Cobra

[acealive1]

Av71Qh5vVEQ





epic 80's at it's finest

[Purge]

The role of the villain was perfectly overplayed by Brian Thompson. "Let's bleed, pig!"

[SRP76]

"Hazardous to your health."

"What?"

"Me.":lol:

[acealive1]

The role of the villain was perfectly overplayed by Brian Thompson. "Let's bleed, pig!"

man he played the best villain ever in a film. i remember being scared of him as a kid cuz he wasnt some supernatural dude, he was just a regular guy

---------- Post added at 02:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 AM ----------


"Hazardous to your health."

"What?"

"Me.":lol:



LOL


whats funny is he's based on a real guy and the zombie squad is real.

[fartpants]

yep...the baddest man named Marion ever :lol:

[acealive1]

yep...the baddest man named Marion ever :lol:



:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[JDFP]

yep...the baddest man named Marion ever :lol:

Marion Mitchell Morrison (a.k.a. John Wayne) might argue with you on that one. I wouldn't have wanted to be a guy to piss off The Duke, myself. :D

j.p.

[fartpants]

oh please...Cobra would wipe the floor with John Wayne all day long

[acealive1]

oh please...Cobra would wipe the floor with John Wayne all day long



true. but in the making of featurette on the dvd, the stunt man said the easiest to work with and making it look real was a tie between stallone and wayne.

[JDFP]

oh please...Cobra would wipe the floor with John Wayne all day long

No. Freaking. Way. Sure, Stallone came across as bad ass in the day, but John Wayne was a big, big man in stature, girth, and swagger. I wouldn't have wanted to have messed with him in his prime. He was the real deal, not some Hollywood bad-boy.

Same goes with men like Charlton Heston and Steve McQueen. Men (or at least actors) just aren't made like they used to be.

j.p.

[acealive1]

No. Freaking. Way. Sure, Stallone came across as bad ass in the day, but John Wayne was a big, big man in stature, girth, and swagger. I wouldn't have wanted to have messed with him in his prime. He was the real deal, not some Hollywood bad-boy.

Same goes with men like Charlton Heston and Steve McQueen. Men (or at least actors) just aren't made like they used to be.

j.p.


im thinkin vin diesel would give any one a run for their money

[JDFP]

im thinkin vin diesel would give any one a run for their money

Certainly not through acting talent. :)

j.p.

[acealive1]

Certainly not through acting talent. :)

j.p.




he's a bankable star, period. bigger than alot of the 80's guys ever were

[AcesandEights]

He was the real deal, not some Hollywood bad-boy.



Can you recommend a good evenhanded biography of him, JP? I've disliked Wayne for some time, but would like to learn a bit more from more unbiased sources. People either love him or lambaste him. I always view Wayne as the icon that virtually raised a few generation of boys, giving them an idealized idea of what it might mean to be a man, while also being an overcompensating 4f. And his over the top jingoist angle was actually one of his better qualities when weighed against his other social views (ie. his role in blacklisting, gender relations & race).

Anyway, Wayne worship is just one of those things that has always gotten under my skin, but his appeal to so many is pretty hard to deny.

[acealive1]

(ie. his role in blacklisting, gender relations & race).

Anyway, Wayne worship is just one of those things that has always gotten under my skin, but his appeal to so many is pretty hard to deny.


what was his role in black listing and all that u mentioned?

[Purge]

he's a bankable star, period. bigger than alot of the 80's guys ever were

Take away the steroids and that wouls change.

I miss Charles Bronson. Love all the Death Wish films, with the exception of the fourth.

[acealive1]

Take away the steroids and that wouls change.

I miss Charles Bronson. Love all the Death Wish films, with the exception of the fourth.




no sorry, his physique doesnt scream steroids. it screams "i go to the gym 5 times a week" its a very normal body structure

[Purge]

no sorry, his physique doesnt scream steroids. it screams "i go to the gym 5 times a week" its a very normal body structure

I've been following and involved in bodybuilding for 10 years now, and you don't look like that naturally.

