Gates: North Korea will pose direct threat to US

[darth los]

O.K. My question is this. The rationalization for the War in Iraq wasn't what sadaam did or is doing it was what he might do.

So what's the holdup here. What's that you say? A million man army you say?

Ah now it's clear. It seems to me that ever since WW2 the U.S. picks on weaker countries whose asses we know we can kick. And even then we haven't won a war since the aforementioned WW 2. And no, Grenada doesn't count.

But you can bet your ass if there were oil fields over there we'd be in like flynn. :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110111/ap_on_re_as/as_us_nkorea

:cool:

[Andy]

The hold up is fear of world war 3.

NK has always been close to china and always will be, they'be been very shady, cagey and outright defiant about restrictions imposed on NK by the west and if it came to the crunch and bombs started dropping, nobody really knows who's side china would be on.

And lets face it.. really.. if theres one country in the whole world that can match america bomb for bomb, tech for tech and even outnumber them man for man.. its china and your goverment is shit scared of them. Thats why no action has been taken against NK yet.

[AcesandEights]

Well, to be fair Ned, I think most nations lean (note my wording) towards engaging in conflict with countries/peoples they feel they hold some form of advantage over or look to hold a detente with an equal or larger adversary till some other form of advantage present itself. Even in WWII we held one hell of an advantage and WWI doesn't even count in my book (too many co-combatants and we mobilized so late, anyway).

Those with advantage continue to seek to press their advantage. No surprise, really.

[darth los]

The hold up is fear of world war 3.

NK has always been close to china and always will be, they'be been very shady, cagey and outright defiant about restrictions imposed on NK by the west and if it came to the crunch and bombs started dropping, nobody really knows who's side china would be on.

And lets face it.. really.. if theres one country in the whole world that can match america bomb for bomb, tech for tech and even outnumber them man for man.. its china and your goverment is shit scared of them. Thats why no action has been taken against NK yet.

Exactly. Although I'd wager they're more worried about china calling in the debt we owe rather than any military confrontations.

There are way easier way they can cripple us without them having to use their military.




Well, to be fair Ned, I think most nations lean (note my wording) towards engaging in conflict with countries/peoples they feel they hold some form of advantage over or look to hold a detente with an equal or larger adversary till some other form of advantage present itself. Even in WWII we held one hell of an advantage and WWI doesn't even count in my book (too many co-combatants and we mobilized so late, anyway).

Those with advantage continue to seek to press their advantage. No surprise, really.

You just defined what a bully is. Nah, no suprise there.

:cool:

[AcesandEights]

You just defined what a bully is. Nah, no suprise there.

:cool:

I thought I was just reminding you of how the world worked :p

I also addressed you as Ned by mistake. Sorry, Darth!!! :o

[Mr. Clean]

The hold up is fear of world war 3.

NK has always been close to china and always will be, they'be been very shady, cagey and outright defiant about restrictions imposed on NK by the west and if it came to the crunch and bombs started dropping, nobody really knows who's side china would be on.


That about sums it up.

[blind2d]

Yep. I suppose it does... But really, I for one am concerned... it seems that things are just getting worse globally these days... international relations, and what have you... If we can't get along, at least with a few countries, we're basically doomed... and this goes for everyone. We need to work together. It's the only way. There's no choice. It's that or the end.

[Mr. Clean]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tell that to political figures with selfish agendas of their own.

[JDFP]

China would be insane to ever go to war with us. For one, they make a fortune off the U.S. -- their economy (where do you think the majority of their exports go?) would be crippled. All it would take would be for the U.S. would do is to slap an embargo on China and then that solves that issue. Oh dear God though -- that means we would have to start making shit again!

Of course, the similar situation happened in WWII. We slapped an embargo on the "Empire of Japan" and it prompted them to attack us. That worked out really well.

j.p.

[Mr. Clean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xXjp4zzVoM


:D

[Publius]

O.K. My question is this. The rationalization for the War in Iraq wasn't what sadaam did or is doing it was what he might do.

The other part of it, legally, is that Iraq had lost a war to us earlier that required them to submit to weapons inspections. When they refused to permit those inspections, it was at their own risk. North Korea is sovereign and has no such obligation.


You just defined what a bully is. Nah, no suprise there.

:cool:

Poor Herr Hitler! Pushed around by a big ol' bully!


