The emergency budget review.

[Andy]

Time for another political topic, how is everyone else reacting to the budget announced? Personally i think its tough but fair, we all knew it was coming and we all knew it was going to be hard, we were never told otherwise so i personally beleive everyone who is acting suprised is a total idiot.

I also think the conservatives are doing a fantastic job considering:
1. The mess they inherited from labour.
2. They have a pack of hippy liberals messing around in their affairs.

I Find myself in the same position i was in during the general election though, where i find myself defending the conservative to my friends and colleagues and even my girlfriend but i still readilly do and will continue to do so, i still beleive mr cameron is the best prime minister this country has had in my lifetime.

Whats everyone elses opinion?

[Tricky]

I'm in agreement with most of it, although I can understand people being livid when defence & justice are being cut back but we are still paying out billions in foreign aid & EU contributions. A lot of people have no understanding of how much deep shit the UK is in financially, so they are getting all riled up because they fail to understand why they should have to cut back on anything. Its sad for anyone losing their job, but there is a much bigger picture and the government needs to ignore all the wailing & just do what it needs to do to bring our deficit down. I glanced over the forum that UK military personnel use as I was interested in how the defence review was being taken, and some of them are screaming about it being treason and calling for military coups and all sorts, but as much as I am a supporter of the military, in the situation we're in we cant afford to keep a military that is all tooled up for a conventional war against a conventional enemy, when at present we are under no such threat, afghanistan cant invade us, and theres no "world war 2" situation brewing for the time being, so we dont need such a big posturing military. The cuts arent permanent anyway, they just need to mothball all their very expensive toys & lose some personnel numbers for a while, and its not like numbers are being reduced to a level where we couldnt give any invaders a bloody nose.
Im pleased to see the quangos are getting axed, im pleased to see career doleys & disability skivers are going to be put under pressure and im pleased to see the BBC & royal family are getting their budgets cut. Im not so keen on their ideas to send less people to jail, as I think we may see justice not being carried out as it should be, but then again its been like that for a long time under Labour so it maybe wont be much different. I hope that the NHS will be forced to cut its waste, I know its budget has being ringfenced, so I only hope that the money gets diverted into the right places, rather than flashy expensive hospital art projects and middle managers on ridiculous salaries.
Have a read of these site, lays it out in easy to understand terms & shows how much shit we are really in
http://www.debtbombshell.com/

[ProfessorChaos]

whew, i thought this was a discussion of the HPotD budget for a sec and that in our gushing over TWD, we were about to sit on our hands while this site went under!

and thank fuck there's not gonna be even more ads taking up space....

now i'll let you chaps get back to your discussion.:)

[Legion2213]

Lots of liebour scare mongering going on at the moment, we'll just have to see how it pans out over the coming months and years.

Also note that the stupid idiot who caused this entire mess (one Gordon McClunkingfist Brown) has not been seen since he was ejected from power...probably doesn't have the front to show his face in parliament when every single cut we suffer today is down to his terrible mis-management of the healthy ecconomy he inherrited from the last Tory government.

Once again, the Tories have to clean up a liebour mess and be seen as the bad guys/nasty party.

Oh, biggest complaint about the cuts...overseas aid, if we are going to suffer, I don't see why we should be giving money away to foriegners, sorry if that sounds harsh, but is our money and should go to our people.

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

Oh, regarding the limp dems, I'm kind of happy they are involved, they can temper the more wild excesses of Tory cut-mania, and they can also bare some responsibility, thus destroying the arguments of those who will crow about the "evil cult of Thatcher" eating our babies and stuff.

Speaking of Thatcher, I hope she gets well soon.

[Tricky]

A friend of mine on Facebook commented that "I bet everyone who voted for the tories regrets it now", to which another of his friends commented
"It still astonishes me that most of the general public actually believe that the global economic crisis was caused by the Labour party and Gordon Brown. It just goes to show how naive and gullible people in this country are, its absolutely ...frightening.

