So, how exactly did Roger and Stephen become friends?

[JDFP]

Between getting up to go to the fridge between my last couple of beers, a sudden thought came to me like an epiphany (or maybe it was the last remnants of my twelve pack talking): How exactly did Stephen and Roger become friends?

If my drunk mind remembers correctly from the beginning of "Dawn" Roger mentions to Peter in the apartment building that he has "some friends" that are getting out and he's been invited to go with them. Yeah, it would be nice to have a SWAT buddy to invite for a trip during the zombie apocalypse -- I agree -- but I'm scratching my drunk head now here in thinking about it...

How is it exactly do you think Stephen and Roger became good enough buddies for Stephen to invite him out in the chopper for their sabbatical away from the world? They don't really seem like the similar type of guys that would become best buddies. Stephen wasn't exactly a "military" person like Roger and Roger wasn't exactly the reserved individual. Maybe they went to high school together? Maybe Roger went to meteorology school before deciding that joining the SWAT team was a wiser career choice under the Carter-administration inflation era of the late 70's? Perhaps Roger played bingo with Frannie and Stephen down at their local parish?

Anyway... just some food for thought...

No doubt, poor Stephen became more reserved and angry at the world when he saw his best friend Roger buddy up with Peter and felt left out of the clique from that point forward. There's "one more for the fire" on something in the film that was, sadly, never truly addressed.

j.p.

[MoonSylver]

IIRC in the novelization of "Dawn" it mentions that Roger & Stephen both hung out in the same bar & became bar buddies.

Who would'a thunk it, right?:rockbrow:

[Doc]

Great thread! I've always wondered that myself. They didn't really seem to interact much, and Roger and Peter became great pals really fast considering that Stephen apparently, knew him longer.

[bassman]

I just always assumed they knew each other through their work. Seems like a common thing for news crews to be in close contact with the police...

And of course Peter and Roger became the best buddies. Stephen had a preggers Fran to deal with. Who wants to be around their friend when his old lady is pregnant? It's a drag, man...

[Trin]

I never really classified them as buddies in the sense that they were tight. I imagine that the helicopter pilot would call the gun toting dude that hangs at the bar a buddy if there were zombies around. And likewise for the swat guy who needed a ride.

@bassman - "who wants to be around their friend when his old lady is pregnant" - damn, you're pegging my life

[BillyRay]

Although there's nothing in the script to back it up, I often thought that Roger knew Fran first (or may have even been related somehow), and became friends with Steven when he and Fran started dating...

[bassman]

Roger was the real father....

[Mr.G]

I believe the correct answer is either slow pitch softball league or bowling team....

[Trin]

Although there's nothing in the script to back it up, I often thought that Roger knew Fran first (or may have even been related somehow), and became friends with Steven when he and Fran started dating...
I think that's an interesting angle. The only problem I have with it is that I would think Roger would be more protective of her if there was that connection. For example, in the scene where Fran makes it clear she wants a gun Roger is completely beside the conversation while Peter is her advocate. Fran never looks to Roger for support on anything.

I still think the connection is Roger and Stephen. But it's an interesting what if.

[Legion2213]

I think they were more "associates" to be honest...Roger would have started calling him "buddy" when he realised that he could get out of dodge in that whirlybird. :D

Seriously though, they do seem unlikely mates...and as others have pointed out, there was more buddy stuff between Roger and Peter within the first few hours of their meeting than we got between Roger and Flyboy in the whole movie (some you could put down to camaradere with them both being SWAT guys and doing all the exiting stuff I suppose). But then you have Stephen and Fran having dinner while Peter stands over his buddies grave looking a bit depressed.

[JDFP]

Hmm... I'm wondering if they all (Peter, Frannie, Roger, Stephen) gave notice at their jobs before leaving. It seems that it would be very unprofessional to leave their jobs without giving notice -- circumstances or not. After everything 'cleared up' they would have a difficult time in explaining their lapse in employment due to walking away from their last job without giving any type of notice. Just highly unprofessional behavior.

I could just imagine the sadness this imposed on Roger and Peter's superiors when they didn't show up for work the next day. I wonder if their boss attempted to contact them: "Hey guys, you're late for work?"