:D

LOL.. "I saw on the news that you all have PTSD and are crazy."

[Danny]

China would be insane to ever go to war with us. For one, they make a fortune off the U.S. -- their economy (where do you think the majority of their exports go?) would be crippled. All it would take would be for the U.S. would do is to slap an embargo on China and then that solves that issue. Oh dear God though -- that means we would have to start making shit again!

Of course, the similar situation happened in WWII. We slapped an embargo on the "Empire of Japan" and it prompted them to attack us. That worked out really well.

j.p.

You'd be surprised, chinas more anti america by the day. putting up signs in restaurants saying "NO AMERICAN", moving to ban the english language in media and christmas in general as "barbarian influences". I mean there not the all out "what the fuck are they thinking?" nation like north korea is. But they only seem to focus on climbing to the top of the first world ladder right now and nothing else matters.

Without them though north korea doesnt seem as threatening as saddamn was, the more you learn about the country and kim jong il 'incompetent dictatorship' is all that comes to mind. Like China is a not so friendly country you can at least respect that they think what they do is for the good of there people, and sure to use its slanted and overly controlling- but then look at north korea. jesus, that country is a mess waiting to turn into a bigger one when kim jong il dies.

[Legion2213]

I think you guys need to think deeper on this.

NK and SK aren't seperate countries, people on both sides have families on the other. There is no real will for SK to go to war with NK.

And even if the US and SK launched a massive pre-emptive strike on NK, the death toll of SK civilians would be horrific (several major cities are well within range of NK arty etc)...as for the NK civilian and military death toll, that would be even worse, they are dying by the bucket load as it is, if they stopped getting food aid due to war, millions upon millions would be dead within months.

Oh, and a third world "million man/human wave" type army isn't much use when the DMZ has more land mines than any other place on planet earth. :cool:

[Mr. Clean]

I think you guys need to think deeper on this.

NK and SK aren't seperate countries, people on both sides have families on the other. There is no real will for SK to go to war with NK.

Kim Jong II has no love for SK so it's kinda like an abusive marriage. How many black eyes will SK take before they file the papers?

[Exatreides]

China is not a threat military wise. Well at least not for a few more years. The size of the army has no bearing on it's effectiveness. A well trained army with competent leaders and well trained soldiers can defeat a much larger less trained force. The first gulf war is a good example of this, and a better one would be the six day war. While china has a massive conscript army, destroying their supply lines would make a very hungry army. China is still facing internal strife with Tibet, and the western minority groups.

Don't count out China's neighbor to the north either. The Soviet Sleeping bear is just starting to get its shit together. They will no doubt be in economic conflict with China over resources in the east, and their geopolitical situation isn't very stable either. With a rising power of the right wing.

Of course India is the only stable long term ally in the region. While their still a few decades away from becoming a powerhouse in Asia (large gaps between rich and poor, very poor infrastructure in rural area's.). Their military is decent having to constantly face the threat of war with Pakistan and a not so certain boarder with China.

As for Korea, it's in a dangerous state right now as the old glorious leader prepares to step down or die. When power changes over it stands as a potential flash point. Till then, I see the possibility of conflict as low, but who knows with that crazy bastard.

[EvilNed]

We've seen this before. It's called M.A.D.

Nobody's going to attack anybody, and the victor will be he who can sustain his economy.

That's China, by the way.

[Tricky]

China has a new stealth toy though, not that its operational yet & US military types reckon its years away, but who really knows!
http://pinoytutorial.com/techtorial/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/china-s-j-20-stealth-fighter-aircraft.jpg

[Andy]

China is not a threat military wise. Well at least not for a few more years. The size of the army has no bearing on it's effectiveness. A well trained army with competent leaders and well trained soldiers can defeat a much larger less trained force. The first gulf war is a good example of this, and a better one would be the six day war. While china has a massive conscript army, destroying their supply lines would make a very hungry army. China is still facing internal strife with Tibet, and the western minority groups.

Don't count out China's neighbor to the north either. The Soviet Sleeping bear is just starting to get its shit together. They will no doubt be in economic conflict with China over resources in the east, and their geopolitical situation isn't very stable either. With a rising power of the right wing.

Of course India is the only stable long term ally in the region. While their still a few decades away from becoming a powerhouse in Asia (large gaps between rich and poor, very poor infrastructure in rural area's.). Their military is decent having to constantly face the threat of war with Pakistan and a not so certain boarder with China.