And here's another small fact, out of all the hundreds of countries affected by this economic crisis the UK is the only one cutting investment, every other country in the western world is doing the complete opposite"

Sorry dude, but how can you invest when theres no money left? bang even more billions on the IMF credit card? these people who all see the tories as "the bastard party" cant seem to realise that there is nothing left and cuts are the only way! If someones business has lots of branches & falls on hard times where it is losing money, then they always close branches to protect the core of the business, and that is exactly what the government are having to do now with UK PLC. Said persons comment further down the page after i commented that we have no money left was

"You say "You can only invest in things you have if you have the money to do so" You obviously don't know how the worlds economy works, money doesn't have to exist in order to be spent, the entire global economy trades on speculation and if ...you play it right you can create money from nothing.
The debt was created so the banks had something to trade with, becuase banks live off debt, except we own the banks that are trading, and now the banks are making a profit they are paying off their own debt and making a profit for us, they were paying off not only their own debt but also the remaining debt of the UK economy, its already targeted to cleared within 10 years which is an incredible turnaround on an investment.
Basically the british government became the worlds biggest investment bank and made a killing by buying up the banks on the cheap. And that plan could only have been thought up by an economic genius that gave this country 10 years of continuous economic growth, an event never seen in the modern day economics of any other country"

Basically the guy wont hear a bad word said about Labour or Gordaon...

[Legion2213]

Point those "it's only evil tories cutting stuff" folks to what is going down in France right now, or the Greek riots a few months back.

These laborites just can't accept that when this country had some cash, Brown and his cronies spent and borrowed like there was no tomorrow, instead of tucking a bit away for a rainy day...well, tomorrow is here and as a nation we are flat fucking broke.

Also, no government wants to gain power and say "thanks for your vote, but we are cutting everything", but some governments understand that they have a responsibility to do these things...as unpleasant as they are.

[Danny]

i found it slightly humorous all my "fuck labour vote tory" mates are now vehemently saying they "didnt vote for these fuckers".

Nobody likes you when you make tough choices, huh? :lol:

[Tricky]

I voted tory & I still stand by my vote! Im sure the tories are well aware of how hated they are going to be because of these cuts, and they will still be hated when the economy has stabilised, then labour will get back in, spunk all the money again, rinse & repeat :rolleyes:
Just watching question time, and people in the audience keep banging on about middlesbrough & how it will collapse because of the cuts, well I know for a fact through the industry I work in (road haulage) that Eddie Stobart is about to massively expand in Teesside, my company has built a huge container loading site at Wilton in Middlesbrough which has millions of pounds worth of business passing through daily, and that the former Corus steel plant (which was the lifeblood of 'boro and closed under labour) is about to re-open with new owners, which means a hell of a lot of jobs in the north east. Private industry is what will turn things around, not people relying on state/government jobs & handouts which have got us into this mire in the first place

[Publius]

I glanced over the forum that UK military personnel use as I was interested in how the defence review was being taken, and some of them are screaming about it being treason and calling for military coups and all sorts, but as much as I am a supporter of the military, in the situation we're in we cant afford to keep a military that is all tooled up for a conventional war against a conventional enemy, when at present we are under no such threat, afghanistan cant invade us, and theres no "world war 2" situation brewing for the time being, so we dont need such a big posturing military.

That was the theory in 1981, too.

P.S. - Argentina's economy is booming right now. :-D

[MinionZombie]

All this "it's doomsday, it's going to be a massacre, and these tory bastards are loving every minute of it" nonsense that certain sections of the political elite, and general public, are banging on about is nothing short of asinine.

If you want someone to blame for this financial mess, look no further than:

1) Gordon Brown
2) Labour
3) A handful of power-mad investment bankers
4) Every single UK citizen who spent or borrowed money they couldn't afford

This notion, peddled by the rabidly left wing, that the Tories (*ahem* don't forget this is a COALITION GOVERNMENT too ... isn't it convenient how that's forgotten? :rockbrow:) are loving all this cutting is - again - asinine. NOBODY wants to cut. Every government and politician of every hue wants to be popular, and they all want to spend money on improving the country, but when you've been left an utter financial mess then you've got to do something about it.