[JDFP]

Can you recommend a good evenhanded biography of him, JP? I've disliked Wayne for some time, but would like to learn a bit more from more unbiased sources. People either love him or lambaste him. I always view Wayne as the icon that virtually raised a few generation of boys, giving them an idealized idea of what it might mean to be a man, while also being an overcompensating 4f. And his over the top jingoist angle was actually one of his better qualities when weighed against his other social views (ie. his role in blacklisting, gender relations & race).

Anyway, Wayne worship is just one of those things that has always gotten under my skin, but his appeal to so many is pretty hard to deny.

First: Wayne was never 4F -- that's a common misconception. He was listed as 2-A under deferment for his film work (plus his studio threatened to sue his ass off as well if he enlisted). There's a ton of different sources on this, but he never dodged the draft and from what all I've read had a tremendous amount of guilt in not serving during WWII.

Anyway...very big fan of the Duke. "The Quiet Man" and "The Shootist" are actually two of my most favorite films ever created. Duke was actually dying from cancer during the filming of "The Shootist" and they had to stop and re-start production multiple times wondering if he was going to make it through the production of the film.

I happen to greatly admire some of his political stances (save for his support for the House Un-American Activities Committee, but that was just a cluster most people didn't grasp the full nature of until years later) being fairly Conservative myself.

Of course he was with his faults, he had multiple affairs (hey, the one with Marlena Dietrich is understandable though :D), smoked around six packs of cigarettes a day, was a drunk womanizer (according to several sources they never filmed him after noon during the day because by then he was drunk off his ass) with questionable and what would be considered today to be semi-racist opinions (although honestly, not that questionable for the period of time he was living -- I think it would be stretching it a bit to call him a racist for the time-period he lived in, that's inserting historical presentism on a different period of time which we can't judge by today's standards because the world and society were different then). So, yeah, Duke was a mixed bag. The man was made up of the good, bad, and ugly (like the rest of us).

What I dig most about him and the other G.I./Silent Generation male stars is that they had something that 99% of actors have lost today. They were mean, often drunk, rugged, dirty, gritty and vulgar -- but they were real men. Men like Wayne, Heston, McQueen, Paul Newman, etc. It's a bygone era and now we're infused with a bunch of clean shaven guys sold for pure sex appeal instead of rugged Americana.

I'm certainly not worshiping the man in the least, so don't take that wrong, but I respect the capturing of a time of great acting (when it was real) that is unfortunately been swept away by time. To answer your question though, most of my knowledge of the Duke comes from years of watching his films and reading bits here and there, so wouldn't be the best to ask about a good bio on him (although I'm sure you could Netflix it for some good starts on some docu's on him).

j.p.

[acealive1]

I've been following and involved in bodybuilding for 10 years now, and you don't look like that naturally.


i follow bodybuilding as well, a friend of mine has been a well known bodybuilder for the last 25 years.

[acealive1]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs164.snc4/37560_462511273312_89562268312_5889648_1309856_n.j pg



just weights, no steroids

[darth los]

No. Freaking. Way. Sure, Stallone came across as bad ass in the day, but John Wayne was a big, big man in stature, girth, and swagger. I wouldn't have wanted to have messed with him in his prime. He was the real deal, not some Hollywood bad-boy.

Same goes with men like Charlton Heston and Steve McQueen. Men (or at least actors) just aren't made like they used to be.

j.p.

People forget that the stars back in the day, be it in sports, movies or whatever, actually fought in wars and got shot at.

That's enough to give the duke the edge, for me anyway.

Freakin' Ted williams. Last man to hit 400 and fought in WW2. :stunned:

Now that's Bad Ass.

Nuff said.

:cool:

[bassman]

People forget that the stars back in the day, be it in sports, movies or whatever, actually fought in wars and got shot at.

That's enough to give the duke the edge, for me anyway.


I could very well be wrong here.....but I thought Wayne got into a good deal of trouble because he refused to go into service?


