Election Predictions

[JDFP]

What are your predictions for your state?

I'm in Tennessee, no great big seats up for grab this year here in my home state for Congress -- though I'd happily re-elect Sen. Lamar Alexander and Sen. Bob Corker. Sen. Corker seems to be a decent enough guy with a great voting record and I have nothing but the highest respect possible for Sen. Alexander as being a true American patriot and a hero for private industry (and someone who has worked hard to ensure that I keep my job and our private financial comany stays open even with all the liberals attacks against private servicing for federal student loans).

The next governor here in our state (and I happily voted for) is going to be Gov. Bill Haslam. I'll wager that he'll probably run for a presidential seat one day (wouldn't surprise me knowing him and his family). I could definitely see Bill Haslam running for "higher" office within the next decade.

Republicans will win big over the Democrats this year. I'll be surprised if the voice of reason, Sharron Angle, wins in Nevada though. Harry Reid will find some underhanded way of coming out ahead in that state (as usual) but it will be close enough to where we won't know until the re-count.

This will be a mostly hollow victory for Republicans though. I think we'll re-take the House (not the Senate) but it will only lead to the next two years of being very little to anything being accomplished. On the bright side, anything that Obama wants will probably never see the light of day. On the negative side, anything that the Republicans attempt to pass through Congress will probably be vetoed by the president. Tit for tat.

The next two years will probably see very little being accomplished (less so than what is usually accomplished by politicians, which is never enough). So, even though I am happy to see the Republicans will have a high win rate tonight (hopefully re-taking the House and possibly -- although I doubt -- the Senate) and that Rep. John Boehner will be the new Majority Leader/Speaker, I take very little of it as a great success -- because it will only deter Obama's policies from proceeding with nothing really being pushed through as an accomplishment in turn by House/Senate Republicans who will be vetoed at every presidential turn.

2012 is going to be the "real" election year and hopefully we'll see some highly dramatic changes that year (here's looking at you, Romney!).

j.p.

[Danny]

i'm interested in seeing how the new marijuana proposals go through. If only for the spectacle, because eventually the us governments going to legalize it to make money from taxing it and it always just serves to rile people up in entertaining ways.

-That and the current stuff to lable videos games as 'smut' and have it considered in the same vein as pornography.

[JDFP]

i'm interested in seeing how the new marijuana proposals go through. If only for the spectacle, because eventually the us governments going to legalize it to make money from taxing it and it always just serves to rile people up in entertaining ways.



Just imagine how many people could find gainful employment if marijuana was legalized. That would open up a TON of new job opportunities for people. I'd be all for it.

Hell, I can't say anything to anyone about wanting to "light one up" as I sit back with a twelve pack of beer. I'm not a hypocrite. I'd never touch weed personally as I just have zero interest in it and wouldn't bother, but I love beer and would find a way to obtain it even if it was illegal just as marijuana smokers find their ways to obtain it -- and good for them.

j.p.

[Danny]

honestly my only opinion on weed is people i know who smoke it at worst get stupid when they smoke it, after they are fine, tobacco smokers on the other hand suffer long lasting effects like brown fingers, yellow teeth, greasy skin and shadowy bags under there eyes. thats before you take into account the long term effects like cancer or the drugs hardcore addiction.

and anyone who says tobacco isn't a drug is mad. It's a dependancy forming habit forming "relaxant" which people easily become hooked on and get very angry and rude when they haven't got there fix.

Only difference is one we've been advertised about and seen on every store counter for decades so we've accepted it as kosher to just pay money to burn something with no positive effects.

[clanglee]

and anyone who says tobacco isn't a drug is mad. It's a dependancy forming habit forming "relaxant" which people easily become hooked on and get very angry and rude when they haven't got there fix.

.
No argument from me!! I've been off the cancer sticks for about 2.5 months and I STILL want one.

[JDFP]

Hmm, if the general population of the U.S. is anything like the average posters here at HPotD then it does not bode well for our country.

We have several pages on an asinine topic called: "I just farted and it smells like...?" but can't drum up any discussion on the future of our nation with this election. Fantastic.

I guess some of my "wishful" optimism for a better future just went out the window -- even if I am tickled about the Republicans re-taking the House.

j.p.

[Purge]

Looks like my state will have to put up with that Liberal pipsqueak Deval Patrick for a while longer, and my fellow Constitution Party member Tom Tancredo will come up short.

