usually don't.

About two months after we start dating I ask her to marry me. Yeah, stupid. I know this now but you have to understand I was spending almost every day with this girl and I was completely enticed with her. I really loved her and still do to this day (even after all she's put me through). All my friends were attempting to explain to me that I needed to get away from her and stay away from her, but I just wouldn't listen.

Ultimately, I find out (through different ways) that she has been spending the nights that she wasn't around me with her ex who knows nothing about me and sleeping with him. At the same time, while she was separated from her ex she was shacking/screwing this other guy on the side and met with him from time to time for that purpose. To say I was upset is an understatement.

We end up hanging out soon after this and I confront her with this information and I'm furious with her. It's pretty heated (non-physical of course as I don't believe in hitting women unless it's an extreme defensive posture to protect yourself with no other options). Well, apparently, she ends up calling up her dad while I'm in the other room who comes over to my apartment and he basically grabs a knife and sticks it against my throat while I'm against my kitchen counter -- meanwhile she's grabbing all her stuff and leaving. He keeps saying: "I should cut your throat for treating my daughter like this!" and what not (to which I should have responded: "And how should your daughter be treated for being a whore?"). My response to him, because I was beyond rage and scared at the same time -- anger and fear make a very strange and messed up combination -- and end up looking at him and basically say: "Do it" while I look right in his eyes. Well, apparently this was enough to frighten him a little and he backs off of me and goes into this whole spiel of "you stay away or blah blah blah...".

Anyway, that evening I'm an absolute mess of a person and I end up deciding it would be a good idea to down a fifth of Jack with a bottle of sleeping pills. It seems like a great idea at the time as I've just had my heart beyond broken and I'm just generally feeling devestated. Looking back on it, it's not that I INTENTIONALLY attempted to kill myself so much as it was a matter of I just wanted to sleep and sleep and forget about everything -- basically to escape -- do you understand what I mean?

I ended up being lucky and waking up in a complete hallucinatory haze the next morning and my neighbor (realizing I'm pretty damned messed up) calls an ambulance for me. I spend a week in the hospital and do a tremendous amount of soul searching -- finally deciding that I need to get out of town and away from everything/everyone I've ever known for awhile. Sometimes it's just good to get away from everything and have a new start.

This is when I moved to Atlanta where I lived for about a year. I honestly think that if I hadn't gotten away from her/here and some other bad people/mojo I was around I probably wouldn't be around right now. I was very messed up there for awhile (to say the least) to an extent that my bartender at my bar was telling me that I had to get out of town or she was afraid she was going to lose me and my business for good (as in me being dead).

So, I spend away from my home and I get my shit together. Not having to deal with her bi-polar manic depressive behavior was certainly a huge improvement for a change. It's basically a a sabbatical from life and family/friends and everything else that I took and it was extremely challenging (truly being away from everyone in an unknown city to me and away from all family/friends) and rewarding at the same time. learned a great deal about myself that year (2007) away from everything.

When I move back home (after about a year) she comes visit me at my work and (like a complete dumbass, but at least I'm not alone like those of you above me) I end up talking to her and she profusely apologizes for everything and says that she really missed me and wants to spend time with me. So, we decide to start hanging out again (which means lots of sex because we're both extremely physical people) and spending time with each other. Ultimately though, realizing that I can't put myself through what all I've done in the past and had to go through with her since then, I realized that I just had to break it off -- plus, I just didn't trust her and seriously doubt I ever will trust her again. She has since then (2008) gotten herself pregnant again and now has 3 kids at the age of around 24. To say that I'm happy to not have to be in THAT situation is an understatement.

In a way I guess you could say there is no other girl I have loved as much or hated as much in my entire life (does this make sense)? But the time with her has been a valuable learning experience to me.

Anyway, before I ramble on too much... after Stef I've pretty much been single except a girl I went out with for a few months back around Sept of 2008. I just haven't honestly been interested in dating or having a relationship. I guess at 29 and having been through so much of that I've just become content to spend my time to myself and not worry about any of the rest of it. No mind games / 'other peoples luggage/issues' for me. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have someone around, but usually this feeling passes pretty quickly when I think back on the majority of the time spent with Stef and the issues with the relationship.

j.p.