As for Korea, it's in a dangerous state right now as the old glorious leader prepares to step down or die. When power changes over it stands as a potential flash point. Till then, I see the possibility of conflict as low, but who knows with that crazy bastard.

China's actually has one of the most advanced millitaries in the world, as for strict and well trained? nobody is stricter lol

If world war 3 kicked off over this, it would truely be east v west, america declares war on NK.. china gets involved, if china gets involved then russia will (not quite as passive as everyone thinks, russia has shown alot of aggression aimed at the west recently. either india or pakistan would also join up, you can also garuantee most of the middle east would jump in too, american is hated out there for some bizarre reason. In the western corner you would have america and europe. and thats about it.. the UK is hardly the millitary power we once where so we would just band in with european or american forces.

In the event of such a war as a westerner myself, id be preying for the west to win, but as a realist, i would have a betting slip with eastern forces written on it tucked in my pocket.

[Legion2213]

If WWIII kicked off, there is only one power with truly global reach and the ability to project it's forces to any corner of the planet.

Russia is in a bit of a rut (but still nothing to be sniffed at), and China is nowhere near as sophisticated as some seem to think (The Chinese military is set up to fight local conflicts, not global conflicts). Their navy would be hunted down within hours of setting out to sea, their airpower limited to short range stuff, their land army limited to local areas due to geograophy, they have no real heavy lift capability or long range bombers.

China is advancing and growing, but any ideas about parity or matching the might of the US is just fantasy at the moment. :)

[mista_mo]

B-but China has millions of soldiers...and no way to get them abroad. War is about logistics, and China simply doesn't have the capacity to support its massive army outside of China itself. The American navy is a very frightening thing, and their fleet of carriers allows them to go pretty much wherever the hell they want, and assert early air superiority. China doesn't have shit on the U.S.

[Mr. Clean]

When did nukes leave the equation?

[blind2d]

We're not talking about nukes here! We're talking about WAR!

[Mr. Clean]

I got 5 whole USDs that say alot of damn nuclear warheads would start flying around the moment one side felt they were not doing so well. :p

[mista_mo]

Can best Korea nukes even reach America?

[Exatreides]

Exactly, China is currently a very powerful regional military. However their whole economy could very well burst.
They just build towns and houses for no one.
http://blogs.worldbank.org/transport/rise-of-the-chinese-ghost-town

Or just as easily overtake everyone.

Russia...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNl7u_ckbHU

[Mr. Clean]

Your video reminded me that there ARE more important things to do than think about how shitty the world can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeTWBgBylrs&has_verified=1

May this video brighten someone's day :)

EDIT: Click the link at your own discretion and no bitching!

[Publius]

Can best Korea nukes even reach America?

Not unless delivered covertly. Their missiles don't have enough range. They're pretty close to being able to hit Alaska, though, and are working on orbital capability.

[Tricky]

I heard recently that the U.S.'s old adversary Vietnam has offered up its naval bases for use in case they need to deal with China, how times change eh!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/vietnam/8116192/Vietnam-offers-navy-base-to-foil-China.html

[brer]

I think the best Korea aggressiveness is mostly show. If they used a nuke in anger or invaded the south, they would be ended as a country in rapid order.

China does not have DPRK's back anymore. No hordes of chinamen are going to try to repel foreign invaders. China is in it for the long haul, they are not going to sacrifice their already winning position as an up and coming world power for a crazy man and a third world country. China can afford to wait till they see a point when it gets to pick up all the pieces with little to no cost.

Russia? What's in it for them getting involved in a conflict between the DPRK and the west? A lotta downside and not much upside. I see them sitting this one out.

DPRK will not start up WWIII. They are not worth it and all the major players have acknowledged this already.

I can see the PRC and the US along with the local powers doing their best to keep this situation from blowing up into war, or failing that, entering into joint military operations to keep the DPRK from upsetting the status quo.

[rongravy]

These are the guys who saw off chair legs to make you look like you're shorter than them. Will they be the start of WW3? That's to be seen, but they are working on getting thumped hard. I feel for the people there, their leader is batshit crazy. He will wipe them all out before he gives up the goat. Fucking peacock assholes trying to ruin it all...
Why?