But on a more positive note.........Rand Paul! Woooooo!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/dvldck/Dimebag_Darrell_by_grimwolge.gif

[JDFP]

But on a more positive note.........Rand Paul! Woooooo!


Couldn't have said it better, Purge. They are predicting the Republicans to gain 65 seats in the House. Some men drink to remember, some to forget. Tonight I'm drinking to celebrate (not that I really need an excuse).

Paul will be a big mover and shaker the next few years. As will our newly elected (here in TN.) governor Bill Haslam. Great things will come for Tennessee and private businesses under his term, I have no doubt.

j.p.

[ProfessorChaos]

Hmm, if the general population of the U.S. is anything like the average posters here at HPotD then it does not bode well for our country.

We have several pages on an asinine topic called: "I just farted and it smells like...?" but can't drum up any discussion on the future of our nation with this election. Fantastic.

I guess some of my "wishful" optimism for a better future just went out the window -- even if I am tickled about the Republicans re-taking the House.

j.p.

while i do concur that the "my farts smell like....(derp)" thread is about the most moronic thread on this site in months, i'm kinda relieved there hasn't been a lot of political talk lately, you know how fast that shit goes south and what happens then.

on a side note, obama's old senate seat is now in possession of the guy with an R behind his name (yeah, kirk, the dipshit who is known for constantly embellishing his military service, something that really doesnt' sit well with me and most veterans). and it looks like the 3rd-party voters ended up helping the D's keep the governor's house...way to go, morons.

[Tricky]

What happened to Obama then? 2 years ago the "hope" and "change" campaign was in full swing, people around the world were worshipping him like he was the second coming! he could walk on water, turn water into wine & cure all the worlds problems, now his popularity has dropped through the floor & he's losing control fast. Even the UK is distancing itself from the US now, hence the UK/France military pact that was signed yesterday (not sure if thats good or bad yet myself, certainly did us no good in 1940). According to a lot of commentators & military types, the so called "special relationship" with the US has been one sided for a long time, and is only ever on US terms.
Amyway, back on point, what has made Obama lose popularity so quickly?

[Publius]

I made my election predictions (http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?17711-2010-U.S.-election) over three weeks ago.

Senate 51 D - 49 R (Democrats retain control)
House 228 R - 207 D (Republicans win control)
Governors 30 R - 20 D (Republicans pick up 6)

I was a little off, but no one else ventured a guess, so I win by default. ;)

Not all the gubernatorial results are final, but I expect I'll be within 1 of the correct tally. I predicted a Republican pick-up of 8 seats for the Senate. They're at 6 now, with a few left undecided. 8 isn't outside the realm of possibility, but 7 or even being stopped at 6 seems more likely. And it looks like I underestimated Republican gains in the House by at least 10-12 seats.

---------- Post added at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 AM ----------



Amyway, back on point, what has made Obama lose popularity so quickly?

Obama was the product of wishful thinking of millions who were just tired of the Bush administration and desperate for something different to believe in. He became all things to all people, and his support crumbled when people got the feeling that he had overpromised and underdelivered. Progressives who supported him as a long-awaited progressive messiah felt betrayed because he was too moderate for their tastes. Centrists who expected him to be a great unifier felt that a lot of his policies were too liberal. He backtracked on a lot of things like transparency and lobbyist access to the White House that made many people conclude he was part of "politics as usual" after all, rather than a chance to end politics as usual. Combine that with a dreadfully slow economic recovery, and voila. The next two years will be interesting to see though, particularly Obama's reaction to a Republican House. Will 2012 be the new 1996?

[Tricky]

Without wanting to turn this into a racist thread (because I'm not), how are the black community voting at the moment? A big thing was made of him being the first black president, and judging by the news broadcasts we got over here during his election campaign & victory, they were all ecstatic that he was in power. Do they feel he has improved their lives? does he still hold the black vote?

[Publius]

Without wanting to turn this into a racist thread (because I'm not), how are the black community voting at the moment? A big thing was made of him being the first black president, and judging by the news broadcasts we got over here during his election campaign & victory, they were all ecstatic that he was in power. Do they feel he has improved their lives? does he still hold the black vote?

Black turnout was down from 2008, as they were 13% of the vote in 2008 but only 10% this time. Those who did vote still voted overwhelmingly Democratic.

[Mike70]

i am just glad that my phone will stop ringing every 5 minutes with some political ad on the other end.

that shit is annoying and not likely to influence the way i vote. election season is enough to make one dislike the 1st amendment.

