UK folks... How long till the public forget the rediculous debt Labour has got us in?

[Neil]

So labour have basically spent spent and spent, and put us hugely in dept...

How long till the public forget about his? The next election? The one after that maybe?

[SymphonicX]

*debt

:)

Probably not even that long mate - even now I'm actively trying to forget about it - after all, what use is there in constantly worrying about it? ultimately there's nothing the average tax payer can do about it, other than sit there, worrying, about the mess others have caused...

[Neil]

*debt

:)

Probably not even that long mate - even now I'm actively trying to forget about it - after all, what use is there in constantly worrying about it? ultimately there's nothing the average tax payer can do about it, other than sit there, worrying, about the mess others have caused...

Just our interest payments are like £50,000,000,000 a year!!!!!

[SymphonicX]

so that's BILLIONS yeah? Too many zeros to count - the thing is, it's an impossible amount of money, it almost has gotten to the point where the national "debt" seems so massive that it's impossible to tackle at all.

Who's getting this money from the interest? this makes no sense - who has loaned us money? I thought we printed it (quantitititative easing as Charlie Brooker would say) - I can understand the deficit, and forgive my lack of financial knowledge when it comes to economics, but I thought we just tunnelled ourselves into a hole that we have to fix? Who lent us all this money? The whole thing is way too complex and just like the stock market, it's almost completely untouchable, it's not meant to be understood in my book -
and what happens if we don't pay? Chinese debt collection agencies knocking on our doors (only country I can think of that we may be paying interest to)? lol..it's insane...

I reckon one of these days we'll all have a worldwide economic reset - it'll all be wiped clean and we'll all have to start again....lol

[Ghost Of War]

I'll probably forget about it when I start feeling the ill effects of the major budget cuts that the present Government have deemed neccessary. Then I'll have something new to worry about.

[Neil]

Who's getting this money from the interest? this makes no sense - who has loaned us money?
Well, if you consider the US, China holds trillions of their debt!

[Danny]

I'll forget when i abandon the sinking ship and move to canada.:lol:

[SymphonicX]

Canada pissed all over their deficit in the 90s - made it into mincemeat...pissy mincemeat...

unfortunately the lack of a decent export market means we won't be doing the same thing and we're not nearly as up for it anyway....

[Neil]

I'll forget when i abandon the sinking ship and move to canada.:lol:

Where abouts you headed?

[Tricky]

Its already started, there are countless posts on news stories from people saying "same old tories" and all that guff about things relating to labours time in power that the Tories had nothing to do with! :rolleyes:
Personally I'm quite happy with what they're doing so far, theres a few things I wish they'd deal with that they seem reluctant on like our ridiculous EU & foreign aid contributions, but other than that im quite impressed that they are tackling non jobs, public sector waste & red tape, stopping funding for new speed cameras, and actually setting a time for quitting that big balls up in Afghanistan.
The cuts are getting the unions in a twist again though & they are a noisy bunch, while everyone agrees that there needs to be cuts, they all get uppity about it if the cuts affect them and their department, so we will be seeing strikes & protests all over the shop, but its got to be done!

[SymphonicX]

Its already started, there are countless posts on news stories from people saying "same old tories" and all that guff about things relating to labours time in power that the Tories had nothing to do with! :rolleyes:
Personally I'm quite happy with what they're doing so far, theres a few things I wish they'd deal with that they seem reluctant on like our ridiculous EU & foreign aid contributions, but other than that im quite impressed that they are tackling non jobs, public sector waste & red tape, stopping funding for new speed cameras, and actually setting a time for quitting that big balls up in Afghanistan.
The cuts are getting the unions in a twist again though & they are a noisy bunch, while everyone agrees that there needs to be cuts, they all get uppity about it if the cuts affect them and their department, so we will be seeing strikes & protests all over the shop, but its got to be done!