(insert big grin here because I can't find that damn smiles on quick reply).

j.p.

[darth los]

Roger was the real father....

Where's maury when you need him right? :elol:

:cool:

[Yojimbo]

If anyone I happen to know, however tangentially, has a chopper at his disposal when the dead start walking and the world is going to shit, I would be inclined to give him a call and be his friend even if I barely knew him from the neighborhood bar. It would be worth a try.

On the flipside, if I had a helicopter and was going to make a run for it with my pregnant girfriend, I would consider adding to my group a dude who happens to be a SWAT officer since having him as a backup on my crew would would increase our chances of survival.

They could have been really good friends or barely friends at all, but in the end they recognized an opportunity for survival and took it.

Roger's adding Peter to the crew without first consulting Stephen, I agree, must have burned Flyboy's ass. Roger seemed cool with Steve, but I suspect that he took Peter with him because he needed someone there who, by virtue of their common training and shared experience, he knew would have his back.

[krakenslayer]

IIRC in the novelization of "Dawn" it mentions that Roger & Stephen both hung out in the same bar & became bar buddies.

Who would'a thunk it, right?:rockbrow:

Yeah, this is from the novelisation:


"She strained her eyes to see the approaching vehicle. She hoped it was Roger so they could get going. She really didn't know him - just a few things that Steve had told her. They had been drinking buddies at the neighbourhood bar and had become close friends. They had vowed one night, after a few drinks, to stay together if things got heavy, and now, in a more than sober state, had remembered their mutual pledge."

[bassman]

Yeah, this is from the novelisation:

Interesting. Does the book have a bunch of these little anecdotes or only a few? Might have to look out for it...

[DEAD BEAT]

hello late 70's....wern't bath houses all the rage? lmao

Roger looks like he'd be into some kinky shit...and Stephen looks like he'd be 1 of those in the closet gays that would sport some ass less chaps! ;)

[darth los]

Interesting. Does the book have a bunch of these little anecdotes or only a few? Might have to look out for it...

I'm not sure if it's the same thing or similar but you can find the original working script online and it's chock full of details and cool backround information such as this.

:cool:

[bassman]

I'm not sure if it's the same thing or similar but you can find the original working script online and it's chock full of details and cool backround information such as this.


Oh vreally? Thanks for the info. I actually just went through the original Day script a few days ago, so I may need to read the Dawn script now. I wonder if Neil has it on the site. Off to check.

I wanted to read the RE script, but it seems to be missing now...

[DEAD BEAT]

Oh vreally? Thanks for the info. I actually just went through the original Day script a few days ago, so I may need to read the Dawn script now. I wonder if Neil has it on the site. Off to check.

I wanted to read the RE script, but it seems to be missing now...

get the book...same thing! ;)

[bassman]

I was under the impression that the book has little additions from the main author....

Well, I guess Romero would be the "main" author, but you know what i mean. :p

[darth los]

Oh vreally? Thanks for the info. I actually just went through the original Day script a few days ago, so I may need to read the Dawn script now. I wonder if Neil has it on the site. Off to check.

I wanted to read the RE script, but it seems to be missing now...

Just google dawn of the dead original script. It came right up for me.

:cool:

[DEAD BEAT]

I was under the impression that the book has little additions from the main author....

Well, I guess Romero would be the "main" author, but you know what i mean. :p

ive read the original Day script but not Dawn's...wonder if its as deep as the book, the book includes the dog that becomes Fran's pet.

[paranoid101]

Wasn't it in the Blue Oyster Club?

[krakenslayer]

Interesting. Does the book have a bunch of these little anecdotes or only a few? Might have to look out for it...

Yeah, there's a lot of internal monologue and insight into the characters' thought processes that shed a lot more light on their relationships to one another. For example, it really illuminates how strained and awkward the relationship between Steven and Peter is, initially. Peter thinks Steven is a liability and you get the distinct impression that if he were not the only one who could fly the helicopter he would have been left behind at the airfield. Steven deeply resents Peter, he had no idea he would be coming along and feels like Roger took advantage of his generosity by bringing him without forewarning; he considered himself to be the "leader" as he is the chopper pilot and the one who brought everyone together, and does not appreciate being effectively usurped in this position by Peter. It's almost an undercurrent of the Ben/Cooper relationship, but Steven is too nice a guy to let it all spill out. There is a long period of simmering mistrust between the two of them, that only begins to thaw during the mall raid when Steven finds the access shaft and helps them. Of course, this is all in the film, but the book gives so much more insight into the interpersonal relationships that could never be conveyed on screen.