[DjfunkmasterG]

while i do concur that the "my farts smell like....(derp)" thread is about the most moronic thread on this site in months, i'm kinda relieved there hasn't been a lot of political talk lately, you know how fast that shit goes south and what happens then.

on a side note, obama's old senate seat is now in possession of the guy with an R behind his name (yeah, kirk, the dipshit who is known for constantly embellishing his military service, something that really doesnt' sit well with me and most veterans). and it looks like the 3rd-party voters ended up helping the D's keep the governor's house...way to go, morons.

Outside of ROTC I have never served in any type of military fashion, but cannot understand why anyone would falsify their military record. What does that accomplish? My mother had 5 brothers, all who served, 2 who were on 3 different ships sunk during World War 2, and I know they hated anyone who lied about their military career. If they were alive today I can just imagine what they would be saying... and believe me it isn't pretty

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, it's ridiculous that somebody in this day and age (or at any time in US history) would think that they can get away with embellishing the facts about their military service while running for public office.

according to most exit polls here in IL, most voters viewed neither of our candidates for US senate as trustworthy or honest, so i guess it really was a "lesser of two evils" choice for voters this year. sad state of affairs....

[Danny]

has there ever been a case where neither got a vote in a state? or is it just that theres always gonna be somebody voting for someone out of spite or affiliation regardless of who there voting for?

[AcesandEights]

has there ever been a case where neither got a vote in a state? or is it just that theres always gonna be somebody voting for someone out of spite or affiliation regardless of who there voting for?

When the tank is empty and there is very little in the way of good candidates and most of us are too disenchanted or unmotivated to go on, the American political system runs on spite, you've seen that in enough threads hereabouts, Hellsing :p

[BillyRay]

Alls I know is that these guys better produce Birth Certificates, pronto.

They could all be seekrit mooslims...

[Danny]

When the tank is empty and there is very little in the way of good candidates and most of us are too disenchanted or unmotivated to go on, the American political system runs on spite, you've seen that in enough threads hereabouts, Hellsing :p

Hey that ain't just america, more often than not its a popularity contest, not who actually wants to make there country a better place. england just gets more apathetic and disinterested with its public figures and america is less about a man saying "i have a dream" and more the dog and pony show to see who can hate the "others" more.

[LouCipherr]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e104/LouCipherr/Forum%20Pics1/democracy.jpg

[DubiousComforts]

We have several pages on an asinine topic called: "I just farted and it smells like...?" but can't drum up any discussion on the future of our nation with this election. Fantastic.
Speaking for only myself, what you've posted already doesn't do anything to elicit discussion. About the only thing that anyone can come to an agreement on is that our nation has overwhelming polarized viewpoints.

[darth los]

Will Rogers once said, " I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

You know what? The dems don't know what to do with power when they have it. I don't agree with most rep points but atleast they make principled stands and don't compromise. They will get what they want or nothing will get done. The dems should take a page from that book.

They try to hard to kiss everyone's ass, not to offend. When you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one.

They truly do make me sick.

:cool:

[Publius]

has there ever been a case where neither got a vote in a state? or is it just that theres always gonna be somebody voting for someone out of spite or affiliation regardless of who there voting for?

Nevada has a "none of the above" option on the ballot, but I don't think it has any effect. I.e., if "none of the above" got 97% of the vote, candidate Smith got 2%, and candidate Jones got 1%, the "none of the above" votes would be ignored and Smith would win with a plurality of votes cast for actual candidates. I think it'd be worth a try to adopt a "none of the above" option where if "none of the above" gets the most votes, all candidates on the ballot are disqualified and the parties must put forward new nominees.

[ProfessorChaos]

well, it appears my state is still up in the air about our next governor....brady(R) is behind by like 19k votes, but won't step down to congratulate quinn...however, given how fucked up chicago politics are, there is reason to be suspicious.

also, it's quite telling that my entire state is red with the exceptions of chicago and the metro-east STL area....which incidentally is where you find the largest percentage of losers sucking off the government tit.

[Publius]

also, it's quite telling that my entire state is red with the exceptions of chicago and the metro-east STL area....which incidentally is where you find the largest percentage of losers sucking off the government tit.

Complete coincidence, I'm sure!