[paulannett]

I've been fairly lucky by the sounds of it, sure I've had a few let downs, but mostly I've been with great fun girls.

I think it's because I have my head screwed on and know that I don't need a woman in my life to make me happy, I enjoy FULLY being single and doing what I want, when I want to.

However, when I choose (have chosen) to make a girl a part of my life she's an addition to my happiness, not the be all and end all. This is where a lot you seem to go wrong, you get a girl, fall madly in love (in a short time), make her your world which is why you crash and burn so badly when she rips out your still beating heart like a stoned, hallucinating MMA fighter! :evil:

To me it sounds like a lot of you have issues prior to the relationships and when it all falls down (again and again) you don't know how to handle it and fall into the same self-harming routine (dating another pyscho!).

PS: You're all women haters!!!

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
I learned a lot from the disasters of an emotional nature I entangled myself in over the years. One of the most important lessons being: "It's a Sociopaths World, and we're just living in it."

For me though, I guess things were made pretty simple since. My health is so screwed, and my medical options so limited, that I have (realistically) a 0% chance that I will EVER improve enough to even be able to sit at the PC right here in my own home enough days in a row, for enough time each day to secure some sort of half-assed correspondance-based degree. LET ALONE go back to college, or get healthy enough to even leave the house to work an indoor desk-job.

When faced with such realities, you pretty much have to just find ways to convince yourself to keep enduring one more day, and talk yourself out of suicide 14-28x/week.

It's sad, but I consider it a major victory I've managed to talk myself into continuing to live/exist pointlessly, and am still marking time until some more natural means of death claims me of its own volition.

How sad is that? That my "victory" is marked by at its best, simply surviving to watch the clock go all the way round twice a day, 14x/week...useless to myself and all around me for all but the most trivial of tasks.

In hindsight, the period of my life where I was still healthy enough to even be GETTING THRASHED emotionally by these 2 psycho females is STILL the friggin high point.

Now that...THAT'S PATHETIC.

Count yourselves blessed Lords and Ladies. There are plenty of Hells right here in suburbia USA, and tens of thousands of us occupy them. Even forgetting for a moment the far larger Hells of the undeveloped nations.

If you've secured a life-situation that isn't unbearably painful in one way or another every moment of every day, then you've really ended up worlds better off than you might think.

Because at the end of it all, constant agony...be it physical, psychological or emotional, whose means of relief is impossible to achieve for the victim, can and will devour each and every single worthwhile element of such a "life."

To give you an idea: My mom loves me tremendously. We have and always have had a truly great mother/son relationship. She's been an excellent friend since I was at least 17-18 (am 30 now)...and she'd do anything for me.

Meaning nothing but good for me, she's often said that had she been able to see the future, she would have been kind enough not to get pregnant in her entire life, or to abort any pregnancies should she make the mistakes she actually did make when younger.

The sad part? It's one of the most loving, most considerate things anyone has ever said to me. I know that me and my brother are my Mom's LIFE, but she curses constantly that she's too "weak" to put me out of my misery...

::shakes head:: Don't know what Hell is until you've had to comfort your mother while she's hysterically beating herself up emotionally that she's cursed you to such a horrible life, and that she's too "selfish" to put my feelings first and show me the decency any moral person would a dog in my condition.

[JDFP]

Well,
I learned a lot from the disasters of an emotional nature I entangled myself in over the years. One of the most important lessons being: "It's a Sociopaths World, and we're just living in it."

For me though, I guess things were made pretty simple since. My health is so screwed, and my medical options so limited, that I have (realistically) a 0% chance that I will EVER improve enough to even be able to sit at the PC right here in my own home enough days in a row, for enough time each day to secure some sort of half-assed correspondance-based degree. LET ALONE go back to college, or get healthy enough to even leave the house to work an indoor desk-job.

When faced with such realities, you pretty much have to just find ways to convince yourself to keep enduring one more day, and talk yourself out of suicide 14-28x/week.

It's sad, but I consider it a major victory I've managed to talk myself into continuing to live/exist pointlessly, and am still marking time until some more natural means of death claims me of its own volition.

How sad is that? That my "victory" is marked by at its best, simply surviving to watch the clock go all the way round twice a day, 14x/week...useless to myself and all around me for all but the most trivial of tasks.

