How could zombies begin?

[flesheating]

How it will begin- My opinion on how it will begin is straight and simple. There will some sort of chemical involved that, will be either used for a cure for a disease or war, that will be unfinished and accidently released into civilization. When will it happen? Of course...I believe it will happen sometime in the future.

[bassman]

The chemical "cure" thing sounds just like I Am Legend. Maybe it will turn us all CG. :p

I like certain zombie movies, but I don't think they will ever become a reality. It's just entertainment. That's not to say I haven't thought out my survival plans just for kicks. :lol:

[flesheating]

In my opinion you never really know what could happen. But hey, it could be fun.

[Eyebiter]

During the Cold War all types of experiments were done by both the East and West how to take care of the others civilian population in the event of World War III. Both sides researched and manufactured large numbers of chemical weapons including Anthrax, Mustard Gas, Blister Agent, Nerve Gas. There were also many biological weapons developed, weaponizing infectious diseases. While a zombie epidemic seems unlikely the 28 Days Later scenario of a virus making people rabid is very possible.

[flesheating]

That's true. An advanced rabies virus could become a reality.

[DEAD BEAT]

what about a raunchy, sewery egg scented fart into a corpses nose...that would make me jump up and around! ;)

[MoonSylver]

what about a raunchy, sewery egg scented fart into a corpses nose...that would make me jump up and around! ;)

GAH!!! I can't believe you revealed the idea for the script I've been working on! Now I have to start all over!!!

:lol:

[DEAD BEAT]

GAH!!! I can't believe you revealed the idea for the script I've been working on! Now I have to start all over!!!

:lol:

oops! my bad...i meant droppin' wolfe bait on a corpses head! lmao

[blind2d]

I think it would be more pertinent to ask how they could end... but that's just me.
My ideal scenario for a rise of the dead would be a big lightning storm. It's Frankenstein and classic horror, and just cool looking.

[JDFP]

How it could begin?

Close up of Keith Richards sitting in a flat in London:

"What's this bloody stuff? Eh, bet I could get right on buggered mixin' this and this..."

j.p.

[ZombieGrrL]

As much as I love zombies (in a fictional world), I don't think that it's possible for a corpse to ever be reanimated after death.

I'm certainly not a scientist or a Doctor, but I think it's more likely for a living persons mindset to be altered, either by drugs, or be "reprogrammed" somehow, to want to inflict irrational & unemotional violence on a fellow human. It's already been shown that a human being can be hypnotised to trick their mind into not feeling pain, so this type of "zombie" is possible.

[Publius]

I'm certainly not a scientist or a Doctor, but I think it's more likely for a living persons mindset to be altered, either by drugs, or be "reprogrammed" somehow, to want to inflict irrational & unemotional violence on a fellow human. It's already been shown that a human being can be hypnotised to trick their mind into not feeling pain, so this type of "zombie" is possible.

Agree. The 28 Days Later style "zombie" is definitely more realistic than the traditional Romero style. But if we are restricting things to Romero zombies, gotta say I favor a virus or bacteria as the cause. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome so the more intrinsicly complex the cause, the better. Bacteria are living themselves, and open up possibilities for reversing the entropy of death.

[DEAD BEAT]

How it could begin?

Close up of Keith Richards sitting in a flat in London:

"What's this bloody stuff? Eh, bet I could get right on buggered mixin' this and this..."


j.p.

well he did snort his dad...so i'd buy that one!;)

[Mr_Shadow]

Rage Virus like 28 Days Later.

In the movie, it was a virus that turned human beings into mindless killing machines. In real life, we have a series of brain disorders that do the same thing. They were never contagious, of course. Then, Mad Cow Disease came along. It attacks the cow's spinal cord and brain, turning it into a stumbling, mindless attack cow.

And, when humans eat the meat ...

How it can result in zombies:
When Mad Cow gets in humans, they call it Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000788.htm.
Check out the symptoms:

Changes in gait (walking)
Hallucinations
Lack of coordination (for example, stumbling and falling)
Muscle twitching
Myoclonic jerks or seizures
Rapidly developing delirium or dementia
Sure, the disease is rare (though maybe not as rare as we think) http://www.foe.org/factoryfarms/madcowfactsheet.pdf
and the afflicted aren't known to chase after people in murderous mobs. Yet.

