Chinese missile could shift Pacific power balance

[darth los]

Do we have another arms race on our hands?

Hopefully not because truthfully this country is in such bad finacial shape, we can't afford it.

Military spending is killing this country but some feel that the military budget is off limits when it comes to budget cuts.

I always say, the money is not infinite. We either spend it on this or that. The problem is that the U.S. has been used to having "the best of all worlds", for lack of a better term, for so long and now we presently find ourselves in an economic situation where that it no longer possible.

There are debates in Washington over balancing the budget yet no major public official will put forth a plan on what they would cut. It sounds nice on paper but when it comes down to it no one has the political will to make the hard decisions.

Isn't ironic though that the country we borrow the majority of our money from is the one we might have the next cold war with?

That simple fact ensures that the U.S. won't be nearly as agressive with china as it was with the Soviet Union.

Any thoughts?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_carrier_killer

:cool:

[slickwilly13]

We should have nuked this country along with North Korea over 50 years ago and we would not have this problem today. We also need to quit buying cheap worthless shit made in China and make our own products. I fear bad things are going to happen to our country in the near future.

[darth los]

We should have nuked this country along with North Korea over 50 years ago and we would not have this problem today. We also need to quit buying cheap worthless shit made in China and make our own products. I fear bad things are going to happen to our country in the near future.

Oh the U.S. is definitely on the decline. Our golden years were after WW2.

And no, this country does not make anything anymore. You can only import so much. What is it that we actually export? To me it's a question of patriotism. Buy Americna people!

Another thing you said brings me around to this phenomena that no one really talks about. I call it Politically correct warfare.

War is hell. Bad things are going to happen and alot of things are gonna get blown up. You mess with us, you get fucked up, period.

Since when did it become our obligation to rebuild these country's infrastructure? How about building THIS country's infrasrtucture. Lord knows we need it and at the same time it'll put people to work.

:cool:

[Legion2213]

We should have nuked this country along with North Korea over 50 years ago and we would not have this problem today. We also need to quit buying cheap worthless shit made in China and make our own products. I fear bad things are going to happen to our country in the near future.

Anything bad that happens to your country won't be down to China, it will be down to lack of forward planing by your own leaders (I include my own country in this as well before you think it is an attack on the US)

China's strategies are usually planned around time scales of generations, we in the west don't seem so patient or forward thinking (they are also very patient, China has been pretty much the same entity for around 5000 years).

[SRP76]

How is this going to shift anything? China already is the dominant power in the region, and has been for some time.

[Tricky]

You can only import so much. What is it that we actually export?

Awful "comedy" TV shows (friends, frasier etc), teen high school dramas, horrid RnB music, war, and McDonalds :lol:

[Legion2213]

I do like a couple of double cheese burgers from McD's now and then. And those hot apple pie things...oh yeah! :)

[AcesandEights]

Awful "comedy" TV shows (friends, frasier etc), teen high school dramas, horrid RnB music, war, and McDonalds :lol:

You're welcome ;)

[Tricky]

You're welcome ;)

:lol: :p

[Exatreides]

China's rise to power is not solid, they have massive problems when it comes to the Ughar population as well as in Tibet. They artificially deflate their value of their currency to help push production over consumption.

While China's GDP will overtake the US, it's per capita income is still a joke.

While It's third compared to the combined European Union and the United States in the GDP category. It's Per Capita is rated 128th. With a high growth rate, a political party that is not very popular.

When the finally really re evaluate their currency it's going to throw them back years. While the stairway to Chinese economic prosperity is high, it's built on a very narrow foundation and under the whip of an oppressive regime.

As for military? America currently has 59% of the entire worlds navy. China is no threat.

[Tricky]

As for military? America currently has 59% of the entire worlds navy. China is no threat.

Said navy isnt making much headway with a bunch of poorly armed goat herders at present though, nor is the combined ground & air forces of NATO. Conventional armies dont win wars anymore despite how impressive their gear & numbers are, I guess it would depend on whether China fought "properly" or not...

[acealive1]

just like fuckin russia and north korea.......if they woulda had nukes, they woulda used em. no ones dared to since we bombed the shit outta japan twice.


also, u know those commie countries regularly parade around with EMPTY missles,right?

[AcesandEights]

The Chinese have a plan...


http://www.reddawn2010.com/images/phocagallery/pontiac/sleepingbear/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_propaganda%201.jpg

http://www.theawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/red-dawn-poster.png

[acealive1]

ok red dawn.....

[Eyebiter]

This is old news

"Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.”

http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/

[Mr.G]

We should have nuked this country along with North Korea over 50 years ago and we would not have this problem today. We also need to quit buying cheap worthless shit made in China and make our own products. I fear bad things are going to happen to our country in the near future.