In hindsight, the period of my life where I was still healthy enough to even be GETTING THRASHED emotionally by these 2 psycho females is STILL the friggin high point.

Now that...THAT'S PATHETIC.

Count yourselves blessed Lords and Ladies. There are plenty of Hells right here in suburbia USA, and tens of thousands of us occupy them. Even forgetting for a moment the far larger Hells of the undeveloped nations.

If you've secured a life-situation that isn't unbearably painful in one way or another every moment of every day, then you've really ended up worlds better off than you might think.

Because at the end of it all, constant agony...be it physical, psychological or emotional, whose means of relief is impossible to achieve for the victim, can and will devour each and every single worthwhile element of such a "life."

To give you an idea: My mom loves me tremendously. We have and always have had a truly great mother/son relationship. She's been an excellent friend since I was at least 17-18 (am 30 now)...and she'd do anything for me.

Meaning nothing but good for me, she's often said that had she been able to see the future, she would have been kind enough not to get pregnant in her entire life, or to abort any pregnancies should she make the mistakes she actually did make when younger.

The sad part? It's one of the most loving, most considerate things anyone has ever said to me. I know that me and my brother are my Mom's LIFE, but she curses constantly that she's too "weak" to put me out of my misery...

::shakes head:: Don't know what Hell is until you've had to comfort your mother while she's hysterically beating herself up emotionally that she's cursed you to such a horrible life, and that she's too "selfish" to put my feelings first and show me the decency any moral person would a dog in my condition.

Hey Wyld, I just read your post and I couldn't help but respond just to let you know how much I and, no doubt, other people here appreciate having you around and how we all definitely appreciate having your intelligent, thoughtful, and in-depth feedback on all the different subjects we discuss here. You are valued here by me and by others and we would all lose by not having you here to contribute with us. I know it seems silly ultimately (Oh, I'm appreciated on a message forum), but its truly meant from me and you are appreciated. Take from that what you will.

I would never attempt to belittle you or any others that are in extreme physical/emotional distress by saying something like: "Oh, look on the bright side!". I had my "bad moment" in life a few years ago and unless you're there as a person no one else talking to you can get through to you or attempt to understand your situation. Since my "bad moment" my entire focus on life has completely changed. I just want you to know you're appreciated here and the forum is better for having your insight. Do know that you're not alone though as, thanks to the internet, there are always people/music/etc. a click of a mouse and a keyboard away. You can reach out and communicate with people at any time of day with the 'net, and that's a lot more than any people prior to our generation have had available to them.

j.p.

[Wyldwraith]

@JDFP:
Thank you my friend. Your words, and the obviously sincere sentiment behind them DO mean a great deal to me. It DOES matter, and to some extent cheers me that some here find the discussions the better for my having contributed (from time to time, I wouldn't be so arrogant as to presume everything I post is worthwhile/valuable).

You make an excellent point about the Internet, and touched on the truth of what gives me the energy (not hope, for that implies belief that circumstances may improve), but a sort of empowered resolve to continue for some time more.

I'm not so far gone that I can't appreciate honest concern and a desire to demonstrate empathy for my unenviable position, and so I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to reach out as you did. It matters, a lot.

Of late I've begun to believe that since hope is denied me, I would be wiser to turn to my faith, and marshal what energy/determination I have left to continue defending my inner self from the poisonous, insidious cynicism that accompanies the hopelessness. It seems to seek to contaminate even my ability to appreciate simple human contact, a good conversation, reading a good book, or any of the other few things still available to me that give me pleasure, enjoyment and some satisfaction.

Sometimes it feels like whatever attrition/entropy has seized hold of my physical self is a malignant semi-awareness all its own. One that won't be content until its stolen the positive intangible and/or abstract pleasures that remain, just as its stolen the physical pleasures.

I used to be a very touch-centric individual when it came to the woman I was at the time emotionally and physically intimate with. In some ways, I could appreciate something as basic (yet altogether profound, at least to me) as the pleasure of spooning with the woman I loved, that I held in my arms as she slept and I drifted near to sleep myself.

So of course one of the very first serious negative developments concerning my health were the near constant, sudden-but-intensely excruciating deep muscle spasms that would seize me every time I tried to lay on my sides in bed.