Unfortunately though the reality is most government departments are facing cuts of 40% not 25% like previously stated - that's a lot of workers to get the boot man...I mean, a LOT of money needs to be saved and that's going to cost the country some massive amounts of jobs, and it just isn't going to be picked up by the private sector unless there's a clear profit to be had...ahh the whole thing is scary - if we lose 600,000 public jobs like the government is conservatively estimating - that's nearly a million!

[Mr.G]

Speaking as an American whose country has similar issues...budgets have to be cut. There isn't another way to fix it. We had a balanced budget not so long ago...it can happen again. I don't like the idea of China owning our asses.

[Tricky]

I just cant believe that Labour thought that spending our way out was going to work, if they had stayed in power at this election things may have been easier in the short term, but the UK would have imploded in debt in the next few years and we would have been in a world of pain then! The tories & the dems will be going into this knowing that what they are doing will probably cost them the next election, but it seems to me they are willing to take the chance to try & sort Britains debt out and they have to be commended for that. Sure theres some bad eggs in both parties, but on the whole I think for the time being we are getting some transparent & decent government which is a breath of fresh air after the spin and lies of the labour/mandelson years.
They declared war on non jobs today which has been a long time coming

'Healthy Workplace Advisor' position at Northamptonshire County Council (£22,221 - £23,708 pa) to a vacancy for a 'Trampoline Coach' at Medway Council (£14,143 - £15,917 pro rata), there are a plethora of non-jobs still alive-and-kicking in the very local authorities threatening that savage cuts could/will compromise frontline services

Cycling City Project Officer x2
£21,519 - £23,708

This is a temporary post until March 2011, but with a possibility of extension should the project be successful.
JOB DESCRIPTION
This is an exciting opportunity for up to two people with a strong interest in cycling to work in the Cycle Stoke team at Stoke-on-Trent. The Posts holders main responsibilities are to deliver individual projects and activities within the Stoke Cycling City project in line with the agreed Cycling Strategy.



I mean for fucks sake, im slogging my guts out in the private sector for 16.5K a year, but my taxes are being milked so muppets can do pointless jobs like that on salaries im trying to claw my way to, i say sack the bleeding lot of 'em! :rant:

[Legion2213]

So labour have basically spent spent and spent, and put us hugely in dept...

How long till the public forget about his? The next election? The one after that maybe?

A lot of liebour voters can't even acknowledge the debt...let alone forget it.

As usual, the Tories (the nasty party tm :rolleyes: ) have to come and sort out the financial disaster left by a previous liebour goverment.

[Chic Freak]

Probably not even that long mate - even now I'm actively trying to forget about it - after all, what use is there in constantly worrying about it? ultimately there's nothing the average tax payer can do about it, other than sit there, worrying, about the mess others have caused...

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic? If not, the answer is that one can choose not to vote Labour!


I'll probably forget about it when I start feeling the ill effects of the major budget cuts that the present Government have deemed neccessary. Then I'll have something new to worry about.

Urg, tell me about it. Thousands of people losing their jobs + reducing unemployment and child benefits + increasing VAT to 20% (after they *promised* a month earlier that they wouldn't!) + reducing police force = :eek:

Why can't they increase the NI contributions large companies make instead of decrease them? Surely that would be a fairer way of collecting cash to pay off some of the debt than trying to take it from individuals on the bottom rungs of society who didn't have much to start with? :dead:

[Tricky]

Surely that would be a fairer way of collecting cash to pay off some of the debt than trying to take it from individuals on the bottom rungs of society who didn't have much to start with? :dead:

Actually because I earn under 20k my tax isnt going to increase (other than the VAT hike of course) so they arent really taking from the bottom rungs of society in that sense. And fair enough I dont have kids so maybe I dont understand it fully, but I dont think its unreasonable to reduce child benefits, maybe it will stop people on sink estates pumping out kids to claim the benefits for them? Having kids is a lifestyle choice in these heavily populated times we live in, so people shouldnt keep having them if they cant afford them and expecting the state to pick up the tab. I for one am sick of turning out to work for 48 weeks of the year for precious little money, only to see families who dont work living well with foreign holidays every year, flat screen TV's & Xbox's, as well as a 40 a day habit, a shit load of expensive tattoo's & an alcohol problem, I see it all the time in Hull where I work which has one of the highest rates of teen mothers in the country.
Surely its not a bad thing if the thousands of jobs lost are all those non jobs like the examples I posted above? you could get rid of all of them & the public wouldnt notice a difference in front line services. If the people occupying those jobs are worth the ridiculous salaries they get, then surely they will have no difficulty landing a job elsewhere? just my two penneth & probably spoken like a true tory, but I dont agree with socialism & society being reliant on the state the way it has been in labours 13 years of power, socialism is all very well till they run out of other peoples money, which is what happened here