Nah, I think having a common enemy is good for America. It should allow us to develop new and better technology like during the cold war of the 1980s. Nobody cheers for Goliath, right?

[mista_mo]

Said navy isnt making much headway with a bunch of poorly armed goat herders at present though, nor is the combined ground & air forces of NATO. Conventional armies dont win wars anymore despite how impressive their gear & numbers are, I guess it would depend on whether China fought "properly" or not...

If war between the two were to happen, I highly doubt that it would turn into another guerrilla war, as the Chinese have focused so much money on building up a modern fighting force.

Also, aircraft carriers are generally escorted by other smaller ships, that have the capability to destroy incoming missiles minutes before they come close to striking their target. Hell, aircraft carriers themselves have plenty of anti missile defense systems in place.


The real question should be whether or not China currently has enough missiles to overwhelm the missile defense systems of a carrier battlegroup?

[darth los]

If war between the two were to happen, I highly doubt that it would turn into another guerrilla war, as the Chinese have focused so much money on building up a modern fighting force.

Also, aircraft carriers are generally escorted by other smaller ships, that have the capability to destroy incoming missiles minutes before they come close to striking their target. Hell, aircraft carriers themselves have plenty of anti missile defense systems in place.


The real question should be whether or not China currently has enough missiles to overwhelm the missile defense systems of a carrier battlegroup?

Ok what have you done with the real Mr. mo? :lol:

:cool:

[rongravy]

How is this going to shift anything? China already is the dominant power in the region, and has been for some time.

I agree, and they will hardly attempt to destroy the peoples that buy the most of their sometimes corrupted schnizz.
True, they are wayyyy worse to mess with, on paper, than Russia was. But isn't this really just more posturing?
Who wants to end it all anyway?
The smart ones don't believe in all that religious nonsense. There is a paradox in all this: how can those who want to subjegate the masses greedily want to end it all?
It's all a bunch of fear tactics.
Chinese fire drill the shit out of us, then try to fatten us up with high glucuse corn syrup...
Truth is, we are forerunners of a new type of civilization supposedly in danger of being wiped out by war or man made catastrophe.
I'm not buying it. I am a firm believer in shrugging off the chains of superstitious, GAWD fearing... well, for lack of a better word... superstition.
I don't believe for one second they wanna attempt to finish us off.
Also, I saw where someone said something about us not being in the game anymore, so to speak.
True, we are lacking in ingenuity right now, but we make up in heart. Don't count us out, and don't hope for us to "tap out"...
Power is only in the eyes of the beholder, and that just might occasionally be biased and semi delusional...

[EvilNed]

The Chinese are your friends. Accept them as your new overlords, and you will find existance a happier one.

[Publius]

Said navy isnt making much headway with a bunch of poorly armed goat herders at present though,

Um, not many goat herders on the high seas. Seriously, how much headway would you expect a navy to make in a mountainous landlocked country?

[Tricky]

Um, not many goat herders on the high seas. Seriously, how much headway would you expect a navy to make in a mountainous landlocked country?

I wasnt talking about trying to use the ships on land :rolleyes: I was thinking more the launching of missiles from ships on to land as has been done with Afghan in the past & made sod all impact. What good would the biggest navy in the world do against China these days if it came to a ruck unless it was nukes you were deploying?

[Legion2213]

The Chinese are your friends. Accept them as your new overlords, and you will find existance a happier one.

As a supporter of Liverpool FC, that may actually be a reality for me soon. :)

[shootemindehead]

As a supporter of Liverpool FC, that may actually be a reality for me soon. :)

Can only be better than the fuckheads that are in at the moment. :mad:

[darth los]

and elections don't help cause you're just trading in the old fuckheads for new ones.

:cool:

[JDFP]

The Chinese are your friends. Accept them as your new overlords, and you will find existance a happier one.

As a great man once said...

http://arkjournal.com/uploaded_images/Charlton-Heston-786172.jpg

From My Cold Dead Hands...

... and that's about all I've got to say about that. :D

j.p.

[Publius]

What good would the biggest navy in the world do against China these days if it came to a ruck unless it was nukes you were deploying?

Defend Taiwan against invasion. Navy's a fair bit more useful for preventing amphibious invasions than putting down insurgencies.

[C5NOTLD]

As for military? America currently has 59% of the entire worlds navy. China is no threat.

A Nuke attack doesn't have to hit land for either side. It's actually better if you explode it above the country or area you want to attack (above a section of the ocean)- the EMP will send the country/area back to the dark ages: no power for anything, no computers , no communication, no modern transportation, planes would drop from the sky, ships would be dead in the water, destroy the economy as most businesses wouldn't be able to function,...) allowing for much easier take over. The ending of John Carpenter's Escape from LA could be prophetic. :sneaky:




.