That's one of the more basic examples, but it gives form to the idea and pattern I'm relating, about how each of these physical pleasures were systematically stripped from my life.

Perhaps its a TMI sort of confession, but as a man who began his in-depth exploration of physical intimacy at the relatively very late age of 24, I felt it was only natural that, when combined with my tendency to deeply tie romantic emotion to physical passion (in a manner stereotypically more common to the Woman's *alleged* point of view), that I became an enthusiastic believer in expanding sex into extended foreplay, "selfless" giving of pleasure to my partner, and only then moving on to "the main event". Of course, like everyone else there were many times when mood and circumstance made other methods/ambiences the desired goal, but I mention the general outlook to explain/illuminate something.

Like every other male, I of course was very sensitive of any health issue which affected my virility, but on top of that more basic/primal discomfort, it damaged me emotionally in ways even I don't presume to imply I understand in any complete ways.

When my health problems/pain robbed me more and more often of "being in the mood", there were so many very painful consequences. Not nearly least of which was a devastating albeit mostly false belief that my physical impairments were responsible for why the women I'd loved ceased to respect, care for, and finally even no longer love me.

I mention all this because on top of the straightforward struggle to survive in any meaningful way despite my failing health and constantly increasing pain, I'm haunted by complicated hurts that I'm not even sure which portion of which are/were real or just some illusion of my own creation.

It's one thing to be besieged physically, and it's another again to be haunted over and by the emotional impacts to myself and others that my failings have hurt in the past, BOTH TOGETHER.

I pray most fervently that none here experience one, let alone both these curses.

[Russ7187]

Guess I should post mine. Not going to take the prize, but might as well share. I shall refer to this girl as The Bitch, cause a few chicks play into this.

It all started when I was 16 (I'm 24 now). Me and a girl I was friends with most of my life decided to start dating. We go to Kennywood for the school picnic, and have a great time that night. I end up meeting her friend, who is the bitch. At first I didn't really notice her, but her boyfriend at the time who was cool as fuck. Dude was just fun to talk to and be around, and was nuts. Wouldn't think twice of knocking throwing a trash can down the stairwell at school and shit like that. So we started hanging out wit them a lot, going over to the bitches house to watch movies and other activities.

Fast forward a few weeks. Me and the girl I'm with break up, mainly cause it was getting to awkward. Our parents grew up together and what not, and my mom and her parents kept butting their noses in. Only my dad was the cool one, who said we're teenagers and it would more than likely burn out. So this is 2003, and we are all starting to get cell phones and what not, and exchange numbers.

Now all the sudden the bitch is calling me, telling me this girl gave up a great guy in me and that I really know how to treat women. She kept wanting to hang out with me and bitch about her boyfriend. This is summer now, so she would call me cause her mom worked nights, and she was afraid at night. Now the girl I was dating and me are still cool, and she hooks me up with my ex, who was her best friend. The bitch calls my new gf and tells her how great I am and what not. The Ex (I'll call her that her from here on) is cool with it, but start to get creeped out.

After dating for a few years, me and the ex split.

Fast forward to 2006. The ex and me are still cool. But right after the break up she starts dating some other guy and they get REAL close REAL quick. I'm hurt. Well a buddy of mine gets back from boot camp and his parents throw a party, so when I go I end up seeing the bitch. We talked all night while everyone else was drinking and what not. She had just broken up with the guy she was with, and was kind of vague on why (this will play a role later). I figured it hurt her to talk about so leave it alone.

After the party I don't really think about her till a few days later. She calls and wants to hang out. So she comes out and shoots pool with me and my buddies. She got along with them ok, but not to great. Warning sign I should have taken.

Next week I go out with her friends, and wow things had changed. Most we're all wanna be models, party girls and what not. My ex is now starting to get real serious with the other guy, and I start to compare her to the bitch. Now the bitch is good looking, out of my league. Taller with long dark hair, paler skin which fits her nice, and nice eyes. So I start to feel better hanging out with her.

Out of the blue she disappears. No where to be found. Never answers her phone. Never online or anything. After two weeks I hear from her. Her and her friend took a trip down south for a bit. Ok cool, whatever. We pick right back up.

Things are even better. We go to Pens and Steeler games all the time. Hell strip clubs a few times. By this point we're both 21, so clubbing downtown, which shocks my friends and I am pretty much a huge metal head. But I start to branch out with her, doing different things all weekend.