Don't get me wrong, the book is quite weakly written, as novels go, but the extra detail adds a lot to the film when you watch it after reading. Things that characters say and do have whole new meaning and impact.

[DEAD BEAT]

Yeah, there's a lot of internal monologue and insight into the characters' thought processes that shed a lot more light on their relationships to one another. For example, it really illuminates how strained and awkward the relationship between Steven and Peter is, initially. Peter thinks Steven is a liability and you get the distinct impression that if he were not the only one who could fly the helicopter he would have been left behind at the airfield. Steven deeply resents Peter, he had no idea he would be coming along and feels like Roger took advantage of his generosity by bringing him without forewarning; he considered himself to be the "leader" as he is the chopper pilot and the one who brought everyone together, and does not appreciate being effectively usurped in this position by Peter. It's almost an undercurrent of the Ben/Cooper relationship, but Steven is too nice a guy to let it all spill out. There is a long period of simmering mistrust between the two of them, that only begins to thaw during the mall raid when Steven finds the access shaft and helps them. Of course, this is all in the film, but the book gives so much more insight into the interpersonal relationships that could never be conveyed on screen.

Don't get me wrong, the book is quite weakly written, as novels go, but the extra detail adds a lot to the film when you watch it after reading. Things that characters say and do have whole new meaning and impact.

In both cases i think there was a hint of racism there if you ask me cooper was definitly racist towards ben....and stephen appeared a bit on the nazi side as well. only reason they were buds later on because stephen new peter was gonna save his ass from being killed...of course till he pulled that stupid stunt in the elevetor! ;)

[DEAD BEAT]

Wasn't it in the Blue Oyster Club?

like the way you think look @ my earlier post! ;)

[MoonSylver]

Don't get me wrong, the book is quite weakly written, as novels go, but the extra detail adds a lot to the film when you watch it after reading. Things that characters say and do have whole new meaning and impact.

Indeed.:thumbsup:

[SRP76]

I don't think it has to be anything really major. For all we know, they might simply live in the same apartment building. Bumped into each other at the lobby mailbox one afternoon, and started bullshitting. Kind of like what happens in real life.

[MikePizzoff]

Perhaps Fran and Roger once had a fling, before her and Stephen got together! Then, for some odd reason, Roger & Flyboy became buds via Fran.

[Yojimbo]

In both cases i think there was a hint of racism there if you ask me cooper was definitly racist towards ben....and stephen appeared a bit on the nazi side as well. only reason they were buds later on because stephen new peter was gonna save his ass from being killed...of course till he pulled that stupid stunt in the elevetor! ;)
I don't know about the racism angle in either case. Stephen being a bit on the nazi side I might agree with, but that was a matter of him desiring to be in control and not enjoying haveing to relinquish full control to anyone. Race, for me it seems, was not really a factor.

In NOLD I think that the issue wasn't that Ben didn't like Cooper because he was white, or Cooper didn't like Ben because he was black. Instead it had always seemed to me that they were at odds because they were both competing for the same space. Both wanted to be in control, and resented the other for this.

I recall years ago there was a dramatization on two-track tape released I think by Ballantine that acted out in radio drama form the story of NOLD, and I remember being more than pissed that they decided to make race an issue by adding dialogue that had Cooper verbalizing his contempt for Ben for being black. Though I cannot recall the specific dialogue, I thought that adding this to the story arc did a disservice to Romero's original intent which I believe he has stated that the character's conflicts had nothing at all to do with race or racisim.

[rongravy]

I always thought there was an underlying "there's a black man coming onto my turf and taking over" too, in Night and Dawn.
Maybe Stephen thought Peter was gonna get in there and work his mojo on Fran when he wasn't looking.
Then who KNOWS what color the next baby will be?
I think deep down, those were Flyboys fears.
I may have to check out the script online later. Might be some nuggets in there.