As for Cobra - Never been a big fan. It's okay I guess, just nothing special. I'm mostly glad that Stallone took his ideas away from Beverly Hills Cop and used them in Cobra. BHC would've been horrible if he stayed around....

[acealive1]

I could very well be wrong here.....but I thought Wayne got into a good deal of trouble because he refused to go into service?


As for Cobra - Never been a big fan. It's okay I guess, just nothing special. I'm mostly glad that Stallone took his ideas away from Beverly Hills Cop and used them in Cobra. BHC would've been horrible if he stayed around....




like i said before, cobra was based on a real guy.

[JDFP]

I could very well be wrong here.....but I thought Wayne got into a good deal of trouble because he refused to go into service?



Yes. You are wrong. :)

He wanted to serve but due to studio contracts/obligations as well as some family/etc. issues he was listed as 3-A to 2-A during the war.

j.p.

[darth los]

I could very well be wrong here.....but I thought Wayne got into a good deal of trouble because he refused to go into service?


As for Cobra - Never been a big fan. It's okay I guess, just nothing special. I'm mostly glad that Stallone took his ideas away from Beverly Hills Cop and used them in Cobra. BHC would've been horrible if he stayed around....

I believe you are right but i found this more interesting and way moe disturbing:

" I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.... The academic community has developed certain tests that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically.... I don't feel guilty about the fact that five or ten generations ago these people were slaves. Now I'm not condoning slavery. It's just a fact of life, like the kid who gets infantile paralysis and can't play football like the rest of us.[40]

When asked how blacks could address the inequities of the past, Wayne replied:

By going to school. I don't know why people insist that blacks have been forbidden to go to school. They were allowed in public schools wherever I've been. I think any black man who can compete with a white can get a better break than a white man. I wish they'd tell me where in the world they have it better than right here in America"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne#Military_service_controversy

It's funny how history basically whitewashes things like this ala, Sen. Byrd.

The dude was a racist, therefore a piece of shit in my book.

I hereby switch my vote to cobra.

Although to be fair most whites of that era had a similar mindset so...

:cool:

[BillyRay]

Best Marion EVAH:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lLsdaCVk3Kk/SsAnlx4VjCI/AAAAAAABOQA/XpO3dyjMnCs/s400/marionross_l.jpg

[JDFP]

It's funny how history basically whitewashes things like this ala, Sen. Byrd.

The dude was a racist, therefore a piece of shit in my book.

I hereby switch my vote to cobra.

Although to be fair most whites of that era had a similar mindset so...

:cool:

I talk about this in my long winded post (like most of mine :p) earlier about him when I said you can't call him a racist based on the standards of the day he lived in. If you look at what he's saying, he's talking about people becoming educated and not to be ignorant (Bill Cosby is saying almost the exact same thing today but it's not racist because Cosby is black). Yes, I agree that his opinions were a bit racially charged but you can't base current senses on someone from 50 years ago as society/culture and the world were all completely different places. If Duke was alive and had these type of opinions it would be one thing, but something from a different era cannot be viewed by the same lenses we view information/ideology today.

Your last sentence sums up what I'm saying here. It was a different era/different society.

j.p.

[bassman]

like i said before, cobra was based on a real guy.

Yeah I know, but before Cobra was in production Stallone was going to play the lead in Beverly Hills Cop. He eventually backed out due to "creative differences" with the writers and producers, so he took his ideas to Cobra. A lot of what you see in Cobra was Stallone's idea for BHC.




Selective Service Records indicate he did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but apparently Republic Pictures intervened directly, requesting his further deferment.[33] In May, 1944, Wayne was reclassified as 1-A (draft eligible), but the studio obtained another 2-A deferment (for "support of national health, safety, or interest").[33] He remained 2-A until the war's end. Thus, John Wayne did not illegally "dodge" the draft, but he never took direct positive action toward enlistment.

Well that explains what I had heard. Thanks for the link, Carlos.

[darth los]

Well that explains what I had heard. Thanks for the link, Carlos.


No prob. I was educated as well.