[Mr.G]

...socialism is all very well till they run out of other peoples money, which is what happened here

Well said. I'm afraid we are beginning to feel this in the states.

[Sammich]

It is ok. Everything will be solved by implementing austerity measures.

Privatizing corporate profits while socializing corporate losses is the way of the future. It doesn't hurt if your country can print it's own currency with reckless abandon either.

[Mr.G]

It doesn't hurt if your country can print it's own currency with reckless abandon either.

Until the day that currency is worthless from oversaturation and inflation.

[Ghost Of War]

Actually because I earn under 20k my tax isnt going to increase (other than the VAT hike of course) so they arent really taking from the bottom rungs of society in that sense. And fair enough I dont have kids so maybe I dont understand it fully, but I dont think its unreasonable to reduce child benefits, maybe it will stop people on sink estates pumping out kids to claim the benefits for them? Having kids is a lifestyle choice in these heavily populated times we live in, so people shouldnt keep having them if they cant afford them and expecting the state to pick up the tab. I for one am sick of turning out to work for 48 weeks of the year for precious little money, only to see families who dont work living well with foreign holidays every year, flat screen TV's & Xbox's, as well as a 40 a day habit, a shit load of expensive tattoo's & an alcohol problem, I see it all the time in Hull where I work which has one of the highest rates of teen mothers in the country.
Surely its not a bad thing if the thousands of jobs lost are all those non jobs like the examples I posted above? you could get rid of all of them & the public wouldnt notice a difference in front line services. If the people occupying those jobs are worth the ridiculous salaries they get, then surely they will have no difficulty landing a job elsewhere? just my two penneth & probably spoken like a true tory, but I dont agree with socialism & society being reliant on the state the way it has been in labours 13 years of power, socialism is all very well till they run out of other peoples money, which is what happened here

Totally agree with a lot of what you've said there about sponging families, but as for Child Benefit (or family allowance, whatever people call it), EVERYONE who has a child gets it, whether they work or not. It's a very big help actually, if you do what we do and spend it on the kids, things like clothes, a treat every now and then. It works out at around £130 a month for me with two young kids, and me and my wife work earning around £25,000 per year IN TOTAL. Not a lot of money these days, especially in the current climate, so the Child Benefit and Tax Credits have been a lifesaver (literally) in the past couple of years.

But yeah, it sickens me to see these people who don't work, driving around in a nice car (I don't even have a car), in the pub most nights (I wish), holiday abroad every year (we're not going anywhere this year) and the rest of it. My sister and her boyfriend are a prime example, no jobs, two kids, nice council house, nice things inside the house, the kind of things which I have to work damn hard for, no council tax bill or rent because they get housing benfit and council tax benefit. Makes me mad, so I'm going to stop.

Now, where did I put my blood pressure pills..........

[Neil]

My sister and her boyfriend are a prime example, no jobs, two kids, nice council house, nice things inside the house, the kind of things which I have to work damn hard for, no council tax bill or rent because they get housing benfit and council tax benefit. Makes me mad, so I'm going to stop.

Someone we know is a social worker, and she's sick and tired of this sort of thing in the UK - She's actually leaving the country...

[Ghost Of War]

Someone we know is a social worker, and she's sick and tired of this sort of thing in the UK - She's actually leaving the country...

I don't blame her, I wish I could.

[Legion2213]

The new government missed a trick with child benefit, they could have saved millions upon millions by simply means testing it.

