The Tillman Story

[ProfessorChaos]

upcoming documentary about Pat Tillman and his death:

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i'm interested seeing this, as i feel that the propaganda machine needs to be exposed when it does improper shit and manipulates facts to aid its cause.

at the same time, however, i hope that the filmmakers keep tillman and the values he believed in (and eventually died for, regardless of how erroneous and anti-climatic his death was) in mind and don't just make this a michael moore style "fuck the USA and W" film.

[bassman]

This is the first i've heard of him. I'm guessing from the trailer that his death had some un-answered questions and because he was a celebrity they made a big deal about it to the government?

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, he made pretty big headlines when he enlisted after the 9/11 attacks and gave up pro-football to serve. made it in the army rangers, served in same unit as his brother.

one evening in afghanistan their patrol was ambushed and there was some confusion when tillman and another ranger were taking cover behind some rocks while searching for insurgents in the area.

he received a fatal headshot from another soldier in a friendly-fire incident. a cover-up led to reporting that he died heroically in battle, which he did, but the details were muddled and made to sound like he died by enemy fire rather than a horribly fucked-up incident.

the lid was blown off the deal by his family and fellow soldiers to keep high-ranking military officials from exploiting his death to stir up patriotism in order to get more people behind the war effort.

[acealive1]

the army should be de commisioned for what they did to him.

[rongravy]

This is the first i've heard of him. I'm guessing from the trailer that his death had some un-answered questions and because he was a celebrity they made a big deal about it to the government?
really? tell me what cave you live in so i can join you...
fucking tragic, hell yesh, but he still died a hero.

the only crime i see heeyah is trying to make it look like a guy that died in a seriously tragic way instead a hero to rally around. a lie, true...
but isn't history askewed to the viewpoint of the victors i'm not trying to say my word is final, but damn. sometimes the needs of the many outwiegh the needs of the few... or da uno.
i haven't ever been to war, but neither have any of you, unless i'm mistaken. alot of good things came out of this war, including the Pakistani scientist's hope for a muslim bomb. sad, really sad. i grew up having nightmares of Nuclear winter...
none of us know the real story, the internet is a plethora of info, yet what do we believe?
i still believe in us, is that so wrong?
imagine aworld where muslims rule supreme. then imagine how history will once more, and wayyyy worse, will be askewed?
i only offer my piece of thought...
i still think we went right where things went wrong.

[ProfessorChaos]

i haven't ever been to war, but neither have any of you, unless i'm mistaken.

...you're mistaken.:)

[rongravy]

...you're mistaken.:)
im sorry amigo. more than my fucking hat is off to you.
lots of love to you.

[Eyebiter]

Isn't the first time the "truth" has been changed to support the war effort, won't be the last. Recall all the BS put around Jessica Lynch when she was captured during the early days of the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

[bassman]

really? tell me what cave you live in so i can join you...
fucking tragic, hell yesh, but he still died a hero.


I live in the same neighborhood cave as the GA/SC blonde, six-fingered sasquatch.


Seriously though...I guess I missed this on the news when it happened. I applaud and thank the man for his service, but you know this is only an issue because of his former NFL status. I would bet this happens all the time but it doesn't stir up a ruckus because they aren't "famous".

[acealive1]

I live in the same neighborhood cave as the GA/SC blonde, six-fingered sasquatch.


Seriously though...I guess I missed this on the news when it happened. I applaud and thank the man for his service, but you know this is only an issue because of his former NFL status. I would bet this happens all the time but it doesn't stir up a ruckus because they aren't "famous".



they blew his head off with a light machine gun,burned his clothes and his belongings including his journal which pretty much would call for a court martial. it's called fragging, look it up.

[darth los]

It's funny that McChrystal just got canned and that's the guy who was behind the cover up.

That's neither here nor there though. The man was a hero, he didn't choose the way he died but he chose the way he lived. And in the end that's all you can do.

:cool:

[bassman]

they blew his head off with a light machine gun,burned his clothes and his belongings including his journal which pretty much would call for a court martial. it's called fragging, look it up.

uh.... yes. I understand what happened. My point was that similar events probably happen all the time during that nasty thing called war. This one is just known because he played football. Not trying to talk bad about the guy at all - just the way the media handles things.

[acealive1]

uh.... yes. I understand what happened. My point was that similar events probably happen all the time during that nasty thing called war. This one is just known because he played football. Not trying to talk bad about the guy at all - just the way the media handles things.




yea i know that, but its not a coincidence that they have high profile people joining up when all time enlistment is down for like the 10th year in a row. they tried to do a nice lil PR stunt like when elvis was in the army.....only thing is elvis wasnt an army ranger with balls. seriously, tillman by all accounts was not someone you'd try to "tell what to do". he hated the ranking thing cuz there were people above him that didnt earn it.




there wasnt a snowballs chance in hell he woulda got killed in combat, just too damn good.