I talk about this in my long winded post (like most of mine :p) earlier about him when I said you can't call him a racist based on the standards of the day he lived in. If you look at what he's saying, he's talking about people becoming educated and not to be ignorant (Bill Cosby is saying almost the exact same thing today but it's not racist because Cosby is black). Yes, I agree that his opinions were a bit racially charged but you can't base current senses on someone from 50 years ago as society/culture and the world were all completely different places. If Duke was alive and had these type of opinions it would be one thing, but something from a different era cannot be viewed by the same lenses we view information/ideology today.

Your last sentence sums up what I'm saying here. It was a different era/different society.

j.p.


Agreed. We can't look at the duke the same way as we would say, Michael Richards.

Richards lives in this era and to still be able to spew venom like that, in public no less, is totally different.

However, even though he may have lived 50 some odd years ago, as a minority i find it impossible to, for lack of a better word, "support" him knowing what he thought of people like me.

I'd be like duke can i have your autograph. And have him say something like, "you can put my bags are over here boy."

I love seinfeld as well but I'll never look at Kosmo Kramer the same way again either.

:cool:

[acealive1]

I believe you are right but i found this more interesting and way moe disturbing:

" I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.... The academic community has developed certain tests that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically.... I don't feel guilty about the fact that five or ten generations ago these people were slaves. Now I'm not condoning slavery. It's just a fact of life, like the kid who gets infantile paralysis and can't play football like the rest of us.[40]

When asked how blacks could address the inequities of the past, Wayne replied:

By going to school. I don't know why people insist that blacks have been forbidden to go to school. They were allowed in public schools wherever I've been. I think any black man who can compete with a white can get a better break than a white man. I wish they'd tell me where in the world they have it better than right here in America"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne#Military_service_controversy

It's funny how history basically whitewashes things like this ala, Sen. Byrd.

The dude was a racist, therefore a piece of shit in my book.

I hereby switch my vote to cobra.

Although to be fair most whites of that era had a similar mindset so...

:cool:








well, i was a john wayne fan until just now when he made a complete ass out of himself. i swear, its always always about proving something to someone. horse. shit.







and since u posted the link..........



When asked how blacks could address the inequities of the past, Wayne replied:

By going to school. I don't know why people insist that blacks have been forbidden to go to school. They were allowed in public schools wherever I've been. I think any black man who can compete with a white can get a better break than a white man. I wish they'd tell me where in the world they have it better than right here in America
















is he fucking serious? way to put the blinders on,john.

[LouCipherr]

I'll just stick my head in and say this: racism is racism, regardless of the 'era' or time period the racists lived. It may have been 'socially acceptable' but it was racist none the less.

Carry on.... :D

[acealive1]

I'll just stick my head in and say this: racism is racism, regardless of the 'era' or time period the racists lived. It may have been 'socially acceptable' but it was racist none the less.

Carry on.... :D




this person speaks the truth, get them a beer.

[darth los]

And saying that in the 1950's no less.


I reeks of the same sort of rhetoric that slaveowners used to spout.

A good number of them swore their "negroes" were as happy as shit and thought they treated them pretty well.

Until they were caught trying to learn how to read that is. :rolleyes:

:cool:

[JDFP]

I'll just stick my head in and say this: racism is racism, regardless of the 'era' or time period the racists lived. It may have been 'socially acceptable' but it was racist none the less.

Carry on.... :D

No. It's not. Sorry but the world is not "black and white" (figuratively or literally). Something that can be perfectly acceptable today 50 years from now can be considered as racist and/or sexist or against any form of "social acceptance" that is commonly held today.

You can't base ideology of today's standards on people who lived in a different era. It's not the same. It doesn't mean it's 'right" but at the same time it's not the same.

j.p.

[shootemindehead]

Wayne was a piece of shit. Nothing more.

And as for the "Studio stopping him from going to war", I don't buy it. Why didn't they stop James Stewart or Henry Fonda?

Besides, John Wayne was such a heavyweight, he could have done anything he wanted, regardless of what the movie studio said.