[Wyldwraith]

As I said in the other thread. This is the future, no matter what any of us think/want/wish for/believe,
Here's why I KNOW that PEOPLE ARE STUPID,
Republican Activity from 2008-2010 Summed Up: Cock-Block Each and Every Thing the Dems tried to do, and then whine LOUDLY about what they couldn't stop. That isn't the people are stupid part, just politics.
Public reaction for the 2010 Mid-Term Elections, Summed Up: "Gee, the Republicans have been such AWESOME OBSTRUCTIONISTS while the Democrats had majority control of Congress + White House. Going so far as to announce on National Television REPEATEDLY that their Absolute #1 Priority/Thing to Accomplish is ensuring Obama doesn't get re-elected. I know, let's vote enough of them in to give them control of the House and RENDER CONGRESS 100% USELESS!!! for the next two years! That'll SURELY help us with our double-digit unemployment rate, the 8-digit number of Americans whose Unemployment Benefits have run out, and the Highest Home Foreclosure Rate and Small Business Bankruptcy Filing SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION!!

THAT is what proves Good Ole' Rule #1 true once again. Rule #1: (To quote Tommy Lee Jones in Men In Black) "A person can be smart, but PEOPLE are dumb as a box of wet hair."

Yes, yes, I know people will say "But this was just a first step. We'll get the rest of those damned Democrats when the rest of the Representatives/Senators come up for re-election. Then we'll rid ourselves of the Evil Nazi-Obama (tm), and we'll return to the Glory Days under King G. Bush the II's rightful successor to the Autocrat-Monarchy."

We all knows how this dance will go. Obama doesn't have the guts for a real fight, so he'll drag the entire Democrat Party down with him, and we'll get another 8 years of a Neo-Conservative with a Republican Congress of Worshippers, and said Neo-Conservative President will again pander to the Military/Industrial complex, will continue screaming about insidious Enemies of America, and thus justifying broad-reaching legislation to further gut the Constitution, in the proud (gag, heave, vomit) tradition of the Patriot Act. His/her approval will take a nosedive towards the end of his/her first term due to exponentially-increasing unemployment, loss of wage-increases/other benefits for those lucky enough to have a job, and record-breaking numbers of Bankruptcy filings and Mortgage Foreclosures. So, he/she will manufacture an imaginary enemy, who just happens to be an unpopular nation that is very profitable to invade, and then that President and his/her Congressional Sycophants will repeat over and over and over some version of "We must stay the course, and we can't change horses in mid-stream during time of war. People will buy this and re-elect him/her, who will then show their true colors and rule with an iron fist.

At this point the people will realize (again) just how badly they've screwed themselves, so 2 years after the beginning of that President's 2nd term, the people will conclusively vote a ton of Democrats into office and give the Democrats back control of Congress. Unfortunately, this Egomaniac Republican President will totally bypass Congress by use of record-breaking numbers of Executive Signing Statements to essentially write into law whatever they want with no possible legal remedy to stop them until their 2nd term is over.

A weary, battered and economically RAVAGED public will vote a Democratic President back into office to balance the budget, wipe away an inconceivably large deficit, and to reverse the worst and most intrusive invasions of our privacy and abridgement of our freedoms, which this exceptionally talented Democratic President WILL ACTUALLY MANAGE TO DO ALL THAT. Then, with the country back on the right track and everyone's life improving while the rapes of the former Despot-President memories fade, the fools will then crucify the Democrat President who cleaned up the Republican mess for something that has nothing to do with their ability to govern, and thus the cycle will repeat itself.

Can anyone HONESTLY disagree?

If you CAN disagree, it is only because you're in complete denial about the nature of American Citizens and American Politics. We repeat this 16-year or 8-4-8 cycle every time, and NOTHING ever changes except to get worse, and NOTHING CAN CHANGE.

Know what, I'm not even going to pull any punches this time. Facts are facts: Republican Politicians are For Rich People, and screw everyone else to pay for it. Democrats are For the Middle/Working Classes, but have no damned idea how to find the money to pay for all the social reform required to even begin to repair the damage the Republicans did the last time they held power.

So your choices are between Hopelessly Idealistic & Short-sighted, or Malevolently Evil, wealthy, and completely Amoral, with a talent for effective Foreign Policy in every 3rd Presidency or so (Republican), OR, you can just throw your vote away and go Independent to "Make a statement" (which is really just copping out).

It's just the way things are, and always will be, and NOTHING ANY OF US HERE WILL SAY OR DO WILL CHANGE THAT.

[JDFP]

Can anyone HONESTLY disagree?


Yes.