[DEAD BEAT]

I always thought there was an underlying "there's a black man coming onto my turf and taking over" too, in Night and Dawn.
Maybe Stephen thought Peter was gonna get in there and work his mojo on Fran when he wasn't looking.
Then who KNOWS what color the next baby will be?
I think deep down, those were Flyboys fears.
I may have to check out the script online later. Might be some nuggets in there.

ha ha! @ least somebody agree's with me and isnt playing blind man! let's call it for what it was folks! ;)
I mean the race angle i picked up from the get go...let's b real you think in Night in that day and age if the zombie take over hadn't happened...i don't see Cooper inviting Ben over for a Turkey dinner....<:0

And Peter was thinkin bout tappin' that ass (fran's) from the word go...y do you think he didn't kill himself! lol

[krakenslayer]

I don't really think race came into it much in Dawn. In Night, sure.

I think, with Stephen, he was more pissed off about his heroic survival fantasy being spoiled by a tougher, more streetwise guy who knew how to handle himself much better, and presented as a more credible leader. If you watch Steven's behaviour closely (and moreso if you read the book), there comes a point where he actually tries to remedy this by impressing Peter and improving his own street cred with their new "leader" (look at the childish satisfaction on his face when he earns his respect after finding the ceiling shaft). There is no sign of disgust or prejudice in his actions at any point. He just want to be respected as a full voting member of the group.

I do think that this is Romero deliberately playing with our expectations though. He sets up a similar situation to the familiar one in Night, but then it ends up playing out totally differently. I guess you could argue that there is some racial element to it, since it's Peter's upringing in a (presumably) tough, black neighbourhood that makes him more of an effective leader in a crisis, but I see no evidence that the colour of his skin had any effect on the way he was treated by Stephen.

[Yojimbo]

Perhaps it's me bring brainwashed by what Romero has said instead of considering what is on the screen, but I just rewatched NOLD 1968 again and I just do not see the racial component at all.

Granted, I was looking for something obvious, so perhaps there is something a bit more subtle than outward epithets or some white-guilt awkwardness (like Lenny Bruce's "How to Talk to Colored People Bit", you know, like: "That Joe Robinson is a heck of a baseball player")

Maybe someone could hip me to exactly what gives them the impression of racially based friction in NOLD because I still am not seeing it.

[Suicycho]

The books also delves a bit into Peters brothers. It talks about how his brother is in jail for robbing a local liquor store that was over charging the customers, a bit ore about his professional ball player brother.

[krakenslayer]

The books also delves a bit into Peters brothers. It talks about how his brother is in jail for robbing a local liquor store that was over charging the customers, a bit ore about his professional ball player brother.

That's right. It's in the extended cut of the movie too; a longer scene of Fran and Peter talking in the chopper.

EDIT: Misread that. It's only the basic info about the robber/ball player that's in the extended cut, not the overcharging stuff.

[Legion2213]

The books also delves a bit into Peters brothers. It talks about how his brother is in jail for robbing a local liquor store that was over charging the customers, a bit ore about his professional ball player brother.

WTF? Why couldn't GAR have him rob the store because...you know, he is just a criminal? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think the Peter/Flyboy problems stemmed from the shooting incident...

Peter is thinking "this tool will get somebody killed" :mad:

Flyboy is thinking "this interloper has no right to bust up my survival party and humiliate me" :mad:

They needed to walk a few miles together to patch that up and earn each others trust/respect. :thumbsup:

[red max]

I don't know how much of the novel's additions are purely the inventions of the author, Susanna Sparrow. I remember there being some stuff about the mall's owner Porter, which seemed completely irrelevant. It was hard to believe this was anything but the author's digression. So if there are some musings about the main characters that could merely be fleshing out the text. I know the novel was approved, but at the risk of getting into Star Trek territory - is it "canon"?

As for the original question, I agree that Stephen and Roger seem unlikely buddies. I'd guess it was just a plot device to unite the disparate characters. Once the movie's in full flow the two guys hardly interact at all, we're given no indication that they have any shared past.

[edit. just seen my profile - Joined 2006, 7 posts. I'm just not making an effort!]