[ProfessorChaos]

alright, man, i gotta call ya out on that ace. while i'm not ruling out fratricide in the case of cpl tillman, i find it highly unlikely.

most military units (particularly special forces such as navy seals, recon marines, and army rangers) are very cohesive and team-oriented. through training and shared hardships, bonds are formed which make fighting men care for each other as brothers. to think that another ranger(s) would intentionally kill one of the most high-profile enlisted men is preposterous.

from what i've heard/read, it was nearly dark by that point in the evening and there was almost 1,000 meters between tillman and another ranger behind a rock and the machine-gunner who supposedly shot him. there's conflicting reports about the impact and trajectory of the 3 rounds that hit him in the head, speculation of an m16 being fired instead of an m249 (both use 5.56mm ammo), etc . with the exception of the few guys there (who were likely close friends with tillman), nobody knows for sure.

but i can't see guys in his unit disliking him that much that they MURDERED him. perhaps someone shot him with an m16 to put him out of his misery after the machine gun took off most of his face if he'd been still breathing, but fratricide seems very doubtful to me based on my experiences in the military. i mean, you'd have to have a lot of guys who really, really hated a guy, enough to flat-out kill the dude and i just don't see that happening in this case.

also, the principle of being fit, a good soldier, born leader, or whatever qualities made tillman "too damn good" has nothing to do with surviving combat operations. it's the luck of the draw. just cuz someone played pro football doesn't mean they can dodge bullets or that they're impervious to roadside bombs...

[acealive1]

you call me on this knowing that fuckin monkey was in office for 8 years started this "war"??

[bassman]

you call me on this knowing that fuckin monkey was in office for 8 years started this "war"??

....how is that even relevant to what prof said?:confused:

[ProfessorChaos]

ace, chill the fuck out...what are you smoking dude?

how does george bush have anything to do with whether or not pat tillman was intentionally killed by his fellow rangers?

when did i even mention "that monkey"?

[acealive1]

ace, chill the fuck out...what are you smoking dude?

how does george bush have anything to do with whether or not pat tillman was intentionally killed by his fellow rangers?

when did i even mention "that monkey"?


this is the shit im talking about. two people are having a conversation, one loses. another jumps in and berates someone. jesus man, now i know what cap meant




where was tillman? killed? ok theres the answer as to what is has to do with this situation

[ProfessorChaos]

seems to me like i was informing bassman of the details, so that would be the part about two people having a conversation. nobody is the loser, don't know where you're getting that from.

then you jump in spouting shit strongly suggesting that tillman was murdered by his fellow soldiers and then somehow end up with george bush being behind the whole thing.

i think you're (incorrectly) assuming tillman died in iraq. he died in afghanistan, and given the fact that bin laden and the taliban claimed responsibility for the attacks of 9/11, even if gore had won the election there's still a strong chance we'd have gone to war to go after them.

[bassman]

this is the shit im talking about. two people are having a conversation, one loses. another jumps in and berates someone. jesus man, now i know what cap meant


Dude - chill out. Nobody is berating you. We're just talking about the thread at hand. And there's no such thing as "losing" a conversation. We're just having a discussion...

[JDFP]

you call me on this knowing that fuckin monkey was in office for 8 years started this "war"??

As opposed to the idiot in office now who's mucking up the country alot worse than Bush ever did? Double Standard # 6122: It's perfectly okay to call Bush a 'monkey' and other derogatory language but to say the same about Obama is "RACIST!!!".

And Bush being president had nothing to do with this issue. The soldier was accidentally killed by friendly-fire and it's a terrible tragedy. He was protecting his country from terrorism from fundamentalist zealots and whack-jobs that would like nothing more than to destroy our country. Like the death of all of our servicemen/women this is a terrible tragedy but especially so under the circumstances (which I think would have captured attention because of the circumstances even if he hadn't been a popular football player).

j.p.

[darth los]

ace, chill the fuck out...what are you smoking dude?

Obviously nothing.

Anyone high on weed would be all peace and love.

Or maybe the paranoia is dominating. :shifty:

Anyway, how about that draft last night ace!?! :D

:cool:

[SymphonicX]

sometimes the needs of the many outwiegh the needs of the few... or da uno..

Whilst on the outside I agree with your sentiment when you apply this to fact or fiction the lines are very blurry - unfortunately lying to protect public opinion only leads the world down a dark path - best to be honest and let people decide for themselves....

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------


...you're mistaken.:)

I dread to think of the horrors you've seen mate.

One thing ocurred to me the other day is that people in high pressure public services like police, doctors, soldiers, etc etc...they seem to only really deal with either the absolute scum of the earth, or good people on the worst day of their lives. That's gotta have an effect.