Bite force ?

[Gemini]

While we pick apart the feasibility of zombies overrunning the military in other threads, another big leap in logic is also prevelant through the genre - the way Zombies appear to bite huge chunks of flesh off the living as if they are soggy pieces of tofu. To my knowledge, the human bite is not strong enough and our teeth are not designed to inflict that kind of damage. Also the zombie is physically less powerful than a living person so why would their bite force increase?

I think we also can entirely dismiss scenes of zombie hordes eviscerating somebody as if they are opening a bag of chips.

Thoughts?

[BillyRay]

I think right there's the difference between what would be scientificly accurate and what makes for entertaining Splatter Cinema, Gemini.

In the original Night, we see very little gore. I suppose that had more to do with budget limitations and the conventions of filmmaking in '68. By Dawn, we have Savini pushing the limits of practical effects, there's a new ratings system in place, and the audiences have seen a lot of bloody footage on the evening news.

It's like the perennial Shamblers vs Runners argument. Running Zombies aren't supported by the scientific facts of rotting tissue and muscle, but they do amp up the acton in a horror film considerably. Same thing with the "Silly Putty" school of gore. It just looks cooler. :D

[FunkyPertwee]

Every film has a different take on the strength and danger of a single walker.

Ben in Night 90 can beat zombie ass with his bare hands and not get bit. In Dawn 04 you can't walk outside without getting mobbed in seconds.

[AcesandEights]

I think right there's the difference between what would be scientificly accurate and what makes for entertaining Splatter Cinema, Gemini.

Too true, and though we've discussed here before how anything from a good tough pair of jeans to a decent quality leather jacket would easily repel most bites, there's always going to be allowances that are made for the sake of the story.

Plus flying raptor zombies > slacks.

[MoonSylver]

I think right there's the difference between what would be scientifically accurate and what makes for entertaining Splatter Cinema, Gemini.

Agreed. I've thought of it in the past with both the bites & particularly how they eviscerate with just the tips of their fingers, but eh...that's another one of those things (to me) that you either accept as a convention of the genre & move on, or no.

Now, if I wanted to attach some pseudo-explanation, then I'd go with the proximity to a meal sends them into a frenzy, giving them a sort of "adrenaline boost". Believable? Probably not. But no more or less so than anything else. :)


Plus flying raptor zombies > slacks.

Hehehe...you just called something "pants". :lol:

[Gemini]

Every film has a different take on the strength and danger of a single walker.

Ben in Night 90 can beat zombie ass with his bare hands and not get bit. In Dawn 04 you can't walk outside without getting mobbed in seconds.

I thought Ben tackling the zombies and taking them out 'wrestling style' on his way back from the gas pump in Night 90 was totally gay. That version starts out very strong, but somehow totally loses me by the end.

[krisvds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOulLJvYdE

[Gemini]

HAHA - nice! Tyson did take a chunk right out. F'in psycho!

[bassman]

The amount of force is determined by what needs to happen in the scene. Simple as that.

Same goes for ripping apart bodies with bare hands.

[Wyldwraith]

As far as the bites go,
Unless you hit bone, there's no reason to believe a human mouth operated by an individual incapable of pain (the cracking/shattering of teeth, exposing nerves etc), couldn't initially bit into, and then by smaller tensing movements of the jaws essentially scissor a mouthful away. Its not much different from picking up a tough steak and biting a tough mouth-sized chunk from it.

On the other hand, there is a documented instance of a man being attacked by a black bear biting a chunk out of its left foreleg, hair and all. He did break several teeth, but it was sufficient to cause the bear to break off the attack.

The eviscerating with fingertips has always irritated me though. I would've rather seen zombies trying to gnaw at the abdomen until they get it open. Once you're through the muscle there IS a lot of soft squishy stuff that could easily be "ripped apart like soggy tofu".

So take it for what you will. It's an interesting area of thought zombie-capabilities-wise.

[AcesandEights]

The amount of force is determined by what needs to happen in the scene. Simple as that.

Same goes for ripping apart bodies with bare hands.

Bassman is right. There's actually a formula for this:

A + B = π
T

Where...
A = number of zombies
B = number of raiders
T = Tension Level of film
Pi = pie fight

[bassman]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/012010/1264591971_brendan_frase_clap.gif

Post of the day...