Again she is gone, this time for about 8 months. And b gone I mean gone. One night we were out and the next never heard from her again. We even had plans to hang out the next weekend. This time I'm upset. I start drinking bad, and even try to use a few other substances to help me. My friends and cousins start getting pissed and want to find her to find out why she did this.

Then she resurfaces. Says she was working a lot. Not thinking right I buy into it. Things go good for a few weeks, going out to plays, museums and the zoo, things I never did with my ex. Finally I ask her out.

Mistake.

She FREAKS. She ask me what the hell made me thing she would EVER wanna be with a guy like me? I listen to devil music (Heavy Metal, but I listen to everything. Got hip hop on now). I am into child stuff like zombies (duh), Star Wars and play video games. That at 22 I should be into adult stuff, and she only goes for mature guys.

But she doesn't stop at that.

See she left the cool boyfriend for another guy, about 13 years older than us. And that's why she was gone for long period of times. His parents have money and spending it to take her around the country. She says she needs mature guys. Guys in their 30's. And that she was leaving the next day to go away with him, and that he was looking to beat my ass.

Wrong move to say the last part. My cousins are pretty much feared in our area. They are known for beating the fuck out of anyone who messes with them, and our aunts and uncles are really into protecting family. They we're ready to go find him. But it was put down in time by one of her other friends.

6 months go by. She calls me one day to say she is so sorry, and never meant of it. She just didn't want to hurt me, and thought by making me mad it would hurt less. She ask if we can go out to dinner, and me being stupid, say I will. Things go good and I even go party with her and her boyfriend, who was a nice guy but you could tell why he was with a younger girl. We start to grow apart when suddenly, she asked me to go out and get fucked up with her one night.

Now here comes the end. While out we are both pretty much trashed and she is dancing all over me, and her friend even gives me a condom giggling how I will need it. But when we get into the car she BRUST into tears. Her boyfriend keeps leaving her and moved to the other side of the country. She tells me how she doesn't want anyone but him. Finally something in my snapped. The sight of her throwing up, hyperventilating and having panic attack just annoyed me. She came to me, the guy she kept hurting, about her boyfriend who hurt her.

When I dropped her off, she looked for a hug and I just kind of brushed her off. She text me the next day to tell me she was ok, but I told her I was busy going out for my buddies birthday. I still hear from her from time to time. Even saw her at the bar the other day. I'll say hi but that's about it. But being 24, you never know what will happen.

[Wyldwraith]

@Russ:

Even I know this problem man. You ended up designated a V.E.T by "The Bitch".
V.E.T = Vulnerable Emotional Target, aka a Shoulder to Cry On.

Guys who find themselves as V.E.Ts inevitably get stung over and over by the psycho antics of the gameplaying female they've gotten mixed with, but never to the point (initially) that they find cause to draw the line and sever contact with her.

The core archetype of a V.E.T-guy is that he invariably ends up serving as a surrogate for the guy the gameplayer-female actually wants but can't get, but she does a credible job for some time to conceal this fact from the V.E.T.

Girls like this use hope and your being attracted to them as the "hooks" to keep you around and under control. Desiring to become romantically involved with them, you end up unknowingly being the gameplayer's "In Case of Boredom and/or Lack of Other Options, Break Glass"-type guy.

As you discovered, this sort of manipulative self-centered she-devil can easily be identified by taking some sort of action to make an actual play for her. Having ceased to be the safe, easily manipulated comfort-toy by (::gasp::) expressing the fact that you have emotional needs of your own, this sort of gameplayer generally realizes she jig is up in short order and moves on to perpetuate the cycle using a new V.E.T-victim.

If you'd be interested, I actually wrote up a Field Guide-style document which details the common subspecies of Females Destructive to Men. It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it does contain my own experiences and those of other male friends who became interested in the project and contributed.

Wrote it up like each type of Destructive Female was a species of predator, and a few teenage guys (younger brothers, cousins etc.) have sung our praises when we gave a copy of the Field Guide to them, and it turned out to be extremely useful in helping them extricate themselves from nasty situations with evil members of the Unfair Sex.