If you - as an individual person - are in a load of debt, what do you do? Do you leave it alone for years and just keep spending away? NO you don't, you fucking numpty. You cut out your wasteful spending, you don't buy something you had your eye on but can't afford, and you look at ways to maximise your earnings and savings. You streamline your lifestyle and hopefully you come out the other hand in good shape so that you can then re-improve your standing.

The sabre-rattling parts of the public sector also need a serious dose of reality. The private sector has, is, and always has, had to roll with the punches of the ever changing wider economy in order to survive. Businesses which don't go under, so why should the public sector be different, especially when there's been an explosion in the pub-sec, but a drop in efficiency and productivity? Useless jobs are useless jobs.

Labour would argue that these people are working. Yes they are, but they're paying taxes, and those taxes pay for the public sector - so that's just a circle of people paying their own salary. That's not wealth creation, nor is it expansion, nor is it useful.

Also interesting is the fact that in the last quarter the private sector have created 350,000 new jobs is never mentioned by the frothy mouthed, tribal members of the left, let alone the mainstream news media - but my beef with BBC News, ITV, Channel 4, and Sky News is a whole other thing, but in short their coverage of any news, particularly political, is half-assed and irresponsible at best, and biased and misrepresentative at worst.

Nobody in the country is going to "like" these cuts - what a stupid question for news anchors to ask - but the reality is, as I'm sure many of the British people realise, is that these cuts are ENTIRELY NECESSARY. If there's a cancer eating away at you, you don't leave it for a few years and then deal with it - you deal with it immediately. The problem is the news media seeks out conflict and division and shouty people for their 'same shit in 15 minutes every 15 minutes' programming, and this just plays into the hands of those who shout the loudest, but who aren't truly representative of the British whole ... and the news media certainly don't give a bollocks about representing the whole and seeking out the truly wide range of opinions that exist in society.

*sigh*

Going off on tangents here, but I'll end on this. Much has been made - by the economically illiterate Shadow Chancellor that is Alan Johnson (seriously, he knows NOTHING, and he actually made light of this fact ... shocking, to be frank), and his cronies - of this budget 'hitting the poorest hardest' ... well sure, if you only look at the welfare state aspect (which counts, in all its scope, for 1/3 of our spending!!!), then the hit will be noticeable ... but the welfare trap has to be dealt with. It's supposed to be a temporary helping hand with a guidance towards aspiration and getting yourself back on your feet - it ISN'T supposed to be a free ride for life, nor is it supposed to be a quicksand trap, nor is it supposed to be a way to buy votes (Labour knows a thing or two about that last thing, that's for sure). However in terms of the percentage of your income, the rich are hit the hardest.

Rant over, *sighs* ... that's let out some frustration ... anyway, when the nation's economy is in a shambles, it MUST be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. To think you can leave a serious problem alone for years, letting it get more vast and dangerous, is nothing short of dangerously asinine.

[Tricky]

That was the theory in 1981, too.

P.S. - Argentina's economy is booming right now. :-D

Ah but we have a rather large garrison on the falklands now as opposed to '81, as well as Navy frigates patrolling the area which are not going to be cut, if the argies attempted to take the falklands now, we would very much be able to defend them without the need to send a task force ;)

[Legion2213]

Ah but we have a rather large garrison on the falklands now as opposed to '81, as well as Navy frigates patrolling the area which are not going to be cut, if the argies attempted to take the falklands now, we would very much be able to defend them without the need to send a task force ;)

The Argies army is also worse now than it was then, they'd get battered again, and there is the small fact the the US owes us big fucking time, they simply could not refuse to provide us with any help neded seeing as our lads are fighting in various locations with them at the moment.

