Merkel says German multi-cultural society has failed

[darth los]

A very interesting point of view.

Made me think that perhaps this whole multi-culturalism within the borders of a nation is a fairly new experiment and it might not be the way things were intended.

Any thoughts?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101017/wl_afp/germanymuslimreligionimmigration

:cool:

[Legion2213]

I have a rather simplistic view of these things.

If I move to "country x" (especially if I move there as a refugee/assylum seeker) I embrace "country x's" culture, language, customs and mindset as my own. My loyalty should be to my new host nation and not the country I've decided is so shit that I have abandoned it.

Multi-culti was ALWAYS going to fail in my view...an absolute disaster waiting to happen. Those countries that have practiced this have, are and will be reaping the fruits of it for generations to come.

[blind2d]

Are you saying USA is doomed?

[Legion2213]

I have no idea...I am from the UK, I can only comment on the situation and my perception of it from a UK standpoint...but folks have been warning about this kind of social engineering/experiment for years.

I wasn't really aware of the USA practicing MC as we know it over in the UK and Europe. I always thought people who went to the US went there to be Americans and wotnot.

[MoonSylver]

Are you saying USA is doomed?

Isn't it? :rockbrow:

[clanglee]

I wasn't really aware of the USA practicing MC as we know it over in the UK and Europe. I always thought people who went to the US went there to be Americans and wotnot. Well maybe for the most part. . .but there are a LOT of concessions made to our immigrant population. . .Particularly our spanish speaking populace.

[Tricky]

I do tend to agree. If I moved to a middle eastern country or somewhere else very different to the UK, I would adopt their way of life & not try to push my "britishness" on to anyone, at least publicly anyway, behind closed doors people should be allowed to live how they like. The thing is in my opinion its not so much "multiculturalism" that has failed, its more that a large chunk of the muslim population dont want to integrate, and also those who have come from war torn or anarchistic countries like Somalia or Nigeria, or the former eastern bloc that come here and go straight down the criminal route, people trafficking & prostitution rings etc. I dont see any problem with the chinese & Jewish communities who just quietly get on with life, working hard & paying tax, or the Indians, or the Nepalese who are fiercly loyal to Britain, or the Polish who are hard working & generally nice people. Its not so much an argument against foreigners coming to our countries because the right ones are good for us, the west just needs to stop letting everyone in & get picky about who we let in. thats not racist, its just common sense.
I suppose the main question is how are countries like Germany, especially with its history of rounding up "undesirables", going to deal with the problem without looking too harsh & causing uproar around the world? The germans especially will be immediately and unfairly labelled as "Nazis" again the minute they try to expel any immigrants they dont want.

[MinionZombie]

Can't be arsed to read the story, but heard that Merkel had been saying something about it.

Speaking of this multiculturalism thing in general, it's simply a bad idea - why - because it's Social Engineering, and that rarely, if ever, works out in the end.

It has led to a totally un-natural pattern of migration and has generated untold amounts of ill feeling amongst communities, and far from 'getting everyone mixed in like some hippy commune of love and peace' all that has happened is that communities have divided themselves according to colour, or origin. There's a town up north somewhere where it literally divided down the middle - one side is for the natives who are almost entirely white, the other side is for non-indigenous folks who are mostly Middle Eastern/Asian/etc, and neither side dares set foot in the other.

*slow claps* Yeah ... well done to those who thought it'd be a good idea.

Frankly there are plenty of natives in the UK I'd like to see not living here, so immigration is a good thing - but allowed vast quantities of people, with no proper screening process for years or number caps, is just an utterly retarded idea. I think the South Park episode 'goobacks from the future' summed it all up perfectly. If you haven't seen it, go and see it.

Immigration should be a natural thing that isn't actively encouraged by any government or country. It should be properly controlled so that you keep the bad guys out and only allow the good guys in.