But, it proves widespread brain infections of the Rage variety are just a matter of waiting for the right disease to come along.

Chances this could cause a zombie apocalypse:
If the whole sudden, mindless violence idea seems far-fetched, remember that you are just one brain chemical (serotonin) away from turning into a mindless killing machine (they've tested it by putting rats in Deathmatch-style cages and watching them turn on each other). http://http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/265/5180/1875 All it would take is a disease that destroys the brain's ability to absorb that one chemical and suddenly it's a real-world 28 Days Later.

So, imagine such an evolved disease, which we'll call Super Mad Cow (or, Madder Cow) getting a foothold through the food supply. Say this disease spreads through blood-on-blood contact, or saliva-on-blood contact. Now you have a Rage-type virus that can be transmitted with a bite.

[AcesandEights]

Rage Virus like 28 Days Later.

In the movie, it was a virus that turned human beings into mindless killing machines. In real life, we have a series of brain disorders that do the same thing. They were never contagious, of course. Then, Mad Cow Disease came along. It attacks the cow's spinal cord and brain, turning it into a stumbling, mindless attack cow.

And, when humans eat the meat ...

How it can result in zombies:
When Mad Cow gets in humans, they call it Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000788.htm.
Check out the symptoms:

Changes in gait (walking)
Hallucinations
Lack of coordination (for example, stumbling and falling)
Muscle twitching
Myoclonic jerks or seizures
Rapidly developing delirium or dementia
Sure, the disease is rare (though maybe not as rare as we think) http://www.foe.org/factoryfarms/madcowfactsheet.pdf
and the afflicted aren't known to chase after people in murderous mobs. Yet.

But, it proves widespread brain infections of the Rage variety are just a matter of waiting for the right disease to come along.



I've actually read a fair amount about CJD, mostly with regards to how they might be involved in a ghoul population (we're talking Lovecraftian/Mythos sort here). You hit the nail on the head about early onset possibly causing behavioral changes and dementia. I would think a mutated version that targets specific part of the brain to amp up aggression and also increase the number of cases would be needed; new symptom-bearing cases are fairly rare.

That said, it's a horrid, horrid illness as is.

[MikePizzoff]

2-4-5 Trioxin. Duh.

[bassman]

2-4-5 Trioxin. Duh.

Don't forget the acid rain. We all know the characters did. :lol:

[Rancid Carcass]

Rage Virus like 28 Days Later

To be honest, I think if it happened along the lines of a 28 Days style rage virus I'd be pretty disappointed. I mean if I'm going to get caught up in world ending apocalypse I want proper walking corpse type zombies, not some infected human thing - we only get one shot at this so we might as well do it right! :lol:

[Publius]

well he did snort his dad...so i'd buy that one!;)

for a dollar?

[MoonSylver]

well he did snort his dad...so i'd buy that one!;)


for a dollar?

http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/buyfordollar.jpg

[blind2d]

"Bixby!!!" <--shakes fist in Stephen Colbert fashion.

[Mr_Shadow]

As much as I love zombies (in a fictional world), I don't think that it's possible for a corpse to ever be reanimated after death.

Neurogenesis

You know all that conversy out there about stem cell research? Well, the whole thing with stem cells is that they can basically be used to re-generate dead cells. Particularly of interest to zombologists like ourselves is neurogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis,
the method by which they can re-grow dead brain tissue.

You can see where this is going.

How it can result in zombies:
Science can pretty much save you from anything but brain death; they can swap out organs but when the brain turns to mush, you're gone. Right?

Well, not for long. They're already able to re-grow the brains of comatose head trauma patients until they wake up and walk around again.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VKN-4GK1DST-7&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=10e57bbd002805551700b598b9811763
Couple that with the new ability to keep a dead body in a state of suspended animation http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/magazine/11ideas_section4-21.html?_r=1
so that it can be brought back to life later, and soon we'll be able to bring back the dead, as long as we get to them quickly enough.