Fighting a conventional "us against the WarPac type of conflict" is just looking more unlikely by the day, even the Rooskies are moving towards a small professional army...for the first time in centuries

[Tricky]

Following on from this, I see the Fire Brigade Union has decided they're going to strike on Bonfire night. Thats really clever of them, and if a single person dies in a fire that night because of them trying to score cheap points then I hope they're very proud of themselves. Its not like the cuts are even going to make them any worse off, they're doing it because their hours are going to be changed a bit, boo-fucking-hoo :rolleyes:
I hope the government are going to be as strong as they were in the 80's and tell the unions to go shove it, they're just upset because the party they bankroll is now in opposition

[SymphonicX]

Not getting involved in this one. The political bear-baiting started with the first post. Just not worth it.

[MinionZombie]

It's interesting to see how "the loony left" are responding to the cuts, jabbering on about 'going back to the 1800s' and other such total bollocks ... what is really stunning though is that hypocritical champagne socialist arse Polly Toynbee.

http://order-order.com/2010/10/26/cuts-causing-commentariat-to-exit-reality-based-community/


Yesterday she claimed “the Tories have a final solution for the poor”. Yes, Polly thinks capping benefits at £26,000 a year is comparable to the genocide of 6 million Jews. :eek:

'Order of the OTT' indeed.

[Tricky]

It makes me laugh how whipped up some people are getting, including friends of mine, and how they cant take any criticism of their beloved Labour party despite the glaring failures of their time in power. Nobody on benefits is going to starve to death, people are just going to have to reign in their spending, stop relying on benefits to fund a certain lifestyle, & become realistic about living within their means. The selfish "me me me" culture of entitlement this country has fallen into needs to stop, its like everyone thinks they are entitled to live middle/upper class lives without having to work hard and achieve it, which is what destroyed the Roman empire in the end. The fact that most of the big UK business leaders, and the IMF, are fully supporting the cuts speaks volumes, and they are far more gifted/educated financial minds than any of the "armchair financial experts" I've seen commenting on news stories online, including myself.

[Publius]

Ah but we have a rather large garrison on the falklands now as opposed to '81, as well as Navy frigates patrolling the area which are not going to be cut, if the argies attempted to take the falklands now, we would very much be able to defend them without the need to send a task force ;)


The Argies army is also worse now than it was then, they'd get battered again

Both true. I wouldn't have used that emoticon if Argentina were a serious threat. The point is really that it's difficult to determine in advance what kind of conventional threats are likely to pop up over the next several years, and it's difficult to quickly build up the capacity to respond to them. The Falklands invasion was in 1982. Few thought that such an occurrence was likely only the previous year, when the government decided to pull the HMS Endurance out of the South Atlantic in the 1981 defence review. What threats could the current UK government be overlooking in the same way today?

[Mike70]

Ah but we have a rather large garrison on the falklands now as opposed to '81, as well as Navy frigates patrolling the area which are not going to be cut, if the argies attempted to take the falklands now, we would very much be able to defend them without the need to send a task force ;)

the two new, much larger aircraft carriers are still going to built right? at least that is how i understand the defense section of these cuts. the type 45 destroyers are going to go ahead too (correct me if i'm wrong). last i checked 3 are completed with 2 in service already with 3 more planned. oh by the way, HMS Daring (a type 45) is a fucking sweet looking ship.

[Tricky]

the two new, much larger aircraft carriers are still going to built right? at least that is how i understand the defense section of these cuts. the type 45 destroyers are going to go ahead too (correct me if i'm wrong). last i checked 3 are completed with 2 in service already with 3 more planned. oh by the way, HMS Daring (a type 45) is a fucking sweet looking ship.