[darth los]

Defend Taiwan against invasion. Navy's a fair bit more useful for preventing amphibious invasions than putting down insurgencies.


A Nuke attack doesn't have to hit land for either side. It's actually better if you explode it above the country or area you want to attack (above a section of the ocean)- the EMP will send the country/area back to the dark ages: no power for anything, no computers , no communication, no modern transportation, planes would drop from the sky, ships would be dead in the water, destroy the economy as most businesses wouldn't be able to function,...) allowing for much easier take over. The ending of John Carpenter's Escape from LA could be prophetic. :sneaky:


Modern warfare is different. Wars are fought in unconventional ways now yet the U.S. is still spending hundreds of billions of dollars on relics from past wars like said aircraft carriers, cold war era Jets, etc.

Again, there's alot of fat that needs to be trimmed from our militarty budgets not to mention pulling back from our carious military "committments" around the world.

Having troops in S. Korea is one thing but why is it that still we have over 100,000 combined troops in GErmany and Japan again? :confused:

:cool:

[slickwilly13]

Having troops in S. Korea is one thing but why is it that still we have over 100,000 combined troops in GErmany and Japan again? :confused:

:cool:

To keep them in line, in case they start another World War. ;)

[darth los]

To keep them in line, in case they start another World War. ;)

Perhaps, but we're going to have to start thinking long and hard about where our finacial priorities lie.

This country has way too much responsibility. Some other countries are going to have to share in that burden.

:cool:

[CooperWasRight]

Oh the U.S. is definitely on the decline. Our golden years were after WW2.

And no, this country does not make anything anymore. You can only import so much. What is it that we actually export? To me it's a question of patriotism. Buy Americna people!

Another thing you said brings me around to this phenomena that no one really talks about. I call it Politically correct warfare.

War is hell. Bad things are going to happen and alot of things are gonna get blown up. You mess with us, you get fucked up, period.

Since when did it become our obligation to rebuild these country's infrastructure? How about building THIS country's infrasrtucture. Lord knows we need it and at the same time it'll put people to work.

:cool:

Giving up on said responsibilities would pretty much be the last quality The United States of Hollywood has left... Our supposed moral high ground.

This country doesn't really have much industry left... What we are at this point is a set for and inspirational feel good film... There are still people from all around that the U.S. stands for something that is good and hopeful... Morally if we bomb the shit out of a country that has provoked us (This is factually the exception to the rule).... You then do have a responsibility to fix it, if for no other reason then there are people living in that country that have nothing to do with the conflict.... Not to mention all the money that war makes private interest.

As for the greater issue of this thread... Some people here have done there homework and know this country is a dead man walking. Financially we are in a....IMPOSSIBLE to solve problem. And for every right or left wing pundit who talks about deficits are ignoring the really issues of money... In the 70's over a few short years we went from #1 loaner to #1 debter... All though I hate pork and frivolous spending we have much greater financial debt and have for over 30 years... We have really only had a surplus in this country once in recent history and that didnt even take social security and un paid promised benefits into the equation which last I check and im sure it has gone up is

55+ TRILLION dollars... 55,000,000,000,000

And that doesn't begin to cover unchecked private industry, and the general outsourcing of a country.

Most will continue to deny that state of this country and run to there nearest demigod that will tell them things are ok and gonna be just fine but that little scare with the financial crisis was simply stalled... It is only a mater of time.. Not if... "You can't convince some people there's a fire even when their hair is burning."

[Neil]

Do we have another arms race on our hands?

Hopefully not because truthfully this country is in such bad finacial shape, we can't afford it.

Military spending is killing this country but some feel that the military budget is off limits when it comes to budget cuts.

I always say, the money is not infinite. We either spend it on this or that. The problem is that the U.S. has been used to having "the best of all worlds", for lack of a better term, for so long and now we presently find ourselves in an economic situation where that it no longer possible.

There are debates in Washington over balancing the budget yet no major public official will put forth a plan on what they would cut. It sounds nice on paper but when it comes down to it no one has the political will to make the hard decisions.

Isn't ironic though that the country we borrow the majority of our money from is the one we might have the next cold war with?

That simple fact ensures that the U.S. won't be nearly as agressive with china as it was with the Soviet Union.

Any thoughts?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_carrier_killer

:cool:

I thought there were a number of anti-missile systems around? Why is this missile not vunerable to them?

[Publius]

Modern warfare is different. Wars are fought in unconventional ways now yet the U.S. is still spending hundreds of billions of dollars on relics from past wars like said aircraft carriers, cold war era Jets, etc.

Do you have any unconventional methods for attacking and taking over a highly militarized island nation? It's not going to look exactly like D-Day, obviously, due to technological advances in conventional warfare, but that kind of operation is much less capable of being achieved through unconventional insurgent-type methods than, say, resisting an occupying force on land.