People with incomes of 40k a year don't need this help, people who are wealthy don't need it. I mean even the Queen is entitled to this FFS!

[BillyRay]

I mean even the Queen is entitled to this FFS!

Sure, but think about her kids!

I don't think they could survive on their own.

:lol:

[Mr.G]

I have to work damn hard for, no council tax bill or rent because they get housing benfit and council tax benefit. Makes me mad, so I'm going to stop.

Now, where did I put my blood pressure pills..........

Could you explain what the housing/council tax benefit is to an American?

[Ghost Of War]

Could you explain what the housing/council tax benefit is to an American?

Basically, because they don't work, and are on certain state benefits (I think you'd call it welfare), they get a house from the local council. Because they're on benefits, they can apply for Housing benefit which pays the rent, so they're more-or-less rent free. Council Tax is a tax that everyone has to pay to their local council, if you receive certain state benefits you can apply for Council Tax benefit, which more-or-less pays your Council tax bill.

Although, people with jobs are also entitled to a council house, but if you work you have to pay your own rent and tax.

[Tricky]

Although, people with jobs are also entitled to a council house, but if you work you have to pay your own rent and tax.

Which is fully taken advantage of by those who dont want to work because as thick as they are, they know how to work the system, its a shame no government will ever have the balls to cut off the benefits to these people, as it really would give society the shake up it needs if they actually had to work to get their money. Of course nobody would want to see these people starve to death, but if they were made to earn their benefits by doing community work then it would be a step in the right direction

[Legion2213]

Forcing people to work for their benefits is morally wrong.

Employ them by all means, but make sure they have union representation, pension, proper health and safety and all the other things that other workers are entitled to by law.

[Ghost Of War]

Forcing people to work for their benefits is morally wrong.

And claiming benefits that you're not really entitled to is legally wrong. Fair enough if you are genuinely unable to work due to health or disability, but pretending to be ill, or just not being arsed to work, in my eyes is stealing money from my pocket. The rules need to be tightened to stop fraudulent benefit claims. I know people who have no intention of ever working because they know how to exploit the system, and they don't feel a bit guilty about doing it. My sister, as I've said, is one of them. I would love it if she was forced to work for her benefits, it would give her a kick up the arse, and maybe make her want to get a better job in the end.


Employ them by all means, but make sure they have union representation, pension, proper health and safety and all the other things that other workers are entitled to by law.

Totally agree with this, too.

[Neil]

And claiming benefits that you're not really entitled to is legally wrong. Fair enough if you are genuinely unable to work due to health or disability, but pretending to be ill, or just not being arsed to work, in my eyes is stealing money from my pocket. The rules need to be tightened to stop fraudulent benefit claims. I know people who have no intention of ever working because they know how to exploit the system, and they don't feel a bit guilty about doing it. My sister, as I've said, is one of them. I would love it if she was forced to work for her benefits, it would give her a kick up the arse, and maybe make her want to get a better job in the end.


One in seven children growing up in households where no-one works

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1049732/One-seven-children-growing-households-works.html


Six million Britons are living in households where nobody works

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469369/Six-million-Britons-living-households-works.html

[Ghost Of War]

The Daily Fail? No ta.

[Andy]

The saddest part is that we probably only will have a sensible government for 5 years then we will have to endure labour again. I get really annoyed with my friends and the public in general who are so forgiving and blindsighted with labour and so unforgiving and unreasonably harsh with the conservatives. Honestly, labour only stand for lies, deceipt, waste, spending what the country dosnt have and then taxing us to death to cover up their ineptitude.. The conservatives stand for straight talking, pulling us back out of blairs illegal war, pulling us back out of Europe after labour betrayed us all and forced us in and yes, hard times, spending cuts and raised taxes but again this is to repair labours damage and they don't lie and try and sugar coat it, why the hell can people not see this?