Hmm, come to think of it I should really clean it up and turn it into a .pdf

Edit: For what it's worth. I turned it in as my Midterm Project in Sociology, and despite having a neurotic but attractive cougar of a professor, she actually gave me an A- (a 90) on it. Back in my college days.

[rongravy]

I'm personally proud today to tell everyone I've a week under my belt of not stalking my ex or planning her death or anyone's she knows and cares about.
I still wish it, I just don't plan it.
That's progress, isn't it?

[JDFP]

If you'd be interested, I actually wrote up a Field Guide-style document which details the common subspecies of Females Destructive to Men. It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it does contain my own experiences and those of other male friends who became interested in the project and contributed.


Wyld: I am interested -- please e-mail it to me as I'd love to read.

Okay, boys and boys -- it looks like it's time to put some "Ladder Theory" into play here. For those of you unfamiliar with the Ladder Theory it's probably some of the most psychologically/sociologically accurate interpretation on men and women and the differences between us when it comes to relationships.

It's utterly brilliant. Here's a link:

http://www.laddertheory.com/

In summation, the Ladder Theory basically states this:

Men's Interest in a Woman are comprised of this:

60% Looks
30% Estimated Chance She'll Put Out Quickly
10% Other

Women's Interest in a Man are comprised of this:

50% Money/Power
40% Attraction
10% Things Women Say They Care About But Really Don't (this includes intelligence, sense of humor, honesty, sensitivity etc.)

Basically you take these core principles and Men and Women place these individuals onto a ladder -- men have one ladder and women have two ladder's. The woman has two ladders because there is the "Real" Ladder and the "Friends" Ladder -- an example of a V.E.T. that Wyld discusses would be an individual on the Friend's Ladder, i.e. the ladder of people a girl considers a friend but would never have any real interest in having a relationship with. You can tell you're on this ladder from "Kiss of Death" phrases such as this:

1. You're like my brother I never had, or "You're like my brother." -- the Ultimate Kiss of Death.
2. You're a really good friend.
3. I really appreciate having you around.
4. I wouldn't want to harm our friendship by becoming intimate with you.
5. When I'm around you I can really be myself.

-- and similar such things. If you hear any phrases like this, you should pretty much be aware that you're never going to get into the girl's pants (minus copious amounts of alcohol) and it's basically a dead end road full of pain and misery unless all you really want is to be a "good friend" -- which 99.9% of the time you don't because you're a guy.

Anyway, you all should check it out, it's amazing and highly honest stuff.

j.p.

[kortick]

I was stabbed by an ex girl with one of those big
meat forks, u know the ones with the 2 prongs?

then later she was telling her friends how much she loved
that fork and wanted me to pay to have it bronzed like
u do with ur kids first baby shoes.

then there was the time a girl pinned me up against the house
with her truck and wanted to crush me to death.

yeah all in all dating is a great thing.

[Wyldwraith]

Will try to clean up and post some excerpts from the Field Guide here. It ended up in Research Paper format, which isn't the most useful/informative format.

Think the Ladder Theory is brilliant, and I agree with its conclusions completely and unreservedly.

Gotta rest, back later.

[Russ7187]

Wyld I would definitely be interested in checking that out. If can send it through a PM that'd be easier, if not, I can give you my e-mail address.

And your %110 right that I was her VET as you call it. And she has actually found another one recently. I didn't add it to my story because it really doesn't protean to me so I didn't even think to add it. It's just some guy I actually knew years ago who takes her out and buys her things and pays for her way everywhere(Never did I get to that point. I can proudly say that). More power to him, whatever lol.

The ladder theory is utter brilliance.

[Wyldwraith]

@Russ:

I've gotta reformat the Guide so it'll make sense/be comprehensible when posted on here. I used to have the Guide-version, but all I could find was the finished Research Paper from my Intro to Sociology class. As any of you who've done the college dance know, the stupid formats they require for papers are arcane to the point of being asinine.

What you said about this woman having found a new Playtoy is completely consistent with her type. I won't be surprised if she continues this cycle of behavior until her looks start to wilt with age, then my bet would be she'd have a bit of cosmetic surgery, MAYBE go on an exercise regimen for some short-term positive gains in her figure, and then target a financially comfortable single or widowed father whose kids are only a couple years from going off to college, and then get her hooks into this newest target by "accidentally" getting knocked up to "seal the deal."