And yes, as has been said, if you move to another country you should be responsible and ... you know, "when in Rome" ... if I moved to Germany or some other nation, then I'd be expected to learn the language to get by day-to-day, as well as try and fit in with everyone else, rather than find the nearest fellow Brit and just stay with them talking English the entire time. I'm not saying "all one way" about these things, obviously if you've got a lot of Polish in your area for example (as we do in my area - being that there are so many farms around) then we now have in our small town a Polish food shop that recently opened. That's just fulfilling a market need and it's totally understandable ... the gangs of Polish do tend to stand out, like when they go as a group to get their shopping and are waiting for the bus back to the farm where they live on-site, but they're not going to be able to fully connect with this area - this isn't their home after all. They had to leave their home because there wasn't money or work.

Which brings me onto another aspect - why not seek to make Poland (for example) a stronger economy, so the people there aren't forced to leave their homes and families to go and live and work in some strange land where they'll meet with a fair amount of resistence from the locals (as well as plenty of people who'll be fine with them, yes)? Surely the best idea is to try and make the country - in this example Poland - a stronger economy so that the people can stay with their homes and families? That has always baffled me and continues to do so.

Simply speaking, if you do move to another country - whoever you are and wherever you go - then you must learn the language, obey the laws of the land, and 'do as the Romans do' so-to-speak, and treat your host nation with respect.

There are plenty of people who are doing that, but there are plenty of people who aren't - and of course another problem with poorly controlled and checked immigration is crime. The worst that Europe has to offer entering whichever country and causing havoc. People trafficking other people. Criminal gangs bringing drugs, violence and human trafficking into the host nation.

In short, it has to be something that happens naturally, at a natural pace that everyone can get along with. The die-hard xenophobic racists will never keep up, no matter how glacial the pace, but society at large will and what's more there wouldn't be unsuitable floods of people and cultures coming together like two storms clashing, something that can only lead to problems. This social engineering stuff is utter bollocks, and this forced multiculturalism was always a stupid idea forced on us by people who think along the lines of 'well if you have any concerns about it, then you're a scumbag racist' (and quite often by people who never actually have to witness first hand the impact such policies have).

...

So, in conclusion, you should learn the language of your host nation. You should respect the laws of the land and the local customs. Whoever you are, where ever you are. Governments shouldn't force swift and widespread changes to society upon its people as it only leads to fear, intimidation, suspicion, violence, ill-feeling and segregation - and even crime and other untold horrors. Socities must be allowed to develop and change at their own pace - don't meddle - don't engage in social engineering.

[BillyRay]

Still, when the Germans start talking about this sort of thing, it makes me a little nervous...

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/foozhoo/Hitlerpalyingbanjo.gif

[Legion2213]

Still, when the Germans start talking about this sort of thing, it makes me a little nervous...

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/foozhoo/Hitlerpalyingbanjo.gif

Nah, the current German generation has every right to discuss the future and wellbeing of their nation and anything else that could effect their childrens future.

This is something that raises hackles all over Europe...nations that were once free lovin' let 'em all in types are also having this debate and seeing the rise of anti-immigration political parties (Holland, Sweden etc).

In short, even the most liberal nations are slowly realising what a complete and utter fuck up this is. What was even more fucked up was that anybody raising objections to this several years ago was branded a "racist nazi jackbooter from planet xenophobe". This had the brilliant effect killing any real grown up debates about immigration before they even started.

[shootemindehead]

Are you saying USA is doomed?

The "melting pot" of America is broken in many ways though. Racial, cultural and ethnic tensions are enormous and they always have been. Besides, the original landholders were exterminated wholesale and "their" land taken from them, so it's a rock and a hard place for any one culture to claim a true dominance in the US.

In Britain (and to some extent Ireland) the situation is different. Britain only really had it's first large scale immigration influx in the 50's, after the war and Ireland has only just experienced it in the last few years. In many ways, it has failed terribly. The main reason is that the centuries old social systems, customs, peoples, religions etc have had to try and deal with alien cultures, religions, practices etc in a really short span of time. Such engineering was always going to be on dodgy grounds.

As others have stated, if x moves to y, then you agree to abide by y's standards.

To me, that's the only way that so called "multiculturalism" will work.

Still, I haven't read Merkel's comments yet. but it strikes me as rather brave, considering the fact that the rest of the world throw the holocaust down their faces at every given opportunity.

[Publius]

Still, when the Germans start talking about this sort of thing, it makes me a little nervous...

At least this time they're talking about expecting people to learn to speak German when they come to Germany rather than vice versa. ;)