I do like 'The Shootist', though. But, over the years, it's been Lauren Bacall's performance that I find more appealing and "Who Shot Liberty Valance" kicked off the so-called "revisionist Western", which we can all be thankful for.

Anything else, I can take with a pinch of salt.

[acealive1]

And saying that in the 1950's no less.


I reeks of the same sort of rhetoric that slaveowners used to spout.

A good number of them swore their "negroes" were as happy as shit and thought they treated them pretty well.

Until they were caught trying to learn how to read that is. :rolleyes:

:cool:


*thumbs WAY up*

[LouCipherr]

No. It's not. Sorry but the world is not "black and white" (figuratively or literally). Something that can be perfectly acceptable today 50 years from now can be considered as racist and/or sexist or against any form of "social acceptance" that is commonly held today.

You can't base ideology of today's standards on people who lived in a different era. It's not the same. It doesn't mean it's 'right" but at the same time it's not the same.

j.p.


JD - I respecfully disagree. The definition of a racist or racism hasn't changed since it's inception. I'm not referring to the ideology of whatever time period, I'm referring to the strict definition of the word. Wether it was 100 years ago or today, a racist is a racist. It doesn't matter how you slice it IMO. I see what you're trying to get at, but just because something was "socially acceptable" during a particular era or time period doesn't mean it wasn't racist. Owning slaves might have been acceptable at one point in the US' history, but that doesn't mean it was right (as you said), and it damn well fits the definition of "racism" to a "T"

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... ;)

[bassman]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... ;)

fuck it like a duck?


I'm a bit on both sides. Racism is racism, no matter what year it is. But on the other hand....you've got phrases and parts of racism that have changed over the years. The "N" word was used to offend people, but now it's turned into more of a slang or recognition. I guess in that small way it can change...

[JDFP]

JD - I respecfully disagree. The definition of a racist or racism hasn't changed since it's inception. I'm not referring to the ideology of whatever time period, I'm referring to the strict definition of the word. Wether it was 100 years ago or today, a racist is a racist. It doesn't matter how you slice it IMO. I see what you're trying to get at, but just because something was "socially acceptable" during a particular era or time period doesn't mean it wasn't racist. Owning slaves might have been acceptable at one point in the US' history, but that doesn't mean it was right (as you said), and it damn well fits the definition of "racism" to a "T"

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... ;)


Hey Lou,

Aaarghhh... Ehhh....

Frick man, you make a good point. And I understand what you're saying too. Here's my issue (and I'm going to try and explain this the best I can):

If you're going by just the letter of the word instead of the spirit of the word (like letter of the law v. spirit of the law) then I agree with you by mere definition of the word. However, I'm more interested in what the spirit of racism means.

While you can classify someone by pure "letter of the law" as being racist from 50+ years ago based upon a phrase such as John Wayne made in what was quoted I don't think it's the same as if someone were to say similiar things today in today's age and culture vs. society back under the very different world at that place and time. I don't think you could classify someone making a similar phrase then as being "racist" as you can today. It's not just a matter of what was socially acceptable or not, but more a matter of how the world worked then and how people in society were viewed/seen. Does this make sense? (Generally, depending on who you ask, I try and make logical sense. :D).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make excuses for someone treating anyone less for being different in any way (gender, religion, etc.) but you just can't apply "the letter of the law" across all era's the same as you can today.

An example of this would be someone in 1910 calling a minority adult "boy" as opposed to someone today doing it. If someone today was to do it under the guises of our cultural understanding then it would be highly offensive and derogatory. Done in 1910 no one would have thought twice about saying it -- the question in 1910 would have been the individual using the phrase "boy" as to whether the person maliciously used the word (and thus would be racist by the letter and spirit of the law) or whether the individual used the word with no maliciousness intended (in which case you could classify it as racist under the letter of the law but certainly not spirit of the law in classifying someone as racist). This is the best way I can think of attempting to explain this.

j.p.

[shootemindehead]

fuck it like a duck?


I'm a bit on both sides. Racism is racism, no matter what year it is. But on the other hand....you've got phrases and parts of racism that have changed over the years. The "N" word was used to offend people, but now it's turned into more of a slang or recognition. I guess in that small way it can change...