[shootemindehead]

Actually, the human mouth is quite capable of tearing the softer areas of flesh, such as the cheek or neck area.

What's needed is the determination to do the damage.

The real letdown in zombie movies are the single zombie attacks killing a victim. It's highly doubtful that such a creature would be able to overpower all but the weakest of human beings.

A zombie mob, though, could in theory rip a person apart. But, it would be a hell of a struggle and one that wouldn't be as quick as it is in the films.

[Gemini]

I thought the Dawn '04 swarms were realistic in their biting and tearing, for instance the bloody scene at the back of the bus and the conservative use of flesh-as-silly-putty.

Put my vote down for 'Dawn 04 is F-ing awesome' BTW

[mpokera]

I think the most likely explanation is like many have said, it makes for better viewing onscreen. But if we want to posit an explanation I think you could say that:
The zombie brain is limited to the use of the existing muscles and tendons which after death and/or trauma are obviously not in peak condition which accounts for the slowness and shambling gait. But it also is TOTALLY dedicated to one purpose, finding and consuming living flesh, it will use the existing body completely and with as much of its strength remains, not caring in the slightlest what happens afterwards. Hence we often see zombies hurling themselves against or thru obstacles. We know that the human jaw muscles are quite strong and eminently capable of ripping flesh, steak anyone? so I dont have any problem with a zombie using every bit of strength left in those jaws to rip away chunks. To a lesser extent with the ripping open of the abdomen etc I think the same thing applies, I bet just about anyone could rip a hole in the stomach skin of someone else with only a few tries if they didnt care about pain or tearing in their fingers, nails, etc. and really, really wanted to get in there!

[darth los]

Put my vote down for 'Dawn 04 is F-ing awesome' BTW

We got another one for the cause deej ! :hyper:

:cool:

[DEAD BEAT]

While we pick apart the feasibility of zombies overrunning the military in other threads, another big leap in logic is also prevelant through the genre - the way Zombies appear to bite huge chunks of flesh off the living as if they are soggy pieces of tofu. To my knowledge, the human bite is not strong enough and our teeth are not designed to inflict that kind of damage. Also the zombie is physically less powerful than a living person so why would their bite force increase?

I think we also can entirely dismiss scenes of zombie hordes eviscerating somebody as if they are opening a bag of chips.

Thoughts?

How is it an ant can lift 10 times its own weight? Some things just are what they are! ;)

[bassman]

Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? How does posi-track on a Plymouth work? It just DOES.

Like Magnets...it's just magic.

[blind2d]

"Is it... movie magic?!" - Pikachu
Shut up, you...

[mista_mo]

The strongest human bite recorded measured something like 970 psi. The masseters are strong muscles, possibly the strongest in the body on a pound for pound basis. I think it is pretty feasible for a zombie to tear enormous chunks out of people with their bites.

[Ghost Of War]

I think the most likely explanation is like many have said, it makes for better viewing onscreen. But if we want to posit an explanation I think you could say that:
The zombie brain is limited to the use of the existing muscles and tendons which after death and/or trauma are obviously not in peak condition which accounts for the slowness and shambling gait. But it also is TOTALLY dedicated to one purpose, finding and consuming living flesh, it will use the existing body completely and with as much of its strength remains, not caring in the slightlest what happens afterwards. Hence we often see zombies hurling themselves against or thru obstacles. We know that the human jaw muscles are quite strong and eminently capable of ripping flesh, steak anyone? so I dont have any problem with a zombie using every bit of strength left in those jaws to rip away chunks. To a lesser extent with the ripping open of the abdomen etc I think the same thing applies, I bet just about anyone could rip a hole in the stomach skin of someone else with only a few tries if they didnt care about pain or tearing in their fingers, nails, etc. and really, really wanted to get in there!

Kind of what I was thinking. Unless you're a raging psychopath, there's probably this "instinct" that will stop a normal human from applying enough force to bite through someone's flesh. Zombies don't have this instinct, they just want to eat, nothing else. To a freshly risen ghoul, it's more than likely the same as biting into a sponge cake.

[Legion2213]

We got another one for the cause deej ! :hyper:

:cool:

One of us! :D