It's a sad, disgusting fact, but at least 70-75% of women are among the classic examples of the worst aspects depicted by Ladder Theory.

It always amazes me how the majority of men being considered shallow, unintelligent, poorly groomed and interested in nothing but casual, emotionless sex is deemed "normal" by women, and that we men have no right to be angry or offended when this kind of thoughtless remark is made to our faces, but when a men comments on how women are generally looking to be involved with upper class/wealthy men, and to marry a man with money...or how they "keep a guy on the back burner" (a guy they know wants to be with them, but that they have no real interest in except as someone who can do/buy for her, or be there in a pinch if she's lonely and has no better option available), women go BALLISTIC on us.

I always tell women that if you want to object to being the target of generalities then you need to be willing to abandon USING generalities.

Speaking just for myself, I'm tired of living in a society where it's completely ok for women to consider us men all shallow dawgs out for nothing but a booty call, and DAMNED TIRED that they can have the gall to get furious when we tag them back with the applicable generalities that describe the scum of their gender.

[Russ7187]

@Russ:

I've gotta reformat the Guide so it'll make sense/be comprehensible when posted on here. I used to have the Guide-version, but all I could find was the finished Research Paper from my Intro to Sociology class. As any of you who've done the college dance know, the stupid formats they require for papers are arcane to the point of being asinine.

What you said about this woman having found a new Playtoy is completely consistent with her type. I won't be surprised if she continues this cycle of behavior until her looks start to wilt with age, then my bet would be she'd have a bit of cosmetic surgery, MAYBE go on an exercise regimen for some short-term positive gains in her figure, and then target a financially comfortable single or widowed father whose kids are only a couple years from going off to college, and then get her hooks into this newest target by "accidentally" getting knocked up to "seal the deal."

It's a sad, disgusting fact, but at least 70-75% of women are among the classic examples of the worst aspects depicted by Ladder Theory.

It always amazes me how the majority of men being considered shallow, unintelligent, poorly groomed and interested in nothing but casual, emotionless sex is deemed "normal" by women, and that we men have no right to be angry or offended when this kind of thoughtless remark is made to our faces, but when a men comments on how women are generally looking to be involved with upper class/wealthy men, and to marry a man with money...or how they "keep a guy on the back burner" (a guy they know wants to be with them, but that they have no real interest in except as someone who can do/buy for her, or be there in a pinch if she's lonely and has no better option available), women go BALLISTIC on us.

I always tell women that if you want to object to being the target of generalities then you need to be willing to abandon USING generalities.

Speaking just for myself, I'm tired of living in a society where it's completely ok for women to consider us men all shallow dawgs out for nothing but a booty call, and DAMNED TIRED that they can have the gall to get furious when we tag them back with the applicable generalities that describe the scum of their gender.

Everything you said there is to a T about her. Right now with her new lacky there is a huge story involving my best friend and his girl friend. I actually just got a text about it a few minutes ago, but I try to stay out of it.

Hard thing is, and I will admit this, I feel somewhat jealous that my best friend and this other guy still have contact with her, and I don't. Sometimes I have my days where I just wanna break down, find her on facebook and just write down that I miss her (corny I know). But usually having a good night out with my buddies will keep me from going over the edge. Hell my friends and family are the only things to lean on. And I'm sure everyone else can say the same.

[JDFP]

Hard thing is, and I will admit this, I feel somewhat jealous that my best friend and this other guy still have contact with her, and I don't. Sometimes I have my days where I just wanna break down, find her on facebook and just write down that I miss her (corny I know). But usually having a good night out with my buddies will keep me from going over the edge. Hell my friends and family are the only things to lean on. And I'm sure everyone else can say the same.

Hang in there, my friend. I certainly understand and know where you're coming from as a person.

I think a major issue with society is that from infancy we are brought up with the notion that men and women are "supposed" to get married and have children. As if being a single person after a certain age is a black mark against you for some reason. You're not truly a "full member of society" unless you're married with 2.3 children and a dog named Fluffy. It's ingrained in society for some reason and it's really sickening actually.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being single -- in fact, I'd go so far as to say that being single has far superior advantages than being in a committed relationship or being married. For one, your time is your own. You do not have to "negotiate" how you are going to spend your day or who/how you will spend your day. As others have mentioned here, many of us have lost good friends who have gone into a committed relationship/become married never to hear from them again as if they disappeared off the face of the earth. Second, the entire issues of finances. My money I make is my money I make. Period. As long as I'm paying my bills (rent/home payments/car payments/utilities/etc.) I shouldn't have to explain myself if I went to spend a thousand dollars on a new big screen.