[AcesandEights]

I don't know how much of the novel's additions are purely the inventions of the author, Susanna Sparrow. I remember there being some stuff about the mall's owner Porter, which seemed completely irrelevant. It was hard to believe this was anything but the author's digression. So if there are some musings about the main characters that could merely be fleshing out the text. I know the novel was approved, but at the risk of getting into Star Trek territory - is it "canon"?

True, but to write that novel some of that basic info about how the characters were connected seems necessary, I'd think. Hell, now I want to read the novel just to see the interesting digressions about this mall owner.


[edit. just seen my profile - Joined 2006, 7 posts. I'm just not making an effort!]

Time to get crackin' http://grownupgeek.com/files/images/whip.gif

[MoonSylver]

True, but to write that novel some of that basic info about how the characters were connected seems necessary, I'd think. Hell, now I want to read the novel just to see the interesting digressions about this mall owner.

It's worthy of a read, just for a different take on things. Kind of like watching the Argento cut, or Night '90 vs 68.

[Mike70]

how did roger and stephen meet? easy to explain. it was the 70's, so they most likely had the same coke dealer or they attended the same orgy parties.

[MoonSylver]

how did roger and stephen meet? easy to explain. it was the 70's, so they most likely had the same coke dealer or they attended the same orgy parties.

:lol:

*keys fished out of bowl*
"Hi, I'm Stephen"
"Hi, my name's Roger, which is what I'm about to do"
*zzzzip*
"His name's Peter, he's ok."

:stunned::lol:

[Mike70]

:lol:

*keys fished out of bowl*
"Hi, I'm Stephen"
"Hi, my name's Roger, which is what I'm about to do"
*zzzzip*
"His name's Peter, he's ok."

:stunned::lol:

:lol:

the last line made me laugh out loud.

[MoonSylver]

:lol:

the last line made me laugh out loud.

:thumbsup:

It's no Technicolor Dream Cock, but I do what I can. :lol:

[Wyldwraith]

You guys made me think of something,
It's been bothering me lately, as in a completely unrelated note I'm wading through Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. I say "wade", because about chapter 4-5 of each new book you get saddled with a bunch of detail, massive internal monologue-thoughts and inconsequential dialog between non-relevant characters and a side character that, while becoming important for handling a single critical detail in allowing the heroes to triumph, you are guaranteed not to give a shit about, no matter how horribly they die.

The thing I hadn't put my finger on about what REALLY bugged me though is the realization that there definitely can be such a thing as WAY TOO MUCH internal thought-process displays on the part of side characters. In an already convoluted, highly complex and deeply foreshadowed plotline, frankly it just becomes a pain in the ass.

The sad thing is, I would still recommend the books to anyone without reserve, warts and all. Anyways, back to zombies. I agree that it wasn't racial in either Night or Dawn, and had everything to do with ego/control instead. Cooper got his fat, middle-aged, saddled-with-a-frantic wife-and-dying child ass bent out of shape by the sudden intrusion of a strong-willed, young, physically powerful man into an already tense situation and claustrophobically enclosed space.

In the same way, Stephen got his fantasy of being Fran's Hero of Heroes rained on by the CONSTANT visual confirmation of the fact that the SWAT boys were doing all the heavy lifting.

Gentlemen, be honest. You're involved with a woman deeply enough she's bearing your child. Suddenly, you're thrust into a situation of ongoing, life-threatening danger and begin to take whatever steps you can to ensure the safety of you and your beloved. Things begin to look like they might work out the way you want, but then a pair of competent, powerful, skilled in matters violent and security-related men (both of which are your contemporaries in age, but in MUCH BETTER physical shape) swoop in, save you and your lady's asses, over and over and OVER AGAIN.

Now, raise your hand if you believe that wouldn't have you entertaining murderous thoughts.

::Looks at those with raised hands:: Liars.

It's basic man-nature. In kill-or-be-killed tension, young to slightly middle aged men want to be the Tough Guy Who Clubs The Big Bad Into Submission to protect their lady, and we WANT HER TO SEE US DO IT.

Deprive us of that, and we fall back on anger to deflect feelings of emasculation and the impact of those blows to our egos.

Scratch the surface of any man, and we're all 10 heartbeats away from "Me Tarzan, You Jane" in our deep dark thoughts and the even darker corners of our hearts and guts. Human nature.