[Eyebiter]

Who's getting this money from the interest? this makes no sense - who has loaned us money? I thought we printed it (quantitititative easing as Charlie Brooker would say) - I can understand the deficit, and forgive my lack of financial knowledge when it comes to economics, but I thought we just tunnelled ourselves into a hole that we have to fix? Who lent us all this money? The whole thing is way too complex and just like the stock market, it's almost completely untouchable, it's not meant to be understood in my book -
and what happens if we don't pay? Chinese debt collection agencies knocking on our doors (only country I can think of that we may be paying interest to)? lol..it's insane...



Bank of England. Been two years that the UK has been in default. Time to pay your bills.

[Wyldwraith]

You UK folks have other Labor-related problems that need confronting.
The major cultural and political inroads carved into your nation by Islamic fundamentalists for one. It's very telling that even the Scandinavian nations are advising the UK via their ambassadors that immediate & comprehensive actions need to be taken to curtail the rising immigration levels of extremist muslims, and the socio-political damage they're causing to your country.

It's a bad sign when you have millions of your nation's citizens setting up religion-based Legal Courts that they are turning to (allegedly of their own free will, yea right), INSTEAD of UK courts.

Speaking solely as an outsider with no first-hand knowledge of the UK's political climate or the texture of the various layers of societal tensions at work, I believe it is VERY BAD to have a VERY LARGE NUMBER of religious extremists of ANY flavor running around one's country with lots of money they receive from their allies in Islam-dominated wealthy nations like Saudi Arabia....

Especially during a time of economic crisis, political instability and major social tensions.

Put another way, EVERY European nation that's developed money/job loss problems during a period where a large number of Muslims have immigrated to said nation have had problems with rioting, rising frequency of hate-crimes and the occurrence of weird international incidents.

It's almost as if the Arab world believes they can "buy" a controlling interest in the internal functions of European countries, simply by moving several hundred thousand of their people into said European nation.

France got it in the neck from Muslim troublemakers backed up by a larger non-violent but sympathetic Muslim population not that long ago when unemployment went through the roof.

Your Labor Party may have invited you all to dance with the Devil by accepting so much political support from unsavory Islamic powerbases.

[SymphonicX]

You UK folks have other Labor-related problems that need confronting.
The major cultural and political inroads carved into your nation by Islamic fundamentalists for one. It's very telling that even the Scandinavian nations are advising the UK via their ambassadors that immediate & comprehensive actions need to be taken to curtail the rising immigration levels of extremist muslims, and the socio-political damage they're causing to your country.

It's a bad sign when you have millions of your nation's citizens setting up religion-based Legal Courts that they are turning to (allegedly of their own free will, yea right), INSTEAD of UK courts.

Speaking solely as an outsider with no first-hand knowledge of the UK's political climate or the texture of the various layers of societal tensions at work, I believe it is VERY BAD to have a VERY LARGE NUMBER of religious extremists of ANY flavor running around one's country with lots of money they receive from their allies in Islam-dominated wealthy nations like Saudi Arabia....

Especially during a time of economic crisis, political instability and major social tensions.

Put another way, EVERY European nation that's developed money/job loss problems during a period where a large number of Muslims have immigrated to said nation have had problems with rioting, rising frequency of hate-crimes and the occurrence of weird international incidents.

It's almost as if the Arab world believes they can "buy" a controlling interest in the internal functions of European countries, simply by moving several hundred thousand of their people into said European nation.

France got it in the neck from Muslim troublemakers backed up by a larger non-violent but sympathetic Muslim population not that long ago when unemployment went through the roof.

Your Labor Party may have invited you all to dance with the Devil by accepting so much political support from unsavory Islamic powerbases.


this, my friend, is a very very sensitive subject!

Unfortunately, you know no one really knows the truth - the issue is so political as for it to be inflated or deflated depending on media and political storm clouds are on the horizon - we all have our PERCEPTIONs - but that's different. Fundamentalism is a massive problem, and the divide between the moderate communities makes rooting out extremism difficult

However, I've never had someone tell me they were offended by my christmas card - and those intermediary courts you talk about have existed for hundreds of years - jews have had their own court system for a long time.