Perhaps. But that doesn't mean it has replaced it's "other" meaning. Words do change and language is an ever evolving entity, however, words with such history rarely lose their inherent negative angle.

[LouCipherr]

fuck it like a duck?


I'm a bit on both sides. Racism is racism, no matter what year it is. But on the other hand....you've got phrases and parts of racism that have changed over the years. The "N" word was used to offend people, but now it's turned into more of a slang or recognition. I guess in that small way it can change...

:lol: Fuck it like a duck! :lol: touche'!

I see exactly what you're saying, bassman, and I agree. It has changed, however, we all need to keep in mind that even though the "N" word is more of a slang word now than a derrogatory word, used by the wrong person or in the wrong way it switches from slang to racism in mere miliseconds. Which, personally, I think is annoying. If black people are using the word to "take it back" then don't be offended if a white person says it in a way that's not meant to be derrogatory. That last part of my sentance is extremely important. It's one thing to say it AT someone ("Hey, you n-word!"), it's another to use it as a slang word "hey, he's my 'n-word'" - meaning, a really good friend.

Y'know, I have to admit.. I feel like a fucking douchebag having to type "N-word" - can't we just be grown ups and be able to type the word in a non-derrogatory way without offending people? sheesh...:annoyed:




Hey Lou,

Aaarghhh... Ehhh....

Frick man, you make a good point. And I understand what you're saying too. Here's my issue (and I'm going to try and explain this the best I can):

If you're going by just the letter of the word instead of the spirit of the word (like letter of the law v. spirit of the law) then I agree with you by mere definition of the word. However, I'm more interested in what the spirit of racism means.

Ok, in that respect, I perfectly understand what you mean and what you're getting at. Makes sense, and I agree. I was going by the "strict definition" and you're looking at the "spirit" of the laws at the time. Makes sense to me. ;)

I'm glad A) you didn't get pissed off at my explanation (I was hoping you wouldn't, but wasn't sure where this conversation would go as it's a VERY touchy subject) and B) it seems for once in my damn life I got my words in order enough to convey my message properly. A first I must say! :stunned:

[darth los]

fuck it like a duck?


The "N" word was used to offend people, but now it's turned into more of a slang or recognition.

Really?

Use that word the next time your in a mall and let me know how it goes over for you. :lol:

In fairness, whites have lost the right to use that word, because when they had it they kind of abused it so...

I think that's chris rock.

:cool:

[bassman]

No, no, no. I personally don't use the word. I was refering more to blacks. They use it as a "friend" kind of thing. I definitely wouldn't use it in public...




Now that I think about it, this thread could use some Clayton Bixby...

f7hxfMHV9A0&hl=en_US&fs=1

:D

[darth los]

No, no, no. I personally don't use the word. I was refering more to blacks. They use it as a "friend" kind of thing. I definitely wouldn't use it in public...




Now that I think about it, this thread could use some Clayton Bixby...

f7hxfMHV9A0&hl=en_US&fs=1

:D

Remember when we had that whole person of color thing a while back?

Well, one way to tell if you're a person of color is is you can use that word in public without negative reprocussions. I'm not black but i use it all the time and no one flinches.

Fucking classic skit by the way. :thumbsup:

The dude's head exploding is perfect. :lol:

:cool:

[Trin]

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular raceWayne's quotes don't seem particularly racist given this definition.

But I don't think this definition covers the modern-day negative connotation. Modern day racism is no longer mired in belief in inherent racial superiority. There are too many examples where people of every race have risen to the top echelons of power, wealth, and fame to discount a race wholesale like that.

Today the conflict is based more broadly in cultural affinity. Perception of a particular culture as lazy, or irresponsible, or disloyal bleeds over from the culture to the individual. That comes out as bias for the individual in extending opportunity or acceptance. For that to change whole cultures are going to have to become more tolerant, more understanding, or more similar.

Now, I seem to have lost that Batman thread...