That sounds great, right? Well, this lab http://www.2000plus.mpg.de/e/90/article/ dedicated to "reanimation research" (yes, that's what they call it) explains how the process of "reanimating" a person creates a problem. It causes the brain to die off from the outside in. The outside being the cortex, the nice part of you that makes humans human. That just leaves the part that controls basic motor function and primitive instincts behind.

You don't need the cortex to survive; all you need is the stem and you'll still be able to mindlessly walk and eat and enjoy Grey's Anatomy. This is how chickens can keep walking around after they've been beheaded (including one case where the chicken lived for 18 months without a head)http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org/story.php.

So, you take a brain dead patient, use these techniques to re-grow the brain stem, and you now have a mindless body shambling around, no thoughts and no personality, nothing but a cloud of base instincts and impulses.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what we like to call a real, live, undead fucking zombie. So there.

Chances this could cause a zombie apocalypse:
Think about it. Under every legal system in the world, all rights and responsibilities are terminated at death. All it takes is someone with resources and a need for a mindless workforce of totally obedient slave labor.

How long until somebody tries this? I'm betting somebody in the world, maybe North Korea, will have a working zombie by Christmas.

[Sammich]

Here is a english dubbed video from a german (or french?) scientist discussing how parasites influence behavior of host insects.

76BnVsaLiR0

With genetic engineering I wonder if something like this could be made to infect humans and create hell on earth.

[MoonSylver]

That sounds great, right? Well, this lab ="http://www.2000plus.mpg.de/e/90/article/"]http://www.2000plus.mpg.de/e/90/article/ dedicated to "reanimation research" (yes, that's what they call it) explains how the process of "reanimating" a person creates a problem. It causes the brain to die off from the outside in. The outside being the cortex, the nice part of you that makes humans human. That just leaves the part that controls basic motor function and primitive instincts behind. .

http://reviewfix.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/reanimator.jpg


So, you take a brain dead patient, use these techniques to re-grow the brain stem, and you now have a mindless body shambling around, no thoughts and no personality, nothing but a cloud of base instincts and impulses.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what we like to call a real, live, undead fucking zombie. So there.
.

Yeah, but do they wanna eat people? :lol:

Good stuff Mr. Shadow.:)

[Mr_Shadow]

Here is a english dubbed video from a german (or french?) scientist discussing how parasites influence behavior of host insects.

76BnVsaLiR0

With genetic engineering I wonder if something like this could be made to infect humans and create hell on earth.

alright here goes....

Brain Parasites

Parasites that turn victims into mindless, zombie-like slaves are fairly common in nature. There's one called toxoplasmosa gondii http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii
that seems to devote its entire existence to being terrifying.

This bug infects rats, but can only breed inside the intestines of a cat. The parasite knows it needs to get the rat inside the cat (yes, I realize this sounds like the beginning of the most fucked-up Dr. Seuss poem ever) so the parasite takes over the rat's freaking brain, and intentionally makes it scurry toward where the cats hang out. The rat is being programmed to get itself eaten, and it doesn't even know.

Of course, those are just rats, right?

How it can result in zombies:
Hey, did we mention that half the human population on Earth is infected with toxoplasmosa, and don't know it? http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=547
Hey, maybe you're one of them. Flip a coin.

Oh, also, they've done studies and shown that the infected see a change in their personality and have a higher chance of going batshit insane. http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2006/01/17/the_return_of_the_puppet_masters.php

Chances this could cause a zombie apocalypse:
Humans and rats aren't all that different; thats why they use them to test our drugs. All it takes is a more evolved version of toxoplasmosa, one that could to do us what it does to the rats. So, imagine if half the world suddenly had no instinct for self-preservation or rational thought. Even less than they do now, I mean.

If you're comforting yourself with the thought that it may take forever for such a parasite to evolve, you're forgetting about all the biological weapons programs around the world, intentionally weaponizing such bugs. You've got to wonder if the lab workers don't carry out their work under the unwitting command of the toxoplasmosa gondii already in their brains. If you don't want to sleep at night, that is.

You may be protesting that technically these people have never been dead and thus don't fit the dictionary definition of "zombies," but we can assure you that the distinction won't matter a whole lot once these groaning hordes are clawing their way through your windows.