But, as you've surmised, I'm only an evil-incarnate individual with aspirations of world domination and the desire to destroy the rest of humanity as a Conservative with strong GOP leanings. So, to argue the matter on a logical level as opposed to emotional masturbation would really serve no purpose to the rest of your rhetoric, now would it, since I've already been classifed as thus and any arguments I could make would only fall on deaf ears which see no discussion I could put forward as anything but the musings of an "evil-incarnate" individual. It's quite simple really, when all individuals (whether Republican or Democrat, for that matter) are lumped together as fully right or fully wrong based upon their political ideology then we can easily dismiss anything they have to say.

How easy it is to undermine ideologies by casting absolutes against entire groups of people. Goodness Wyld, I generally always value your well articulated responses and thoughts, but this certainly proves that emotions can catch the best of us at times (including me, good sir).

j.p.

---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------




Know what, I'm not even going to pull any punches this time. Facts are facts: Republican Politicians are For Rich People, and screw everyone else to pay for it.

Absolutely. I hate all those poor people. In fact, I'm not a millionaire so I hate myself too. Yep, you've summed it all up in one sentence. Forget all the political ideology/principles/etc. We can dismiss the entire political party/ideology and every single American who follows these principles with this one full-sweep. Well done. How could I have been so completely blinded to think there was more to any of it other than: "I hate all poor people!" for Republicans and "I hate the rich people!" for Democrats?

j.p.

[ProfessorChaos]

i'd like to add that while we're making sweeping generalizations here, the democrats no longer seem to be a party looking out for the working class but more like one who looks out for those not willing to work. as i said earlier, it's why my entire state is red this year with the exception of heavily urban areas with the most citizens on welfare and government aid.

and yeah, wyld, your post earlier about TWD was great, insightful, and well-articulated, but this just sounds like the ramblings of a butt-hurt liberal whiner....

*sweeping generalizations mode "off"

[Wyldwraith]

You missed the ENTIRETY of my point,
*It DOESN'T MATTER* if I'm absolutely wrong, or JDFP is absolutely right, or if anyone else is right or wrong. American politics do not, have not, will not, and CANNOT result in positive change, NO MATTER WHAT WE DO. It's a fact, like gravity. No matter WHAT permutation/mix of politicians you park in Washington, everything either improves (Short-term) then crashes mid/long-term, or just skips improvement entirely and heads straight for Option: Gets worse.

Let's say Obama magically became the GREATEST LEADER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND TOMORROW MORNING. ***It WOULD NOT MATTER***. The EXACT SAME result will occur in two years time whether or not he is the worst of presidents, a mediocre president, or the best of presidents.

Why? Because we are LOCKED INTO a cyclical form of perception-driven government. I HAPPEN to come down on the Dem side, JDFP HAPPENS to come down on the Republican side, but nothing either of us hopes will happen in terms of positive change in America will actually occur. It structurally cannot, as part of a zero-sum game. Should the Republicans create a short term benefit to the country, the Democrats will counterbalance that benefit with a somewhat larger damaging change. Reverse the party names, and the EXACT SAME THING happens.

3rd Edit: I apologize for any resultant offense I've given, but am at this time unable to apologize for how I feel and how I see the world and our country in particular. I have a great deal of respect for this community, and an equal amount of respect and like for many of this community's members. I hope my fellows will be willing to consider these last few exchanges via the lens of Attempting to View These Words From the Inside of My Situation.

'bout all I can ask for. Later all.
Again, why? Because at any one time, 50% of the country is fundamentally convinced that things cannot and will not improve unless the people who scream the things they believe the loudest have all the power. So, no matter WHO HAS THAT POWER 50% of America is busily smashing everything they can lay their hands on in sheer spite that their LOUD PEOPLE aren't in power.

Inject a politician who understands all of this into the D.C political scene, no net benefit. Hell, somehow insert 100%!!! of politicians who understand this into the D.C political scene and STILL, no net benefit? Why, because just as soon as they arrive in D.C they have to set about getting re-elected, meaning that it is irrelevant of what they know to be true, they will do EXACTLY what they feel gives them the best change of re-election, each and every single time. Even if what they must do to achieve that re-election is the single most damaging change to spring on American in the last 100 years.

Doesn't everyone instinctively understand this by now? Politicians have ONE JOB, convincing enough Americans to re-elect them by convincing enough Americans that "This time it will be different baby, just take me back and I promise I won't beat, rape and sodomize you and the children anymore."