They are being built, however they wont have any jets on them for quite a while as the harrier jump jet is being axed (sad day for my grandad, he worked on the first prototypes) and I think one of the carriers is going to be sold on once its built, the only reason they werent axed before completion was to safeguard the jobs of those working on them. thats not to say they wont have capability, they'll just have helicopter gunships on rather than jets for now. Tornado & the typhoon will still be operational too so its not like we're without airpower to defend the UK if needed. HMS Ark Royal is being sold or scrapped too. The problem with these new carriers is the sheer expense, and Gordon Brown wrote a lot of cheques he knew he'd never have to cash as prime minister. Lots of our MBT's & large artillery pieces are being mothballed too (but will be put in storage rather than scrapped) & the army are being phased out of Germany now. I think we'll be out of Afghan by 2015 too from what I've read!

[MinionZombie]

And the insane thing is it'd cost more money not to build them, than build them and not have any jets to go on them. Such is the preposterous fallout from Labour's 13 years of economic misrule.

[Tricky]

Heres a thing - as UK folks will know, Take That (shitty ballady 90's boy band) have announced a new tour, to which girls all over are desperate for tickets. A girl who is a friend of a friend added me on facebook a while back, neither she or her boyfriend work and have about 4 kids, yet she's spent all morning trying to get tickets which are £60 - £70, and when I clicked on her page her previous updates mention loads of other gigs she goes to (bon jovi, rihanna, shit like that) which also mean hotel stays overnight in various UK cities. All her photos on Facebook are of nights out she has with her mates every weekend, and other status updates mention her boyfriends Xbox and singstar etc. The point is I get out of bed every day to go to work for what is nationally a below average wage, I cant afford to move out of my parents & I cant afford to go to all the gigs & events that I'd like to, I dont live a bad life but I aspire to do better and earn more money for myself to fund the life I want. Yet people like them get to live what appears to be a carefree life with their own house and plenty of cash to spend both on their kids and themselves, funded by the tax that gets cut off my wages every month! Thats why I totally agree that benefits are getting cut & I hope she feels the pinch of it very soon :mad:

[Legion2213]

It's interesting to see how "the loony left" are responding to the cuts, jabbering on about 'going back to the 1800s' and other such total bollocks ... what is really stunning though is that hypocritical champagne socialist arse Polly Toynbee.

http://order-order.com/2010/10/26/cuts-causing-commentariat-to-exit-reality-based-community/

:eek:

'Order of the OTT' indeed.

This would be the same Polly Toynbee who spent the run up to the election urging her readers to vote for the Limp-Dems...

...be careful what you wish for eh, Polly?

[MinionZombie]

The woman is a total arse, and when confronted about it on a BBC Radio Show (I heard the clip via a blog) she fobbed it off in a weak sauce appology as "a slip of the pen" ... eh? A slip of the pen is an unfortunate spelling mistake, say, inserting an "n" into the word "cuts" - but with computers you don't have such things, neither do you have that with newspaper proof-readers and editors, nor with personal good grace and common sense.

But then the rabidly left are so deft and easy at whipping out the hatred of anyone who doesn't agree with them or has different ideas.

Furthermore, the talk of 'going back to Victorian workhouses', or 'Kosovo' (that one from Conservative London Mayor Boris Johnson ... no doubt trying to distract attention from the fact he was thrown out by his wife) or 'social cleansing' ... they never seem to grasp that some bugger working and earning the average wage of £26,000 could never afford in their fucking life a yearly rent of £21,000 (to think that it was more than that before these cuts!). How is that fair, eh?

The rents in London, for example, in the houses that 'will be cleansed of the poor' (poor?! with £21,000 in rent paid for them?!) are surely that price because the owners can charge that much - if they can get it, they'll charge for it. Surely it's a distinct possibility that rents will decrease in accordance with the cut in housing benefit?

It's been suggested that if tennants had to stump up a bit of cash to fill the gap between their rent and their housing benefit, it'd be £10 or £20 a month. Now, that's not a bank breaker surely? If you're a smoker, for example, cut out a couple of packets worth a month and you'll be there and you'll be a smidge healthier. Benefits should be a helping hand up, not a freebie for life - not a trap, not an excuse to do nothing.

This frothy mouthed "omfgodzorz, it's social nazi cleansing, those baby eating tory bastards" stuff is nothing short of the worst kind of asinine.