The much feared "sharia" court of law in the UK governs issues such as divorce and shit like that - it doesn't supercede the UK courts

[Wyldwraith]

this, my friend, is a very very sensitive subject!

Unfortunately, you know no one really knows the truth - the issue is so political as for it to be inflated or deflated depending on media and political storm clouds are on the horizon - we all have our PERCEPTIONs - but that's different. Fundamentalism is a massive problem, and the divide between the moderate communities makes rooting out extremism difficult

However, I've never had someone tell me they were offended by my christmas card - and those intermediary courts you talk about have existed for hundreds of years - jews have had their own court system for a long time.

The much feared "sharia" court of law in the UK governs issues such as divorce and shit like that - it doesn't supercede the UK courts

Meant no disrespect,
Unlike many of my American brethren, I do NOT believe I somehow instinctively know what is best for all other nations. My concern about the rising Islamic fundamentalist tide in the UK (and my mentioning of the Sharia Courts) had less to do with some sort of direct defiance of your government's authority, and more to do with making the point that having a quarter million residents/citizens of your nation CHOOSING to believe they should handle serious matters such as divorce, custody arrangements and informal civil claims in a Religion-Based court, rather than demonstrating a desire to integrate into existing UK society by utilizing UK civil courts when its a matter of choice and not necessarily a matter of law.

Put another way, I'm NOT saying that the much-discussed "Sharia Law" is some sort of threat to the authority or primacy of the UK's courts. What I'm saying is the choice to take their issues in contention to an Islam-based court demonstrates a desire to remain detached from the society surrounding them.

Yes, European Jews have maintained similar ethnic arbitration practices for centuries, but they were forced to by the raging anti-Semitism fostered by the dominant Catholic Church, particularly during and for a time after the Black Death.

The difference between European society hundreds of years ago and today's vastly more tolerant social climate is profound, to say the very least. Jewish families and self-contained Jewish communities-within-the-larger-communities were subject to internal pressures (their desire not to be culturally consumed) and external pressures (the intolerance, hatred and violence they were subjected to) fanned the flames of isolationism inside the Jewish community.

The same cannot be said to be true for the majority of their history. In the main, Muslims are quite accustomed to either inhabiting territories they dominated, or moving into new territories and becoming the dominant social force quickly.

Anyways, I've gotten a bit off-target. I guess what I was trying to convey was my concern that the last thing the UK needs at the moment is the insanity of religious extremists.

The same sort of unrest/social and political instability that happened in France (in their case due to sudden and prolonged spikes in unemployment), was severely inflamed by the simultaneous acting out of Muslim radicals. Just worries me that with more serious and multi-layered difficulties facing the UK, and comparatively far more Muslim radicals in the UK, that trouble you guys don't need could be just around the corner...and the damned extremists may look at it as an "opportunity".

[SymphonicX]

Anyways, I've gotten a bit off-target. I guess what I was trying to convey was my concern that the last thing the UK needs at the moment is the insanity of religious extremists. .

Yeah I get you - don't worry I didn't think you were attacking the UK by any means :)

I enjoyed your post and regardless of Islam or any religion I think you nailed the subject perfectly with the quote above - it's not a swipe at religion or Islam as much as extremism...

I guess the thing is a dedicated system of law based on religion in a way does supercede parts of society - if not the UK courts - it supercedes the rules, regulations and cultural relevance of the indigineous population at hand and as you say, can be percieved as a "fuck you" to the rest of us that live here.
I think what you'll find though, by and large, is that people will choose the court that's going to benefit them the most in their current situation - so in a way it's kinda pointless.
There's also the flip side - that our legal system is already too bogged down with beaurocracy - so this may alleviate it a bit.
But yeah I totally get where you're coming from - I don't think the UK is harmonised in ANY sense, we're, next to America, probably one of the most tribal countries in the world - this kinda thing just serves to further a divide in some cases, at least in terms of perceptions - but things could always be worse - and as I say, I've NEVER had someone tell me my festive holidays offended them, so on the ground, things look much worse on paper.

I hope so anyway - I stopped talking to the public years ago :)