Doing that ONE JOB is in FUNDAMENTAL OPPOSITION to doing ANYTHING that results in a net benefit to Americans. In fact, if a politician COULD do something to benefit Americans WITHOUT hurting their chances at re-election, they would STILL willingly choose to do something to harm Americans instead. Why? Because happy content people are not as easily manipulated as beaten down, desperate and fearful people.

NOW do you understand what I'm saying?

---------- Post added at 05:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 AM ----------

Hey,
I realize my last post was perhaps over-intellectualized, so I decided to try a far simpler tack. In the 1770-1780s, in a time when anything more serious than the most minor of flesh wounds resultant from gunshot/mini-ball wounds caused unanasthesized amputation of limbs and/or horrible lingering death-by-gangrene/septicemia, our forefathers went to war with a vastly superior army to create this country, risking these horrible ways to die.

These very framers of our Constitution and our Present Form of Government, ALL OF THEM left behind comments in one form or another to the extent that it would be no more than ONE HUNDRED YEARS before the citizenry would need to tear EVERYTHING of Government out and down by the root, **Exactly as they had displaced the English**.

Stop and consider that a moment. The people who had FAR, FAR MORE to LOSE than ANY OF US, ALL OF THEM tell us from the past that if we did/do not completely gut and restart EVERY FACET of government about every hundred years, "Our descendants shall arrive at a place that shall make English tyranny seem a pleasant diversion."

I ask you, In the Name of SANITY. Who are WE to disregard what THEY knew to be TRUE at the very BEGINNING of our way of life? And, having disregarded their instructions, should we be surprised that we HAVE IN FACT ARRIVED AT THAT NIGHTMARE?

Now, I realize anything I might say at this point will be colored in all your eyes by my previous pro-Democrat assertions, but you tell me, what part of ANY OR ALL of what I JUST said contradicts my LAST post, about why it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for Net Positive/Beneficial Change to result from our current political system?

How's that for a move away from partisan rhetoric and indefensible generalizations?

In fact, I would put it to you that any argument inconsistent with these historical truths is BY DEFINITION an AUTO-FAIL.

As for my partisan leanings, I'm a big enough man to admit I speak from a vested interest in seeing a more pro-Economic Dependants political environment flourish as a jobless, disabled, not-homeless only by the grace of my parents (who are in failing health, with my Mother close to losing her job as a Dental Hygienist in a work environment where those from her office that have been let go have been out of work and unable to find new positions for long enough that ALL OF THEM have run out of Unemployment Benefits. My Stepfather, 30 years older than my 51yr old Mother, is in danger of his pension being slashed by over 50%, has already had the medical insurance he and my mother are critically dependent on via his former General Motors employer had major benefits slashed from it, and seen costs massively increase of late).

We are scraping by IN THE RED every single month, and are not far from bankruptcy and losing our heavily mortgaged home.

Meanwhile, I'm an avowed/admitted Oxycodone addict due to my disability, and my Oxycodone + Muscle Relaxers + Steroid/Numbing Agent Intramuscular Injections + 2 Dr. Office Visits/Month = 600-660$ PER MONTH.

I promise you, should my parents become unable to continue providing that 600-660$ a month, I will acquire it by any and all means up to and including murder, kidnapping and sale of children, whatever I can manage to get that money.

I am, after all, at the end of the day, backed into a corner and forced to remain an addict of one of the most addictive substances on Earth. Which causes unspeakable torment and (at my level of chemical dependency) eventual shock and death after lingering torment very few of you can even comprehend.

THAT is from where I speak. Desperation. And like any desperate and trapped animal, I will do WHATEVER is necessary to get out of the corner I've been trapped in. Morality doesn't even enter into it. Just basic Human Nature.

Now, show of hands. Who thinks I'm not speaking absolute Truth as I know it?

[Publius]

Who are WE to disregard what THEY knew to be TRUE at the very BEGINNING of our way of life?

Well, from what you say it sounds like they were pretty stupid to create a democratic republic based on the consent of the governed, so maybe their advice isn't all that useful.

[Wyldwraith]

Absolutely,
But they were working (I assume) from that old adage "Democracy, the worst form of government ever invented....except for all the others." Still, I feel their conviction that the form of government they themselves designed and implemented would need to be completely torn down and rebuild in every way every hundred years or so still bears strongly on our present situation. We're to the point that politics exist for politicians to get re-elected, and no element of the Three Branches functions as intended any longer.