Wyld is right on the money when it comes to the issue of it's perfectly fine for women to dog how a great number of men (I won't say majority) act and yet it's just not acceptable for men to comment on women (I won't say majority) acting in a certain way. If a man cheats on his girlfriend/wife then he should be called out for it and his actions. Likewise, I feel no remorse in calling a woman who acts like a whore exactly that: a whore. People are their actions, regardless of being male or female.

Most men and women are pure scum. That's all there is to it. People like to use and abuse you for their own purposes and then be done with you and move onto something else. Personally, I think it's easier and far less difficult in dealing with my own issues/problems then attempting to deal with my problems and the problems of another person. Personally, I just don't need that crap any longer. I've been there and gone through it a few times in previous relationships and I don't see a purpose for it.

If you think about it, as far as sex goes, prostitution (whether male or female) is one of the most honest professions out there. You spend $100 plus (depending on the quality of the 'product') and you know exactly what you're going to get for the purchase. If you go on a date with someone, you could spend the same $100 with no guarantees on a return on the investment. At least prostitution is honest. :)

j.p.

[Russ7187]

Hang in there, my friend. I certainly understand and know where you're coming from as a person.

Thanks dude. Trying to as hard as I can. Just trying to keep myself occupied as much as possible anymore.


I think a major issue with society is that from infancy we are brought up with the notion that men and women are "supposed" to get married and have children. As if being a single person after a certain age is a black mark against you for some reason. You're not truly a "full member of society" unless you're married with 2.3 children and a dog named Fluffy. It's ingrained in society for some reason and it's really sickening actually.

110% true. One of my best friends is 35 not married and has no kids. Many people I know think of him as this big loser who is pathetic as hell. Then they meet him, see how money he makes, all the hobbies he has and all the places he can travel to and still in shock that he can be happy at that age being single. Yet they are so unhappy with their own lives with a spouse and kid. But they are told they have to be that way.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with being single -- in fact, I'd go so far as to say that being single has far superior advantages than being in a committed relationship or being married. For one, your time is your own. You do not have to "negotiate" how you are going to spend your day or who/how you will spend your day. As others have mentioned here, many of us have lost good friends who have gone into a committed relationship/become married never to hear from them again as if they disappeared off the face of the earth. Second, the entire issues of finances. My money I make is my money I make. Period. As long as I'm paying my bills (rent/home payments/car payments/utilities/etc.) I shouldn't have to explain myself if I went to spend a thousand dollars on a new big screen.

Other than the bitch I just talked about, I see no reason at 24 to be committed. I can come and go as I please. I make 60 grand a year, and only going up. Next summer I will be in the process of buying my own house. My credit is prefect, too. And not to mention I can reel in some nice chicks. None of just hooked me like the one.


If you think about it, as far as sex goes, prostitution (whether male or female) is one of the most honest professions out there. You spend $100 plus (depending on the quality of the 'product') and you know exactly what you're going to get for the purchase. If you go on a date with someone, you could spend the same $100 with no guarantees on a return on the investment. At least prostitution is honest. :)


Never tell that to a women hahaha.

[Wyldwraith]

An observation,
Honestly, the longer you go consistently without sex, the easier it is to dismiss it as unimportant. Right after my marriage broke up it was a jarring empty feeling to be alone and no longer intimate with someone.

18 months later the feeling was no more than a minor irritation, and 18 months after that it was strange and nothing more when something would make me consider sex after 3-4 months of it not crossing my mind.

Not completely of course, we guys all have...erm, needs. But you get the idea.

When I think of all the emotional scarring and tremendous damage done by the women I trusted with an inroad to my heart, these days I'm simply disgusted I could've been so foolish.

Of course I freely admit I'm biased by the knowledge my life is basically over and I'm just marking time until biology catches up with the rest of reality, but the principle is sound for all guys...